Updated Skill Trees for Volkmar and Skarsnik

TheShiroOfDalton

Of the lords introduced with G&G and K&WL, Volkmar and Skarsnik still haven't gotten updates to make their skilltrees more unique and distinguished from their vanilla counterparts (outside of quest items and mounts or lack thereof). Ghorst and Belegar got these already so it's time to give Volkmar and Skarnsik their due.

Carogna#9534

I imagine they could come with Empire and GS reworks down the line.

TheShiroOfDalton

Carogna said:

I imagine they could come with Empire and GS reworks down the line.

Ghorst and Belegar got their updates outside of their faction upgrades, so no. They should get them as soon as possible.

saell

Also maybe orion cause i think he has also the same skill tree as a glord except u can choose both red lines

Selakah#1254

Ephraim_Dalton said:

Carogna said:

I imagine they could come with Empire and GS reworks down the line.

Ghorst and Belegar got their updates outside of their faction upgrades, so no. They should get them as soon as possible.

You are correct about Ghorst, but not about Belegar; he got his update (in the form of 3 new skills) in the Queen & The Crone Patch, which is when the Dwarf update happened.

Theo91#7431

For the GS a huge overhaul is required.

I’m hoping the GS overhaul has the same level of effort as the bretonia flc

Wyvax#7456

I'm not sure but I think that Wurrzag and Isabella are in the same boat. Can't check now to confirm.

OdTengri#8235

Theo91 said:

For the GS a huge overhaul is required.

I’m hoping the GS overhaul has the same level of effort as the bretonia flc

Aside from fixing the Waaagh mechanic and new start pos what do you think they need.

Ares354#1090

Theo91 said:

For the GS a huge overhaul is required.

I’m hoping the GS overhaul has the same level of effort as the bretonia flc

Why GS need bigger update then Empire, do tell ?


I think its Belegar, Volkmar, White Dwarf, Skarsnik who need new skill in skill tree. And BM leaders too.

CA didint update all of old world LL skills, only some.

Selakah#1254

On the campaign side of things, I feel GS need a LOT of help. Off the top of my head:

• The campaign WAAAGH! mechanic is incredibly cumbersome and often does more harm than good. WAAAGH! armies raid your own lands; are ineffective at autoresolving battles against major factions on their own; are always 1 turn behind you, forcing you to waste a turn getting in position; other factions will sometimes declare war on your WAAAGH! armies, forcing you to join the war as a defensive "ally", getting you dragged into a potentially inconvenient war.
  
  
• GS have horrendous replenishment. They don't have access to a replenishment hero, and the replenishment building heals for much less than other race's replenishment buildings. For some reason, "dying" races like the Elves have access to far better replenishment than the supposed unstoppable green tide.
  
  
• GS have pretty bad public order control. Most factions have access to many factionwide +X to public order effects from legendary items, unique buildings and lord skills. GS are stuck with Dork's Rock and the public order building. It's very difficult to manage public order at higher difficulties, especially in unsuitable climate and beyond. It can become downright impossible to manage if your lands have the slightest hint of Vampiric, Skaven or Chaos corruption.
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• GS only have two campaign heroes, and are missing the Training and Assault Units hero actions which are incredibly useful in campaign. CA could kitbash together an orc warboss hero to help them here.
  

Canuovea#6291

The Greenskins have to deal with the WAAAAGH mechanic, which will no doubt be overhauled.

Replenishment is an easy fix, a tweak. Same for Public Order. They could use a few more unit/hero types as well.

The Dwarfs got a full on new mechanic, moved LL, and a new unit. The Vampires got five new Lord types, a new mechanic (related to those Lord types), and a LL move. Greenskins are in the same vein here really, pardon the vampire pun, because they need a new/overhauled mechanic (WAAAAGH), some faction tweaks, a LL moved (Azhag probably to Red Eye in the mountains), and some new lords/units. They just need a bit more of each.

The Empire, oh the Empire on the other hand, the Empire needs more.

First off they need a new starting position. This could be accomplished by moving existing Lords, sure sure, but even IF they move existing Lords the Offices mechanic will need a complete revamp to make sense for a faction that doesn't include the Emperor or the Reiksmarshall. On top of that, I suggest that they legitimately need more than just moving one lord. They never got a FLC LL with game 1 and I think they're going to need that now.

I also feel they should get a new mechanic of their own. They could lift and tweak the High Elf influence mechanic (just like they did with the TK crafting thing for the Dwarfs). They could do a new Knightly Order thing too, which frankly is needed because it doesn't make sense to be able to recruit Reiksguard while playing as, say, Averland or Middenland. So any faction added is going to need their own heavy cavalry equivalent.

Basically, the Empire is a mess, and they're a mess because their mechanics (and roster!) are so Reikland focused. This requires a lot more work than the Greenskins.

Which is why I think we're going to see the Greenskin update with the next DLC.

Itharus#3127

Actually... most of the buffs that came along with Skarsnik have been removed or nerfed to the point where they are worse than where they were before Skarsnik. Even the GS magic has been completely neutered.

Just the last patch, even, Night Goblin Warbosses and Skarsnik were heavily nerfed -- goblins in general were, too.

Not sure what crack they're smokin' up in CA HQ.

Sternguard_McShooty#5469

Selakah said:

GS only have two campaign heroes, and are missing the Training and Assault Units hero actions which are incredibly useful in campaign. CA could kitbash together an orc warboss hero to help them here.

The weird thing is GS could assault units in TWW1

Assault units used to just target 1 unit in an army, now it seems to hurt most of them when an enemy does it to me. Assault units is OP AF

Wyvax#7456

So I started a bunch of ME campaigns and checked the DLC and FLC lords. Volkmar, Belegar, Grombrindal, Skarsnik, Wurrzag, Vlad, Isabella, all Beastmen LLs, and Wood Elf LLs all need a skill tree rework. Bretonnians have them but they're basically half-finished. Morghur's got the worst, one of his "special skills" is granting Primal Fury to all units in his army, most of which will have it by default.

Nyxilis#3646

I completely agree on the need for those two to be reworked. It doesn't have to wait till the fixes of either of those races. The greenskins need a lot of work....

And my biggest concern there is they backed off changes with Bretonnia based on they would ruin saved games and I'm pretty worried this could happen with both empire and greenskins as any indepth changes have the ability to do exactly that, break saves. So I hoped they listened when a lot people here and on reddit said break them.

RonNL#9690

Wait the main thing why the Greenskins require a change is imo the tech-tree, your need to wait 60 - 75 turns to unlock your elite stuff (spider and artillery)???? Compare this to all the other factions and it makes no sense what so ever, also the bonuses you do get from the tech tree is minimal, its just outdated.

Sternguard_McShooty#5469

Nyxilis said:

I completely agree on the need for those two to be reworked. It doesn't have to wait till the fixes of either of those races. The greenskins need a lot of work....

And my biggest concern there is they backed off changes with Bretonnia based on they would ruin saved games and I'm pretty worried this could happen with both empire and greenskins as any indepth changes have the ability to do exactly that, break saves. So I hoped they listened when a lot people here and on reddit said break them.

just make the updates only apply to new campaigns

Nyxilis#3646

SternguardShootyface said:

Nyxilis said:

I completely agree on the need for those two to be reworked. It doesn't have to wait till the fixes of either of those races. The greenskins need a lot of work....

And my biggest concern there is they backed off changes with Bretonnia based on they would ruin saved games and I'm pretty worried this could happen with both empire and greenskins as any indepth changes have the ability to do exactly that, break saves. So I hoped they listened when a lot people here and on reddit said break them.

just make the updates only apply to new campaigns

Not how CA games work apparently when they were talking about it in the ensuing backlash when they made the statement on saves.