Thoughts on the Greenskins after Legendary Mortal Empires Long Victory

#57875

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Lucifer

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Layzan

Excellent post, I'll read through it in more detail once I get a moment. thumbs up!

Theo91#7431

Lucifer said:

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Legendary should be extremely challenging even for high skilled players but that’s not a satisfactory explanation for all the broken mechanics and roster gaps.

Yes the Greenskins have the biggest roster but some of the design of units means that large swathes of the roster is useless. The way savage orcs are designed, you pick the better of the two orc options with the other being redundant. Eg boar boyz vs savage boar boyz - the weaker one is totally redundant

Lucifer

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Legendary should be extremely challenging even for high skilled players but that’s not a satisfactory explanation for all the broken mechanics and roster gaps.

Yes the Greenskins have the biggest roster but some of the design of units means that large swathes of the roster is useless. The way savage orcs are designed, you pick the better of the two orc options with the other being redundant. Eg boar boyz vs savage boar boyz - the weaker one is totally redundant

I like to think of it as challenging playstyle, rather than redundant. Not sure what broken mechanics you're on about, but, when I play as Wurrzag on legendary and only savage orc units, its all about the leadership and frenzy which is pretty nice. Sure, it would be nice to see other savage type units and there are mods that add some, but I feel it makes them very unique and very satisfying being able to win battles against far greater foes that have a much better roster.

Theo91#7431

Lucifer said:

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Legendary should be extremely challenging even for high skilled players but that’s not a satisfactory explanation for all the broken mechanics and roster gaps.

Yes the Greenskins have the biggest roster but some of the design of units means that large swathes of the roster is useless. The way savage orcs are designed, you pick the better of the two orc options with the other being redundant. Eg boar boyz vs savage boar boyz - the weaker one is totally redundant

I like to think of it as challenging playstyle, rather than redundant. Not sure what broken mechanics you're on about, but, when I play as Wurrzag on legendary and only savage orc units, its all about the leadership and frenzy which is pretty nice. Sure, it would be nice to see other savage type units and there are mods that add some, but I feel it makes them very unique and very satisfying being able to win battles against far greater foes that have a much better roster.

You don’t think the waagh mechanic is broken? You’re ok with the unit replenishment?

Doing a whole campaign with one type of unit is fine if you don’t mind but most people resort to borcs as the op notes and that for me gets tiresome after 50 odd turns

MonochromaticSpider#5650

Lucifer said:

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Legendary should be extremely challenging even for high skilled players but that’s not a satisfactory explanation for all the broken mechanics and roster gaps.

Yes the Greenskins have the biggest roster but some of the design of units means that large swathes of the roster is useless. The way savage orcs are designed, you pick the better of the two orc options with the other being redundant. Eg boar boyz vs savage boar boyz - the weaker one is totally redundant

I like to think of it as challenging playstyle, rather than redundant. Not sure what broken mechanics you're on about, but, when I play as Wurrzag on legendary and only savage orc units, its all about the leadership and frenzy which is pretty nice. Sure, it would be nice to see other savage type units and there are mods that add some, but I feel it makes them very unique and very satisfying being able to win battles against far greater foes that have a much better roster.

What does this have to do with Greenie tech tree being rubbish, the unit roster standing up poorly to late game elite spam, the unit replenishment being rubbish, the waaaah! stacks being tiresome at best, and the supply lines factor pushing players to try and match up with enemy elite stacks instead of simply making up for the quality gap with greater numbers?

Are you arguing that because you can slowly and surely turtle your way through an ME campaign then there's no problem whatsoever? Because that's how Orcs play, is it? Turtle slowly and surely?

Lucifer

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Legendary should be extremely challenging even for high skilled players but that’s not a satisfactory explanation for all the broken mechanics and roster gaps.

Yes the Greenskins have the biggest roster but some of the design of units means that large swathes of the roster is useless. The way savage orcs are designed, you pick the better of the two orc options with the other being redundant. Eg boar boyz vs savage boar boyz - the weaker one is totally redundant

I like to think of it as challenging playstyle, rather than redundant. Not sure what broken mechanics you're on about, but, when I play as Wurrzag on legendary and only savage orc units, its all about the leadership and frenzy which is pretty nice. Sure, it would be nice to see other savage type units and there are mods that add some, but I feel it makes them very unique and very satisfying being able to win battles against far greater foes that have a much better roster.

You don’t think the waagh mechanic is broken? You’re ok with the unit replenishment?

Doing a whole campaign with one type of unit is fine if you don’t mind but most people resort to borcs as the op notes and that for me gets tiresome after 50 odd turns

Unit replenishment may be an issue early on, but you can do a lot to fix it. Its a bit of an inconvenience sure, but using a few armies and rotating them helps alleviate it, which is how I play mine while using agents to do as much damage to lords and settlements as possible. As to the mechanics question, its not broken, I don't think CA make broken mechanics as it works as they intend. Sure, it'd be nice to have a bit more control over the spawned armies, but I like to think of it as a fog of war, a delay in orders reaching the army before it moves on, or does what you command it. Mostly on legendary I just use them to hit enemy armies and destroy them as much as possible, while backing them up with agent attacks before my main armies attack.

I tend to turtle it and build good defences before committing to major attacks on a more powerful enemy.

BoldElf

Itharus said:

umie214 said:

Greenskins were recently reworked with SFO. Why don't you play that? Vanilla is terrible in too many ways, I exclusively play SFO personally.

Because that's a mod. That's why. I want the actual game fixed.

@BoldElf In this game? Never figured it out if there is one.

I believe so as I know they enter the battle in the unit card order in your army which I think you can change on the campaign map (not certain but I assume it would be possible just like how you do it in combat).

I'm just unsure if you can chose the order of the armies supporting. Also is it definitely only 4v4 can't you have more its just they trickle in when one of your 40 stack is destroyed or routed?

MonochromaticSpider#5650

Lucifer said:

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Legendary should be extremely challenging even for high skilled players but that’s not a satisfactory explanation for all the broken mechanics and roster gaps.

Yes the Greenskins have the biggest roster but some of the design of units means that large swathes of the roster is useless. The way savage orcs are designed, you pick the better of the two orc options with the other being redundant. Eg boar boyz vs savage boar boyz - the weaker one is totally redundant

I like to think of it as challenging playstyle, rather than redundant. Not sure what broken mechanics you're on about, but, when I play as Wurrzag on legendary and only savage orc units, its all about the leadership and frenzy which is pretty nice. Sure, it would be nice to see other savage type units and there are mods that add some, but I feel it makes them very unique and very satisfying being able to win battles against far greater foes that have a much better roster.

You don’t think the waagh mechanic is broken? You’re ok with the unit replenishment?

Doing a whole campaign with one type of unit is fine if you don’t mind but most people resort to borcs as the op notes and that for me gets tiresome after 50 odd turns

Unit replenishment may be an issue early on, but you can do a lot to fix it. Its a bit of an inconvenience sure, but using a few armies and rotating them helps alleviate it, which is how I play mine while using agents to do as much damage to lords and settlements as possible. As to the mechanics question, its not broken, I don't think CA make broken mechanics as it works as they intend. Sure, it'd be nice to have a bit more control over the spawned armies, but I like to think of it as a fog of war, a delay in orders reaching the army before it moves on, or does what you command it. Mostly on legendary I just use them to hit enemy armies and destroy them as much as possible, while backing them up with agent attacks before my main armies attack.

I tend to turtle it and build good defences before committing to major attacks on a more powerful enemy.

So if you only go through great paints to play as un-Orcish as humanly possible then you can just about get around the problems with the Greenies, therefore there are no problems, therefore all is fine?

Lucifer

MonochromaticSpider said:

Lucifer said:

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

Theo91 said:

Lucifer said:

wunderb0r said:

Very good read.

But while reading all of this, I realized how much this game isn't balanced around legendary

Legendary is balanced to give you the ultimate challenge. Yes, its for masochists and those that like to turtle, but its really satisfying to play as vampires and creep that corruption and raid lands while securing Sylvania. Legendary is my favorite mode, and I fight all battles. Such fun.

Legendary should be extremely challenging even for high skilled players but that’s not a satisfactory explanation for all the broken mechanics and roster gaps.

Yes the Greenskins have the biggest roster but some of the design of units means that large swathes of the roster is useless. The way savage orcs are designed, you pick the better of the two orc options with the other being redundant. Eg boar boyz vs savage boar boyz - the weaker one is totally redundant

I like to think of it as challenging playstyle, rather than redundant. Not sure what broken mechanics you're on about, but, when I play as Wurrzag on legendary and only savage orc units, its all about the leadership and frenzy which is pretty nice. Sure, it would be nice to see other savage type units and there are mods that add some, but I feel it makes them very unique and very satisfying being able to win battles against far greater foes that have a much better roster.

You don’t think the waagh mechanic is broken? You’re ok with the unit replenishment?

Doing a whole campaign with one type of unit is fine if you don’t mind but most people resort to borcs as the op notes and that for me gets tiresome after 50 odd turns

Unit replenishment may be an issue early on, but you can do a lot to fix it. Its a bit of an inconvenience sure, but using a few armies and rotating them helps alleviate it, which is how I play mine while using agents to do as much damage to lords and settlements as possible. As to the mechanics question, its not broken, I don't think CA make broken mechanics as it works as they intend. Sure, it'd be nice to have a bit more control over the spawned armies, but I like to think of it as a fog of war, a delay in orders reaching the army before it moves on, or does what you command it. Mostly on legendary I just use them to hit enemy armies and destroy them as much as possible, while backing them up with agent attacks before my main armies attack.

I tend to turtle it and build good defences before committing to major attacks on a more powerful enemy.

So if you only go through great paints to play as un-Orcish as humanly possible then you can just about get around the problems with the Greenies, therefore there are no problems, therefore all is fine?

I guess I don't see it as a problem like you do, nor do I think it un-orcish, which is silly, since I never actually said I never raided or sacked settlements that I could. I think of it rather of being a unique sub culture of the main Greenskin faction, ableit a more primitive design and roster, that does have access to stronger main force faction units. I think you'll find on legendary most factions will turtle as its harder to get footholds, and this is quite common and not unique to the Greenskins or their sub cultures. I have found the same with the Von Carsteins, of which it did actually take me around to turn 80 to fully secure The Moot from counter attacks from Stirland.

So yes, again, I do think its fine and a unique challenge, but I do agree that it would be nice to see a bit more variety in their roster for those that do wish to fully play them without access to the main-force faction units.

Nyxilis#3646

It's blatantly un-orcish. They rush to battle with little consideration and yes it causes them problems but orcs don't care. They literally live for battle.

So it's the wrong place for a unique challenge as it makes the game completely ignore it's intended fantasy. Which is a bunch of crazed orcs looking to sack, loot, and pillage with little care of self.

Playing like defensively and having to do that does not feel one bit orcish and this is a problem.

There are already plenty of turtle races if you simply desire that.

Daarien

well, i tried the greenskins, and my grimgor campaing now is ok, but skarssnik, its a hell lot of more dificulty, i get steamrolled by angrund and karak az karaz, with belegar or any [email protected] its his name with the 3 !@#$ ghost agents what they totally wipe the health of my army. reading your forum post, im more calm now because all what you say, i thought it just my impressions, but no, really greenskins its not about skill, its about lucky of not getting focused like that, and greenskins have no resources to play the campaing.

all you say its was true, and even if you win, the gameplay isnt nice.
ps - sorry for bad english.