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How I think TW:40K could work.

AbmongAbmong Posts: 189Registered Users
Campaign Map

Most things like the risk style campaign map would be easly translatable to the space setting (it's basically like most 4X games). Provinces & settlements = Solar systems & planets. The main differences to the campaign map would be that there are no impassable terrain like forrests and mountains. It would just be the sea of space. But within that you could still have areas that affect attrition like asteroid fields and warp storms. Trade and Diplomacy would work pretty much the same. Ports would still be needed for trade with other solar systems.
  • Factions like Craftworld Eldar and Tyranids would use Sea Horde mechanics like the Vampire Coast faction but with Craftworlds and Hive Fleets being the factions' upgradeable/moveable capital vessels.
  • Eldar/Dark Eldar can enter Webway stance to fast travel and/or to see webway pathes invisible to other factions.
  • The only mechanic that I'm not sure on is how the Dark City of Commorragh would work... The only way I see it working is if the Dark Eldar are made into a new type of semi horde faction. Instead of having moveable capital vessels like Craftworld Eldar, each Dark Eldar Cabal (subfaction) will have their own single access point (call it "X Cabal's Commorragh Gate") to their capital in Commorragh. The Commorragh Gate will be fixed to a static Webway Gate, but can be moved to any other active/discovered Webway Gate. To change gates they will need to perform a ritual which takes X number of turns (maybe depending on distance) and has a cool down period before the Gate (and all the Cabal's Armies within a catchment area) is moved to another selected Webway Gate. This will give other factions the window to attack/raise/close access to the cabal's Commorragh capital. If the Cabal has troops elsewhere when their Gate is closed they can perform a ritual to open a new one at any discovered Webway gate. If the Commorragh capital was raised it will need to be re-colonized a the Webway Gate where it was raised. Only Dark Eldar Cabals can capture/occupy another Cabals' Commorragh capital/Gate to have more than one Commorragh capital/Gate.
  • Craftworld Eldar can also use (unoccupied) Webway Gates to fast travel their armies and Craftworld greater distances.
  • Chaos can traverse the warp and Eye of Terror without penalties. Other races can warp travel like using the march stance. Necrons can fast travel without stats penalities (they don't use the warp).
  • Non Chaos races suffers movement and attrittion penalties when entering the Eye of Terror, rifts and warp storms.
  • Panets will have different climates and race suitability like in TW:WH
  • Army/Fleet encounters in the sector of a planet will be fought on the ground map of the planet. Encounters that happen outside a planetary sector (ie in the Sea of Space) can be fought on Maps designed around the ship of the defender. Like how battles can be fought on Black Arks in TW:WH2 - That would mean no space naval battles (there's the Battlefleet Gothic: Armada games for that...) Siege battles will be siege battles on planetary forts maps.
  • Space Hulks infected with Genestealers can be like the Mysterious Islands
  • Corruption - Much like how it works now in WH:WH but given 40K flavour. Orks will now also spread Corruption/Infestations in the form of Ork Spore Infestations, Tyranid Genestealers Cults, Chaos Cults.
Basically you can compare the some of mechanics and play style of 40K factions to their FB (sort of) counterparts

Spacemarines = Empire
Sisters of Battle = Bretonnia...
Imperial Guards = Dwarfs (loosely because of focus on range/artillery and because the Squats are defunct in 40K)
High Elves = Craftworld Eldar
Dark Elves = Dark Eldar
Orks = Orcs
Tyranids = Skaven/Lizardmen
Necron = Tomb Kings
Chaos Spacemarines = Warriors of Chaos
Daemons = Daemons

No Vampires... closest thing are the Chaos Spacemarines Night Lords. What ever will CA do? :p

Battles and Combat Units

The main problem is the squad based tactics used be Spacemarines and other factions like Eldar/Dark Eldar. Mass blocks of troops only suits Orks, Nids and Imp Guards. They could make the SM units squad sized like in DOW1&2 but make them uber tanky I guess. That would fit the lore somewhat.

Roughly speaking (strength wise not numbers); 1 SM squad = 1 platoon of Imp Guards = 1 big mob of Ork Boyz = 1 mob of Nobz etc.

The other problem would be the SM faction size if they're going to stick to lore. A SM Chapter is basically one SM subfaction with the chapter master as Legendary Lord. But a chapter only has about 1000 marines each, subdivided into x10 companies of 100 > x10 squads of marines > x10 marines in a squad. 1 SM company (1 Lord + 10 squads + 9 units of other units like scouts, dreadnaughts and other vehicles) would be = 1 army stack of 20 units in TW terms.

But then you have non-standard chapters like the Space Wolves who ignores the Codex Astartes and have more marines... Maybe non-standard chapters suffers diplomatic penalities with standard codex chapters?

Finding the right balance for the asymmetric unit sizes according to lore. But I'm sure it could be done since GW and CA seem to have a good working relationship. The key is to compare other units againts 1 squad of marines since having 1 spacemarine company being 1 unit would be way too OP. Plus it would be lore breaking to have 1 spacemarine company fight as a block unless the game is TW30K where Spacemarines still fought as Legions and the Primarchs being Legendary Lords. Everything can be scaled up then if it's set in 30K/Horus Heresy. The Emperor could be LL for the Legio Custodes faction...
Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Monkey kingdom DLC) :#

Comments

  • GettoGeckoGettoGecko Posts: 590Registered Users
    TLDR

    It's not our job as fans and customers to come up with ideas how to make the game, it's our job to convince the devs and management that they want to make it because its fun and will sell well.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 3,588Registered Users
    I’d buy a TWW:40k in a heart beat.
    Lord of the Undermountain
  • tyrannustyrannus Posts: 555Registered Users
    I'd say empire is much more like imperial guard gameplay-wise. I also think that they shouldn't make an all out total war 40k game, but just develop a whole new IP. Something with empire at war space map and battles from dow.

    Believe in humanity!
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 8,436Registered Users
    tyrannus said:

    I'd say Empire is much more like Imperial Guard gameplay-wise.

    True, and if anything the Grail Knights of Bretonnia was the closest thing to a Space Marines of Warhammer 40,000, at least until the Sigmarines of Age of Sigmar was invented by GW.
    4 Fully Independent Monogods Armies would be great for a Storyline about the Great Game in Total War: Warhammer 3.
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Posts: 188Registered Users
    Thing is its a totally different style of warfare. Units don't just line up and shoot each other because even modern technology means you don't have to/is too dangerous to. Factors like cover and fortifications are a major part of 40k combat and is not something the total war game style is suited for at all.
  • tyrannustyrannus Posts: 555Registered Users
    Rob18446 said:

    Thing is its a totally different style of warfare. Units don't just line up and shoot each other because even modern technology means you don't have to/is too dangerous to. Factors like cover and fortifications are a major part of 40k combat and is not something the total war game style is suited for at all.

    CA could always just make a completely new 40k game without tying it to total war license. I think they are really capable devs and they could make a great 40k rts.

    Believe in humanity!
  • ArthasmenethrilArthasmenethril Senior Member Posts: 3,967Registered Users
    tyrannus said:

    Rob18446 said:

    Thing is its a totally different style of warfare. Units don't just line up and shoot each other because even modern technology means you don't have to/is too dangerous to. Factors like cover and fortifications are a major part of 40k combat and is not something the total war game style is suited for at all.

    CA could always just make a completely new 40k game without tying it to total war license. I think they are really capable devs and they could make a great 40k rts.
    Wouldn't be the first time they tried something new like with Spartan: Total Warrior and Alien: Isolation. So if they try something else it'll be fine.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • VarintrazVarintraz Junior Member Posts: 269Registered Users
    good ideas, would buy it i think.
    but prefer WH: Fantasy.
    i never found a Race in WH:40k i really liked and i prefer fantasy a little bit over Sci-Fi
    Team Lizardmen
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Posts: 188Registered Users
    tyrannus said:

    Rob18446 said:

    Thing is its a totally different style of warfare. Units don't just line up and shoot each other because even modern technology means you don't have to/is too dangerous to. Factors like cover and fortifications are a major part of 40k combat and is not something the total war game style is suited for at all.

    CA could always just make a completely new 40k game without tying it to total war license. I think they are really capable devs and they could make a great 40k rts.
    I mean yeah fair enough, but this is a total war forum, doesn't seem much point discussing game ideas that any developer could create.
  • FifthOfSpaghettiFifthOfSpaghetti Posts: 1,545Registered Users
    The best way to represent 40K is to reckon Company of heroes 2 and use that game as a base and scale it up to represent the size of forces.


    Unfortunately Relic done goofed and released whatever the hell it is that they released.


    Suffice to say I doubt we’ll see a DoW4 or another Warhammer game by them.
  • kelembriborkelembribor Posts: 308Registered Users
    edited November 2018
    Vampires = Blood Angels or C'tan are called Star Vampires and some Chaos influenced have those features.

    It would require different engine for battles (if they add one for WW2 or modern combat), maybe if they create engine that supports structure garrisoning , destructible environment, different types of battle ( now we have standard, ambush, siege, chokepoint), fighting in less regimented formations but also in melee and large units and aircraft on battlefield at least in strafing runs.

    They could focus only on land battles since space battles would be hard to implement to satisfactory quality though ideally they would also be in, for me Dawn of War 1 battles in somewhat larger scale would be great , Dawn of War 2 though nice lacked scale and use of formations of vehicles.



    It would be great but maybe they should do historical game as base before they create 40k which has much more different models and mechanics and later expand.

  • AbmongAbmong Posts: 189Registered Users
    edited November 2018
    Rob18446 said:

    Thing is its a totally different style of warfare. Units don't just line up and shoot each other because even modern technology means you don't have to/is too dangerous to. Factors like cover and fortifications are a major part of 40k combat and is not something the total war game style is suited for at all.

    I wouldn't say that. 40K isn't like real world modern warfare. They get away with a lot of crazy stuff that have more in common with medieval style "line battles". Ranged fire from guns is about as effective in 40K as arrows are in TW:WH... Maybe even less so unless it's a specialist heavy weapon/artillery. Just look at Dawn of War 1 & 2. In lore Spacemarines can take a lot of punishment due to power armour and being genetically engineered superhumans etc. They would often charge at enemies, straight into line of fire, being shot to pieces but brushing it off as small flesh wounds before engageing in melee. You find other similar lore explanations for other races too; Orks are tough and super regenerative, Eldar are super fast able to dodge projectiles, Tyranids have strong carapaces etc the list goes on. The only exception are probably the Imp Guards and even they have armour and make up for it in numbers.

    Total War already has cover mechanics. Forests gives cover bonus from ranged fire, that can easily be substituted with building rubble in urban maps. Ramparts also gives cover from direct ranged fire on siege maps. It wouldn't take much work to add aspects those to regular battle maps. Hell even normal terrain height variations can currently be used as cover from direct live of fire in TW:WH. Even your own bloody units blocks your line of sight... You can enter buildings too if you think about it. Siege towers are basically buildings that can move! That can be translated into entering buildings or loading units into armoured vehicles. TW maps already has the potential to have more and better cover systems than even Dawn of War 2 IMO

    So to say TW style is not suited is just plain wrong or lack of imagination IMO... :/

    Vampires = Blood Angels or C'tan are called Star Vampires and some Chaos influenced have those features.

    It would require different engine for battles (if they add one for WW2 or modern combat), maybe if they create engine that supports structure garrisoning , destructible environment, different types of battle ( now we have standard, ambush, siege, chokepoint), fighting in less regimented formations but also in melee and large units and aircraft on battlefield at least in strafing runs.

    They could focus only on land battles since space battles would be hard to implement to satisfactory quality though ideally they would also be in, for me Dawn of War 1 battles in somewhat larger scale would be great , Dawn of War 2 though nice lacked scale and use of formations of vehicles.

    It would be great but maybe they should do historical game as base before they create 40k which has much more different models and mechanics and later expand.

    Lol donno how I missed the Blood Angels = Vampires thing. Ofc!

    As for the garrisoning and destructible buildings. Those are already in the TW engines since the days of Rome TW! and is in TW:WH. They wouldn't need to build a new engine. Walls, Gates and Seige Towers are basically destructible buildings. You can garrison siege towers. So CA can easily my those into garrisoning buidlings and vehicles.
    Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Monkey kingdom DLC) :#
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 8,436Registered Users

    tyrannus said:

    Rob18446 said:

    Thing is its a totally different style of warfare. Units don't just line up and shoot each other because even modern technology means you don't have to/is too dangerous to. Factors like cover and fortifications are a major part of 40k combat and is not something the total war game style is suited for at all.

    CA could always just make a completely new 40k game without tying it to total war license. I think they are really capable devs and they could make a great 40k rts.
    Wouldn't be the first time they tried something new like with Spartan: Total Warrior and Alien: Isolation. So if they try something else it'll be fine.
    Yes, but CA don't have much experience with other game genres, so making a non-total war game is more risky for CA. Also if it's a non-total war game, so it could be a similar game to Alien: Isolation.
    4 Fully Independent Monogods Armies would be great for a Storyline about the Great Game in Total War: Warhammer 3.
  • Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Posts: 1,398Registered Users
    I would play for Warhammer 40k
    How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

    Also, please slow down combat!




  • HoneyBunHoneyBun Senior Member Posts: 3,859Registered Users
    Or it could all take place on one big planet ...

    The new forum makes my eyes bleed

  • AbmongAbmong Posts: 189Registered Users
    HoneyBun said:

    Or it could all take place on one big planet ...

    It would be too similar to Dawn of War and wouldn't really lend itself to the subfactions we're used to in a TW title.
    more subfactions = pleasing the fans and more DLC possibilities for CA to earn money. Win win IMO if it's galactic like 40K is meant to be.
    Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Monkey kingdom DLC) :#
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