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It is literally ridiculous that this Far East talk continues in any real way.
I'll put $20 Canadian on the line that it simply is not happening in Game 3.
I'll put $20 that they don't even make it into TWWH4 Even though they should totally make a TWWH4 - Lands of the Far East complete with Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh. Kurgan/Hung, Hobgobblin Khanate, and Eastern Vampires for the DLC
5 races, a race for everyone. That's far better than 2 races we've already paid for and 2 new races.
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This is quite possibly one of the worst ideas I have seen suggested on this forum. I do not want to pay for Chaos and the Empire again, no matter how much extra content this gives these factions. You do realize that you are suggesting we get two factions instead of four for the same price as WH1 and WH2, right? A few new lords, units and battle maps for Empire and Chaos is not enough to justify the price of half the game. I'm actually dumbfounded that people would prefer this over actually new factions.
5 races, a race for everyone. That's far better than 2 races we've already paid for and 2 new races.
Why Continue To Say Cathay
There is literally zero reason to expect it, when there are MULTIPLE reasons to expect the rest.
I don't think it's likely to see Cathay at launch....but as DLC? Why not?
Game 1 had 5 DLC/FLC races.
Game 2 in likelihood will have AT LEAST 3 DLC races (cuz we need at least 1 more for the pre-order if nothing else)...although I'm honestly betting we'll get 4.
For Game 3 another 3-4 races after launch seems probable. I understand that to some degree, the number of DLC races will be dependent on overall sales...but also Game 3 shouldn't have an expensive and time-consuming Norsca-style debacle to hinder DLC plans either, so even with slightly worse sales, I think we can expect 3-4 races in there as well.
So for DLC, that's....Nagash? Monogods? MAYBE Hobgoblins?
And maybe people have speculated that we won't get any of those either^^ (or at least not get them as a Race Pack...as Monogods could be implemented as more of a Lord-Pack for only Chaos)
Whether we get those 3 or not....after that what else is there? And let's be real, Cathay doesn't even have to be the last one developed in that list, as it would absolutely sell better than Hobgoblins at least.
So yeah, TL;DR, Cathay/Far East really isn't that much of a stretch considering how much of the 'main' Warhammer world has already been developed. A full DLC schedule is going to necessitate some MINOR, far-fetched stuff to be developed. The Far East is just as likely as any of the minor fluff pieces left at this point.
Because of the map. Because they already chopped the bottom and mashed the contients together, and its not like the proposed 'leak' map has even the whole of the Mountains of Mourn, and there is a huge dead area before you even get to Cathay.
Because its nonsensical to expect/predict that Cathay is a starting on release Faction when there is Kislev, Ogres, Chaos Dwarves and Daemons and an entire area that supports the vast majority of the existing factions and Cathay is not part of it.
Worse yet there are far more other close options. As mentioned there is actually a pretty large gap between the Ogre Kingdoms and Cathay filled with chaos warp taint and it's part of why the Ogres themselves had to keep heading west. It's a deadzone suitable only for Daemons and Warriors of Chaos unless you want to get terrible mutated into something not resembling your original race.
Even if you ignore the dataleak of 4 datamined monoraces, there are still other existing factions far closer that are booked factions or can be there. DoC, Chaos Dwarves, and Ogre Kingdoms.
Even if you decided to dig into the minor races to flesh out there is Kislev with colonies in the darklands. There is the Hobgoblin Khanate which is in the area. You could do a Bloodlines DLC or Nagash DLC as many of their major leaders are in the Darklands like Nagash, flesh out the silver pinnacle, or add in other major undead baddies that are very much confirmed in the area. The Kurgen are right there sitting on top of the Darklands like a hat. And all these are very much located in the Darklands without making up expeditionary forces from a land far far away. These are right there, inside and/or bordering.
And even if you want to delve into the Far East countries the Kingdom of Ind actually borders the Darklands in the South East, Cathay does not. So I don't even understand the Cathay obsession in that just because it's 'sorta but not really near'. And it has all the same vague mentions of weird units and even a couple named leaders that exist or existed there. Which is really all Cathay has anyways. So I'm always boggled why people enshrine vague Chinese warhammer version over vague Indian warhammer version. Especially when Ind is actually right there. On the actual border. And don't say for the Chinese market. The Indian market is also a billion people that huge volume already speak english, aaaaand isn't pseudo banning games because of a trade war at the moment.
But I find it quite likely it would ever make it as a starting race anyways.
5 races, a race for everyone. That's far better than 2 races we've already paid for and 2 new races.
As flippin' amazing as this would be, I don't anticipate 5 races at launch. One of these will likely be DLC and/or not in the game.
Easy; Cathay or Kislev as a pre-order.
I'm a genius.
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The reason people dont get after 'Ind' (seriously now) is...there is even less about Ind other than I believe, Tiger Beastmen.
Cool
Daemons, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and KISLEV.
Nothing makes more sense, and its not even REMOTELY close.
At base I agree, what I'm saying is I don't understand it when compared to Cathay. Their mentions are still a bunch of unstatted barely described units. They say stuff like the monks of whatever, and that is somehow some giant hint? They have no stats, no description of aesthetic, no description of fighting style, weapons used, if they're paper, if they're tough. It's all the same hallowness. Those monks could be coming out in neonpink fur coats fighting with dual 9 foot bamboo sticks and you couldn't say it's wrong because there is nothing. Same with the champion of the emperor, okay, so.. was he a caster, melee, hybrid, ride a kirin, horse, foot, or did he surf around on a flying manatee. All the same, can't prove or show a thing other than a name.
The truth is if they added Cathay or Ind they'd still mostly end up analogous to their real life inspirations. Then sprinkle in tigermen and other things made by CA and all the lords made from the ground up by CA. Cathay's named people would still be fully made up in all but name.
But, once more, that's only compared to Cathay. Kislev, Dameons, Chaos Dwarves, and even undead bloodlines all are well and truely above that.
The reason people dont get after 'Ind' (seriously now) is...there is even less about Ind other than I believe, Tiger Beastmen.
Cool
Daemons, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and KISLEV.
Nothing makes more sense, and its not even REMOTELY close.
At base I agree, what I'm saying is I don't understand it when compared to Cathay. Their mentions are still a bunch of unstatted barely described units. They say stuff like the monks of whatever, and that is somehow some giant hint? They have no stats, no description of aesthetic, no description of fighting style, weapons used, if they're paper, if they're tough. It's all the same hallowness. Those monks could be coming out in neonpink fur coats fighting with dual 9 foot bamboo sticks and you couldn't say it's wrong because there is nothing. Same with the champion of the emperor, okay, so.. was he a caster, melee, hybrid, ride a kirin, horse, foot, or did he surf around on a flying manatee. All the same, can't prove or show a thing other than a name.
The truth is if they added Cathay or Ind they'd still mostly end up analogous to their real life inspirations. Then sprinkle in tigermen and other things made by CA and all the lords made from the ground up by CA. Cathay's named people would still be fully made up in all but name.
But, once more, that's only compared to Cathay. Kislev, Dameons, Chaos Dwarves, and even undead bloodlines all are well and truely above that.
See I know you have no idea what you are talking about, because your example about monks is outright wrong. The lore snippets on monks explicitly describes their fighting style and weapons they use (none, they are capable of killing people with a touch of their hands).
Lacking looks and stats aren't really a problem. CA is a video game company that has plenty of designers, writers, and artists who's job it literally is to create stuff like this.
The reason people dont get after 'Ind' (seriously now) is...there is even less about Ind other than I believe, Tiger Beastmen.
Cool
Daemons, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and KISLEV.
Nothing makes more sense, and its not even REMOTELY close.
At base I agree, what I'm saying is I don't understand it when compared to Cathay. Their mentions are still a bunch of unstatted barely described units. They say stuff like the monks of whatever, and that is somehow some giant hint? They have no stats, no description of aesthetic, no description of fighting style, weapons used, if they're paper, if they're tough. It's all the same hallowness. Those monks could be coming out in neonpink fur coats fighting with dual 9 foot bamboo sticks and you couldn't say it's wrong because there is nothing. Same with the champion of the emperor, okay, so.. was he a caster, melee, hybrid, ride a kirin, horse, foot, or did he surf around on a flying manatee. All the same, can't prove or show a thing other than a name.
The truth is if they added Cathay or Ind they'd still mostly end up analogous to their real life inspirations. Then sprinkle in tigermen and other things made by CA and all the lords made from the ground up by CA. Cathay's named people would still be fully made up in all but name.
But, once more, that's only compared to Cathay. Kislev, Dameons, Chaos Dwarves, and even undead bloodlines all are well and truely above that.
See I know you have no idea what you are talking about, because your example about monks is outright wrong. The lore snippets on monks explicitly describes their fighting style and weapons they use (none, they are capable of killing people with a touch of their hands).
Lacking looks and stats aren't really a problem. CA is a video game company that has plenty of designers, writers, and artists who's job it literally is to create stuff like this.
Where does it explicitly say they are entirely weaponless? Cause I certainly don't remember that, and it is actually very wrong when compared to their real life counterparts that did very much use weapons. It's western idealism that disarms chinese monks.
It allows CA to fully flesh out what is arguably the most important faction in all of Warhammer: Fantasy Battles: The Empire of Man. Do you think it's a coincidence the Empire only got 3 LLs in Game 1? They were saving them for Game 3 all along! The Empire on Game 3 could have, at release, the missing Amethyst and Gold Wizard, the missing Knightly Orders, all of the Wizard Lords and the Celestial Hurricanum.
I think you might have soething there.
However if Empire got everything at release as the part of your post I quoted suggests how would they make any dlc for it? Im pretty sure every core faction of game 3 will be designed to receive dlc's later on and thus wont be complete on release.
The reason people dont get after 'Ind' (seriously now) is...there is even less about Ind other than I believe, Tiger Beastmen.
Cool
Daemons, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and KISLEV.
Nothing makes more sense, and its not even REMOTELY close.
At base I agree, what I'm saying is I don't understand it when compared to Cathay. Their mentions are still a bunch of unstatted barely described units. They say stuff like the monks of whatever, and that is somehow some giant hint? They have no stats, no description of aesthetic, no description of fighting style, weapons used, if they're paper, if they're tough. It's all the same hallowness. Those monks could be coming out in neonpink fur coats fighting with dual 9 foot bamboo sticks and you couldn't say it's wrong because there is nothing. Same with the champion of the emperor, okay, so.. was he a caster, melee, hybrid, ride a kirin, horse, foot, or did he surf around on a flying manatee. All the same, can't prove or show a thing other than a name.
The truth is if they added Cathay or Ind they'd still mostly end up analogous to their real life inspirations. Then sprinkle in tigermen and other things made by CA and all the lords made from the ground up by CA. Cathay's named people would still be fully made up in all but name.
But, once more, that's only compared to Cathay. Kislev, Dameons, Chaos Dwarves, and even undead bloodlines all are well and truely above that.
See I know you have no idea what you are talking about, because your example about monks is outright wrong. The lore snippets on monks explicitly describes their fighting style and weapons they use (none, they are capable of killing people with a touch of their hands).
Lacking looks and stats aren't really a problem. CA is a video game company that has plenty of designers, writers, and artists who's job it literally is to create stuff like this.
Where does it explicitly say they are entirely weaponless? Cause I certainly don't remember that, and it is actually very wrong when compared to their real life counterparts that did very much use weapons. It's western idealism that disarms chinese monks.
The reason people dont get after 'Ind' (seriously now) is...there is even less about Ind other than I believe, Tiger Beastmen.
Cool
Daemons, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and KISLEV.
Nothing makes more sense, and its not even REMOTELY close.
At base I agree, what I'm saying is I don't understand it when compared to Cathay. Their mentions are still a bunch of unstatted barely described units. They say stuff like the monks of whatever, and that is somehow some giant hint? They have no stats, no description of aesthetic, no description of fighting style, weapons used, if they're paper, if they're tough. It's all the same hallowness. Those monks could be coming out in neonpink fur coats fighting with dual 9 foot bamboo sticks and you couldn't say it's wrong because there is nothing. Same with the champion of the emperor, okay, so.. was he a caster, melee, hybrid, ride a kirin, horse, foot, or did he surf around on a flying manatee. All the same, can't prove or show a thing other than a name.
The truth is if they added Cathay or Ind they'd still mostly end up analogous to their real life inspirations. Then sprinkle in tigermen and other things made by CA and all the lords made from the ground up by CA. Cathay's named people would still be fully made up in all but name.
But, once more, that's only compared to Cathay. Kislev, Dameons, Chaos Dwarves, and even undead bloodlines all are well and truely above that.
See I know you have no idea what you are talking about, because your example about monks is outright wrong. The lore snippets on monks explicitly describes their fighting style and weapons they use (none, they are capable of killing people with a touch of their hands).
Lacking looks and stats aren't really a problem. CA is a video game company that has plenty of designers, writers, and artists who's job it literally is to create stuff like this.
Where does it explicitly say they are entirely weaponless? Cause I certainly don't remember that, and it is actually very wrong when compared to their real life counterparts that did very much use weapons. It's western idealism that disarms chinese monks.
Unarmed kung fu monks is a stereotype.
Warhammer LOVES stereotypes.
Except in this context, it's not defined. As Warhammer also generally liked arms and armor from various periods to. And even Warhammer at a point came to realize that you have to work at least a little bit away from incorrect stereotypes and why you'll never see pygmies ever again in any format in Warhammer or TW's version.
Still sums up having to create it from the ground up from vague mentions. Do they make up their own order? Do they model off some incorrect hollywood version or a version actually from the real life version? Do they worship anything? Beholden to the emperor, the government, or separate?
That's the mainline point, everything from that area is going is name or vague descriptions and will be built from the drawing board up.
It's not like I'm saying Cathay can never exist but if you're asking CA to take that much effort when they're already going to have a lot of effort just doing one of any of the possibilities, to zip to one that is entirely off map when there are other options. Other undead options(that like probably would rather given evidence), other destruction options, other chaos options, Kislev for order. All whom are appropriately there. It's unrealistic.
People concentrate on Cathay rather than Ind because, simply put, while Cathay has traditionally been background in WFB, there's a lot more on Cathay than Ind. We've got a couple of descriptions of battles involving Cathayans (with the Tower of Ashshair in Tamurkhan being the most detailed), a fairly long list of units that have been mentioned (if not statted and modelled) and there is actually at least one pre-4E model, namely the Temple Dog. Ind pretty much just has "it's exotic and mysterious" without any specifics.
Geographically speaking, either can work, depending on where the borders of the map are placed. People who are anti-Cathay seem to exaggerate just how large the corrupted area around the Great Maw is, and even putting that aside, TWW already allows living, non-Chaos factions to settle places which are uninhabitable in the fluff, such as the Land of the Dead and the actual Chaos Wastes north of Naggaroth.
Comments
I'll put $20 Canadian on the line that it simply is not happening in Game 3.
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3 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeKislev
Ogres
Chaos Dwarfs
Demons
5 races, a race for everyone. That's far better than 2 races we've already paid for and 2 new races.
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
3 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeContinue
To
Say
Cathay
There is literally zero reason to expect it, when there are MULTIPLE reasons to expect the rest.
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeGame 1 had 5 DLC/FLC races.
Game 2 in likelihood will have AT LEAST 3 DLC races (cuz we need at least 1 more for the pre-order if nothing else)...although I'm honestly betting we'll get 4.
For Game 3 another 3-4 races after launch seems probable. I understand that to some degree, the number of DLC races will be dependent on overall sales...but also Game 3 shouldn't have an expensive and time-consuming Norsca-style debacle to hinder DLC plans either, so even with slightly worse sales, I think we can expect 3-4 races in there as well.
So for DLC, that's....Nagash? Monogods? MAYBE Hobgoblins?
And maybe people have speculated that we won't get any of those either^^ (or at least not get them as a Race Pack...as Monogods could be implemented as more of a Lord-Pack for only Chaos)
Whether we get those 3 or not....after that what else is there? And let's be real, Cathay doesn't even have to be the last one developed in that list, as it would absolutely sell better than Hobgoblins at least.
So yeah, TL;DR, Cathay/Far East really isn't that much of a stretch considering how much of the 'main' Warhammer world has already been developed. A full DLC schedule is going to necessitate some MINOR, far-fetched stuff to be developed. The Far East is just as likely as any of the minor fluff pieces left at this point.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeBecause its nonsensical to expect/predict that Cathay is a starting on release Faction when there is Kislev, Ogres, Chaos Dwarves and Daemons and an entire area that supports the vast majority of the existing factions and Cathay is not part of it.
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeEven if you ignore the dataleak of 4 datamined monoraces, there are still other existing factions far closer that are booked factions or can be there. DoC, Chaos Dwarves, and Ogre Kingdoms.
Even if you decided to dig into the minor races to flesh out there is Kislev with colonies in the darklands. There is the Hobgoblin Khanate which is in the area. You could do a Bloodlines DLC or Nagash DLC as many of their major leaders are in the Darklands like Nagash, flesh out the silver pinnacle, or add in other major undead baddies that are very much confirmed in the area. The Kurgen are right there sitting on top of the Darklands like a hat. And all these are very much located in the Darklands without making up expeditionary forces from a land far far away. These are right there, inside and/or bordering.
And even if you want to delve into the Far East countries the Kingdom of Ind actually borders the Darklands in the South East, Cathay does not. So I don't even understand the Cathay obsession in that just because it's 'sorta but not really near'. And it has all the same vague mentions of weird units and even a couple named leaders that exist or existed there. Which is really all Cathay has anyways. So I'm always boggled why people enshrine vague Chinese warhammer version over vague Indian warhammer version. Especially when Ind is actually right there. On the actual border. And don't say for the Chinese market. The Indian market is also a billion people that huge volume already speak english, aaaaand isn't pseudo banning games because of a trade war at the moment.
But I find it quite likely it would ever make it as a starting race anyways.
- Report
3 · Disagree AgreeCool
Daemons, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and KISLEV.
Nothing makes more sense, and its not even REMOTELY close.
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0 · Disagree AgreeApparently they where touchy about CA using Dreadfleet as source material so I doubt they'd let CA make an entire faction from a few strands of lore.
If only GW weren't such a sh*t company.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI'm a genius.
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0 · Disagree AgreeThe truth is if they added Cathay or Ind they'd still mostly end up analogous to their real life inspirations. Then sprinkle in tigermen and other things made by CA and all the lords made from the ground up by CA. Cathay's named people would still be fully made up in all but name.
But, once more, that's only compared to Cathay. Kislev, Dameons, Chaos Dwarves, and even undead bloodlines all are well and truely above that.
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeLacking looks and stats aren't really a problem. CA is a video game company that has plenty of designers, writers, and artists who's job it literally is to create stuff like this.
- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeHowever if Empire got everything at release as the part of your post I quoted suggests how would they make any dlc for it? Im pretty sure every core faction of game 3 will be designed to receive dlc's later on and thus wont be complete on release.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeWarhammer LOVES stereotypes.
Araby - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/216388/ultimate-araby-unit-list-the-canon-edition#latest
Estalia - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/219062/ultimate-estalia-unit-list-the-canon-edition#latest
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0 · Disagree AgreeStill sums up having to create it from the ground up from vague mentions. Do they make up their own order? Do they model off some incorrect hollywood version or a version actually from the real life version? Do they worship anything? Beholden to the emperor, the government, or separate?
That's the mainline point, everything from that area is going is name or vague descriptions and will be built from the drawing board up.
It's not like I'm saying Cathay can never exist but if you're asking CA to take that much effort when they're already going to have a lot of effort just doing one of any of the possibilities, to zip to one that is entirely off map when there are other options. Other undead options(that like probably would rather given evidence), other destruction options, other chaos options, Kislev for order. All whom are appropriately there. It's unrealistic.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeGeographically speaking, either can work, depending on where the borders of the map are placed. People who are anti-Cathay seem to exaggerate just how large the corrupted area around the Great Maw is, and even putting that aside, TWW already allows living, non-Chaos factions to settle places which are uninhabitable in the fluff, such as the Land of the Dead and the actual Chaos Wastes north of Naggaroth.
- Report
0 · Disagree Agree