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Real Time Naval Battles?

ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 34,001
Since the DLC is going to be very pirate-y (presumably), it would be a great opportunity to bring back naval combat. If so I foresee it being done in the ToB style, as in no dedicated navies, armies become fleets of warships when seaborne instead. This would also mean changing the battlemaps of coastal towns to include the sea and landing spots. All races would probably only get 1-3 different ship types for their rosters since unlike the previous TW titles with naval combat, you can't reuse any naval assets and have to make unique ship types for every race.

I think that would actually justify the waiting period and this coming before the SKV/LM LP.

Comments

  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,636
    And here we have yet another sad soul desperately searching for something that will never come to be. Creating a thread about a topic that everyone knows the answer to, hoping that someone would offer but a slightest thread of hope. Yet the responses he gets are nothing but sarcasm and pity.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,913
    I always feel that tactical naval combat is a pretty huge feature, practical a 2nd game mode or 3rd if you count campaign.

    Hence I always though that WH2 was the great opportunity to introduce naval combat, since it was something new, the amount of water on the map seem to make it a necessary and it easily would convince people that it is a proper squeal.


    But since that didn't happen, I don't see a "random" campaign pack changing fate here.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • LordCommanderLordCommander Registered Users Posts: 2,656
    Warhammer was always a chance to make naval battles actually good, imo. Vastly different looking ships, sea monsters etc.. but from what I can tell from a CA member GW wasn't that enthused about the idea and neither was CA. Always thought they planned *something* as early builds of Warhammer had recruitable Admirals, but I reckon the chances are still slim.
    Just as a warning against making predictions- https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290416/time-to-admit-there-will-be-no-new-dlc-for-twwh-2#latest

    Stung by people disagreeing with you? Try calling them shills and whiteknights, it's way easier than debating.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited October 2018
    SiWI said:

    I always feel that tactical naval combat is a pretty huge feature, practical a 2nd game mode or 3rd if you count campaign.

    Hence I always though that WH2 was the great opportunity to introduce naval combat, since it was something new, the amount of water on the map seem to make it a necessary and it easily would convince people that it is a proper squeal.


    But since that didn't happen, I don't see a "random" campaign pack changing fate here.

    It's not quite random as a "pirate" theme ( I mean, one of the most likely upcoming playable factions is even called Pirates) would actually offer a thematic opportunity to bring naval battles back. There's also that hint the update will bring something back that was in other TWs and but is currently not in WH.

    Of course, that could also refer to command groups and banners. I would take that one too.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,913

    SiWI said:

    I always feel that tactical naval combat is a pretty huge feature, practical a 2nd game mode or 3rd if you count campaign.

    Hence I always though that WH2 was the great opportunity to introduce naval combat, since it was something new, the amount of water on the map seem to make it a necessary and it easily would convince people that it is a proper squeal.


    But since that didn't happen, I don't see a "random" campaign pack changing fate here.

    It's not quite random as a "pirate" theme ( I mean, one of the most likely upcoming playable factions is even called Pirates) would actually offer a thematic opportunity to bring naval battles back.
    yeah but think about it:
    they could have theme the whole game 2 around navies, given the amount of water and that the 2 biggest naval powers of the Warhammer lore are in it.

    But they didn't.

    And now with this DLC that change that?

    And this is all assuming that it is either "Vampire coast" or "DoW" with heavy pirates work in.

    None of those 2 things is set in stone to say the least.


    And lets not forget:
    3K also doesn't have naval combat.
    So... it seems that CA has read all the "CA shouldn't bother with navies" comments here in this forum...
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 11,045
    Yeah I'm with the German here. I don't see it coming.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
  • KelefaneKelefane Registered Users Posts: 3,545
    I have serious doubts we'll ever see true naval combat. That is a game mode that would probably need to be a DLC in and of itself because it would take a lot of Charlemagnes to implement.

  • Lord_KamionLord_Kamion Registered Users Posts: 959
    God no. Naval combat is so boring....and sooooo micro intensive. Not to mention most of the Warhammer races don't even have navies, and the cost of creating an entirely new battle system and rosters for every faction as well as intergrating LLs, Black arks, and monsters.

    There are so many areas that could be better spent. Just go the way of GCCM and do sea themed land battles. Side note those guys are utterly incredible.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited October 2018

    God no. Naval combat is so boring....and sooooo micro intensive. Not to mention most of the Warhammer races don't even have navies, and the cost of creating an entirely new battle system and rosters for every faction as well as intergrating LLs, Black arks, and monsters.

    There are so many areas that could be better spent. Just go the way of GCCM and do sea themed land battles. Side note those guys are utterly incredible.

    No, that's a really poor substitute, especially with the whole Schrödinger's Island issue. I want proper naval combat and WH did have specialist games expanding on exactly that.
  • Lord_KamionLord_Kamion Registered Users Posts: 959

    God no. Naval combat is so boring....and sooooo micro intensive. Not to mention most of the Warhammer races don't even have navies, and the cost of creating an entirely new battle system and rosters for every faction as well as intergrating LLs, Black arks, and monsters.

    There are so many areas that could be better spent. Just go the way of GCCM and do sea themed land battles. Side note those guys are utterly incredible.

    No, that's a really poor substitute, especially with the whole Schrödinger's Island issue. I want proper naval combat and WH did have specialist games expanding on exactly that.
    What does a theoretical experiment mocking Bhor's interpretations of quantum mechanics have to do with conveniently placed islands?

    And yes it had Man O' War; which in the list of Warhammer spin offs was somewhat less enjoyable than Brawlhouse Bash....the GW orc bar fight simulator. It didn't really work as a system, and is missing a number of the factions in the game. Not to mention flying monsters were almost as unbalanced as Storm of Chaos level Teclis.

    Things like magic, and monster animations would have to be completely reworked. Giving a MASSIVE advantage to the High Elves for completely dominating the aerial combat.

    But it all comes back to naval combat never being fun in TW. Having to micro 10 units constantly, for the brief seconds that can actyally engage is terrible. Having your ship be boarded, which is apparently carrying an elite army that just don't bother to fight and leave it to the crew, is frustrating. And having to wait to cross the ocean to recruit navies is just fun draining.

    Don't see why CA would go to the trouble when there are so many more important things to add to the game
  • DebaucheeDebauchee Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,413



    But it all comes back to naval combat never being fun in TW. Having to micro 10 units constantly, for the brief seconds that can actyally engage is terrible. Having your ship be boarded, which is apparently carrying an elite army that just don't bother to fight and leave it to the crew, is frustrating. And having to wait to cross the ocean to recruit navies is just fun draining.

    Don't see why CA would go to the trouble when there are so many more important things to add to the game

    That's just your opinion, man.
    There are always people, who don't like certain aspects of TW be it naval combat, sieges, grand campaign, multiplayer or even real time battles. The series should strive to improve these parts of the game, instead of discarding them. Should CA listen to all those naysayers, the game would be reduced to a crapy browser app.
  • Lord_KamionLord_Kamion Registered Users Posts: 959
    Debauchee said:



    But it all comes back to naval combat never being fun in TW. Having to micro 10 units constantly, for the brief seconds that can actyally engage is terrible. Having your ship be boarded, which is apparently carrying an elite army that just don't bother to fight and leave it to the crew, is frustrating. And having to wait to cross the ocean to recruit navies is just fun draining.

    Don't see why CA would go to the trouble when there are so many more important things to add to the game

    That's just your opinion, man.
    There are always people, who don't like certain aspects of TW be it naval combat, sieges, grand campaign, multiplayer or even real time battles. The series should strive to improve these parts of the game, instead of discarding them. Should CA listen to all those naysayers, the game would be reduced to a crapy browser app.
    I'm aware it's my opinion. If people didnt share their opinions there would be nothing on the forum.

    But constant micro, lack of roster diversity, ridiculous logic, boring maps, complete rework of magic and LL, and the massive advantage High Elves would have....are all objective points.

    The consistent negative response to Naval Battles in the past is also an objective point. Just go read all the MANY posts, on here and Reddit, on how much naval combat sucked in Shogun.

    If you can find me a single person on the forum who is against 'real time battles' I'll be very impressed. That's the entire game. Sieges, multiplayer, and having a campaign. Are all also elements that have always been in there.....because without it you don't really have a game. As well as being pretty crucial to a Warhammer representation.

    Naval battles however have been trialed in TW and got a very poor response. That's why CA doesn't do them anymore.
  • TotalBorehammerTotalBorehammer Registered Users Posts: 1,123
    Crossil said:

    And here we have yet another sad soul desperately searching for something that will never come to be. Creating a thread about a topic that everyone knows the answer to, hoping that someone would offer but a slightest thread of hope. Yet the responses he gets are nothing but sarcasm and pity.

    Ditto on this, and Ephraim should know better than to make silly fantasist threads like this when CA have said a gazillion times that naval combat is not on the horizon.
    CA have a Facebook page... use the comments section of their posts and express your thoughts on ME poor quality/delays etc https://www.facebook.com/CreativeAssembly/ :)
  • BiesBies Junior Member SwedenRegistered Users Posts: 4,457
    Just add medieval naval system where we can build navies and autoresolve them and its done/

    "I shivered at the sight of her - her beauty far beyond that of mortal man. But her soul glowed with an inner darkness that chilled my very core."









  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 11,188
    Bies said:

    Just add medieval naval system where we can build navies and autoresolve them and its done/

    Lol no!

    Autoresolve only is not a solution.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • DebaucheeDebauchee Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,413

    Debauchee said:



    But it all comes back to naval combat never being fun in TW. Having to micro 10 units constantly, for the brief seconds that can actyally engage is terrible. Having your ship be boarded, which is apparently carrying an elite army that just don't bother to fight and leave it to the crew, is frustrating. And having to wait to cross the ocean to recruit navies is just fun draining.

    Don't see why CA would go to the trouble when there are so many more important things to add to the game

    That's just your opinion, man.
    There are always people, who don't like certain aspects of TW be it naval combat, sieges, grand campaign, multiplayer or even real time battles. The series should strive to improve these parts of the game, instead of discarding them. Should CA listen to all those naysayers, the game would be reduced to a crapy browser app.
    I'm aware it's my opinion. If people didnt share their opinions there would be nothing on the forum.

    But constant micro, lack of roster diversity, ridiculous logic, boring maps, complete rework of magic and LL, and the massive advantage High Elves would have....are all objective points.

    The consistent negative response to Naval Battles in the past is also an objective point. Just go read all the MANY posts, on here and Reddit, on how much naval combat sucked in Shogun.

    If you can find me a single person on the forum who is against 'real time battles' I'll be very impressed. That's the entire game. Sieges, multiplayer, and having a campaign. Are all also elements that have always been in there.....because without it you don't really have a game. As well as being pretty crucial to a Warhammer representation.

    Naval battles however have been trialed in TW and got a very poor response. That's why CA doesn't do them anymore.
    There is no "consistent negative responce" to naval combat. People liked naval combat in "Empire" and "Fall of the Samurai". "Shogun 2" is a hit or miss thing, because the the naval warfare of XVIth century feudal Japan was goofy. "Rome 2" and "Attila" had rather mediocre naval combat, yet it was totaly worth it, if only just for the sake of assaulting coastal cities with combined forces of land armies and fleets.
    By the way I can also dig up negative responce about virtually any aspect of the TW game: back in 2016 prior to release of Warhammer there was a short-lived controversy, where a developer stated, that he didn't want multiple stacks to participate in combat, because it was too much micro and "felt wrong". I remember naysayers, who were totally onboard with this regressive idea, crwaling out of the woodwork on this very forum. There was even that one guy, who said that he didn't care, because he was not fond of real-time combat anyway (too microintensive for him, huh?). Mayber CA should listen to him? Rome 2 had so much negative responce about real-time combat, so maybe they should ditch it for good? Oh, wait, Warhammer got it right. Maybe it could get naval combat right. We'll never know, because CA does not feel like spending too much time and money on this game - the only objective point against naval combat.
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