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Dwarf Campaign balance state...

KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users
Ok guys, so its been a couple campaigns that ghe Dwarfs just get completely and jtterly anihilated, there is not a single dwarfen faction left by turn 80 something, making the greenskin AI extremely powerfull, The greenskins should struggle à whole lot at taking down the dwarfs, the dawi should not really expand too much, but they should get a huge autoresolve bonus when defending à city, otherwise they get destroyed and its kinda anoying to have no dwarfs friends on the map...
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  • SelakahSelakah Posts: 260Registered Users
    My experience with the Dwarf AI is that, while they never control a lot of settlements, they tend to be incredibly stubborn and hold on to their last settlements for dear life. You talk about autoresolve; Dwarfs already have one of the strongest autoresolves in the entire game. All you have to do, as a player, is slightly tip the balance of the Badlands in favor of the Dwarfs and they will be come an unstoppable juggernaut.
  • innerpinnerp Junior Member Posts: 199Registered Users
    problem with giving the dwarf AI that defensive bonus is that it only takes greenskins one siege loss to concede huge swaths of territory back to the dwarfs.
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users
    innerp said:

    problem with giving the dwarf AI that defensive bonus is that it only takes greenskins one siege loss to concede huge swaths of territory back to the dwarfs.

    The dwarf AI is extremely passive, making it stronger only in defense will encourage their survival and a longer conflict in the badlands, the dwarfs should not be taken down so easily its utterly stupid. Making the dwarf AI attack extremely rarely and with a bonus def would make for a balanced and fun thing.

    I understand you are afraid of the Dawi tode, but that was because the dwarf AI was stupisly agressive.

    It is not normal nor acceptable that one of the main warhammer race is completely obliterated in every part of the world in less than 100 turns
  • Boombastek91Boombastek91 Posts: 787Registered Users
    Well after QnC update Dawi tide was stoped in 80% of games. And after VP update GS get a more stuff in expande. It ended now dwarfs get killed in 50% of games. At least on legendary idk how on lower difficulties.

    I just know that GS roster so bad (compare to tww2 races, even Skaven better) and CA cant separete AR for player and AI units.

    That all ended in hard (very hard) starting difficulties for Dwarf campaign, however on campaign chose screen tooltip said easy. Idk for who it easy but it very hard.
    So this all GS cheat stuff (tons bonus) ended in few things.
    I dont know how to start campaign as Thorgrim. He just weaker than White dwarf and you had no chance vs GS tide.
    So your only option is Grombrindal. He can kill enemy lord and had flamethrouers. So you can on VH battles had a favor, and ofc his bonus from gods. +10 attack and def to all melee units it only save you from getting rekt on legendary/VH battles. Cos enemy GS even from 1 minor setlement can recruit 2.5 stack. And Dawi repleshment not let you fast recover from this battles.


    Complitely other thing with Karak kadrin. Ungrim after beta Festag just steam rolled over campaign like easy, hoverever tooltip said Hard. And mostly cos 60% bonus repleshment on slayers and 1 point uniq skills (prev was 3 point).

    GS campaign, too not work. Again bad repleshment. (dwarf at least can get repleshment in blue skills) but GS must couple turns just wait afk for no reason.

    GS mechanic is not work. Waagh as second army completed trash. You cant rely on them. Waagh as ability open in yellow skills tree. CA why? Just why you made it. Every one first of all get Red skills, than only on 30+ lvls get Waagh.
    This must being fixed. I can acept GS roster, cos Waagh ability fix their problem with dmg complitely (just multiple lords and you had 3/4 of time Waagh).
    I love beta Festag change on GS. Goblin lord at last became great (at first turn i just hire goblin lord and after few battles killing Grimgor, why legendary lords cant be delete, *facepalm*). The only race where 2 LL from 4 are weaker than generic. New red skills became cool.
  • innerpinnerp Junior Member Posts: 199Registered Users
    Kranox said:

    innerp said:

    problem with giving the dwarf AI that defensive bonus is that it only takes greenskins one siege loss to concede huge swaths of territory back to the dwarfs.

    The dwarf AI is extremely passive, making it stronger only in defense will encourage their survival and a longer conflict in the badlands, the dwarfs should not be taken down so easily its utterly stupid. Making the dwarf AI attack extremely rarely and with a bonus def would make for a balanced and fun thing.

    I understand you are afraid of the Dawi tode, but that was because the dwarf AI was stupisly agressive.

    It is not normal nor acceptable that one of the main warhammer race is completely obliterated in every part of the world in less than 100 turns
    im saying that the greenskins are more susceptible to getting rolled over on one major defeat than other races. it sets them back to having to rebuild fightiness to regain their waaagh, or worse if the army isnt destroyed the first time they'll end up stuck in low fightiness while trying to recruit.

    dwarfs already have a superior auto resolve over greenskins by way of superior units, give them a defensive bonus and greenskins will never defeat them again. the main problem in why dwarfs get rolled is waaaghs and how quickly the ai generates them, letting them run them down via numbers. a secondary reason on dwarfs getting rolled is due to the number of enemies they start with, causing them to be too scared to expand their territory, often times not even daring to complete the silver road province.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 15,000Registered Users
    This I don't mind. Dwarfs are a race with the back to the wall and they should be facing down extinction unless the player helps them.

    Also, Dwarfs are plenty aggressive, I don't know what people are talking about. Karak Azul almost always takes the lower half of the badlands and whenever I do a Queek campaign, that's the biggest obstacle before I can reach K8P.

  • makar55makar55 Posts: 1,344Registered Users
    Kranox said:

    Ok guys, so its been a couple campaigns that ghe Dwarfs just get completely and jtterly anihilated, there is not a single dwarfen faction left by turn 80 something, making the greenskin AI extremely powerfull, The greenskins should struggle à whole lot at taking down the dwarfs, the dawi should not really expand too much, but they should get a huge autoresolve bonus when defending à city, otherwise they get destroyed and its kinda anoying to have no dwarfs friends on the map...

    Autoresolve bonus only for AI, God please only for AI.

  • DarkLordDDarkLordD Posts: 1,810Registered Users
    First dwarfs dominated, now they don't! Haha. Pesky little things don't know what they want !

    But all jokes aside, I really have to admit they kinda do fine in most of my campaigns. What mostly happens is ;

    They are reduced to a few cities left. Mostly there capital, but then in mid game they suddenly start to confederate with everybody else. And boom, dwarfs make a comeback, and start climbing the ladder again.

    How I experienced it, i got some fair amount of GS dominance vs Dwarf.
    Dark Lord D the Fearsome (I) ~~~ First Dark Lord of the Old World.

    --~~ let them hate me as long as they fear me ------------------------- Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, Roman Emperor
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 1,622Registered Users
    DarkLordD said:

    First dwarfs dominated, now they don't! Haha. Pesky little things don't know what they want !

    But all jokes aside, I really have to admit they kinda do fine in most of my campaigns. What mostly happens is ;

    They are reduced to a few cities left. Mostly there capital, but then in mid game they suddenly start to confederate with everybody else. And boom, dwarfs make a comeback, and start climbing the ladder again.

    How I experienced it, i got some fair amount of GS dominance vs Dwarf.

    This, if the greenskins cant defeat Dwarfs to a certain point the dwarfs start a massive steamroll and take everything back.

    especially if the player attacks the Vampires.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 3,606Registered Users
    I really prefer the current state. Herre Dwarfs mostly seem to do okay unless they are wiped out early.
    Lord of the Undermountain
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 1,519Registered Users
    I've never seen Dwarfs going poor in my campaigns since TKs. Belegar sometimes gets wiped out, but Thorgrim always does well.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • Boombastek91Boombastek91 Posts: 787Registered Users
    Enforest said:

    I've never seen Dwarfs going poor in my campaigns since TKs. Belegar sometimes gets wiped out, but Thorgrim always does well.

    Just started new Settra campaign, around at 80 turn all dwarf wipe out. Skarsnik cant deal with Angrund by self, but when conf by GS in 10 turns maybe wipe clan Angrund.

    125 turn GS had 50 setlement, rank 2. Mine rank is 1. Soon coming Archeon, and I very close to war with GS. Right now clan pestilence and blessed dread declare war to me. And I almost not know what to do. GS cheats too much. 50 setlements what a ****.
    Bretonia wiped by Wulfrik. Empire by WoC. Only order factions left Mazda and Tyrion. And only Setra by self must opposite to chaos DE Skaven GS and Vampires.
    That aint normal.
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users

    This I don't mind. Dwarfs are a race with the back to the wall and they should be facing down extinction unless the player helps them.

    Also, Dwarfs are plenty aggressive, I don't know what people are talking about. Karak Azul almost always takes the lower half of the badlands and whenever I do a Queek campaign, that's the biggest obstacle before I can reach K8P.

    Thats kinda false if your talking about lore, since the rise of Thorgrim the dwarfen race has been on the rise again expanding and getting more powerfull, so ots just plainly false, ots called the age of reckoning. Then in my last 3 campaign there is skmply no more dwarfs in the entire game, their Ai AR seems like **** I saw 1 stack of Zombies and skeletons led by a normal vampire lord take down zhufbar wich had 15 garrison and an army of 8... kinda dumb
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users
    makar55 said:

    Kranox said:

    Ok guys, so its been a couple campaigns that ghe Dwarfs just get completely and jtterly anihilated, there is not a single dwarfen faction left by turn 80 something, making the greenskin AI extremely powerfull, The greenskins should struggle à whole lot at taking down the dwarfs, the dawi should not really expand too much, but they should get a huge autoresolve bonus when defending à city, otherwise they get destroyed and its kinda anoying to have no dwarfs friends on the map...

    Autoresolve bonus only for AI, God please only for AI.

    Yeah that too I get the equal AR when I got 3 Grail knights, 2 Grail Guardians, 2 RPK, 1 RHK, Mazed out loeun, the rest foot squires against a garrison of 10.........
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users

    DarkLordD said:

    First dwarfs dominated, now they don't! Haha. Pesky little things don't know what they want !

    But all jokes aside, I really have to admit they kinda do fine in most of my campaigns. What mostly happens is ;

    They are reduced to a few cities left. Mostly there capital, but then in mid game they suddenly start to confederate with everybody else. And boom, dwarfs make a comeback, and start climbing the ladder again.

    How I experienced it, i got some fair amount of GS dominance vs Dwarf.

    This, if the greenskins cant defeat Dwarfs to a certain point the dwarfs start a massive steamroll and take everything back.

    especially if the player attacks the Vampires.
    Nahh with their passive AI it just saves them from anihilation, it only happened to me once in my 5 last campaign they ate still sitting there with like 5 settlements
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users

    Enforest said:

    I've never seen Dwarfs going poor in my campaigns since TKs. Belegar sometimes gets wiped out, but Thorgrim always does well.

    Just started new Settra campaign, around at 80 turn all dwarf wipe out. Skarsnik cant deal with Angrund by self, but when conf by GS in 10 turns maybe wipe clan Angrund.

    125 turn GS had 50 setlement, rank 2. Mine rank is 1. Soon coming Archeon, and I very close to war with GS. Right now clan pestilence and blessed dread declare war to me. And I almost not know what to do. GS cheats too much. 50 setlements what a ****.
    Bretonia wiped by Wulfrik. Empire by WoC. Only order factions left Mazda and Tyrion. And only Setra by self must opposite to chaos DE Skaven GS and Vampires.
    That aint normal.
    Same **** happened to me, it just gets out of control and because of AR cheat from greenskin AI you need to fight manually every battle wich is a pain in the ass
  • AryndelinAryndelin Junior Member Posts: 843Registered Users
    edited January 12
    Tbf, i always see GS dominate, even with a mod disabling waaagh's altogether.

    Dwarves do ok the first 100 turns then get obliterated by the GS who at that point easily overwhelm the dawi with their numerous stacks.

    GS factions also usually comes out on top 5 in the power rankings.

    I don't mind them being strong, but sheesh i do wish for variety >.<
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 5,190Registered Users
    Kranox said:

    Ok guys, so its been a couple campaigns that ghe Dwarfs just get completely and jtterly anihilated, there is not a single dwarfen faction left by turn 80 something, making the greenskin AI extremely powerfull, The greenskins should struggle à whole lot at taking down the dwarfs, the dawi should not really expand too much, but they should get a huge autoresolve bonus when defending à city, otherwise they get destroyed and its kinda anoying to have no dwarfs friends on the map...

    Dwarfs already have an extreme autoresolve bonus. Not only are their units some of the most powerful in the game, but Greenskins have an inherently crap autoresolve value AND Waaagh! armies have an EXTREME auto resolve DEBUFF. Like seriously, 7 dwarf warriors a lord and a thane will defeat a full Waaagh! stack of night goblins, squigs, and a pair of giants. I'm not even joking.

    Right now the reason Dwarf AI gets stomped is mostly due to a few things:

    1) Dwarf AI was once made very aggressive, then it was overly pacified. Now Dwarfs just don't really make enough armies to really defend their land, plus the landscape itself can make defending their settlements harder. Dwarf AI needs just a smidgeon of a push back towards the aggressive.

    2) Vampire Shenanigans. Seriously... Vampires are off the hook in Mortal Empires. They also immediately feed on the northern Dwarf factions because in Mortal Empires everyone just conquers everything and Zhufbar, as a minor faction, has an auto resolve debuff against the 4 LL in that tiny concentrated area *and* they don't have enough armies to defend their land (see above). On top of that, Vampiric Corruption mechanic is absolutely retardedly over-powered right now and Dwarfs just can't counter it without some higher tier very expensive buildings.

    3) Greenskins AI was fixed. They now actually recruit decently, prioritize strong unit producing buildings, and their aggressiveness seems to have been set to, well, Greenskins level (ie: maximum). On top of that, the AI has regeneration bonuses, can recruit more units at once than a player, and has econ bonuses to let them do things like get tier 5 everywhere faster and spam armies of black orcs. To top it off? Greenskins AI basically always has positive fightiness now, so they get Waaagh! armies constantly for free.

    So what's the take? Dwarfs AI need their military focus bumped up a little so that they make more armies and concentrate on defending their lands better. Vampires need a crazy major NERF, more or less across the board. Dwarfs (and everyone, really) need easier/cheaper access to Untainted Pressure desperately, and Greenskins AI? Not sure, perhaps see how Dwarfs do with the other stuff fixed then make a call. Cuz as it stands Greenskins AI gets stomped pretty hard after the Dwarfs are dead (Tomb Kings, Vampires), so I think the problem is mostly with the Dwarfs AI and the Vampire shenanigans.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 5,190Registered Users
    Just in case you were talking about Dwarf Campaigns as a PLAYER??

    Honestly... Greenskins should be no problem. Just turtle up until Silver Road is appropriately shiny* and then storm out and obliterate them. Vampires will be the annoying part. Dwarf player campaigns are 100% fine and really quite easy so long as you don't over extend early game (which is a problem for everyone).



    *Seriously. You can hold that one province basically for like 150 turns if you want to before you should even start to feel pressured on the defense. Manually fight the battles with the support of your walled garrisons and you will literally be able to beat 4+ stacks of Greenskins at once without too much trouble.
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users
    Hummm idk if you have seen, but greenskin AI is broken atm, it got such a good AR bonus, Dwarfs dont have kne, simply that their units are good.
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    Just in case you were talking about Dwarf Campaigns as a PLAYER??

    Honestly... Greenskins should be no problem. Just turtle up until Silver Road is appropriately shiny* and then storm out and obliterate them. Vampires will be the annoying part. Dwarf player campaigns are 100% fine and really quite easy so long as you don't over extend early game (which is a problem for everyone).



    *Seriously. You can hold that one province basically for like 150 turns if you want to before you should even start to feel pressured on the defense. Manually fight the battles with the support of your walled garrisons and you will literally be able to beat 4+ stacks of Greenskins at once without too much trouble.

    Nahh AI dwarfs, after 100 turns, there is no more dawi left on the map.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 5,190Registered Users
    Kranox said:

    Hummm idk if you have seen, but greenskin AI is broken atm, it got such a good AR bonus, Dwarfs dont have kne, simply that their units are good.

    It's because the AI rushes Black Orcs when the Dwarfs are still using Warriors and a few Long Beards.

    AI has huge growth and econ bonuses... Greenskins currently use them like mad. They're pumping black orcs really fast.

    Dwarfs are... restrained. Their AI needs a tweak again. Do you remember when they had Dwarfs fully unchained? There was Dawi-Tide across the land and they just steamrolled everything.

    Then they got restrained and now there's Vampires everywhere.
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    Kranox said:

    Hummm idk if you have seen, but greenskin AI is broken atm, it got such a good AR bonus, Dwarfs dont have kne, simply that their units are good.

    It's because the AI rushes Black Orcs when the Dwarfs are still using Warriors and a few Long Beards.

    AI has huge growth and econ bonuses... Greenskins currently use them like mad. They're pumping black orcs really fast.

    Dwarfs are... restrained. Their AI needs a tweak again. Do you remember when they had Dwarfs fully unchained? There was Dawi-Tide across the land and they just steamrolled everything.

    Then they got restrained and now there's Vampires everywhere.
    Nahh I mean, 3 Grail knights, 2 GG, 1 RHK, the green knight, 2 RPK, Maxed out louen, the rest rank 9 foot squires with the blessing of the lady against 4 Orc big uns and a couple of goblins for a total of 12 in an undefended settlement... 50/50 there is multiple example of this, just look a bit above, the AR goves bonus to Orcs atm wich is dumb
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 5,190Registered Users
    O_o

    If it does, it's GS AI only, then, lol.
  • AryndelinAryndelin Junior Member Posts: 843Registered Users
    I find it ironic everyone complained about the Dawitide, now people are complaining about the greentide :P

  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users
    Aryndelin said:

    I find it ironic everyone complained about the Dawitide, now people are complaining about the greentide :P

    Haha yeah, was basically want the middle, but CA struggles to get there
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 15,000Registered Users
    Aryndelin said:

    I find it ironic everyone complained about the Dawitide, now people are complaining about the greentide :P

    Greentide is good and proper, I will never complain about it. Dawitide was dumb. They're has-beens on the verge of extinction, they should never dominate without the player making them.

  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Posts: 460Registered Users
    edited January 13

    Aryndelin said:

    I find it ironic everyone complained about the Dawitide, now people are complaining about the greentide :P

    Greentide is good and proper, I will never complain about it. Dawitide was dumb. They're has-beens on the verge of extinction, they should never dominate without the player making them.
    Dwarftide was wrong as dwarfs are not really the kind of species to suddenly invade the flatlands beyond their mountains. And they're supposed to be in decline so why are they suddenly booming like mad?

    But Greentide was just as weird, as Greenies are not a single big unified kingdom, meaning those super-rapid confederations that caused Greentide in the first place were no more loreful than a Dwarf-Greenie alliance to contain the humans. In fact, seeing that huge area remain as a stable and unfractured Orcish empire is every bit as lore-breaking as the dwarftide.

    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 2,568Registered Users

    Aryndelin said:

    I find it ironic everyone complained about the Dawitide, now people are complaining about the greentide :P

    Greentide is good and proper, I will never complain about it. Dawitide was dumb. They're has-beens on the verge of extinction, they should never dominate without the player making them.
    Well not since Thorgrims reign, the age of reckoning is an age where the dwarfs start expanding again. They were before the end time rising again, the dawitide was too much tough, they should stay in their mountains
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 5,190Registered Users

    Aryndelin said:

    I find it ironic everyone complained about the Dawitide, now people are complaining about the greentide :P

    Greentide is good and proper, I will never complain about it. Dawitide was dumb. They're has-beens on the verge of extinction, they should never dominate without the player making them.
    Dwarftide was wrong as dwarfs are not really the kind of species to suddenly invade the flatlands beyond their mountains. And they're supposed to be in decline so why are they suddenly booming like mad?

    But Greentide was just as weird, as Greenies are not a single big unified kingdom, meaning those super-rapid confederations that caused Greentide in the first place were no more loreful than a Dwarf-Greenie alliance to contain the humans. In fact, seeing that huge area remain as a stable and unfractured Orcish empire is every bit as lore-breaking as the dwarftide.

    Not really. Greenskins do periodically mob up into epic waaagh!s. No one knows what would happen if one of these actually won, because it's never happened. My guess is that the combined will to fight of all the Greenskins would result in Wurrzag getting the ability to 'telyport' greenskins onto some other world and kick butt over there.

    In the **** times, I think Grimgor actually did basically wind up covering a large portion of the world in a mega-waaagh!.
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