Transparency about the LizardmenVSkaven DLC?

WaaaghCheif#7753

Two weeks has passed, and we have had our fun with buccaneering in the great seas of Warhammer. Although the VCoast needs some finesse (Like Infamy having a impact, not serving the infamous pirate rivals on silver platter, lets not begin with Lokhir) and we will still have a lot of fun with them.

But with HE/DE receivng their dlc/flcs, TK getting flc, the two other pillar races are pretty much left with scrapes.

The Cold Blooded rework? A step in the right direction to be sure, but still Predatory Instincts/Rampage are no Predatory Fighter yet...

The Food Rework? Weak, the food mechanic as whole feels like miss. I know what they were going for, the Skaven growing at uncontrollable and unmanageable rates. But a substantial food mechanic makes more sense for the inevitable Ogre Kingdoms.

Skaven are arguably THE Race you should be able to spread and paint the map with it. Bring on the Vermintide, the verminous horde. Not farming rebellions, sacking for food until you can conquer one province.




So to the point, I would love to know a ETA on when we are getting the 4th dlc for the game. At least if we can expect it before or after the release of 3 Kingdoms. Are we in for a pleasant surprise, or is it as expected, the return of the five month drought.

Canuovea#6291

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon. They may not even know when they'll be able to let it drop quite yet as well.

Not only that, but I remember people complaining that we were told too soon about the Vampire Coast.

At least we have a general idea about what the content will be for the next DLC, that is nice.

WaaaghCheif#7753

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon..

We aren't no. I just think most people wants to know what CA means by early 2019. The wording on the blog post implies that 3Kindoms will take the full spotlight until the release in March. Which will release LizvSkaven earliest in April.

Norsca:
Late May

Late May(31st)

Shivers

Goatforce#6625

I hope we will get a blog (probs a what the team are working on) that will give a vague idea not of a timeframe exactly but if we are getting the DLC before 3K or after. For example it might, like with the blog which told us thet we were getting a CP after Q&C, say "it will be a while" - which would indicate a post-3K release. Would be sad if we have to wait till April for the next LP, Lizzies and Rats really need it.

Dracklor#9977

WaaaghCheif said:

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon..

We aren't no. I just think most people wants to know what CA means by early 2019. The wording on the blog post implies that 3Kindoms will take the full spotlight until the release in March. Which will release LizvSkaven earliest in April.

Norsca:
Late May

Late May(31st)

Shivers

I think mid Febuary is really possible, if we wait till 3K is done and post release updates are done its gonna be close to 6-7 months of a wait wich is longer than an Entire Race. Srx In 4 Months they can clearly do it, a lord pack is far less demanding than a completely new race, so 1 month less is really possible.

#28957

Canuovea said:

Not only that, but I remember people complaining that we were told too soon about the Vampire Coast.

That's too bad. I suggest we close the forums and only allow "appreciation" since complaining hurts feelings way too much.

Boombastek91

Food change was a great, now you can had food in late game all time in green spot, and insta place t5 city.
LM Skaven pack after 3K, late april or may

Bloodydagger#9716

Skaven Undercity needs to be a thing. Like Pirate Coves sort of.

Player#902441

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon. They may not even know when they'll be able to let it drop quite yet as well.

Not only that, but I remember people complaining that we were told too soon about the Vampire Coast.

At least we have a general idea about what the content will be for the next DLC, that is nice.

I suspect Lizardmen and Skaven players would disagree.
The decision to leave them in the state they are and release a new race first must be rather perplexing.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Hopefully we'll get news of that very thing this year.

I'm looking forward to space marine rat.

Nyxilis#3646

But expecting anything at this point is just simply folly. If you look at any announcements of prior DLC for game 2 when we're less than a month out from the drop of the last one? Simply not going to happen.

Or for that matter, expecting it anytime early than February in my opinion.

DarkLordD

At this point we can't expect anything from ca. They delivered very well with a faction no one dared even mentioning.

It's not even been 2 weeks since the dlc release, now you got to be happy a while with what you got. Ca did very well on this one and it will take some time for the next. Just be patient and it will all come.

Commissar_G#7535

Arsenic said:

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon. They may not even know when they'll be able to let it drop quite yet as well.

Not only that, but I remember people complaining that we were told too soon about the Vampire Coast.

At least we have a general idea about what the content will be for the next DLC, that is nice.

I suspect Lizardmen and Skaven players would disagree.
The decision to leave them in the state they are and release a new race first must be rather perplexing.

Jezzails aren't important you know.

Mad_D0c_#1516

I think the main delay reason of the last LP was the implemebtation of norsca. So I think the Skaven LM LP will definitely be released before 3K.

Last time they worked on
A) Norsca + 4 new monster hunts,
Alith Anar + unique campaign mechanic + unit flc,
C) Bomne Giant Flc
D) Q&C dlc
E) dwarf rework
F) patch for lot of stuff
G) labratory mode

This time needed:
A) skaven LM LP dlc
LM lord flc + unique mechanic + maybe unique unit
C) old worl race rework - most likely orcs
D) very unlikely VP unit flc
F) patch/ rework of som Skaven and LM mechanics but not somany patches for all races

When I compare both, the latter shouldn't need so much time but who knows.

Make war not love in february will at least get a mini flc - so why not focus this event for the LP. More maps should not be neccessary

Even they can call it "Make WAAAAAGH not love" while releasing orc rwork alongside.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Commissar_G said:

Arsenic said:

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon. They may not even know when they'll be able to let it drop quite yet as well.

Not only that, but I remember people complaining that we were told too soon about the Vampire Coast.

At least we have a general idea about what the content will be for the next DLC, that is nice.

I suspect Lizardmen and Skaven players would disagree.
The decision to leave them in the state they are and release a new race first must be rather perplexing.

Jezzails aren't important you know.

Xenos777

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon.

Sure. And CA isn't owed our money, also. So let's build up a nice business relationship where we get transparent communication and they get our money, shall we?

SiWI#8629

Xenos7 said:

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon.

Sure. And CA isn't owed our money, also. So let's build up a nice business relationship where we get transparent communication and they get our money, shall we?

so you will not buy the next LP because they didn't told you 3-6 months in advance (and then probably changed it a couple of times) the contend?
I find that hard to believe.

Xenos777

SiWI said:

Xenos7 said:

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon.

Sure. And CA isn't owed our money, also. So let's build up a nice business relationship where we get transparent communication and they get our money, shall we?

so you will not buy the next LP because they didn't told you 3-6 months in advance (and then probably changed it a couple of times) the contend?
I find that hard to believe.

I'll buy anything Warhammer because
1) I want to support the project in order to have more fictional and less historical games down the line
2) The price is no big deal

But that's me. Having more transparent communication would go a *long* way in establishing a better relationship with the community and in convincing people on the fence.

Wargol#7449

Given the reaction of some people, i'm not sure CA want to be transparent again

Firkraag888

Canuovea said:

We are owed nothing, especially not so soon. They may not even know when they'll be able to let it drop quite yet as well.

Not only that, but I remember people complaining that we were told too soon about the Vampire Coast.

At least we have a general idea about what the content will be for the next DLC, that is nice.

I would be more positive then this. We aren’t owed anything isn’t really what the OP meant he just wants some info.

Having said that tww2 is selling unbelievably well. Correct me if I’m wrong but it is selling better then any tw game before it. It is allways sitting on the first or second page of steam best sellers. Because of this you would think CA will be doing there upmost to provide as much more DLC and FLC as possible.

I personally wood prefer wood elves get updated first

uriak

Commercially we are only owned fixes. I know it sounds like heresy to their fans but neither SK or LM are unplayable. If they were it should have been said at the launch of the game.

Now clearly they don't like to provide us with roadmaps, because of their corporate culture and maybe some mishaps in the past. Their content team is not that large and they had their hands full with this project that differs from past games.

And I don't know. People have been making a whuss about the DE thing that was teased. Seems a bad move to release something earlier then add stuff. I really wouldn't say people would be appeased by any early release info. Is it worth risking cut content ?

Firkraag888

uriak said:

Commercially we are only owned fixes. I know it sounds like heresy to their fans but neither SK or LM are unplayable. If they were it should have been said at the launch of the game.

Now clearly they don't like to provide us with roadmaps, because of their corporate culture and maybe some mishaps in the past. Their content team is not that large and they had their hands full with this project that differs from past games.

And I don't know. People have been making a whuss about the DE thing that was teased. Seems a bad move to release something earlier then add stuff. I really wouldn't say people would be appeased by any early release info. Is it worth risking cut content ?

What dark elf thing got teased?

Infinite_Maw

Between late January to mid Febuary is good, especially now they are doing 2 months of worth of attention to three kingdoms at this point.

Out of all the scenarios though, the DLC coming within a one month time span either before of after the release of three kingdoms is very unlikely since CA probably wants to give that game some breathing space for their dedicated TW players to play.

Also if the DLC was to be released in May, this would raise further questions on resource allocation (although the vampire coast really disproved that). Many of the models to be introduced are essentially reskins such as the Engine of the Gods (Ancient Stegadon), Ratling Guns (Warpfire Throwers), Ripperdactyl Riders (Terradon Riders) and otherwise salamanders and razordons share the same body structure and thus movement/attack/death animations are shared. That is not including how certain Skaven characters like Ikit Claw or Thanquol can be based from reskins too. Only a few new animations are needed, and hopefully they are not too exotic to replicate.
Given that the vast majority of new animations for the vampire coast were done before October, and there were a lot of new animations, then that gives CA 2-4 months of development time for units that don't take too much work.

Lunaticprince#9972

uriak said:

Commercially we are only owned fixes. I know it sounds like heresy to their fans but neither SK or LM are unplayable. If they were it should have been said at the launch of the game.

Now clearly they don't like to provide us with roadmaps, because of their corporate culture and maybe some mishaps in the past. Their content team is not that large and they had their hands full with this project that differs from past games.

And I don't know. People have been making a whuss about the DE thing that was teased. Seems a bad move to release something earlier then add stuff. I really wouldn't say people would be appeased by any early release info. Is it worth risking cut content ?

When content is removed to release it earlier.

Then no, that's not worth it.

Dracklor#9977

Steamage said:

uriak said:

Commercially we are only owned fixes. I know it sounds like heresy to their fans but neither SK or LM are unplayable. If they were it should have been said at the launch of the game.

Now clearly they don't like to provide us with roadmaps, because of their corporate culture and maybe some mishaps in the past. Their content team is not that large and they had their hands full with this project that differs from past games.

And I don't know. People have been making a whuss about the DE thing that was teased. Seems a bad move to release something earlier then add stuff. I really wouldn't say people would be appeased by any early release info. Is it worth risking cut content ?

When content is removed to release it earlier.

Then no, that's not worth it.

Agreed that would be really bad, Im expecting a late Febuary release, it is realistic and not too far

Valkaar#2507

Firkraag888 said:

uriak said:

Commercially we are only owned fixes. I know it sounds like heresy to their fans but neither SK or LM are unplayable. If they were it should have been said at the launch of the game.

Now clearly they don't like to provide us with roadmaps, because of their corporate culture and maybe some mishaps in the past. Their content team is not that large and they had their hands full with this project that differs from past games.

And I don't know. People have been making a whuss about the DE thing that was teased. Seems a bad move to release something earlier then add stuff. I really wouldn't say people would be appeased by any early release info. Is it worth risking cut content ?

What dark elf thing got teased?

I think he's referring to when they did multiple teases saying "the chalice was almost full" to release some Dark Elf monster from its chains.

It was admittedly weird, as it gave no new info or timeline as to when the monster was coming, gave the community no interaction to 'fill the chalice sooner' like with the 'Make Love, not War' campaign, and didn't give any additional info as to what the monster actually was, causing rampant speculation.

And they released this as 'news' like 3-4 times with no additional info. Just the 'chalice is getting full' posts, over and over again.

Then the monster (Kharibdyss) all of a sudden came out. No lead up. No post with a better hint or better clue. Just: 'the chalice is full now': Here's your Kharibdyss.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Kharibdyss as a unit. As far as reskins go, I think it looks cool. And I'm not sympathetic to the argument that the Queen and the Crone was 'bad' DLC cuz it didn't have any monsters, or that it needed the Kharibdyss to 'fix' or somehow 'complete' it, as many fans argued. The Kharibdyss to me was a 'bonus', not a 'fix'.

But the way they marketed it was weird, and they got a lot of backlash for it, and I imagine theyhave since been heavily deterred from releasing news too far in advance, especially if they don't have anything concrete to announce as a result of that whole mess. Admittedly, I don't think the lesson they should have learned was 'don't tease us/give us info too far in advance'...but I think that may be the lesson they took from the incident anyway.

Pocman#6295

Valkaar said:

Firkraag888 said:

uriak said:

Commercially we are only owned fixes. I know it sounds like heresy to their fans but neither SK or LM are unplayable. If they were it should have been said at the launch of the game.

Now clearly they don't like to provide us with roadmaps, because of their corporate culture and maybe some mishaps in the past. Their content team is not that large and they had their hands full with this project that differs from past games.

And I don't know. People have been making a whuss about the DE thing that was teased. Seems a bad move to release something earlier then add stuff. I really wouldn't say people would be appeased by any early release info. Is it worth risking cut content ?

What dark elf thing got teased?

I think he's referring to when they did multiple teases saying "the chalice was almost full" to release some Dark Elf monster from its chains.

It was admittedly weird, as it gave no new info or timeline as to when the monster was coming, gave the community no interaction to 'fill the chalice sooner' like with the 'Make Love, not War' campaign, and didn't give any additional info as to what the monster actually was, causing rampant speculation.

And they released this as 'news' like 3-4 times with no additional info. Just the 'chalice is getting full' posts, over and over again.

Then the monster (Kharibdyss) all of a sudden came out. No lead up. No post with a better hint or better clue. Just: 'the chalice is full now': Here's your Kharibdyss.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Kharibdyss as a unit. As far as reskins go, I think it looks cool. And I'm not sympathetic to the argument that the Queen and the Crone was 'bad' DLC cuz it didn't have any monsters, or that it needed the Kharibdyss to 'fix' or somehow 'complete' it, as many fans argued. The Kharibdyss to me was a 'bonus', not a 'fix'.

But the way they marketed it was weird, and they got a lot of backlash for it, and I imagine theyhave since been heavily deterred from releasing news too far in advance, especially if they don't have anything concrete to announce as a result of that whole mess. Admittedly, I don't think the lesson they should have learned was 'don't tease us/give us info too far in advance'...but I think that may be the lesson they took from the incident anyway.

The Kharibdyss was an obvious and cheap filler fix for an incomplete DLC, which, in addition, was marketed in a way that was, imho, a bit deceitful.

KronusX

Valkaar said:

Firkraag888 said:

uriak said:

Commercially we are only owned fixes. I know it sounds like heresy to their fans but neither SK or LM are unplayable. If they were it should have been said at the launch of the game.

Now clearly they don't like to provide us with roadmaps, because of their corporate culture and maybe some mishaps in the past. Their content team is not that large and they had their hands full with this project that differs from past games.

And I don't know. People have been making a whuss about the DE thing that was teased. Seems a bad move to release something earlier then add stuff. I really wouldn't say people would be appeased by any early release info. Is it worth risking cut content ?

What dark elf thing got teased?

I think he's referring to when they did multiple teases saying "the chalice was almost full" to release some Dark Elf monster from its chains.

It was admittedly weird, as it gave no new info or timeline as to when the monster was coming, gave the community no interaction to 'fill the chalice sooner' like with the 'Make Love, not War' campaign, and didn't give any additional info as to what the monster actually was, causing rampant speculation.

And they released this as 'news' like 3-4 times with no additional info. Just the 'chalice is getting full' posts, over and over again.

Then the monster (Kharibdyss) all of a sudden came out. No lead up. No post with a better hint or better clue. Just: 'the chalice is full now': Here's your Kharibdyss.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Kharibdyss as a unit. As far as reskins go, I think it looks cool. And I'm not sympathetic to the argument that the Queen and the Crone was 'bad' DLC cuz it didn't have any monsters, or that it needed the Kharibdyss to 'fix' or somehow 'complete' it, as many fans argued. The Kharibdyss to me was a 'bonus', not a 'fix'.

But the way they marketed it was weird, and they got a lot of backlash for it, and I imagine theyhave since been heavily deterred from releasing news too far in advance, especially if they don't have anything concrete to announce as a result of that whole mess. Admittedly, I don't think the lesson they should have learned was 'don't tease us/give us info too far in advance'...but I think that may be the lesson they took from the incident anyway.

See this type of thing reeks of incompetence from CA's side. Their take from the backlash of the fans was ''oh we released too many news, we can't do this anymore '' instead of ''fans got annoyed because they were being made to jump through wheels to find out what was being released''.

To put it nicely CA never ever had transparency since the release of WH2. The gave false excuse, lied about the motives why the content was delayed and so on. Norsca debacle?9 months to fix. Lower amount of content? blamed on people complaining that there are too many DLCs. A few months later they changed their tune to ''Ok maybe we are working on more projects in the same time which is slowing us down'' after this was an argument mentioned by the reasonable players constantly.

What about the FLC timeline? No one knows anything about it, not to mention about lab,mp maps (which for some dumb reason cannot be added to campaign) and Lokhir (sorry, but he is literally a garbage flc for a Vcoast with a lackluster skill tree and that cannot even board his own arks).

It would be nice also if they knew the difference between good PR and bad PR. ''Don't buy it if you don't like it'' is not good pr, neither is over-hyping to no ends a unit .

Here is a perfect example of good PR

-This is what we are planning to do for DLC in the future/FLCs

-We had an issue when we planned X, therefore it was changed to Y.

Yes some people would still rant, but the majority would appreciate the honesty more over the stupid mini-clues given. Even Vcoast had some dumb stuff like ''salt''. Guess what, salt can have 100 meanings in the same time.

uriak

Thing is you can"t change that easily a release date. That's why the earlier it's revealed, the more risks you take and this is in one industry that certainly doesn't shy to push unfinished products. People have accepted this because later fixes have been coming with additional content in many cases, but it has set dangerous precedents.

We will probably never know how much of the Kharibdyss was prepared by release time. I don't think the outcry prompted it, though it's still in the realm of possibility. But in any case they weren't pushing back the Q&C release date. Not when they had marketing and release candidate prepared (they already get enough bugs as is )

Anyway they aren't communicating much but it's debatable if they think it's an actual issue. The game is attacked for a variety of different reasons, within these forums or outside (just consider the too much DLC reaction ) and each polemic du jour doesn't translate everytime in sales hit, on the contrary.

My simplest explanation is this is not their culture, this is their first TW game spanning such a large amount of content and progressive rule change. They have a loose player base with different motivation, and game design certainly can't please everyone, they know they can't just target the purest WH fanatic nor the people who only like nice monsters (unless they are, hehe) Things like elite units, upkeep, Ai behaviour, the next faction to add, siege design, don't elicit any consensus. So perhaps from their POV it's better not to delve too much on their internal debate and next objective.

RockNRolla92#9743

Earliest they will even hint at them working on a new lord pack is late December.

Sure CA was replying to people asking about the next dlc a month after q+c with "we've only just released the last DLC".

Unless it's definitely after 3Kingdoms in which case they might come out with that or hint towards it.

If there is a chance we get it before they won't let on as if it slips then they won't have to say anything.

Considering previous lord packs being about a month and a half between them, times that by 2 since they said everything takes longer and 3-4 months seems reasonable.

Does anyone actually have a quote stating they said early next year ? I keep seeing this but with no proof

KronusX

uriak said:

Thing is you can"t change that easily a release date. That's why the earlier it's revealed, the more risks you take and this is in one industry that certainly doesn't shy to push unfinished products. People have accepted this because later fixes have been coming with additional content in many cases, but it has set dangerous precedents.

We will probably never know how much of the Kharibdyss was prepared by release time. I don't think the outcry prompted it, though it's still in the realm of possibility. But in any case they weren't pushing back the Q&C release date. Not when they had marketing and release candidate prepared (they already get enough bugs as is )

Anyway they aren't communicating much but it's debatable if they think it's an actual issue. The game is attacked for a variety of different reasons, within these forums or outside (just consider the too much DLC reaction ) and each polemic du jour doesn't translate everytime in sales hit, on the contrary.

My simplest explanation is this is not their culture, this is their first TW game spanning such a large amount of content and progressive rule change. They have a loose player base with different motivation, and game design certainly can't please everyone, they know they can't just target the purest WH fanatic nor the people who only like nice monsters (unless they are, hehe) Things like elite units, upkeep, Ai behaviour, the next faction to add, siege design, don't elicit any consensus. So perhaps from their POV it's better not to delve too much on their internal debate and next objective.

Honestly I'd say that players' biggest issue is not the dates (although it can be one of the most valid reasons) but the revealing of the actual content or comments about it. When did we found out that we would get Vcoast? 2 weeks before it got released or so (maybe 3?).

Look at the dev journals Paradox has versus CA's ''awesome communication skills'' and before tells me of how much they hate Paradox, my answer is ''I don't care''. My emphasis is on the communication not on the personal preferences that players have in regards to the content.

The fact Charybdis was missing from the DLC didn't helped their case nor the overhyping. They didn't came out to simply tell us that ''X unit will come out'' but instead overhyped that constantly without actually revealing it. That's a problem.