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When someone says: "4 Chaos Factions in WH3? Impossible"...i reply: "ASININE MORTAL"

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  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Posts: 2,149Registered Users
    uriak said:


    - the DoC roster was meant to work as a whole, the way the Skavens are. You're supposed to have access to monsters/warmachines/assassins and plague units together. But for lore reasons people just want to split their daemons. Okay, only slow powerful brutes for khornes, only anvil units for Nurgle, glasscanons agile for Slaanesh and stuff for Tzeench.

    steph74 said:

    I don't see why people want 4 races. Why not one race, with 4 factions, each faction dedicated to a specific god, with its own LL and a few specific units?

    I really don't know. On the TT Demons were expressly designed to work together, far more than even Orcs and Goblins were. They're a chaotic horde, not neatly organized by colour. There's no real basis from the TT to make them separate.
    Ummm the TT specifically forbids mixing God marked units under a God marked Generals. You can mix 3 chaos army books more freely than you can mix units of different Gods.

    Chaos don't fit well under the current faction/race system.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 13,409Registered Users
    @Petromir That's wrong. There was a time they were one book, 5th ed. That time has long since passed. Demons are 1 book and expressly designed to work together. It's been like that since 6th ed.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • LudboneLudbone Posts: 1,039Registered Users

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Still thinking that Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle will be all the same thing when CA literally pulled a "b/tch please" with Vampire Coast, Norsca and their rosters? :D

    I know you are against Chaos but this is just denying the truth.
    Beastmen: where is the love?


  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 4,886Registered Users

    @Petromir That's wrong. There was a time they were one book, 5th ed. That time has long since passed. Demons are 1 book and expressly designed to work together. It's been like that since 6th ed.

    Technically speaking, mid-7th edition. 6E still had all of Chaos as being technically one army list, but with restrictions based on what your General was. The 7E books split along Warriors/Demons/Beastmen lines, and while I've heard it claimed that there were special rules allowing mixing between the books, I haven't found those rules myself. Certainly, though, from 7E onwards, single-god lists became something you did purely as a theme rather than something that was backed up by the rules, and demon armies were expected to mix demons of different gods.

    8E definitely didn't have mixing between the Chaos army books beyond that available through everybody through alliance rules: a DoC and WoC army working together was treated no differently to Empire and Dwarfs working together.

    And then we had End Times, but I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting using the final "use anything, including skaven!" united End Times Chaos list.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 13,409Registered Users
    Ludbone said:

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Still thinking that Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle will be all the same thing when CA literally pulled a "b/tch please" with Vampire Coast, Norsca and their rosters? :D

    I know you are against Chaos but this is just denying the truth.
    The claim that I am against Chaos is a lie.

    We don't even have the VC2 roster yet. The four colours of Demons are four of the same thing. I don't want 4 Undead DLC, I don't want 4 Elf DLC, I don't want 4 human DLC. Yes, CA can make them different from each other but they still come from the same core idea. They're still part of the same group. While individually they may be good the lack of variety hurts them. Think of it this way, I love Thai food, I could eat at four different Thai places all with their own menus, styles, and decor, but that would be boring, I'd rather eat at a Thai place, then A Mexican, then an Australian, and finally a Korean. That's much more appetizing to me because it offers much more variety because they're 4 different ideas. In the same way if we're getting 4 DLC's I'd prefer to get 4 different ideas rather than 4 takes on the same idea which is Monogods.

    Sidenote; we don't even have the VC2 roster yet.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Gotrek_BeastslayerGotrek_Beastslayer Posts: 1,226Registered Users

    Forget Sigmar. Praise Gotrek!





    WH Novels:

    - Vampire Wars: The Von Carstein Trilogy: 10/10
    - Gilead's Blood: 8/10
    - Riders of the Dead: 9/10
    - Empire in Chaos: 9/10
    - Mark of Damnation: 7.5/10
    - Mark of Heresy: 7/10
    - G&F: Trollslayer: 6.5/10
    - G&F: Skavenslayer: 9.5/10
    - G&F: Daemonslayer: 10/10
    - G&F: Dragonslayer: 8/10
    - G&F: Beastslayer: 8.5/10
    - G&F: Vampireslayer: 7/10
    - G&F: Giantslayer: 7.5/10
    - The Chronicles of Malus Darkblade vol. one: 8.5/10
    - Drachenfels: 6.5/10
    - Genevìeve Undead: 7.5/10
    - Silver Nails: 9.5/10
  • LudboneLudbone Posts: 1,039Registered Users

    Ludbone said:

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Still thinking that Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle will be all the same thing when CA literally pulled a "b/tch please" with Vampire Coast, Norsca and their rosters? :D

    I know you are against Chaos but this is just denying the truth.
    The claim that I am against Chaos is a lie.

    We don't even have the VC2 roster yet. The four colours of Demons are four of the same thing. I don't want 4 Undead DLC, I don't want 4 Elf DLC, I don't want 4 human DLC. Yes, CA can make them different from each other but they still come from the same core idea. They're still part of the same group. While individually they may be good the lack of variety hurts them. Think of it this way, I love Thai food, I could eat at four different Thai places all with their own menus, styles, and decor, but that would be boring, I'd rather eat at a Thai place, then A Mexican, then an Australian, and finally a Korean. That's much more appetizing to me because it offers much more variety because they're 4 different ideas. In the same way if we're getting 4 DLC's I'd prefer to get 4 different ideas rather than 4 takes on the same idea which is Monogods.

    Sidenote; we don't even have the VC2 roster yet.
    Oh that's not a lie c'mon.

    Friendly reminder that Vamps Coast is was on the top of Global Steam's top sellers with just a trailer.
    Beastmen: where is the love?


  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Posts: 485Registered Users

    @Petromir That's wrong. There was a time they were one book, 5th ed. That time has long since passed. Demons are 1 book and expressly designed to work together. It's been like that since 6th ed.

    Yes, but it's undeniable that the evolution of armybooks has been alwais divergent .. in 4th edition, Undeads were a single race (TK + VC units, Settra +Vlad +Nagash etc...). In fifth ed. we had TK and VC as separate factions, CA brought that to the next level bringin' also ZP, so from one race, the former Undead, we have TK+VC+ZP (and there is still room for Nagash, Neferata, other bloodlines etc.. ).
    Chaos was born as a single faction at first, but in later editions they diverged into WoC, BM, DoC. In Age of Sigmar, alongside the new versions of WoC & BM, DoC is again splitted in 4 monogods races..

    TL;DR Monogods are the future...
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 13,409Registered Users
    Ludbone said:

    Ludbone said:

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Still thinking that Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle will be all the same thing when CA literally pulled a "b/tch please" with Vampire Coast, Norsca and their rosters? :D

    I know you are against Chaos but this is just denying the truth.
    The claim that I am against Chaos is a lie.

    We don't even have the VC2 roster yet. The four colours of Demons are four of the same thing. I don't want 4 Undead DLC, I don't want 4 Elf DLC, I don't want 4 human DLC. Yes, CA can make them different from each other but they still come from the same core idea. They're still part of the same group. While individually they may be good the lack of variety hurts them. Think of it this way, I love Thai food, I could eat at four different Thai places all with their own menus, styles, and decor, but that would be boring, I'd rather eat at a Thai place, then A Mexican, then an Australian, and finally a Korean. That's much more appetizing to me because it offers much more variety because they're 4 different ideas. In the same way if we're getting 4 DLC's I'd prefer to get 4 different ideas rather than 4 takes on the same idea which is Monogods.

    Sidenote; we don't even have the VC2 roster yet.
    Oh that's not a lie c'mon.

    Friendly reminder that Vamps Coast is was on the top of Global Steam's top sellers with just a trailer.
    It is a lie. It's also an unprovoked personal attack against myself. Personal attacks have no place on this forum. Given I am the only one with access to my thoughts you can't dispute that unless you have the ability to read my mind, in which case a) Get out and b) I hope you're well hidden from all the groups looking to use you. What people mean when they say that is "You don't share my specific vision of how Chaos should be implemented" which is correct. I don't.

    How well VC2 does either in sales or in ratings doesn't change my point. My point being; The four colours of Demons are four of the same thing. I don't want 4 Undead DLC, I don't want 4 Elf DLC, I don't want 4 human DLC. Yes, CA can make them different from each other but they still come from the same core idea. They're still part of the same group. While individually they may be good the lack of variety hurts them. Think of it this way, I love Thai food, I could eat at four different Thai places all with their own menus, styles, and decor, but that would be boring, I'd rather eat at a Thai place, then A Mexican, then an Australian, and finally a Korean. That's much more appetizing to me because it offers much more variety because they're 4 different ideas. In the same way if we're getting 4 DLC's I'd prefer to get 4 different ideas rather than 4 takes on the same idea which is Monogods.

    As you can see my point isn't that "it won't do well in sales/ratings" it's that "I want variety".
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Posts: 2,149Registered Users

    @Petromir That's wrong. There was a time they were one book, 5th ed. That time has long since passed. Demons are 1 book and expressly designed to work together. It's been like that since 6th ed.

    No its not, the rule was created after the split, certainly in 6th edition which I have Beastmen book in front of me now, there couldn't be a rule allowing you to mix books when there was only 1 could there now?

    The 6th ed rules allowed you to mix the 3 books pretty freeely, with the Generals mark being the most important limit on what you could take. Unlike allies or similar this was a base rule and didn't require opponent consent.

    (though a quick look online suggests post 6th ed might be the point they stopped that).
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 4,886Registered Users
    I think there's two reasons while Vampire Pirates are a false analogy here:

    The first is that there is a clear distinction between VP and VC, acronym shenanigans aside: VP have guns. Enough guns to make an NRA representative smile, cannons, and what looks like the biggest artillery piece we've yet seen in the trailer. VC, by contrast, have almost no ranged capability at all. This distinction, and whatever it is that VP give up that will balance out having a viable ranged capability, means that the tactics you'd use with VPs are likely to be very different than for VCs.

    How they'd be distinct from TKs is less clear, but we haven't seen the VP army lists. Preliminary speculation is that they're missing cavalry or cavalry-equivalent monsters, which would make them dwarf-like, and distinct from the TK chariots and cavalry. We'll see. Possibly tomorrow.

    Chaos denominations don't have this. They all follow the same broad formula: token ranged, but mostly it's about getting to grips with the enemy as quickly as possible. Tzeentch may be an exception to this rule, depending on how Horrors are implemented, but that's about it.

    The second distinction is this:

    We didn't get four undead all at once.

    VC were available at release. TK were at the start of the year, and we have VP now. Apart from VC, each of these are DLC targeted at existing players who already have the TWW2 races at the very least, rather than being combined as a standalone game which is expected to be attractive to potential new players (for whom variety among the initial races available will be an advantage). The closest we've had is getting two Elf factions in TWW2, and that's still only half of the offerings (and, I think, less than half of the budget).

    It's not about whether it can be done. It's about whether putting four fairly similar races together in an offering that's at least in theory intended to be attractive to players new to the franchise is in any way a good idea.

    (And that's without considering the fact that new players tend to gravitate to relatively conventional races, with balanced lists and not too many complex mechanics, to get their feet with. Chaos groupings should not classify as "balanced" or "lacking in complex mechanics".)
  • KronusXKronusX Posts: 1,342Registered Users
    Ludbone said:

    Ludbone said:

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Still thinking that Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle will be all the same thing when CA literally pulled a "b/tch please" with Vampire Coast, Norsca and their rosters? :D

    I know you are against Chaos but this is just denying the truth.
    The claim that I am against Chaos is a lie.

    We don't even have the VC2 roster yet. The four colours of Demons are four of the same thing. I don't want 4 Undead DLC, I don't want 4 Elf DLC, I don't want 4 human DLC. Yes, CA can make them different from each other but they still come from the same core idea. They're still part of the same group. While individually they may be good the lack of variety hurts them. Think of it this way, I love Thai food, I could eat at four different Thai places all with their own menus, styles, and decor, but that would be boring, I'd rather eat at a Thai place, then A Mexican, then an Australian, and finally a Korean. That's much more appetizing to me because it offers much more variety because they're 4 different ideas. In the same way if we're getting 4 DLC's I'd prefer to get 4 different ideas rather than 4 takes on the same idea which is Monogods.

    Sidenote; we don't even have the VC2 roster yet.
    Oh that's not a lie c'mon.

    Friendly reminder that Vamps Coast is was on the top of Global Steam's top sellers with just a trailer.
    Friendly reminder that using logic helps when making arguments. VP is a DLC, not a standalone, you are asking for a standalone that would take 2-3 years to create to be sold with Chaos only. Take 10 minutes to re-think why it would be a stupid idea so you do not come back and heard a 'I told you so''.

    Business-wise launching a $60 tag game with demons only is a horrible idea. VP may not necessary be accepted but it's a DLC, which is a huge difference In case you do not know what a DLC is, I've posted the definition for you just above.

    ''Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game. It is distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. ''

    Now if you left your Chaos bias aside and thought about it in a subjective manner, you will finally understand why 4 Chaos factions at launch is the worst idea ever.
  • steph74steph74 Junior Member Posts: 638Registered Users
    It is not the worst idea ever. Here is a worse one: make a game with only one race and one faction at start.

    At least it would greatly reduce the time between two turns.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 6,475Registered Users
    Valkaar said:

    I don't think the main argument centers around feasibility, or if it's possible. I think only a vocal handful have argued against it being logistically possible.

    I think the main argument is whether or not it would be a smart business move/appeal to a wider player-base than only having 1 Daemon 'race' and have the rest be other things.

    I think ^^this is the major issue.

    Game 3 is likely to see decreased sales in comparison to the previous two titles already due to many other factors. No reason to make that problem worse by making it a 'Chaos only/Chaos majority' game at launch. Chaos 25% at launch is plenty enough to grab the Chaos demographic. Any more than that would be wasteful overkill and would deter a potential market they could have captured by adding anything else.

    The MOST I could see them doing to appease Chaos fans (that wouldn't incur too much backlash from non-Chaos fans) is to launch Daemons as one race, but 4 LL at the very beginning instead of 2, and maybe giving each LL a unique unit or two similar to how each Roman family in Rome 1 had unique units although mostly shared the same 'Roman' roster. But even this ^^ I think is a stretch. Again, not from a technical or design stand point....but just as an issue of pragmatic financial decision making.

    This
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Posts: 1,665Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    Petromir said:

    @Petromir That's wrong. There was a time they were one book, 5th ed. That time has long since passed. Demons are 1 book and expressly designed to work together. It's been like that since 6th ed.

    (though a quick look online suggests post 6th ed might be the point they stopped that).
    Good rules, logical sense and profit from WHFB; other things GW stopped making after 6th ed.

    Come on! Discard WoC (or count it as a Lord pack) and split Chaos into four unique flavours please. CotVC is showing the audience is there, wanting as in depth game world as possible.
  • LudboneLudbone Posts: 1,039Registered Users
    KronusX said:

    Ludbone said:

    Ludbone said:

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Still thinking that Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle will be all the same thing when CA literally pulled a "b/tch please" with Vampire Coast, Norsca and their rosters? :D

    I know you are against Chaos but this is just denying the truth.
    The claim that I am against Chaos is a lie.

    We don't even have the VC2 roster yet. The four colours of Demons are four of the same thing. I don't want 4 Undead DLC, I don't want 4 Elf DLC, I don't want 4 human DLC. Yes, CA can make them different from each other but they still come from the same core idea. They're still part of the same group. While individually they may be good the lack of variety hurts them. Think of it this way, I love Thai food, I could eat at four different Thai places all with their own menus, styles, and decor, but that would be boring, I'd rather eat at a Thai place, then A Mexican, then an Australian, and finally a Korean. That's much more appetizing to me because it offers much more variety because they're 4 different ideas. In the same way if we're getting 4 DLC's I'd prefer to get 4 different ideas rather than 4 takes on the same idea which is Monogods.

    Sidenote; we don't even have the VC2 roster yet.
    Oh that's not a lie c'mon.

    Friendly reminder that Vamps Coast is was on the top of Global Steam's top sellers with just a trailer.
    Friendly reminder that using logic helps when making arguments. VP is a DLC, not a standalone, you are asking for a standalone that would take 2-3 years to create to be sold with Chaos only. Take 10 minutes to re-think why it would be a stupid idea so you do not come back and heard a 'I told you so''.

    Business-wise launching a $60 tag game with demons only is a horrible idea. VP may not necessary be accepted but it's a DLC, which is a huge difference In case you do not know what a DLC is, I've posted the definition for you just above.

    ''Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game. It is distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. ''

    Now if you left your Chaos bias aside and thought about it in a subjective manner, you will finally understand why 4 Chaos factions at launch is the worst idea ever.
    Friendly reminder that i never said 4 Chaos Factions have to be core. Don't put words in my mouth, please.

    1 Core + 3 DLC. . . 2 Core + 2 DLC or all 4 as DLC.

    Now if you left your bias against Monogods aside. . . thanks.

    The point about Vamps Coast is that it's a already a top seller with just a trailer even if it's another Undead Faction. Global.
    Beastmen: where is the love?


  • Surge_2Surge_2 Posts: 1,596Registered Users

    Petromir said:

    @Petromir That's wrong. There was a time they were one book, 5th ed. That time has long since passed. Demons are 1 book and expressly designed to work together. It's been like that since 6th ed.

    (though a quick look online suggests post 6th ed might be the point they stopped that).
    Good rules, logical sense and profit from WHFB; other things GW stopped making after 6th ed.

    Come on! Discard WoC (or count it as a Lord pack) and split Chaos into four unique flavours please. CotVC is showing the audience is there, wanting as in depth game world as possible.
    No, I dont understand how this is difficult but you dont ruin what we had as Armies in 8th, instead add those Mono-God legions on TOP of what we had in 8th.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,521Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Draxynnic said:

    *sigh* It'd been a while since someone stirred this argument up again...

    Technically, it's feasible, as long as you're looking at mixed mortal+demon monogod rather than pure demon lists. But from a business perspective, it isn't a good idea. Not everyone is a Chaos fan, and despite the differences between the gods in flavour, each god's armies (especially if you include warriors rather than pure demon) have the same basic format: tough melee infantry, cavalry, and monsters, not much ranged. The biggest difference is Khorne going "no magic" and Tzeentch going "all of the magic, please".

    I'm aware of the datamine, but something that the people pointing at the datamine always miss is that the datamine also labels Games 2 and 3 as Expansion 1 and 2. You could probably get away with a wholly Chaos-themed expansion. at $30-$40, and with an expansion you're not trying to bring in people who don't already have the game, so lacking a more 'normal' faction (Empire and High Elves are the most played factions in TWW1 and TWW2 respectively, after all) isn't an issue. For a full-priced standalone game, though, the economics and expectations are going to be different.

    Honestly, the OP feels like a classic strawman. It lines up the easiest arguments to shoot down, while completely ignoring the real points made by the other side.

    And yet I find Kislev a faction previously not even going to be in the series at all and a minor faction something that's not going to be a launch faction. Not to say it can't be a fleshed out race that is fun but that's quite a jump that a lot of the other side hinges on. Or some funky half daemons here, half later and other very creative things. Nor does it mean the one side is ignoring those points sometimes they simply disagree. There was quite a chunk that said a Vampire coast dlc wouldn't sell way back when we were talking about what might. They said it was one of the ones that couldnt' be and that it certainly couldn't be 4 LL and then what happened?

    So you have to come in and try to downplay all that CA can do while ignoring all that they've done with like factions. Norsca compared to WoC or now ZP compared to VC. Which all could have been extremely like the factions they could just have easily been minor subfactions for but they took it to the wonderful next level. So I find the mundane this is how it would go faulty given the current evidence that's out there. Oh Khorne would just be no magic, that's it. CA would dream up nothing else especially seeing they now have any and every army book to pull from, all white dwarfs, all other expanded books, other games under GW's belt for the WFB world, and novels. You have a myriad buffet of inspiration, but oh, that's all we're going to do just doesn't cut it as a logic point anymore.
    *sigh*

    Considering that a) I was often arguing against the people who said that Vampire Coast was unfeasible, and b) even here I stated that monogods are technically feasible, your shot falls way short of the mark.

    I'm broad-brushing here because I really don't have time to go into deep detail, but the fact is that all Chaos denominations have the same broad style: primarily composed of melee bruisers that just want to get into melee, token if any missile support, and strong magic. Khorne's lack of magic and Tzeentch's magic focus (which, incidentally, means that Tzeentch armies are likely to have more ranged capabilities than other Chaos armies, even if it's magical in origin) are, realistically, the biggest distinctions between them in terms of how you'd use them: the Khorne army as no magical support (obviously) and the Tzeentch army is the only one where you might realistically be able to employ a stand-off strategy. That doesn't mean that there aren't other distinctions - Slaanesh being faster, Nurgle being slow but tough, and so on - but from a gameplay perspective, that's probably the biggest distinction.

    A game with the four Chaos gods as the races would be like a game which is four different delineations of Elves... except they're all evil from the perspective of a casual onlooker*. Or, considering that you brought up VP, a game which is four different delineations of undead. Great if that's a concept you're in love with, but if not, it doesn't really have a lot to offer. If anything, it's worse than these possibilities, since elves, TKs, and VPs still have balanced lists offering the potential for using various tactics, while Chaos armies are largely limited to melee-focused tactics.

    Putting out monogod lists as DLC? Sure! I'm sceptical that there's material to do so as purely demonic lists, but I don't think that's what most people are after anyway.

    But if game 3 is a Chaos-exclusive, then I can see most people who aren't at least Chaos-curious (and even some of those) giving it a hard pass.

    *Because I do not have the time or the patience right now for this to turn into an "are Chaos really technically evil" debate.
    I'm quite well aware but we can zip right back to Warriors of Chaos and Norsca which have the theme sets of which you talk about. They should have had about zero distinction. Hello, we're both horde armies that exalt the same gods and we've both come to kill you in the name of Chaos, and heck we mostly pal around in the same region, and Warriors of Chaos frequently just recruit from the Norscan tribes. By every point above this faction still should just simply not exist. It's not distinct enough, it will just be a bunch of melee horde guys. Evidence right in front of you and you chant an old hat debate.

    That's my point, not are they evil, or what not. That you're still 'broad brushing' to call them to similar and done. They'll play all one trick pony and that's all we got. Yet Norsca did just fine, and now Vampire Coast is about to bust out more original and accepted. Your own debate points that said that the Vampire Coast was viable here are used to support monogods.

    And while I one can argue that we've had to much undead in a row here with Tomb Kings then following Vampire Counts few are complaining of the quality of the dlc itself, and the sales are showing that doesn't seem to matter all that much.

    But go on, keep pulling the melee focus only point out of your hat after seeing Vampire Coast or Norsca. They have a lot of options especially now that the novels, who have a wide variety of demons, have been opened up to the game. You're artificially limiting yourself in this point when CA is clearly not doing so.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,521Registered Users

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Didn't seem to stop Tomb Kings of Vampire Coast sales now did it? Just the preference you don't want in particular.
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Posts: 1,665Registered Users
    For the record, Tamurkhan campaign; it makes so much sense for Game 3 you'd be amazed.

    a) Main protagonists are Nurgle, Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs

    b) It's a good excuse to revisit The Empire with regional forces and characters

    c) It dips heavily into the Forgeworld elements that recent factions have

    d) It goes back to using properly themed Chaos armies

    e) It was supposed to be the basis originally for a campaign book about the followers of each god

    f) There are also references to Lietpold the Black and occasional mercenaries




    You know it makes sense!
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Posts: 1,596Registered Users
    Yes, the Tamurkhan Campaign makes good sense.

    The 'enemy' will be an updated Warriors of Chaos list.

    The 'revist the Empire' will be Kislev

    Ogres and Chaos Dwarves will do their thing, while the Dwarves will lean on Forge World, the Ogres will use their 8th Edition book.

    Daemons will use their 8th edition book.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 13,409Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    Nyxilis said:

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Didn't seem to stop Tomb Kings of Vampire Coast sales now did it? Just the preference you don't want in particular.
    I'm unsure why you chose to state the obvious, but s'all good.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • OptimisticOptimistic Member Posts: 238Registered Users

    steph74 said:

    I don't see why people want 4 races. Why not one race, with 4 factions, each faction dedicated to a specific god, with its own LL and a few specific units?

    I really don't know. On the TT Demons were expressly designed to work together, far more than even Orcs and Goblins were. They're a chaotic horde, not neatly organized by colour. There's no real basis from the TT to make them separate.

    What you described is what we'll likely get. One race with various stick/carrot incentives.
    This is a fallacy, I don't know why people keep repeating this (emphasis bold). I even quoted and screenshot the relevant rules within the Demons 8th army book in an older post, Demons of one type do NOT receive bonuses from Demons of another type, as a matter of fact, any potential Demon player is hampered in his (or hers) army synergy by bringing different types of Demons.

    The different types of Demons offer different tactical advantages on the battle field, but they do not express benefit each other. Orcs and Gobos, as a counter part, actually receive bonuses off of each other, specifically with goblins benefiting from the presence of Orcs.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,521Registered Users

    Nyxilis said:

    Honestly at this point I'd prefer more interesting DLC than monogods, but if they're going to be in that's the place for them. There simply isn't a place for them as a core race.

    Even as DLC it's meh, four flavours of the same thing. Why?

    Didn't seem to stop Tomb Kings of Vampire Coast sales now did it? Just the preference you don't want in particular.
    I'm unsure why you chose to state the obvious, but s'all good.
    Since a lot of your side of the debate hinges on personal taste, when there are plenty of others who do have that taste and will buy into it.
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