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CA pattern with LL in Total War Warhammer II

D3adgodsD3adgods Posts: 62Registered Users
With new factions getting fleshed out with "completed" rosters (4 LL and RoR) and 4 LL promised for each of the starting factions; I've noticed a trend with the available Lords that shows a clear design path in terms of gameplay differences between each. Looking at how it relates to each faction and can help predict possible LL in the future.

Each faction seems to be built around having different roles being filled by 3 of the LL and a fourth that is similar to another with a few changes.

In the case of the High Elves we have:
A pure melee lord, a dedicated caster, and a ranged sniper/assassin. The fourth lord is another caster that focuses on supporting magic rather than offense.

The Tomb Kings have: a full caster, an assassin, and 2 hybrid lords that buff different aspects of their own army.

Using this idea that each lord should vary somewhat from each other, we can predict other factions such as the Dark Elves FLC Lord: we have a hybrid lord, a caster, and an anti infantry blender. If the fourth lord is Lohkir Fellheart using vampire coast mechanics, he would fit as an assassin.

If we take what we know and apply this logic to the vampire coast, so far we have: a melee/ranged specialist, a (supposed) hybrid lord, and Saltspyte is most likely a assassin or anti infantry. The fourth lord would most likely be a full caster to round out the rest. Based on the silhouette I believe they are a syreen lord with the new lore of the depths and the syreen heroes have become casters as well while the melee variant is now just a unit.

Sorry for the long read, have an imaginary cookie.

Comments

  • Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Posts: 1,474Registered Users
    I thought this was quite obvious already?
    How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

    Also, please slow down combat!




  • D3adgodsD3adgods Posts: 62Registered Users

    I thought this was quite obvious already?

    You would think, but most arguements for new LL like Drekla and Malus Darkblade dont take into account they would play just like LL that are already on the roster
  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 3,493Registered Users
    I think Felheart is likely more because of the overall theme of the DLC he is coming alongside rather than his overall role. And that last lord has a staff, which tends to mean dedicated caster :tongue:
  • D3adgodsD3adgods Posts: 62Registered Users
    Goatforce said:

    I think Felheart is likely more because of the overall theme of the DLC he is coming alongside rather than his overall role. And that last lord has a staff, which tends to mean dedicated caster :tongue:

    Concerning the last vampire coast lord, if you look at the full silhouette; you can see the end of the staff below the dress and no feet, so unless the staff and outfit clip through the ground, they float!
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Posts: 1,828Registered Users
    I mean it's based off the lore and TT. So not sure what's surprising here?
  • HarkovastHarkovast Posts: 1,689Registered Users
    Pressumably some kind of expert in the lore of the deep?
    For The Lady, for Manann, for Bordeleaux!
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Posts: 8,633Registered Users
    If Saltspire is only just a PIRATE and she qualifies as LL for Vampire Coast race

    Therefore

    Ariel qualifies as LL for DE. She is an "ELF" and that only matters.
  • ptavangarptavangar Posts: 1,148Registered Users
    Ahem! Mr. OP... I take issue with the fact that you say that they are giving us "completed" races. Far from it... only the easy to make ones get "completed" and even then they are usually missing some things (e.g., great stag mount, abyssal terror, coven throne, shieldbearers, etc.).
  • D3adgodsD3adgods Posts: 62Registered Users
    ptavangar said:

    Ahem! Mr. OP... I take issue with the fact that you say that they are giving us "completed" races. Far from it... only the easy to make ones get "completed" and even then they are usually missing some things (e.g., great stag mount, abyssal terror, coven throne, shieldbearers, etc.).

    Sorry, that's why I put the word completed in quotations. In this use of the word I meant factions that had 4 LL and their RoR. Not to imply these factions had all their possible units/lords. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 17,344Registered Users
    They definitely like variation in their LL's. It's a safe bet the next one revealed for VC2 is a caster.
    D3adgods said:

    ptavangar said:

    Ahem! Mr. OP... I take issue with the fact that you say that they are giving us "completed" races. Far from it... only the easy to make ones get "completed" and even then they are usually missing some things (e.g., great stag mount, abyssal terror, coven throne, shieldbearers, etc.).

    Sorry, that's why I put the word completed in quotations. In this use of the word I meant factions that had 4 LL and their RoR. Not to imply these factions had all their possible units/lords. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
    No need, your meaning is perfectly obvious.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Posts: 2,251Registered Users
    The concept is called 'archetypes'.... It is a rather common phenomenon in gaming... You aren't exactly breaking new scientific ground here..
  • Black_PhillipBlack_Phillip Posts: 476Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    D3adgods said:

    ptavangar said:

    Ahem! Mr. OP... I take issue with the fact that you say that they are giving us "completed" races. Far from it... only the easy to make ones get "completed" and even then they are usually missing some things (e.g., great stag mount, abyssal terror, coven throne, shieldbearers, etc.).

    Sorry, that's why I put the word completed in quotations. In this use of the word I meant factions that had 4 LL and their RoR. Not to imply these factions had all their possible units/lords. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
    Oh ptvanger understood. He just likes to take any opportunity possible to repeat over and over again how he thinks CA is lazy for not giving us every unit possible because he has no idea the effort it takes to implement units in this game and thinks CA has unlimited time and resources.
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    The "complete roster" has been a rallying cry for eons now. Nothing to do about it.

    Yes, the patterns is quite clear, and to the horror of some lore fanatics, it makes sense. If you check the army books, they are filled with characters whose TT rules were maybe kinda distinct and more importantly were on a scale, which our LL can't be. We can't have say "KF but less good" or "Leoncoeur, but less good" -> btw this is Alberic and see how popular he is.

    They didn't have this in mind at first but have started implemented it quite well. The TK had enough characters to allow it without hitch, vampire coast have needed a bit more shoehorning, but ut could turn out great. For better of worse, a living duellist vs another vampire melee char is probably more distinct. The caster lady will complete this.

    This is why I was always quite confident about finding LL for Araby. From the sultan to the Golden magus they can pick a game archetype before delving into Lore source to find an approved name (Not that it's really needed, don't tell me Surtha Ek has not earned his legitimacy )
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Posts: 3,964Registered Users
    You have got to be kidding me if you are implying that Hellebron wouldn't be the "Character Killer"/Assassin of the DE. That's literally her role, you are just ignoring that so you can put in Fellheart. I don't get people who think Malus could not be made interesting, he is literally possessed by a Demon, CA is only limited in it's creativity. He would fit as a more tanky lord too, and would probably also be good at killing characters with his Warpsword. Also he would fit as a Cavalry focussed commander and might perhaps make Cold Ones and Dreadknights resistant to rampage(In campaign only of course). Fellheart is no more interesting and unique than Malus. They both have pretty good chances of making it in.
  • D3adgodsD3adgods Posts: 62Registered Users
    Krunch said:

    You have got to be kidding me if you are implying that Hellebron wouldn't be the "Character Killer"/Assassin of the DE. That's literally her role, you are just ignoring that so you can put in Fellheart. I don't get people who think Malus could not be made interesting, he is literally possessed by a Demon, CA is only limited in it's creativity. He would fit as a more tanky lord too, and would probably also be good at killing characters with his Warpsword. Also he would fit as a Cavalry focussed commander and might perhaps make Cold Ones and Dreadknights resistant to rampage(In campaign only of course). Fellheart is no more interesting and unique than Malus. They both have pretty good chances of making it in.

    I'm not implying that, she is not listed as an assassin the same way Queek or Wulfrik are. She was included as an anti infantry Lord but can be used as an assassin in the right match up. I have nothing against Malus, I won't turn my nose up at him if he is added instead of Lokhir. Based on what is being added in this dlc, Lokhir Fellheart seems more likely due to having a named ship and fitting the aesthetic more closely. Getting both would be great in the long run.
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