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VCoast not looking so good anymore

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  • NopeacejustwarNopeacejustwar Posts: 852Registered Users
    We haven’t seen the full roster. If indeed saltspite is a LL(which is pretty certain) she may be a hybrid lord like Arkhan and Allarialle. Giving her access to a reskinned free company( pirate looking though) and a few other human units. They may even create(unlikely, but hey, we are speculating) some to fit her pirate theme.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 9,889Registered Users

    We haven’t seen the full roster. If indeed saltspite is a LL(which is pretty certain) she may be a hybrid lord like Arkhan and Allarialle. Giving her access to a reskinned free company( pirate looking though) and a few other human units. They may even create(unlikely, but hey, we are speculating) some to fit her pirate theme.

    sorry, but having Saltspite have access to 3 or 4 Living Human units wouldn't change much, since most of her stuff would sitll be reanimated corpses.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 1,992Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    They don't have to follow anything, are you even aware of what Dreadfleet and Alliance is? Every character had its own distinct ship and backstory and had their own reasons to be for either side. It was explained several times why undead Skaven is there and why he makes sense. Undead skaven units aren't even a problem with his crew and Nagash lore material and it could easily be made like those extra units for Alith or Arkhan.



    Now compare this to forced Aranessa and no-names/made up characters.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • NopeacejustwarNopeacejustwar Posts: 852Registered Users

    We haven’t seen the full roster. If indeed saltspite is a LL(which is pretty certain) she may be a hybrid lord like Arkhan and Allarialle. Giving her access to a reskinned free company( pirate looking though) and a few other human units. They may even create(unlikely, but hey, we are speculating) some to fit her pirate theme.

    sorry, but having Saltspite have access to 3 or 4 Living Human units wouldn't change much, since most of her stuff would sitll be reanimated corpses.
    Yeah true. They will probably just say Harkon gave her the blood kiss after capturing her in battle, and now she is **** and wants revenge or some ****, deal with it.
  • SchwarzhelmSchwarzhelm Posts: 776Registered Users

    We haven’t seen the full roster. If indeed saltspite is a LL(which is pretty certain) she may be a hybrid lord like Arkhan and Allarialle. Giving her access to a reskinned free company( pirate looking though) and a few other human units. They may even create(unlikely, but hey, we are speculating) some to fit her pirate theme.

    sorry, but having Saltspite have access to 3 or 4 Living Human units wouldn't change much, since most of her stuff would sitll be reanimated corpses.
    Yeah true. They will probably just say Harkon gave her the blood kiss after capturing her in battle, and now she is **** and wants revenge or some ****, deal with it.
    Which will be a terrible decision.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 9,889Registered Users

    We haven’t seen the full roster. If indeed saltspite is a LL(which is pretty certain) she may be a hybrid lord like Arkhan and Allarialle. Giving her access to a reskinned free company( pirate looking though) and a few other human units. They may even create(unlikely, but hey, we are speculating) some to fit her pirate theme.

    sorry, but having Saltspite have access to 3 or 4 Living Human units wouldn't change much, since most of her stuff would sitll be reanimated corpses.
    Yeah true. They will probably just say Harkon gave her the blood kiss after capturing her in battle, and now she is **** and wants revenge or some ****, deal with it.
    "deal with it". Nope. I will complain about it. Just as i want Boris and the Ar-Ulric and ap roper middenheim, and Marius Leitdorf. As i complain about the lack of the "big" ROR for the Empire, VC, Dwarfs and Greenskins due to their ROR being too bound by their Lord Pack themes.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,809Registered Users
    We haven't seen Noctilus' campaign mechanics yet. Maybe his Dreadfleet underlings will show up there?
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    They don't have to follow anything, are you even aware of what Dreadfleet and Alliance is? Every character had its own distinct ship and backstory and had their own reasons to be for either side. It was explained several times why undead Skaven is there and why he makes sense. Undead skaven units aren't even a problem with his crew and Nagash lore material and it could easily be made like those extra units for Alith or Arkhan.



    Now compare this to forced Aranessa and no-names/made up characters.
    first of all you trash mob, i have talked more about dreadfleet before you even read its wiki.

    2nd: dreadfleet had to 2 alliances, compose of DIFFERENT RACES fighting against each other.

    Thats the whole point of the set up...
    that one must explain this is unbelievable.

    If skretch should come he should be a Skaven LL. Let him have a special undead quirk or 2, but he belogns to the SKAVEN.
    Because he is a SKAVEN.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.
    There's the Cursed Company.


    wasn't that a DoW unit?

    (and also a bit outdated at this point)
    Sure it was a DoW unit, but that's not the question here is it? You suggested that GW have never made any non-human undead and here as clear as day is a refutation of that claim.

    And outdated compared to what? The Vampire Coast list comes from 6th edition same as the Cursed Company.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • vintagepurplevintagepurple Posts: 708Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    Oh thank god more CHUDs writing screeds about WYMYN in my VIDEO GAMES DAMN YOU CA

    This is just what I wanted after the Rome thing

    Your view of the DLC changed because you saw a lady. Seriously dude.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users
    ben8vtedu said:

    SiWI said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.
    There's the Cursed Company.


    wasn't that a DoW unit?

    (and also a bit outdated at this point)
    Sure it was a DoW unit, but that's not the question here is it? You suggested that GW have never made any non-human undead and here as clear as day is a refutation of that claim.

    And outdated compared to what? The Vampire Coast list comes from 6th edition same as the Cursed Company.
    Well the point is that it doesn't have much to do with ZP and didn't that unit had a special curse so that it had different kinds of undead? Also I was under the impression, base on the models shown that it was 5th not 6th edition.

    As for my orginal statement:
    they never seriously pursued non human undead.

    They one unit/model box for it and thats it.
    Otherwise, they simply didn't bother for one reason or another.
    I mean go ahead and show me the pictures of non humans undead in the armybooks of the VC or in the WD list for the ZP. Pretty sure that thats, besides the monsters obviously, all humans.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users

    Oh thank god more CHUDs writing screeds about WYMYN in my VIDEO GAMES DAMN YOU CA

    This is just what I wanted after the Rome thing

    Your view of the DLC changed because you saw a lady. Seriously dude.

    TWO LADIES!

    Okay one isn't sure to be a LADY but it could be a LADY!
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,006Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.

    Actually, GW's reasoning for that was cost for in the lore Vampire Counts raised countless skaven in their siege against them and they would have been present in their zombie forces. One appeal of the RoR for the Dogs of War is they did have an undead unit that was multiple races risen.
  • tyrannustyrannus Posts: 922Registered Users
    edited October 2018

    Oh thank god more CHUDs writing screeds about WYMYN in my VIDEO GAMES DAMN YOU CA

    This is just what I wanted after the Rome thing

    Your view of the DLC changed because you saw a lady. Seriously dude.

    Nobody is against women here. People are against adding z tier characters. There are a lot of much more interesting and important female characters that are still not in the game(especially Lucrezzia Belladona of course).

    Believe in humanity!
  • NopeacejustwarNopeacejustwar Posts: 852Registered Users

    We haven’t seen the full roster. If indeed saltspite is a LL(which is pretty certain) she may be a hybrid lord like Arkhan and Allarialle. Giving her access to a reskinned free company( pirate looking though) and a few other human units. They may even create(unlikely, but hey, we are speculating) some to fit her pirate theme.

    sorry, but having Saltspite have access to 3 or 4 Living Human units wouldn't change much, since most of her stuff would sitll be reanimated corpses.
    Yeah true. They will probably just say Harkon gave her the blood kiss after capturing her in battle, and now she is **** and wants revenge or some ****, deal with it.
    "deal with it". Nope. I will complain about it. Just as i want Boris and the Ar-Ulric and ap roper middenheim, and Marius Leitdorf. As i complain about the lack of the "big" ROR for the Empire, VC, Dwarfs and Greenskins due to their ROR being too bound by their Lord Pack themes.
    I share many of your complaints especially about the Empire, which is urgh compared to nearly every other race. I know little of Saltspite so I can’t be annoyed about someone I know nothing about. But get why it doesn’t fit thematically or Lorewise.
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 1,992Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    They don't have to follow anything, are you even aware of what Dreadfleet and Alliance is? Every character had its own distinct ship and backstory and had their own reasons to be for either side. It was explained several times why undead Skaven is there and why he makes sense. Undead skaven units aren't even a problem with his crew and Nagash lore material and it could easily be made like those extra units for Alith or Arkhan.



    Now compare this to forced Aranessa and no-names/made up characters.
    first of all you trash mob, i have talked more about dreadfleet before you even read its wiki.

    2nd: dreadfleet had to 2 alliances, compose of DIFFERENT RACES fighting against each other.

    Thats the whole point of the set up...
    that one must explain this is unbelievable.

    If skretch should come he should be a Skaven LL. Let him have a special undead quirk or 2, but he belogns to the SKAVEN.
    Because he is a SKAVEN.
    You really are special, aren't you?

    Skretch is undead because he died and was ressurected as undead. Not to mention undead skaven are cannon and not retconned. Sorry, the voices in your head saying that "it doesn't fit because I said so" aren't an argument when in reality he was an undead under Noctilus command and he was a part of the Dreadfleet, which are the diffirent "bad guys" united, not a "race" really (what time am I explaining this again? Third?).

    Aranessa was a part of Grand Alliance and was a mortal enemy of Dreadfleet. Adding her for VCoast (which is basically Dreadfleet seeing Noctilus in it) is forced and makes as much sense as adding Valten to Warriors of Chaos explaining that he "got corrupted".

    At least get some knowledge before advocating for "CA way" as usial.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,006Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    This is some twisted logic, Skaven wouldn't demand having a skaven army. Zombies are not friends, they're tools. Fodder to throw at your enemy and even amongst skaven slaves there are supposed to be captured humans it just wasn't represented because of the cost of making them that different.

    Also Gorst and Tretch are irrelevant to this conversation. By the time both of them came out you already had the game for most of us. But if you think if CA said if they could go back and time and switch Tretch for another skaven lord many skaven fans wouldn't?
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 9,889Registered Users
    edited October 2018

    Oh thank god more CHUDs writing screeds about WYMYN in my VIDEO GAMES DAMN YOU CA

    This is just what I wanted after the Rome thing

    congratulations on missing the point.

    People are at least worried about Arnessa Saltspite because they want her to be in a HUMAN Pirate faction because she isn't an undead, shouldnt be an undead, and Sartosa also Shouldnt be undead.

    People dislike whoever the other silhouette is because there are LORE characters that could fill the role. And it just gets worse if instead of a thematically fitting Lore or even TT game character to fill the role they dig out a character like the Comtessa at worst and one of the other suggested characters THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PIRACY and are more or less small lore notes.

    Then there is the idea of the character being the "Siren of the Storms", a CA original Syreen LL. Nice idea, but again: the role of an ethereal hero, unless maybe as wizard, could be filled by a Lore and TT character: Captain Varngheist of the Dreadfleet.

    It's about more or less established characters VS Lore (foot) notes and new creations.

    Similiar outcries were raised against Helman Ghorst ("WHO? WHO IS THAT GUY?!? WHY GHORST AND NOT KONRAD? OR ABHORASH? OR NEFERTA?!!"), Tretch Craventrail ("WHY TRETCH AND NOT THANQUOL? IKIT CLAW? THROT?") and Alberic de Bordelaux ("WHY ALBERIC? WHO IS THAT GUY? WHY NOT BOHEMOND THE BEASTSLAYER? OR MALLOBAUDE?").

    It's not really about thse characters women, though itcan be about thembeing added to the roster BECAUSE they are women and therefore are chosen over characters that FIT the the Faction. ZOMBIE PIRATES OF THE VAMPIRE COAST with Dreadfleet elements. Arnessa Saltspite was neither a Zombie nor a vampire. But it seems she turns either into a Vampre or gets nectromantic abiliteis.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • tyrannustyrannus Posts: 922Registered Users
    edited October 2018

    Oh thank god more CHUDs writing screeds about WYMYN in my VIDEO GAMES DAMN YOU CA

    This is just what I wanted after the Rome thing

    congratulations on missing the point.

    People are at least worried about Arnessa Saltspite because they want her to be in a HUMAN Pirate faction because she isn't an undead, shouldnt be an undead, and Sartosa also Shouldnt be undead.

    People dislike whoever the other silhouette is because there are LORE characters that could fill the role. And it just gets worse if instead of a thematically fitting Lore or even TT game character to fill the role they dig out a character like the Comtessa at worst and one of the other suggested characters THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PIRACY and are more or less small lore notes.

    Then there is the idea of the character being the "Siren of the Storms", a CA original Syreen LL. Nice idea, but again: the role of an ethereal hero, unless maybe as wizard, could be filled by a Lore and TT character: Captain Varngheist of the Dreadfleet.

    It's about more or less established characters VS Lore (foot) notes and new creations.

    Similiar outcries were raised against Helman Ghorst ("WHY GHORST AND NOT KONRAD? OR ABHORASH?!"), Tretch Craventrail ("WHY TRETCH AND NOT THANQUOL? IKIT CLAW? THROT?") and Alberic de Bordelaux ("WHY ALBERIC? WHO IS THAT GUY? WHY NOT BOHEMOND THE BEASTSLAYER? OR MALLOBAUDE?").

    It's not really about thse characters women, though itcan be about thembeing added to the roster BECAUSE they are women and therefore are chosen over characters that FIT the the Faction. ZOMBIE PIRATES OF THE VAMPIRE COAST with Dreadfleet elements. Arnessa Saltspite was neither a Zombie nor a vampire. But it seems she turns either into a Vampre or gets nectromantic abiliteis.
    Comtessa makes Ghorst and Alberic look like mighty lore defying epic heroes. It's like if they added Bruno the champion to empire.

    Believe in humanity!
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,117Registered Users
    I've got an idea, let's see who it is before crying.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users
    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    They don't have to follow anything, are you even aware of what Dreadfleet and Alliance is? Every character had its own distinct ship and backstory and had their own reasons to be for either side. It was explained several times why undead Skaven is there and why he makes sense. Undead skaven units aren't even a problem with his crew and Nagash lore material and it could easily be made like those extra units for Alith or Arkhan.



    Now compare this to forced Aranessa and no-names/made up characters.
    first of all you trash mob, i have talked more about dreadfleet before you even read its wiki.

    2nd: dreadfleet had to 2 alliances, compose of DIFFERENT RACES fighting against each other.

    Thats the whole point of the set up...
    that one must explain this is unbelievable.

    If skretch should come he should be a Skaven LL. Let him have a special undead quirk or 2, but he belogns to the SKAVEN.
    Because he is a SKAVEN.
    You really are special, aren't you?

    Skretch is undead because he died and was ressurected as undead. Not to mention undead skaven are cannon and not retconned. Sorry, the voices in your head saying that "it doesn't fit because I said so" aren't an argument when in reality he was an undead under Noctilus command and he was a part of the Dreadfleet, which are the diffirent "bad guys" united, not a "race" really (what time am I explaining this again? Third?).

    Aranessa was a part of Grand Alliance and was a mortal enemy of Dreadfleet. Adding her for VCoast (which is basically Dreadfleet seeing Noctilus in it) is forced and makes as much sense as adding Valten to Warriors of Chaos explaining that he "got corrupted".

    At least get some knowledge before advocating for "CA way" as usial.
    funny enough, it seems you want it to have it your way but CA doesn't. So its bit ironic that you accuse me of "being special" while you complain that you fan fic isn't come true while "mine" is.
    Which is to be noted, GW way, since they have given CA the green light for this.

    Notice by the way how I didn't talked much about Aranessa?
    Simply because I don't have strong opinions on her.
    I can see the annoyance of switching sides with her, but becoming a vampire after dreadfleet events isn't that weird of a turn of events and would set up a story arc which could be interesting.
    Hence I didn't talked much about her.

    I just object to a skaven being added to the ZP.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,809Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    SiWI said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.
    There's the Cursed Company.


    wasn't that a DoW unit?

    (and also a bit outdated at this point)
    Sure it was a DoW unit, but that's not the question here is it? You suggested that GW have never made any non-human undead and here as clear as day is a refutation of that claim.

    And outdated compared to what? The Vampire Coast list comes from 6th edition same as the Cursed Company.
    Well the point is that it doesn't have much to do with ZP and didn't that unit had a special curse so that it had different kinds of undead? Also I was under the impression, base on the models shown that it was 5th not 6th edition.

    As for my orginal statement:
    they never seriously pursued non human undead.

    They one unit/model box for it and thats it.
    Otherwise, they simply didn't bother for one reason or another.
    I mean go ahead and show me the pictures of non humans undead in the armybooks of the VC or in the WD list for the ZP. Pretty sure that thats, besides the monsters obviously, all humans.
    It was always in the fluff that skeletons and zombies of nonhuman races could be made. The main undead factions with TT representation, though, were drawing from something like 95% human material. Nonhuman races also don't have the drive to achieve eternal (un)life through necromancy: elves die when tired of life, dwarfs don't use magic, skaven have skalm, greenskins don't generally think that far ahead and are possibly immortal-unless-killed anyway, and so on.

    But pretty much any corpse can be animated if a necromancer is determined enough.
  • Horus38Horus38 Posts: 924Registered Users

    I've got an idea, let's see who it is before crying.

    Lol, yea, pretty much this ^
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users
    Nyxilis said:

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    This is some twisted logic, Skaven wouldn't demand having a skaven army. Zombies are not friends, they're tools. Fodder to throw at your enemy and even amongst skaven slaves there are supposed to be captured humans it just wasn't represented because of the cost of making them that different.

    Also Gorst and Tretch are irrelevant to this conversation. By the time both of them came out you already had the game for most of us. But if you think if CA said if they could go back and time and switch Tretch for another skaven lord many skaven fans wouldn't?
    Well first, a single undead skaven would be a bit odd, wouldn't it.

    Unless he was always alone, which is bit unlikely given that he is a skaven.

    Also can you read the comments I reply to?
    He brought up Ghorst and Tretch, not me.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users

    I've got an idea, let's see who it is before crying.

    That's not really necessary, we can already see who it's not and that's cause enough for concern since literally anyone else would be less worthy of inclusion.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    SiWI said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    SiWI said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.
    There's the Cursed Company.


    wasn't that a DoW unit?

    (and also a bit outdated at this point)
    Sure it was a DoW unit, but that's not the question here is it? You suggested that GW have never made any non-human undead and here as clear as day is a refutation of that claim.

    And outdated compared to what? The Vampire Coast list comes from 6th edition same as the Cursed Company.
    Well the point is that it doesn't have much to do with ZP and didn't that unit had a special curse so that it had different kinds of undead? Also I was under the impression, base on the models shown that it was 5th not 6th edition.

    As for my orginal statement:
    they never seriously pursued non human undead.

    They one unit/model box for it and thats it.
    Otherwise, they simply didn't bother for one reason or another.
    I mean go ahead and show me the pictures of non humans undead in the armybooks of the VC or in the WD list for the ZP. Pretty sure that thats, besides the monsters obviously, all humans.
    It was always in the fluff that skeletons and zombies of nonhuman races could be made. The main undead factions with TT representation, though, were drawing from something like 95% human material. Nonhuman races also don't have the drive to achieve eternal (un)life through necromancy: elves die when tired of life, dwarfs don't use magic, skaven have skalm, greenskins don't generally think that far ahead and are possibly immortal-unless-killed anyway, and so on.

    But pretty much any corpse can be animated if a necromancer is determined enough.
    i know that but I also know that it usually is avoided because it is to bothersome for most.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • Lord_KamionLord_Kamion Posts: 957Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    They don't have to follow anything, are you even aware of what Dreadfleet and Alliance is? Every character had its own distinct ship and backstory and had their own reasons to be for either side. It was explained several times why undead Skaven is there and why he makes sense. Undead skaven units aren't even a problem with his crew and Nagash lore material and it could easily be made like those extra units for Alith or Arkhan.



    Now compare this to forced Aranessa and no-names/made up characters.
    first of all you trash mob, i have talked more about dreadfleet before you even read its wiki.

    2nd: dreadfleet had to 2 alliances, compose of DIFFERENT RACES fighting against each other.

    Thats the whole point of the set up...
    that one must explain this is unbelievable.

    If skretch should come he should be a Skaven LL. Let him have a special undead quirk or 2, but he belogns to the SKAVEN.
    Because he is a SKAVEN.
    By that logic Harkon is human. He would fit perfectly with Vamp Coast
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Posts: 2,591Registered Users
    O the injustice! O the inhumanity! O the tragedy of outrageous fortune! Curse your cruel black hearts, CA! Vie, Vie, Vie! Never shall we forget this bleak hour! One day, in a better world when the beleaguered, downtrodden sex of men has cast of its shackles of subjugation and restored itself from ignominious bondage, we shall have vengeance! Mark my words! You have been warned, CA! Your transgressions towards us shall be repaid tenfold!

    I mean really!? Replacing a couple of insignificant, obscure male characters with slightly more obscure, margainally less significant characters, only to make women feel a bit more included in our man-fun or maybe just for anybody who would appreciate some variety? What kind of Gulag are you running here?

    o___o
    ò_ó
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    Enforest said:

    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

    And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

    Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

    Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
    funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

    But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

    Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.
    SiWI said:

    I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

    even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

    And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

    Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

    People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
    except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

    Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
    Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

    Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

    Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

    They don't have to follow anything, are you even aware of what Dreadfleet and Alliance is? Every character had its own distinct ship and backstory and had their own reasons to be for either side. It was explained several times why undead Skaven is there and why he makes sense. Undead skaven units aren't even a problem with his crew and Nagash lore material and it could easily be made like those extra units for Alith or Arkhan.



    Now compare this to forced Aranessa and no-names/made up characters.
    first of all you trash mob, i have talked more about dreadfleet before you even read its wiki.

    2nd: dreadfleet had to 2 alliances, compose of DIFFERENT RACES fighting against each other.

    Thats the whole point of the set up...
    that one must explain this is unbelievable.

    If skretch should come he should be a Skaven LL. Let him have a special undead quirk or 2, but he belogns to the SKAVEN.
    Because he is a SKAVEN.
    By that logic Harkon is human. He would fit perfectly with Vamp Coast
    given that my logic is that Vampires in warhammer are 17th century humans turned vampires, yeah he fits.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 3,953Registered Users
    The only thing I don't like is two other LL's choice, altough we don't know the last so I will hold it, Aranesa is very odd choice.

    But also from what I've seen Syrens? Are just unit of Banshees with the same model, and Scurvy Dogs are just Dire Wolves.
    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
This discussion has been closed.