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Steam: nonsense review-bombing strikes WH1 & WH2 ~ honest reaction

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  • seamonkeymadness#6162seamonkeymadness#6162 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,476
    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759
    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,371
    Illustrations? Oh yeah I saw the Da Vinci illustration of a 'helicopter'.

    All things point to it being a flamethrower of its tims.

    They operate on CA's website, if they start acting up it will reflect on CA, especially if they don't do anything about it. I've seen people have a hissy fit because they think the mods are part of a CA conspiracy.

    Not as much as community managers.


    "So you want me dead based on a differing opinion? So tollerant....... " comment #66

    The user Eric obviously had someone say something along the lines of - I want you dead. The question is.. can you find that comment? If you can't, what does that tell you? Also note Eric always uses the quote option, however while directly replying to someone he doesn't use it.


    Read the comment above his.

    Erick: It's pretty simple. If given a choice women choose to put their children in a dumpster. #57

    Eastarget: quoted Eric and replied: certainly if you were the child in question #65

    Erick: So you want me dead based on a differing opinion? So tollerant....... #66

    Mystery solved. Not only that, Erick is one of the 'bad guys' there. Oh irony.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    edited September 2018
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    All things point to it being a flamethrower of its tims.

    Right, so just so I'm straight you believe that the Byzantine army had a flamethrower that could be used in a similar way to those used in WW1? That's cute.

    Not as much as community managers.

    Ever so slightly subjective. The remark by Ella didn't even register with me.

    Mystery solved. Not only that, Erick is one of the 'bad guys' there. Oh irony.

    Yes it was a dumb conversation, but if you don't see any rules broken, who did Ella ban? Why did Ella ban them?
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,371

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    That was a response to OP, that is community of Total War: Rome 2. And then CA_Ella double down and made things even worse.

    You may call them trolls, grumkins or redcaps. Those are passionate people and their opinions mean as much as yours and maybe, just maybe even as much as mine. Read thread in question before you condemn people.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    That was a response to OP, that is community of Total War: Rome 2. And then CA_Ella double down and made things even worse.

    You may call them trolls, grumkins or redcaps. Those are passionate people and their opinions mean as much as yours and maybe, just maybe even as much as mine. Read thread in question before you condemn people.
    Uhh no, the OP wasn't the entirety of the Rome 2 community, that's not how making threads works.

    They are by definition trolls. They're welcome to their opinion, but they got treated in the manner their actions demanded. Customer service folk shouldn't take abuse and respond nicely. What Ella said was unremarkable, and even if you take what she said out of context as some folk insist on doing this response is a vast overeaction. It's just a case of people desperately seeking a reason to be upset choosing a reason to be upset. Nothing more.

    Your opinion means more than mine, hahahahaha, that was a good one, that made me laugh. Keep personal remarks like that out of your comments :).
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,371
    Right, so just so I'm straight you believe that the Byzantine army had a flamethrower that could be used in a similar way to those used in WW1? That's cute.

    I don't know what they have used in their concoction. I assume range was shorter.

    Ever so slightly subjective. The remark by Ella didn't even register with me.

    There can't be comparison drawn between unpaid volunteer moderator and CA's staffer. It has imprinted well into my mind though.

    Yes it was a dumb conversation, but if you don't see any rules broken, who did Ella ban? Why did Ella ban them?

    Technically they have broken steam forum rules and guidelines.Was it over the top? Far from it. But there were some really mean spirited posts, just as the exchange between Erick and Eastarget shows, Why CA_Ella decided to post what was posted? CA_Ella wanted to make a statement. I think it was politically charged jab. Which is confirmed by later addition to the comment.

  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    I don't know what they have used in their concoction. I assume range was shorter.

    No, it didn't exist. The Byzantines did not have handheld flamethrowers, are you being serious?

    There can't be comparison drawn between unpaid volunteer moderator and CA's staffer. It has imprinted well into my mind though.

    Political volunteers behaviour reflect on the political party, people who volunteer in museums represent that museum, voluntary police officers represent the police, you're argument falls flat.

    Technically they have broken steam forum rules and guidelines.Was it over the top? Far from it. But there were some really mean spirited posts, just as the exchange between Erick and Eastarget shows, Why CA_Ella decided to post what was posted? CA_Ella wanted to make a statement. I think it was politically charged jab. Which is confirmed by later addition to the comment.

    Who did? Looking at the rules, who deserved to get banned? It's obvious if people were banned then whatever they said would have been removed, that's basic. Oh it's so political, or she's mildly surprised by the uproar.
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,371

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    That was a response to OP, that is community of Total War: Rome 2. And then CA_Ella double down and made things even worse.

    You may call them trolls, grumkins or redcaps. Those are passionate people and their opinions mean as much as yours and maybe, just maybe even as much as mine. Read thread in question before you condemn people.
    Uhh no, the OP wasn't the entirety of the Rome 2 community, that's not how making threads works.

    They are by definition trolls. They're welcome to their opinion, but they got treated in the manner their actions demanded. Customer service folk shouldn't take abuse and respond nicely. What Ella said was unremarkable, and even if you take what she said out of context as some folk insist on doing this response is a vast overeaction. It's just a case of people desperately seeking a reason to be upset choosing a reason to be upset. Nothing more.

    Your opinion means more than mine, hahahahaha, that was a good one, that made me laugh. Keep personal remarks like that out of your comments :).
    When community members ask general questions then answers they receive from company representatives apply to all concerned. In this case those who have issue with female generals.

    They are not trolls. If customer service folk can't respond nicely then they should not respond at all. It wasn't unremarkable, and upgrade to that comment was remarkably vile.

    It was a joke. I'm glad it made you laugh.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    That was a response to OP, that is community of Total War: Rome 2. And then CA_Ella double down and made things even worse.

    You may call them trolls, grumkins or redcaps. Those are passionate people and their opinions mean as much as yours and maybe, just maybe even as much as mine. Read thread in question before you condemn people.
    Uhh no, the OP wasn't the entirety of the Rome 2 community, that's not how making threads works.

    They are by definition trolls. They're welcome to their opinion, but they got treated in the manner their actions demanded. Customer service folk shouldn't take abuse and respond nicely. What Ella said was unremarkable, and even if you take what she said out of context as some folk insist on doing this response is a vast overeaction. It's just a case of people desperately seeking a reason to be upset choosing a reason to be upset. Nothing more.

    Your opinion means more than mine, hahahahaha, that was a good one, that made me laugh. Keep personal remarks like that out of your comments :).
    When community members ask general questions then answers they receive from company representatives apply to all concerned. In this case those who have issue with female generals.

    They are not trolls. If customer service folk can't respond nicely then they should not respond at all. It wasn't unremarkable, and upgrade to that comment was remarkably vile.

    It was a joke. I'm glad it made you laugh.
    All concerned were in this case the trolls in that thread. Even if you take what she said out of context as some folk insist on doing this response is a vast overeaction. It's just a case of people desperately seeking a reason to be upset choosing a reason to be upset. Nothing more.

    Now because a moderator reprimanded a bunch of abusive trolls there's been talk of violence against her for it. It's despicable behaviour.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Nyxilis#3646Nyxilis#3646 Registered Users Posts: 7,726
    Soon as someone starts saying, "I'm fine with weapon, territory, and unit inaccuracies" but then say "But that female one no can do" the ground to stand on just entirely disintegrates. You either want accuracy or you don't. You don't get to have your cake and eat it to. It just shows the blatant twisted logic it takes to be on that side.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    So, are people now getting offended on behalf of CA's PR and marketing department? I would say let them handle it, they're the ones getting paid for it after all.

    Also, I'm flabbergasted at the idea of some people here that company staff members apparently have to take abuse without question. Try going into a department store or restaurant, heap abuse on the staff and see how quickly you'll get escorted out and banned from the premises. See, it's in the interest of especially the community manager to keep things smooth and that also means getting rid of unabashedly disruptive elements. You think Ella's pretty reasonable response was "bad PR"? Do you know what would be actually bad PR? Letting the Daily Stormer crowd run rampant on company managed forums because, get this, the Daily Stormer crowd is mighty unpopular with quite a bit of the playerbase (and the population at large) and CA allowing these guys to spout their ideology unopposed would drive customers away quickly. Would you like to frequent a restaurant where some guy is allowed to daily shout his vile worldview at the top of his lungs and abuse the people around him? I don't think so.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437
    edited September 2018

    The issue is not female generals. That was 6 months ago. This isn't about female generals or "historical accuracy" this is in nature a fake, invented outrage. At best it's a vast overreaction to a moderator telling a group of abusive trolls to -if it upsets them that much- to mod the game or don't play. She said nothing out of the ordinary yet is receiving death threats over it. It's utterly pathetic.

    If you played multiplayer games you can't have not ran into other people wishing you and your whole family dead while they rage at you for something.It hardly something i would take seriously also these idiots who are doing this are just a small part of the people who are annoyed/upset over this.

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • seamonkeymadness#6162seamonkeymadness#6162 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,476

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    Well, if thats true then I agree with you.

    I took my info from the two videos I mentioned above.

  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759

    The issue is not female generals. That was 6 months ago. This isn't about female generals or "historical accuracy" this is in nature a fake, invented outrage. At best it's a vast overreaction to a moderator telling a group of abusive trolls to -if it upsets them that much- to mod the game or don't play. She said nothing out of the ordinary yet is receiving death threats over it. It's utterly pathetic.

    If you played multiplayer games you can't have not ran into other people wishing you and your whole family dead while they rage at you for something.It hardly something i would take seriously also these idiots who are doing this are just a small part of the people who are annoyed/upset over this.
    Why are you trying to downplay people wishing extreme violence on her for it?

    Why would anyone outside of the group of trolls be upset?
    karge068 said:

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    Well, if thats true then I agree with you.

    I took my info from the two videos I mentioned above.

    There's a link here somewhere. The way people spoke of it I thought it was an announcement, but nope, it was being falsely portrayed for obvious reasons.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    The issue is not female generals. That was 6 months ago. This isn't about female generals or "historical accuracy" this is in nature a fake, invented outrage. At best it's a vast overreaction to a moderator telling a group of abusive trolls to -if it upsets them that much- to mod the game or don't play. She said nothing out of the ordinary yet is receiving death threats over it. It's utterly pathetic.

    If you played multiplayer games you can't have not ran into other people wishing you and your whole family dead while they rage at you for something.It hardly something i would take seriously also these idiots who are doing this are just a small part of the people who are annoyed/upset over this.
    Why are you trying to downplay people wishing extreme violence on her for it?

    Why would anyone outside of the group of trolls be upset?
    karge068 said:

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    Well, if thats true then I agree with you.

    I took my info from the two videos I mentioned above.

    There's a link here somewhere. The way people spoke of it I thought it was an announcement, but nope, it was being falsely portrayed for obvious reasons.
    You can clearly see it had a backlash which went outside the initial group of so called trolls

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    The issue is not female generals. That was 6 months ago. This isn't about female generals or "historical accuracy" this is in nature a fake, invented outrage. At best it's a vast overreaction to a moderator telling a group of abusive trolls to -if it upsets them that much- to mod the game or don't play. She said nothing out of the ordinary yet is receiving death threats over it. It's utterly pathetic.

    If you played multiplayer games you can't have not ran into other people wishing you and your whole family dead while they rage at you for something.It hardly something i would take seriously also these idiots who are doing this are just a small part of the people who are annoyed/upset over this.
    Why are you trying to downplay people wishing extreme violence on her for it?

    Why would anyone outside of the group of trolls be upset?
    karge068 said:

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    Well, if thats true then I agree with you.

    I took my info from the two videos I mentioned above.

    There's a link here somewhere. The way people spoke of it I thought it was an announcement, but nope, it was being falsely portrayed for obvious reasons.
    You can clearly see it had a backlash which went outside the initial group of so called trolls
    Yeah, the greater Daily Stormer crowd.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437

    The issue is not female generals. That was 6 months ago. This isn't about female generals or "historical accuracy" this is in nature a fake, invented outrage. At best it's a vast overreaction to a moderator telling a group of abusive trolls to -if it upsets them that much- to mod the game or don't play. She said nothing out of the ordinary yet is receiving death threats over it. It's utterly pathetic.

    If you played multiplayer games you can't have not ran into other people wishing you and your whole family dead while they rage at you for something.It hardly something i would take seriously also these idiots who are doing this are just a small part of the people who are annoyed/upset over this.
    Why are you trying to downplay people wishing extreme violence on her for it?

    Why would anyone outside of the group of trolls be upset?
    karge068 said:

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    Well, if thats true then I agree with you.

    I took my info from the two videos I mentioned above.

    There's a link here somewhere. The way people spoke of it I thought it was an announcement, but nope, it was being falsely portrayed for obvious reasons.
    You can clearly see it had a backlash which went outside the initial group of so called trolls
    Yeah, the greater Daily Stormer crowd.
    I don't even know whom this Daily Stormer crowd is.

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759
    One of those extremist sites which apparently did something on this. I think they aren't even worthy of us mentioning them by name myself.

    The backlash went outside the crowd because the people who were upset at the false claims female spawn rate was increased jumped on it as an excuse for their outrage. In a demonstration of how fake their outrage is the lie has been made that Ella said this to everyone, misleading many people.

    This is purely fake outrage. It's not CA's or any individual CA employees fault.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    If I were CA I'd lock the Steam forums and just wait for the manufactured anger to burn itself out. Just like the Red Shell issue I find it slightly irritating that staff are probably dealing with this rather than cracking on with WH2 DLC.
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,371

    karge068 said:

    To be fair, a lot of people were upset that they were told to "mod it out or dont play the game if they didnt like it" by Ella.

    This point was made in videos by LegendOfTotalWar and Darren from Republic of Play.

    Telling people to mod or not play the game is not great marketing - if they were offering a refund with this comment I think most people would be fine with it.

    The correct response would have been the explanation they subsequently put on twitter.

    Just to be clear: I dont care about female generals as they stand in the game and I didnt post a negative review and havent commented about this anywhere else.

    It sounds like some horrific things were said which is never OK.

    I just think the point of annoyance seems to be overlooked by this thread and by CA, who havent addressed Ella's comment as far as I can see

    Anyway, check out either of the above videos for a more coherent stab at this.

    That wasn't the response though. That was the response to a group of trolls.

    Sure, if you take the comment completely out of context it sounds bad, but even then this is a vast overreaction. In context there's simply no basis for the reaction.
    That was a response to OP, that is community of Total War: Rome 2. And then CA_Ella double down and made things even worse.

    You may call them trolls, grumkins or redcaps. Those are passionate people and their opinions mean as much as yours and maybe, just maybe even as much as mine. Read thread in question before you condemn people.
    Uhh no, the OP wasn't the entirety of the Rome 2 community, that's not how making threads works.

    They are by definition trolls. They're welcome to their opinion, but they got treated in the manner their actions demanded. Customer service folk shouldn't take abuse and respond nicely. What Ella said was unremarkable, and even if you take what she said out of context as some folk insist on doing this response is a vast overeaction. It's just a case of people desperately seeking a reason to be upset choosing a reason to be upset. Nothing more.

    Your opinion means more than mine, hahahahaha, that was a good one, that made me laugh. Keep personal remarks like that out of your comments :).
    When community members ask general questions then answers they receive from company representatives apply to all concerned. In this case those who have issue with female generals.

    They are not trolls. If customer service folk can't respond nicely then they should not respond at all. It wasn't unremarkable, and upgrade to that comment was remarkably vile.

    It was a joke. I'm glad it made you laugh.
    All concerned were in this case the trolls in that thread. Even if you take what she said out of context as some folk insist on doing this response is a vast overeaction. It's just a case of people desperately seeking a reason to be upset choosing a reason to be upset. Nothing more.

    Now because a moderator reprimanded a bunch of abusive trolls there's been talk of violence against her for it. It's despicable behaviour.
    That is not true at all. This argumentation does not withstand critique after one glance at thread. Again, I encourage you, again, to read the original thread. Nothing is being taken out of context. It was a politically charged jab that later evolved into full political statement.

    So, are people now getting offended on behalf of CA's PR and marketing department? I would say let them handle it, they're the ones getting paid for it after all.

    Also, I'm flabbergasted at the idea of some people here that company staff members apparently have to take abuse without question. Try going into a department store or restaurant, heap abuse on the staff and see how quickly you'll get escorted out and banned from the premises. See, it's in the interest of especially the community manager to keep things smooth and that also means getting rid of unabashedly disruptive elements. You think Ella's pretty reasonable response was "bad PR"? Do you know what would be actually bad PR? Letting the Daily Stormer crowd run rampant on company managed forums because, get this, the Daily Stormer crowd is mighty unpopular with quite a bit of the playerbase (and the population at large) and CA allowing these guys to spout their ideology unopposed would drive customers away quickly. Would you like to frequent a restaurant where some guy is allowed to daily shout his vile worldview at the top of his lungs and abuse the people around him? I don't think so.

    I'm jabberslythed at the idea of some people here thinking that talking back is an equivalent of escorting someone away. That is what warnings/bans/locked threads are for.

    Also, again, I must repeat: no abuse was aimed at CA_Ella in the original thread. Nothing about CA_Ella's response is reasonable.

    Daily Stormer was not the first one who came up with an article on the subject. It was One Angry Gamer, then both Arch Warhammer and Daily Stormer followed afterwards. I understand, it is easier to try to deflect the issue by claiming 'it is all about them Stormer troll baddies' but it is not the case in any way, shape or form.

    I would like not to frequent such restaurant. But I would not like even more to see staffers talking back to customers.
    Nyxilis said:

    Soon as someone starts saying, "I'm fine with weapon, territory, and unit inaccuracies" but then say "But that female one no can do" the ground to stand on just entirely disintegrates. You either want accuracy or you don't. You don't get to have your cake and eat it to. It just shows the blatant twisted logic it takes to be on that side.

    There are degrees of accuracy.


    No, it didn't exist. The Byzantines did not have handheld flamethrowers, are you being serious?

    It did. Greek fire is not a fiction.

    Political volunteers behaviour reflect on the political party, people who volunteer in museums represent that museum, voluntary police officers represent the police, you're argument falls flat.

    You have ignored my previous comment. I have said that CA representative is immeasurably more under scrutiny than forum moderators. Professionals ought to live to higher standards than volunteers. Also, it needs to be stressed out that in case of volunteers, the responsibility lies on recruiter. You are arguing in bad faith, again.

    Who did? Looking at the rules, who deserved to get banned? It's obvious if people were banned then whatever they said would have been removed, that's basic. Oh it's so political, or she's mildly surprised by the uproar.

    Someone on the first or second page remains banned. I imagine it was not their first offence. Erick and his partner in discussion also broke the rules but have not received a ban. It is not obvious at all. It is not basic at all. Sometimes comments are removed, sometimes they are not. It is political no matter the surprise.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    edited September 2018
    It did. Greek fire is not a fiction.

    When did I say Greek Fire didn't exist? now who's arguing on bad faith? I said handheld battlefield flamethrowers didn't exist that used Greek Fire, it was usually fired through a large pump based on ships.

    You have ignored my previous comment. I have said that CA representative is immeasurably more under scrutiny than forum moderators. Professionals ought to live to higher standards than volunteers. Also, it needs to be stressed out that in case of volunteers, the responsibility lies on recruiter. You are arguing in bad faith, again.

    Nope, quite clearly I took your argument "they are immeasurably different" and gave clear examples of staff who work for free in other contexts and pointed out that they are under scrutiny in the same way paid staff are. In these other contexts those people are scrutinised because they represent a company. You haven't proven objectively your point is true, it's merely a subjective view of the world that isn't backed up with evidence. the many times I've seen mods on here 'talk back' to paying members of the community I've not heard a peep out of you, yet when Ella says something trivial the world ends.

    Someone on the first or second page remains banned. I imagine it was not their first offence. Erick and his partner in discussion also broke the rules but have not received a ban. It is not obvious at all. It is not basic at all. Sometimes comments are removed, sometimes they are not. It is political no matter the surprise.

    What comment got them banned? Where did eric break the rules? It's political in your own head.

    Daily Stormer was not the first one who came up with an article on the subject. It was One Angry Gamer, then both Arch Warhammer and Daily Stormer followed afterwards. I understand, it is easier to try to deflect the issue by claiming 'it is all about them Stormer troll baddies' but it is not the case in any way, shape or form.

    Could it not be the case that Ella had dealt with many of these threads and been taking grief for a while? Impossible? The video by Arch Warhammer was utter garbage.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 23,787
    Everyone needs to lighten up a little.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    Everyone needs to lighten up a little.

    I'm hoping this 'anger/offence' fizzles out, especially when the new DLC is released.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464

    So, are people now getting offended on behalf of CA's PR and marketing department? I would say let them handle it, they're the ones getting paid for it after all.

    Also, I'm flabbergasted at the idea of some people here that company staff members apparently have to take abuse without question. Try going into a department store or restaurant, heap abuse on the staff and see how quickly you'll get escorted out and banned from the premises. See, it's in the interest of especially the community manager to keep things smooth and that also means getting rid of unabashedly disruptive elements. You think Ella's pretty reasonable response was "bad PR"? Do you know what would be actually bad PR? Letting the Daily Stormer crowd run rampant on company managed forums because, get this, the Daily Stormer crowd is mighty unpopular with quite a bit of the playerbase (and the population at large) and CA allowing these guys to spout their ideology unopposed would drive customers away quickly. Would you like to frequent a restaurant where some guy is allowed to daily shout his vile worldview at the top of his lungs and abuse the people around him? I don't think so.

    That is some projecting right there. No one said anything about taking abuse without question, but rather the reply back. Your example makes no sense because the escorting portion would be the equivalent of the thread getting locked. The good analogy with your example would be the customer gets escorted and on the top of that the employee throws some nasty remarks back at them. I can guarantee you that you would either get harsh talk from the manager or outright fired.

    As someone with customer experience I can say for certain that most people in this thread have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to those situations. The nr 1 emphasized all the time is ''you cannot talk back to the customer''. if it is a phone job you are allowed to ask them to be respectful and if they refuse you can advise them that the conversation will end due to their impoliteness, but you CANNOT throw insults/make derogatory remark/throw personal statements back at them.

    If you ever heard someone from customer service tell you ''if you are not happy with our services, you can go with a different bank/provider/etc'', I can guarantee you that this person would be fired not too long after.
  • Nyxilis#3646Nyxilis#3646 Registered Users Posts: 7,726
    Weapons that didn't exist is no different than % difference in gender balance.

    Your degrees are are just there to justify your viewpoint.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    If you ever heard someone from customer service tell you ''if you are not happy with our services, you can go with a different bank/provider/etc'', I can guarantee you that this person would be fired not too long after.

    If people are speaking to each other or employees in a way that would get them banned from the company website about something that is painfully unimportant I can guarantee they wouldn't.
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,371
    edited September 2018
    When did I say Greek Fire didn't exist? now who's arguing on bad faith? I said handheld battlefield flamethrowers didn't exist that used Greek Fire, it was usually fired through a large pump based on ships.

    You are. Magic word: 'usually'.

    Nope, quite clearly I took your argument "they are immeasurably different" and gave clear examples of staff who work for free in other contexts and pointed out that they are under scrutiny in the same way paid staff are. In these other contexts those people are scrutinised because they represent a company. You haven't proven objectively your point is true, it's merely a subjective view of the world that isn't backed up with evidence. the many times I've seen mods on here 'talk back' to paying members of the community I've not heard a peep out of you, yet when Ella says something trivial the world ends.

    But they are not under the same scrutiny. Mistakes made by volunteers are in no way, shape or form treated as ones made by trained professionals. Also, they are not representatives unless stated otherwise.The many times I've seen mods on here talk they have said their views do not represent that of CA. CA_Ella is CA representative who used politically charged jab. Apologies are due.

    What comment got them banned? Where did eric break the rules? It's political in your own head.
    The one that is still banned is #16.

    Erick: It's pretty simple. If given a choice women choose to put their children in a dumpster. #57 Could it not be the case that Ella had dealt with many of these threads and been taking grief for a while? Impossible? The video by Arch Warhammer was utter garbage.

    It could but it does not CA_Ella right to talk-back. Not to mention it is unreleated considering news on the subject came after CA_Ella response.
    Nyxilis said:

    Weapons that didn't exist is no different than % difference in gender balance.

    Your degrees are are just there to justify your viewpoint.

    It is different. You can far easier come up with weapon than to change ones' physical and psychological core.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,075
    You are. Magic word: 'usually'

    Yes and let me say, there's no evidence of the Byzantines ever using a magical 'stick' with an animals head on it that could throw Greek Fire. Even in the modern era flamethrowers require more than a tube.

    But they are not under the same scrutiny. Mistakes made by volunteers are in no way, shape or form treated as ones made by trained professionals. Also, they are not representatives unless stated otherwise.The many times I've seen mods on here talk they have said their views do not represent that of CA. CA_Ella is CA representative who used politically charged jab. Apologies are due.

    Not really, as even if in the case of volunteers back-chatting changes to a 'mistake', if this poor behaviour did happen it would reflect on the company if they allowed this so called bad behaviour to continue it would obviously reflect on them, how is this not obvious? However, I know that CA disagree with you and they will back their employee, so as much as you want it - not going to happen.

    The one that is still banned is #16.

    He's not banned for the actual comment he made in #16 as it says banned on all his other comments. also he's not said anything worse than anyone else, so it follows that his worst comments were removed. just like other who we can't see because they may have only chipped in with a comment that's worth a ban.

    It could but it does not CA_Ella right to talk-back. Not to mention it is unreleated considering news on the subject came after CA_Ella response.

    I'm not sure where you come from but Ella does have a right to say what she feels is right. In past cases were employees did step out of line the company made an immediate statement. This will not happen.

    It is different. You can far easier come up with weapon than to change ones' physical and psychological core.

    What's this got to do with anything? This doesn't disprove women had important roles in this period including leading armies and navies. Physically weak men have been leaders.
This discussion has been closed.