Another excellent and unexpected DLC from Creative Assembly- thank you

bradleyvincentwells#9754

Just like 'The Queen and the Crone,' CA's follow-up DLC appears to deliver unique and exciting content while also upending expectations. Prior to the announcement for 'Curse of the Vampire Coast,' I was hoping for a lord pack that would introduce Dogs of War solely because I felt a DLC of that kind would spur much-needed upgrades to the Empire faction. It just seemed logical.

Instead, we got Vampire Coast. But, not exactly what we'd expect there either.

As with Queen/Crone, what we're getting with Vamp Coast is much more than could be expected, especially when you look at the lore. My initial expectations were that the Vampire Coast would just function as another Vampire Counts faction. This felt a tad annoying because there is already significant vampire content, to say nothing that it seems the undead outnumber the living in Warhammer: Total War 2. But, in typical CA fashion, they flipped expectations in a very interesting way.

I've played Warhammer Fantasy since 1995. I feel I know the lore. I'd never even heard of 'Dreadfleet' until it was mentioned by CA as inspiration for the Vampire Coast DLC. I got curious and followed up on it. I read some wikis. I watched the lore videos on YouTube, and after a time I was impressed at how the content in Dreadfleet could translate to TW.

Unique ships? Pirate mechanics? Legendary Lords taken directly from Dreadfleet lore? I never would have anticipated or expected something like that in a WH: Total War game. Bravo CA!

And then there is Madame Cylostra Direfin. Of all the content, this one surprised me the most. This is a totally new character; invented for this very game. For the first time in a dog's age, she represents something NEW for the Warhammer Fantasy Universe. I understand that "new" is relative when you consider Age of Sigmar, but I personally don't view AoS as part of Warhammer. The concept and the creation of it still bothers me today. Direfin is something new pre-AoS. She brings with her the possibility that the WH Fantasy universe still has more space to grow. This world in TW:Warhammer isn't some kind of precursor to AoS. It's its own world, free to expand at its own pace. I really love that.

Direfin also opens up the possibility for other new, unique characters to enter the game instead of scraping the bottom of the Warhammer lore barrel and, potentially, fumbling to fit square-peg characters into a universe that doesn't make sense for them. I really applaud Creative Assembly's imagination and the will to try something new. In many ways, the Total War: Warhammer Game universe is a laboratory of experimentation. In just one year, lord packs like Vampire Coast make factions like Empire and Greenskins look generic in comparison. That is because through experimentation, imagination, trial, and error CA has come up with some unique mechanics, game play, and lore.

I always feel it important to encourage CA's imagination. Take chances. Take risks. More often than not, the game itself becomes more unique and more fun as a result. By all means, create more unique characters, starting positions, faction mechanics, and lore.

So, in summary, thank you CA for pushing the envelope and making yet another unique faction.

Thank you for incorporating island fighting at sea so that we no longer need to auto-resolve.

Thank you for a new unique legendary lord like Cylostra Direfin. Please make more like her. Might I suggest a female halfling general riding an armored goat or an African-looking badass with a flaming sword riding a flying horse that shoots lasers from his eyes. The more racial and gender diversity we get in Warhammer, the better. Fans like to see their likeness represented in games.

Thank you for implementing Black Ark land battles, and for providing Lokhir Fellheart as a free LL. The entire Aye-Aye patch reads impressive, and it's great that we get all the new content for free.

Thank you for moving Kemmler to the Grey Mountains. He now finally feels completely realized and unique.

Thank you for the new Bloodlines mechanic for Vampire Counts. Just like CA's re-work for the Dwarves - which was excellent - these changes for Vampire Counts will help get that faction up to the rest of the universe's level.

This all gives me hope for what CA will do to Empire and to Greenskins. Like many others, I ask for Boris and Middenheim. I ask for a unique tribal or WAGGGGHHHH mechanic for Greeskins. I ask for the Gods of Men to function as something similar to Bloodlines, but with the Empire. Knightly factions? Knights of Morr? Knights Panther? Grom the Paunch?

Or, maybe, you just give me something completely new that I didn't expect. Anything is possible.

Bravo!

Rochaid29#5392

start making a list of all the bugs we are gonna get day 1 too

Combat_Wombat

I don't like the Vampires in the slightest so I consider it the worst DLC they've ever had. A matter of perspective I suppose.

Infinite_Maw

Of course I really like the theme and army list of the vampire coast. There are a few issues I have, but otherwise it is a great DLC.

bradleyvincentwells said:

Direfin also opens up the possibility for other new, unique characters to enter the game instead of scraping the bottom of the Warhammer lore barrel and, potentially, fumbling to fit square-peg characters into a universe that doesn't make sense for them. I really applaud Creative Assembly's imagination and the will to try something new. In many ways, the Total War: Warhammer Game universe is a laboratory of experimentation. In just one year, lord packs like Vampire Coast make factions like Empire and Greenskins look generic in comparison. That is because through experimentation, imagination, trial, and error CA has come up with some unique mechanics, game play, and lore.

Thank you for a new unique legendary lord like Cylostra Direfin. Please make more like her. Might I suggest a female halfling general riding an armored goat or an African-looking badass with a flaming sword riding a flying horse that shoots lasers from his eyes. The more racial and gender diversity we get in Warhammer, the better. Fans like to see their likeness represented in games.

New characters are fine, depending on if they don't replace more interesting or roughly equal status characters. Vangheist being replaced by Direfin was fine given that Direfin had better lore and purpose, have ghorst replace someone like Dieter Helsnicht was not so great.

I really, really doubt halfings are going to make a significant contribution, more like one or two units.

Also you have to wait until next year for Araby until you see the Moroccon or Mali like Lord of Hero ride on a radiant Pegasus (and I'm pretty sure that pegasus does not shoot lasers).

Zelnik#5119

NPC post, disregard.

Canuovea#6291

Not sure if sarcastic or...

ptavangar

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

Sbygneus

Ok Harry Porter DLC next!

Combat_Wombat

They wanted to take more time on their DLC to give us better quality content. Quality must mean something different over there I guess?

ptavangar

Combat_Wombat said:

They wanted to take more time on their DLC to give us better quality content. Quality must mean something different over there I guess?

Guess so. The truth is that they know that game 3 is a long way out and there's only so much DLC they can give us before people complain that there's too much paid DLC overall. So they spread it out. Also, they cannibalized the new content team to work on 3K. Btw, they never denied doing so. They keep saying that they have separate teams and I do believe them on that. But what they never deny is that they shifted part of the teams to work on 3K. I believe at least part of the new content team is still working on new content though.

Infinite_Maw

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

It is still far better then grim and the grave. That DLC had no new models apart from a few stationary and unmoving chariot pieces.

Also the doomfire warlocks and sisters of slaughter did have unique idle and attack animations, even if maybe one or two animations were recycled.

TheShiroOfDalton

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

How dare someone like what I don't! How dare someone be positive when my entire purpose here is to create and funnel outrage!

Black_Phillip#5773

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

Doomfire warlocks, sisters of slaughter, and sisters of avelorn were unique models. Stop judging everything based on monsters. Kharybdiss was a reskin but it pretty much is a reskin in TT so it makes sense to be a reskin in game. And creating an original skin also takes weeks it's not as easy as you assume.

Most people look at the dlc as a whole not individual units. Felbats and a dire wolves are minor supporting units so having them copy pasted isn't really a big deal just like harpies.

However the syreens and the sartosa free company look phoned in. It brought down the overall quality. So did importing the terrorgheists. That is not a minor supporting unit. That is a staple of the Vampire Counts.

For some people this isn't a big deal because they feel the positives vastly outweigh the negatives. They look at the product as a whole and on its own rather than meticulously compare it to Tomb Kings. I don't think they're wrong for judging it that way. Not everyone is going to judge things on how many newly animated single entity monster there are. People have their own metrics for measuring value. This shouldn't bother you.

For me I find it a bit worrisome that CA is going down this path. This dlc was so close to being amazing for me. There is still a lot to like but now I'm becoming skeptical about future content. If they had given a better skin for the sartosa free company and syreens, not even a new model and something original in place of the terrorgheists, or even just left them out, I wouldn't have felt this way.

Warlocke

Based off of this and other posts, I don't think ptavangar actually knows what a game model is. Maybe he is thinking of skeletons?

Harkovast#1792

I think this DLC looks great.
Sartosan pirates are a let down but everything else looks good.

People need to lighten up.

TheShiroOfDalton

Warlocke said:

Based off of this and other posts, I don't think ptavangar actually knows what a game model is. Maybe he is thinking of skeletons?

I doubt he cares. It's all for the sake of manufacturing outrage.

Surge_2#1464

I like the Vampire Counts updates, the Island Battles for Sea Fights, and half the Vampire Coast stuff looks amazingly well done.

Ignoring the parts that are a disappointment I dont regret the pre-order at all.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

I never thought Vampire Counts could be anything other than an FLC. CA have done well to exceed expectations.

epic_159856902319aEGoFtU

I agree with the original poster. This DLC far exceeded my expectations.

I was almost certain it was gonna be Dogs of War. If not, then it had to be Araby. But as always, CA are hitting us from left field. When Vampire Coast was announced was surprised but was a little skeptical at first.

How...? How can they work? How are they gonna be fun to play with? How will they add to the richness of the campaign experience?

But the more I saw the more I was impressed and excited.

Add to that the island battles; the Vampire Counts Bloodlines; Lokhir Fellheart and we have a lot of things to look forward to....

And le's not forget; we're only two months away from more lizards and rats coming our way!

PappyTron#8042

Say what you want about the overall pack itself, but Doomfire Warlocks and Sisters of Slaughter are immense, and having Supreme Sorceresses be able to lead armies is brilliant too. Oh, and Hellebron, despite her shaky issues with her aura is a top level lord. The only thing that I dislike about the Hellebron side of the dlc is the Death Night mechanic itself.

Djau#5149

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

You are comparing a full-scale faction from TT, which had a MUCH bigger army list and lore to draw from, to a relatively minor faction with a 'skeleton' list. Of course theres going to seem like theres more unique stuff in the Tomb Kings.

It has 6 variants of zombie pirates because it is a ZOMBIE PIRATE ARMY LIST. Thats the point. Harkon's army list in white dwarf could practically ONLY take zombies!. Does this mean Empire is the same with all the variants it has?

Fell Bats and Terrorgheists they don't really get in the white dwarf army list, and are in to provide a NICHE FUNCTION needed to help the army to function. A fell bat is a fell bat, its not going to look drastically different; same for a terrorgheist, its a specific thing.

You get 4-5 variants of the Gunnery Mob cause its the bread and butter unit you are meant to spam; this is a gunline army. Pick a good mix of the various equipment they have for your horde; take some monsters and polearm units to guard them, and get a Gunnery Wight to support them. Scurvy Dogs and Syreens are exactly the way they were in their white dwarf list, so obeying the TT is bad?

Its a niche army with a niche that it fills well, and is focused on it; the army list is designed for gameplay; not just for new models.

Snoopac

Mhm! I was hoping for Dogs of War but I'm pleasantly surprised by Vampire Coast. I'm not a big Vampire fan but I think this DLC is looking really good so far. There are a couple of flaws in there with the Dire Wolves and such, but they're very minor things.

That said, I find it interesting how many people judge the DLC based on how many monsters it has compared to Tomb Kings (a faction that almost completely relies on monsters to win battles.) or how many re-used skeletons are there. I feel as if these people are going to be sorely disappointed by most future races with the exception of Demons and maybe Ogres. Imagine if Dogs of War was announced? That would almost exclusively use pre-made skeletons. Jesus, the amount of angry posts the forums would have got then.

arcticmandaly

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

Do you have nothing else better to do in your life but sit all day, every day constantly moaning or spewing your negative crap in every thread. You have repeated this same point at least a million times now in last 3 days and im bored of looking at your posts. You proven wrong so many times by other posters that u have no clue about what are reskins or resued used animations.

Sir_Godspeed#8395

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

But the White Lion Chariot is a stupid unit that doesn't make any sense and should never have been created.

GunKing#3555

Zelnik said:

NPC post, disregard.

I admit, I laughed. When I go back and read OP, I think 'tldr; SHUT UP ALREADY AND GIVE ME THE QUEST!' lol

Xenos777

Eh? Queen & Crone had four units total. I don't think anyone expected less than that.

Xenos777

Sir_Godspeed said:

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

But the White Lion Chariot is a stupid unit that doesn't make any sense and should never have been created.

Let's all list one unit we find stupid, then. I sure have some, everybody has some. Then go back to play the game with just spearmen. See, it's a great idea.

Xenos777

Amonkhet said:

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

You are comparing a full-scale faction from TT, which had a MUCH bigger army list and lore to draw from, to a relatively minor faction with a 'skeleton' list. Of course theres going to seem like theres more unique stuff in the Tomb Kings.

I would have to remind you it costs the same.

KronusX

Sir_Godspeed said:

ptavangar said:

It is posts like these that make me cringe. The Q and the C is by far the worst LP to date and this upcoming DLC is certainly not the worst but it is a big step backwards from the TK DLC. People have a tough time looking at these releases in an objective way and accurately comparing them to previous releases. It all comes down to the numbers. If you look past the couple of flashy new units you will see the vast amount of corner cutting in other areas that they are hoping no one will notice.

Q and the C had nice LL's but they were missing most of their magic items (corner cutting). It had only 5 units, none of which had unique models. They could have included the white lion chariot to give us at least one new model but they wanted to make more money (corner cutting). And before someone says it, the Kharibdyss was based entirely on the hydra model and has pretty much identical animations so it does not count.

And then this upcoming DLC is filled to the brim with unit variants (6 freaking variants of zombie prates!) rather than having more unique units with unique models. Only has 2 new big monsters and is of a lower quality overall compared to the TK. Reused way more assets/units than should be acceptable for a 19 dollar campaign pack with no mini campaign (and after a 5 month wait). I mean the list goes on and on. So why are we praising them for cutting corners and giving us less for the same price? Did it occur to anyone that this is the THIRD time we are paying for dire wolves (scurvy dogs) and fell bats btw? Second time we're paying for terrorgheists and banshees (syreens).

But the White Lion Chariot is a stupid unit that doesn't make any sense and should never have been created.

I mean if we go by that, I also believe that cylostra is a stupid LL that doesn't make any sense and should never been created. Opinions are subjective.

On the subject at hand though no, the queen and the crone was extremely weak. It was better than the grim and the grave, but that is a WH1 DLC that took less time to make. As for VP, it will depend on how good are the mechanics.In terms of comparison for TKs and VPs, we need to see what VPs brings extra to the table that adds the additional time (since VPs took longer to get created).

In comparison, people are silly when they compare VP with WE or BM because those are game 1 DLCs with mini-campaigns which took longer.