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Should Glade Guard get 360 degree shooting (or 180 range)?

cool_ladcool_lad Senior MemberIndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
It fits in with the theme of the faction. Glade Guard initially had 360 degree shooting and 160 range, but lost it in return for an extra 10 range. Since that extra 10 range isn't all that special now due to the power creep (HE archers, for instance) should they get the ability to fire all round again? That or an increase to their range to bring them on par with HE archers (especially since the WE are supposed to be the ranged focused elven faction, so it seem really incongruous that their basic archers are worse at shooting and cost more).
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Comments

  • ViktorTWWforumViktorTWWforum Registered Users Posts: 1,116
    Well, WE are already good at kiting but personaly I would like this idea. But I think this can cause some balance problems. It is good t hear some other opinions.
  • ReymReym Registered Users Posts: 572
    They are called deepwood scoots so no need. Unless you like the idea of discount waywatchers.
    But is talking about what is appropriate to talk about in this thread appropriate to be talked about in this thread ?
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,820
    Reym said:

    They are called deepwood scoots so no need. Unless you like the idea of discount waywatchers.

    Right you want a diverse roster not an all elites roster.
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,325
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    Does anyone here remember the original Glade Guard, from back when they were first released in WH1?
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,137
    edited October 2018
    Not 360 even on day 1, they release near xmas period even if they did, it died within a hotfix lol

    Already frikking ridiculous with move and shoot lol 360 will be the end of this game

    At 360 u be looking at price tag of $900+ for starfire
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
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  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    Which is why I also proposed 180 range as an alternative. They're not meant to be pitched battle fighters, but out of all the elves, they are supposed to be the best archers.

    Which is why I find it quite incongruous that Glade Guard are actually inferior archers when compared to basic HE archers while being substantially greater in cost. 360 would allow them to become better at hit and run and using their lower range to it's fullest potential by combining it with fire while moving. Alterantively, the synergy with 180 range would perhaps be less, by at least then they would be comparable archers to what their brethren the HE can field. They'll still lose 1v1, but then at least they'll be able to properly match up using their hit and run tactics.
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,325
    Well, Glade Guard really only exists in Starfire Shafts form. 90% time is starfire, 9% is hagbane and 1% is regular...

    For 650, you get AP archers with good accuracy and 170m range. They're not supposed to trade fire with almost any other foot archers, simply because they're worth more and have more overall utility.

  • Nitros14Nitros14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,899
    edited October 2018
    Why use deepwood scouts if glade guard get 360?

    That's what makes deepwood scouts special.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 9,929
    NO to both, just -25 gold and they be great. Along with HE archer -10 range.
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,325
    If I'm not mistaken, on TT, Deepwood Scouts were just an upgraded version of Glade Guard.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 9,929

    If I'm not mistaken, on TT, Deepwood Scouts were just an upgraded version of Glade Guard.

    Who could fire 360 though. Their lore is that they have stealth also so having stalk makes sense.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,259
    No Cool Lad No, Your balance change suggestions are terrible once again. Every time you ask for something its a completely broken thing to ask for.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • saellsaell Registered Users Posts: 481

    NO to both, just -25 gold and they be great. Along with HE archer -10 range.

    Sounds good
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276

    NO to both, just -25 gold and they be great. Along with HE archer -10 range.

    Not a bad idea all in all, the main problem is that the Wood Elves should be better archers; the increased range of HE archers however negates any sort of advantage the glade guard may have, especially seeing how Glade Guard are also fewer in number.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,323
    if HE archers get -10 range they need to drop by -$25 at least, even -$50 perhaps. No reason why HE should get a gold tax on everything and have the only advantage they have compared to $400 Peasant Bowmen negated.
    mightygloin_fan_1
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,325
    There's quite a few things that are more expensive than they should be in HE roster. Archers are most certainly not one of them.

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 9,929
    edited October 2018
    Green0 said:

    if HE archers get -10 range they need to drop by -$25 at least, even -$50 perhaps. No reason why HE should get a gold tax on everything and have the only advantage they have compared to $400 Peasant Bowmen negated.

    You do know that glade guard cost 550 yeah? at 475 HE archers are very underpriced. Light armour archers are a seperate issue.

    -10 range on them and -25g on glade guard is very justified.

    I think Bret archers deserve +25 gold but apart from that

    Bret archers have 160 range so even at 170 HE would still have range advantage, HE got more ammo, 24 more LD, 612 more HP , i only included the stats that matter since combat stats are not that big of an issue.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582
    Agreed, it's more a case of peasant archers being too cheap.
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,325
    If someone is interested, they can compare Empire crossbowmen for 500 to HE archers for 475.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,323
    edited October 2018
    HE archers are perfect price for what they offer, buff underperforming units like Crossbowmen and Glade Guard (though these have fire and move in all honesty, something I thought you value immensely because it’s useful to chase skirmishers flank and shoot reposition and shoot etc, so I thought you price it at least $50 @Lotus_Moon) or nerf overperforming Peasant archers (missile duel can be avoided so HP advantage is not THAT important) but don’t touch HE archers, no point in bringing them if they get any more expensive or get lower range when you have LSG with 165 range AND melee so no need to babysit them for $150 more.
    mightygloin_fan_1
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 9,929
    Green0 said:

    HE archers are perfect price for what they offer, buff underperforming units like Crossbowmen and Glade Guard (though these have fire and move in all honesty, something I thought you value immensely because it’s useful to chase skirmishers flank and shoot reposition and shoot etc, so I thought you price it at least $50 @Lotus_Moon) or nerf overperforming Peasant archers (missile duel can be avoided so HP advantage is not THAT important) but don’t touch HE archers, no point in bringing them if they get any more expensive or get lower range when you have LSG with 165 range AND melee so no need to babysit them for $150 more.

    Yes i would totally price fire and move at 50, hence i think glade guard should cost 50 more than HE archers not 75 like they do currently.

    LSG need -5 range also by the way. HE archers need -10, peasant bowemen need +25 cost, and HE light armour archers need -25 gold and +10 armour.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,323
    edited October 2018
    12.5% more HP for $25 gold on light armor archers, this would be a no brainer, would take 3x of them every game where I now take 3x regular.

    They become so tanky, their job becomes go look for archer duels suddenly lol. Basically it would mean getting a mini 360 shield for $25 only.
    mightygloin_fan_1
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,323
    edited October 2018
    also I’m not sure how much more you can nerf LSG without making them a bad unit, I mean man we’re talking about a $650 archer that can fend off ONLY Hounds and Wolf Riders, you don’t have to babysit them like Archers but they’re not melee proof either any heavy cav still demolishes them even with that BvL cuz their AP is ridiculous.

    And you never want them in melee before expending a good amount of missiles, that is the job of Spearmen.
    mightygloin_fan_1
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582
    WW already outmanouver vanilla archers so that SW are better counters to WW imo, so why do HE vanilla archers and LSG need less range actually?
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    How OP would 360 degree firing arcs be on Glade Guard anyways? They're not all that much more mobile than your standard infantry unit, and they already have lower range than their HE counterparts, all for more cost.

    Deepwood scouts already come with slightly better speed, much better range and stalk and guerrilla deployment, so even with a circular firing arc, I don't really see how glade guard would displace them.

    All it really does is allow the glade guard to make better use of their fire while moving trait.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,582
    Nobody cares about the vanilla GG I think. :)
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 9,929

    WW already outmanouver vanilla archers so that SW are better counters to WW imo, so why do HE vanilla archers and LSG need less range actually?

    I stated already i think WW need nerfs and also WW cost 1100 AND i think sister of avelron could get +10 range


  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276

    Nobody cares about the vanilla GG I think. :)

    I think that this indicates a bit of a problem. Why are vanilla GG so forgettable?

    WW already outmanouver vanilla archers so that SW are better counters to WW imo, so why do HE vanilla archers and LSG need less range actually?

    I stated already i think WW need nerfs and also WW cost 1100 AND i think sister of avelron could get +10 range


    And why do SoA need a buff vis a vis WW now?
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 9,929
    cool_lad said:

    Nobody cares about the vanilla GG I think. :)

    I think that this indicates a bit of a problem. Why are vanilla GG so forgettable?

    WW already outmanouver vanilla archers so that SW are better counters to WW imo, so why do HE vanilla archers and LSG need less range actually?

    I stated already i think WW need nerfs and also WW cost 1100 AND i think sister of avelron could get +10 range


    And why do SoA need a buff vis a vis WW now?
    because they not that good and waywatchers need a nerf in my view.
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