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When someone says: "4 Chaos Factions in WH3? Impossible"...i reply: "ASININE MORTAL"

Gotrek_BeastslayerGotrek_Beastslayer Posts: 1,089Registered Users


*Evil Laugh*


WH Novels:

- Vampire Wars: The Von Carstein Trilogy: 10/10
- Gilead's Blood: 8/10
- Riders of the Dead: 9/10
- Empire in Chaos: 9/10
- Mark of Damnation: 7.5/10
- Mark of Heresy: 7/10
- G&F: Trollslayer: 6.5/10
- G&F: Skavenslayer: 9.5/10
- G&F: Daemonslayer: 10/10
- G&F: Dragonslayer: 8/10
- G&F: Beastslayer: 8.5/10
- G&F: Vampireslayer: 7/10
- G&F: Giantslayer: 7.5/10
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Comments

  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Posts: 2,586Registered Users
  • LudboneLudbone Posts: 855Registered Users

    Beastmen: where is the love?


  • IokkoIokko Junior Member Posts: 266Registered Users
    Memes aside, i do think they're going with 4 chaos factions, maybe they will all be core or maybe 2 will be DLC, who knows.

    Either way if it means more content i'm perfectly fine with it. I do understand the arguments against it too though, i guess we'll have to wait and see. Either way warhammer 3 is still far away, hopefully with a few more DLC in between.
    Stating opinions as if they're facts in your signature and adding "Change my mind" doesn't make them facts, change my mind.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 1,562Registered Users
    Haha, Gotrek strikes again!

    I doubt we wil get 4 Core Monogods, but 2 seems reasonable.

    Still think they may go DoC, but think there is a god chance we may get monogods as DLC afterwards. And as I think it is the only chance we will get to have Tamurkhan, Valkia, and perhaps Daemon princes (unified DoC may just use Greater Daemons as generals, in which case there will already be Lord 4 variants, at least at the time of DoC completion).
  • GodWillTellGodWillTell Posts: 511Registered Users
    Gotrek is right.

    - When people said that WoC and Daemons would have been the only 2 Chaos races/factions, or whatever you want to call them, in the entire trilogy........CA released Norsca with 2 Legendary Lords from WoC.

    - When people said that only units and Legendary Lords from the 8th armybook would have been in the game........CA added several Forge World/Monstrum Arcanum units.

    - When people said Norsca and Vampire Coast = impossible because they lacks of an armybook.........you know the rest.

    The point is CA can create 4 Monogod races/factions. There are no doubts about that now. The old Russian Datamine hinted this.

    #FORGHORGON
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Posts: 3,402Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    Personally how I'd love to see if is still 8 legendary lords, but have 2 for Chaos Dwarfs, 2 for Ogres, and 1 for each god. Each God would only have 1 LL at launch and obviously share plenty of stuff but still be unique enough to be considered their own faction. This would also somewhat alleviate a problem people mention, that being "What could they sell as DLC for WH3?" As they could have 3 Lord packs, 1 OK vs Chaos Dwarfs, and 2 for the Chaos Factions(Probably K vs S and T vs N)



    I just really hope thry don't go Chaos Undivided. It's weird, I consider Chaos Undivided the most boring faction but the individual God's I think can be extremely interesting. I mean, if a Medieval 2 mod can figure it out surely CA can.
  • GodWillTellGodWillTell Posts: 511Registered Users
    Krunch said:

    Personally how I'd love to see if is still 8 legendary lords, but have 2 for Chaos Dwarfs, 2 for Ogres, and 1 for each god. Each God would only have 1 LL at launch and obviously share plenty of stuff but still be unique enough to be considered their own faction. This would also somewhat alleviate a problem people mention, that being "What could they sell as DLC for WH3?" As they could have 3 Lord packs, 1 OK vs Chaos Dwarfs, and 2 for the Chaos Factions(Probably K vs S and T vs N)



    I just really hope thry don't go Chaos Undivided. It's weird, I consider Chaos Undivided the most boring faction but the individual God's I think can be extremely interesting. I mean, if a Medieval 2 mod can figure it out surely CA can.

    Releasing 2 of them as Core Races and the other 2 as DLC like Bretonnia, with half of the real roster already in the game but not playable, would be perfect.
    Also Chaos Undivided is so lame and weird. The Chaos Gods hate each other like mortal enemies. They always fight with their armies.

    #FORGHORGON
  • TalmoreanTalmorean Posts: 1,226Registered Users
    Gotrek the Memesmith
  • Gotrek_BeastslayerGotrek_Beastslayer Posts: 1,089Registered Users
    Goatforce said:

    Haha, Gotrek strikes again!

    I doubt we wil get 4 Core Monogods, but 2 seems reasonable.

    Still think they may go DoC, but think there is a god chance we may get monogods as DLC afterwards. And as I think it is the only chance we will get to have Tamurkhan, Valkia, and perhaps Daemon princes (unified DoC may just use Greater Daemons as generals, in which case there will already be Lord 4 variants, at least at the time of DoC completion).

    ;)

    Well i'm speaking about having 4 Monogods in WH3 someway. I don't care how CA will add 'em~ the important is having 'em.

    My idea is 2 Monogods as Core and the other 2 as Campaign Packs or Race Packs. This will help CA with future DLCs~

    Edit: also having the other 2 not-core Monogods just like Bretonnia was during WH1 before its complete release is a pretty nice idea, as said by @GodWillTell


    WH Novels:

    - Vampire Wars: The Von Carstein Trilogy: 10/10
    - Gilead's Blood: 8/10
    - Riders of the Dead: 9/10
    - Empire in Chaos: 9/10
    - Mark of Damnation: 7.5/10
    - Mark of Heresy: 7/10
    - G&F: Trollslayer: 6.5/10
    - G&F: Skavenslayer: 9.5/10
    - G&F: Daemonslayer: 10/10
    - G&F: Dragonslayer: 8/10
    - G&F: Beastslayer: 8.5/10
    - G&F: Vampireslayer: 7/10
    - G&F: Giantslayer: 7.5/10
  • 1v01v0 Posts: 155Registered Users
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Posts: 1,377Registered Users

    Krunch said:

    Personally how I'd love to see if is still 8 legendary lords, but have 2 for Chaos Dwarfs, 2 for Ogres, and 1 for each god. Each God would only have 1 LL at launch and obviously share plenty of stuff but still be unique enough to be considered their own faction. This would also somewhat alleviate a problem people mention, that being "What could they sell as DLC for WH3?" As they could have 3 Lord packs, 1 OK vs Chaos Dwarfs, and 2 for the Chaos Factions(Probably K vs S and T vs N)



    I just really hope thry don't go Chaos Undivided. It's weird, I consider Chaos Undivided the most boring faction but the individual God's I think can be extremely interesting. I mean, if a Medieval 2 mod can figure it out surely CA can.

    Releasing 2 of them as Core Races and the other 2 as DLC like Bretonnia, with half of the real roster already in the game but not playable, would be perfect.
    Also Chaos Undivided is so lame and weird. The Chaos Gods hate each other like mortal enemies. They always fight with their armies.
    I say add 2 monogod daemon/mortal/beastmen armies at the start, add two for later, and Daemons of Chaos Undivided as a FLC when all 4 have been added to the game.
  • Chocolate_RainChocolate_Rain Posts: 302Registered Users
    When the night is darker, Gotrek brings the dawn
  • AmericanViking22AmericanViking22 Junior Member Posts: 106Registered Users
    Yeah, let's take this trilogy, one of the greatest features of which is the variety between factions, and make the third game launch with just 1 split into 4 subfactions. Great idea! /s

    While I'll admit that 4 Daemon factions seems more feasible now, that doesn't make it any less of a terrible idea. Making WH3, which will presumably be a full price game like 2, appeal only to Daemon players would be a tremendously stupid move. No question, it will launch with Chaos Dwarves, Ogre Kingdoms, and probably Kislev, though that last one's much less of a sure bet.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 1,800Registered Users
    Yeah, the more and more they add and the deeper they dig it really starts supporting monogod all that much more. I'm still of the believe it's going to be that way. More if they decide to fix Beastmen and WoC alongside them.
  • Fuzzybeard3Fuzzybeard3 Posts: 91Registered Users
    Lol nice joke!!!!
  • GollummypreciousGollummyprecious Posts: 328Registered Users
    Well im not against 4 WoC subfactions and 4 DoC subfactions as long as they have 2 lords each for variety sake, otherwise it would be major deamon ll and a random lord between all the named characters from the lore and army books (which is alot)
    Sanity is a curse, madness offers the only freedom...
  • GodWillTellGodWillTell Posts: 511Registered Users

    Krunch said:

    Personally how I'd love to see if is still 8 legendary lords, but have 2 for Chaos Dwarfs, 2 for Ogres, and 1 for each god. Each God would only have 1 LL at launch and obviously share plenty of stuff but still be unique enough to be considered their own faction. This would also somewhat alleviate a problem people mention, that being "What could they sell as DLC for WH3?" As they could have 3 Lord packs, 1 OK vs Chaos Dwarfs, and 2 for the Chaos Factions(Probably K vs S and T vs N)



    I just really hope thry don't go Chaos Undivided. It's weird, I consider Chaos Undivided the most boring faction but the individual God's I think can be extremely interesting. I mean, if a Medieval 2 mod can figure it out surely CA can.

    Releasing 2 of them as Core Races and the other 2 as DLC like Bretonnia, with half of the real roster already in the game but not playable, would be perfect.
    Also Chaos Undivided is so lame and weird. The Chaos Gods hate each other like mortal enemies. They always fight with their armies.
    I say add 2 monogod daemon/mortal/beastmen armies at the start, add two for later, and Daemons of Chaos Undivided as a FLC when all 4 have been added to the game.
    Monogods mixed with their Champions and Chosen, Gods related Beastmen, Daemons and some missing units from WoC like Skullcrushers and Vortex Beast is just THE perfection.
    Every other videogame about Warhammer did Monogods mixed with Daemons/Gods Warriors......even Call of Warhammer MOD. I doubt CA won't do that too. They also have tons of material about Monogods than the other Warhammer videogame featuring them like Vermintide 2 and Mark of Chaos.

    #FORGHORGON
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Posts: 3,402Registered Users
    edited October 2018

    Well im not against 4 WoC subfactions and 4 DoC subfactions as long as they have 2 lords each for variety sake, otherwise it would be major deamon ll and a random lord between all the named characters from the lore and army books (which is alot)

    If there were monogod factions the idea is that it would be mixed Warriors and Demons dedicated to each god.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 11,734Registered Users, Moderators
    The difference is that, of course, the Daemons of Chaos are all in one armybook.

    That's what make it seem likely that we will see them as one "race".
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  • RikisRikis Posts: 697Registered Users
    Personally what I would like to see for DoC is one race with 4 LL each representing one chaos god.

    My favorite option for Warhammer 3 as for core races is...

    DoC with two LL representing whatever gods.

    Chaos dwarfs for that evil order faction.

    Ogre Kingdoms because ogres...

    Khislev for that more relatable faction.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 1,800Registered Users
    Canuovea said:

    The difference is that, of course, the Daemons of Chaos are all in one armybook.

    That's what make it seem likely that we will see them as one "race".

    If a Norsca army proper had ever simply been in a army book it would've been in a Warriors of Chaos. Those minor factions were fleshed out in expanded material usually. And well.. so were monogod both in the army book and outside. It's not really that much of a stretch anymore.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,429Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    I don't think the main argument centers around feasibility, or if it's possible. I think only a vocal handful have argued against it being logistically possible.

    I think the main argument is whether or not it would be a smart business move/appeal to a wider player-base than only having 1 Daemon 'race' and have the rest be other things.

    I think ^^this is the major issue.

    Game 3 is likely to see decreased sales in comparison to the previous two titles already due to many other factors. No reason to make that problem worse by making it a 'Chaos only/Chaos majority' game at launch. Chaos 25% at launch is plenty enough to grab the Chaos demographic. Any more than that would be wasteful overkill and would deter a potential market they could have captured by adding anything else.

    The MOST I could see them doing to appease Chaos fans (that wouldn't incur too much backlash from non-Chaos fans) is to launch Daemons as one race, but 4 LL at the very beginning instead of 2, and maybe giving each LL a unique unit or two similar to how each Roman family in Rome 1 had unique units although mostly shared the same 'Roman' roster. But even this ^^ I think is a stretch. Again, not from a technical or design stand point....but just as an issue of pragmatic financial decision making.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,815Registered Users
    It would be nice but I don't think CA will. I think it will just be DoC as the army book has it. The entire chaos theme so far is one of being undivided which matches the end times setting.
  • vie_dragonvie_dragon Posts: 143Registered Users
    In all honesty, who wouldn't buy 4 fleshed out Chaos Factions. Fighting for your favoured god is pretty much one of the most demanded features for Warhammer!
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 12,090Registered Users
    Not impossible just an incredibly bad idea if they're not all DLC. Anything else would hurt the game.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,220Registered Users
    Okay that was hilarious (and I read that in Patrick's voice). Not gonna lie.

    But there's two big problems with monogod army lists no one has brought up.

    1) Say we have a Tzeentch monogod list led by Kairos Fateweaver. But what if I want to lead an undivided army with him as you can in TT and as he did in the lore? Will I need to rely on mods for that?

    2) I'm playing Warriors of Chaos and want to confederate Valkia the Bloody and Tamurkhan respectively, but I can't because each of them are a different 'race'. What then?
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,264Registered Users

    Krunch said:

    Personally how I'd love to see if is still 8 legendary lords, but have 2 for Chaos Dwarfs, 2 for Ogres, and 1 for each god. Each God would only have 1 LL at launch and obviously share plenty of stuff but still be unique enough to be considered their own faction. This would also somewhat alleviate a problem people mention, that being "What could they sell as DLC for WH3?" As they could have 3 Lord packs, 1 OK vs Chaos Dwarfs, and 2 for the Chaos Factions(Probably K vs S and T vs N)



    I just really hope thry don't go Chaos Undivided. It's weird, I consider Chaos Undivided the most boring faction but the individual God's I think can be extremely interesting. I mean, if a Medieval 2 mod can figure it out surely CA can.

    Releasing 2 of them as Core Races and the other 2 as DLC like Bretonnia, with half of the real roster already in the game but not playable, would be perfect.
    Also Chaos Undivided is so lame and weird. The Chaos Gods hate each other like mortal enemies. They always fight with their armies.
    It's actually a lot more complex than that.

    The relationship between the Chaos Gods is less like that of bitter, eternally opposed rivals and more like a bunch of really obnoxious college students who quarrel all the time and occasionally **** each other over, but still hang out and do things together. They say they hate each other all the time, and on some level they do, but they never actually leave the group even though no one's stopping them.

    Similarly, the Great Game isn't just a straight-up competition between rivals like a lot of people think. It's also about a bunch of really jaded gods screwing around with their followers, each other, and the mortal world for the heck of it. Everything they, their followers, and their enemies do genuinely a game to them.

    That's why you can have Khorne and Nurgle daemons under the command of a Lord of Change attacking Lizardmen in Lustria at the same time that a huge three-way battle between Tzeentchian, Khornate, and Nurglite daemons is raging in the Badlands. It's not nonsensical. It's just part of the game, and the GW likes to leave the gods' motives to readers' imaginations. Maybe all three gods wanted a magical macguffin in the Badlands but they also really wanted to kill a certain Slaan in Lustria. Maybe they were already working together in Lustria but Tzeentch saw Nurgle snooping around the Badlands and though "hehehe, I'll spoil his fun", then Khorne saw them fighting and joined in for the heck of it.

    Yes, each god is trying to win the game. That's made abundantly clear in the lore. But they're also out to have a good time and a lot of what they do is seemingly for fun. Why else would Khorne and Slaanesh, the most bitter rivals of among gods, make a wager over whose daemons could kill more people in Altdorf during one Geheimnisnacht? Why else would all four gods make a bet involving each of them trying to take a different Dwarf hold? (Only Nurgle's forces failed, which meant he lost the bet.) Why else would the gods, upon the death of a champion that they each had a claim on, cordially agree to divide the soul so everyone gets an equal share?

    Saying just the gods fighting each other is selling it far short of what it actually is. It's like saying that the 30 Years War was "just a religious war" and ignoring the countless other reasons the participants fought for. The Great Game is far more interesting than a simple god war. Wars, alliances, laid-out plans and spontaneous actions, opposition and cooperation in the most unexpected ways; they're all part of the game.

    Take the End Times: It notes in the intro that the Chaos Gods have grown tired of their game, and are now all seeking to destroy the world to wipe the slate clean. In other words, they destroyed Fantasy because they were bored with it and wanted a new world to play their game in. It's so clearly worded that you can almost picture the gods sitting around a board game, bored out of their minds, until one of them finally says "**** this, let's play something else," and they toss their game into the fireplace and go buy a new one. Once the game stopped being fun, they stopped caring about winning and decided together to just start a new game.

    What does this all mean for Chaos in Game 3?

    It means Chaos Undivided makes just as much sense as Chaos Divided because it's all part of the Great Game. However Chaos appears in Game 3, as long as it isn't totally crazy like making Khorne a god of peace or something, it'll fit the lore perfectly because it'll simply reflect what the gods are currently doing in their game.

    It's okay to say you'd prefer to have Chaos Divided, Chaos Undivided, or both in Game 3. That's totally fine. People have different preferences so it's only natural to want different things. But anyone saying that Chaos must be represented in one way or another to be true to canon or that one variant is objectively more "correct" than the others is vastly underestimating the complexity and craziness of both the Chaos Gods and their game, which I find far more interesting and entertaining than any simple rivalry.
  • OptimisticOptimistic Member Posts: 220Registered Users
    I laughed, that was well done.

    More seriously however, I fully agree. At this point we know CA is willing to use any and every source they want to extrapolate a full fledged race or faction. The Vampire Coast DLC stands as unequivocal proof (in my opinion at least) that CA will include anything so long as it has a "cool" or fun factor and fits firmly within both campaigns (the vortex for game 2, the yet unannounced version included in game 3, and the combined map campaign).
  • IokkoIokko Junior Member Posts: 266Registered Users
    I'd like to see 4 monogod armies (combined daemons + warriors) but also have the option to do an undivided daemons only army.
    Stating opinions as if they're facts in your signature and adding "Change my mind" doesn't make them facts, change my mind.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 1,562Registered Users
    Wyvax said:

    Okay that was hilarious (and I read that in Patrick's voice). Not gonna lie.

    But there's two big problems with monogod army lists no one has brought up.

    1) Say we have a Tzeentch monogod list led by Kairos Fateweaver. But what if I want to lead an undivided army with him as you can in TT and as he did in the lore? Will I need to rely on mods for that?

    2) I'm playing Warriors of Chaos and want to confederate Valkia the Bloody and Tamurkhan respectively, but I can't because each of them are a different 'race'. What then?

    1: Well I think we would get DoC at launch in game 3, and Kairos will be one of the lords, so you would be able to. In monogod scenario then you wouldn't, but lorewise Archaon led armies with Daemons, and he will likely never be able to - just the limitation of this game.

    2: Simple, without monogod it is highly unlikely either Valkia or Tamurkhan will be in the game. Daemons will get probs 5 LL (one for each god and Be'Lakor), and barring an almost miraculously large addition of LLs to WoC (at least 1 for each god, more for Tamurkhan as he is more FW and thus less likely than other Nurgle LLs) it simply wont happen.

    Whether Core (unlikely, unless only 2 core) or DLC, some of these characters will only come with monogods. Stuff like them and Daemon Princes (unless they are just used as generals for DoC instead of Greater Daemons) are unlikely to make it in, as however good the WoC overhaul with 3 (worth remembering that is still an assumption at this point, not confirmed) adding all this would be like adding an entire new race - probably more. Just don't see it happening tbh.
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