Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

What if Ikit Claw and Tehenhauin...

2»

Comments

  • DatHomieSilverSurferDatHomieSilverSurfer Posts: 18Registered Users
    Throt is my runner up for Ikit, he just seems so much more visually striking than Thanqol and has a cool thematic unit roster he could come with
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 882Registered Users
    Let's have Tiqtaq'to and Thanquol.

    How about that?

    Set the cat among the pigeons and destroy about twenty different theories simultaneously.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 2,563Registered Users
    edited January 12
    Can we stop pretending like the possible LL choices have all the bearing in the world over which units get added with the LP? Prior LP lords had maybe 1 unit per pack which was closely tied to that lord's theme, some more and some less. The rest of the units were just whatever was leftover and cheap.

    Knights of the Blazing Sun and Free Company militia don't have all that much to do with Volkmar, the Mortis Engine isn't all that closely linked with Ghorst, Belegar has no special relationship with either Rangers or Bolt Throwers, Shadow Warriors are Alith Anar's thing not Alarielle's, and Hellebron is more tied with Witch Elves than she is with Doomfire Warlocks or even Sisters of Slaughter for that matter.

    The factors which determine which units get added have more to do with what's left from the army book and what CA can most economically produce. The lord's theme may be a factor, but it's ultimately secondary to other things. With that in mind, there's no reason we can't get Moulder units with Ikit or Skryre units with Throt.
    Keep Grombrindal in KaK, K8P should be 10 slots, Dogs of War should be a horde, DoC should be one race- Change my mind

    Give us a Slayer Hero!
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Posts: 1,862Registered Users
    ben8vtedu said:

    Can we stop pretending like the possible LL choices have all the bearing in the world over which units get added with the LP? Prior LP lords had maybe 1 unit per pack which was closely tied to that lord's theme, some more and some less. The rest of the units were just whatever was leftover and cheap.

    Knights of the Blazing Sun and Free Company militia don't have all that much to do with Volkmar, the Mortis Engine isn't all that closely linked with Ghorst, Belegar has no special relationship with either Rangers or Bolt Throwers, Shadow Warriors are Alith Anar's thing not Alarielle's, and Hellebron is more tied with Witch Elves than she is with Doomfire Warlocks or even Sisters of Slaughter for that matter.

    The factors which determine which units get added have more to do with what's left from the army book and what CA can most economically produce. The lord's theme may be a factor, but it's ultimately secondary to other things. With that in mind, there's no reason we can't get Moulder units with Ikit or Skryre units with Throt.

    Exactly.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 12,090Registered Users
    ben8vtedu said:

    Can we stop pretending like the possible LL choices have all the bearing in the world over which units get added with the LP? Prior LP lords had maybe 1 unit per pack which was closely tied to that lord's theme, some more and some less. The rest of the units were just whatever was leftover and cheap.

    Knights of the Blazing Sun and Free Company militia don't have all that much to do with Volkmar, the Mortis Engine isn't all that closely linked with Ghorst, Belegar has no special relationship with either Rangers or Bolt Throwers, Shadow Warriors are Alith Anar's thing not Alarielle's, and Hellebron is more tied with Witch Elves than she is with Doomfire Warlocks or even Sisters of Slaughter for that matter.

    The factors which determine which units get added have more to do with what's left from the army book and what CA can most economically produce. The lord's theme may be a factor, but it's ultimately secondary to other things. With that in mind, there's no reason we can't get Moulder units with Ikit or Skryre units with Throt.

    Solid point
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Gotrek_BeastslayerGotrek_Beastslayer Posts: 1,089Registered Users

    We also must remember that Moulder monsters will most likely require more unique animations and models which is big no-no for CA




    WH Novels:

    - Vampire Wars: The Von Carstein Trilogy: 10/10
    - Gilead's Blood: 8/10
    - Riders of the Dead: 9/10
    - Empire in Chaos: 9/10
    - Mark of Damnation: 7.5/10
    - Mark of Heresy: 7/10
    - G&F: Trollslayer: 6.5/10
    - G&F: Skavenslayer: 9.5/10
    - G&F: Daemonslayer: 10/10
    - G&F: Dragonslayer: 8/10
    - G&F: Beastslayer: 8.5/10
    - G&F: Vampireslayer: 7/10
    - G&F: Giantslayer: 7.5/10
  • MagicspookMagicspook Posts: 62Registered Users
    ben8vtedu said:

    Can we stop pretending like the possible LL choices have all the bearing in the world over which units get added with the LP? Prior LP lords had maybe 1 unit per pack which was closely tied to that lord's theme, some more and some less. The rest of the units were just whatever was leftover and cheap.

    Knights of the Blazing Sun and Free Company militia don't have all that much to do with Volkmar, the Mortis Engine isn't all that closely linked with Ghorst, Belegar has no special relationship with either Rangers or Bolt Throwers, Shadow Warriors are Alith Anar's thing not Alarielle's, and Hellebron is more tied with Witch Elves than she is with Doomfire Warlocks or even Sisters of Slaughter for that matter.

    The factors which determine which units get added have more to do with what's left from the army book and what CA can most economically produce. The lord's theme may be a factor, but it's ultimately secondary to other things. With that in mind, there's no reason we can't get Moulder units with Ikit or Skryre units with Throt.

    Fair point.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 8,861Registered Users
    edited January 12
    Ludbone said:

    Draxynnic said:

    Ludbone said:

    SiWI said:

    I don't know about tehenhauin, but for Ikit the units missing would speak for him, strongly.

    But we have tons of missing Moulder Clan units tho.
    Only if you're counting units from the Clan Moulder variant list - the only Moulder units missing from the army book are Giant Rats and Rat Swarms, and CA isn't using swarms.
    But there are also Forge World, Older armybooks, End Times and other sources for the Moulder Clan units. Something that CA stated and confirmed to take into consideration in order to create rosters and/or units alone.

    Giant Rats, Chimerat, Brood Horror, Wolf Rats, Burrowing Behemot, Armored Rat Ogres, Great Pox Rat, Stormfiends (even if this one is a mix of Skryre and Moulder). . .

    That said I doubt that Ikit Claw will be the LL in a LP Rivalry against Lizardmen.
    Well CA had used Forge World models only for factions who need extra units, Skaven are not Norsca.
    4 Fully Independent Monogods Armies would be great for a Storyline about the Great Game in Total War: Warhammer 3.
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Posts: 314Registered Users
    But Tehenhauin would need a skink lord option like the skink oracle. Same thing was with skarsnik, a goblin based playstyle needs more goblins instead orcs. Something similar, but not that hardcore comes with adding tehenhauin.

    If we get him (LP or flc) its more likely that red crested skinks become regular unit instead of ror.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 1,562Registered Users

    We also must remember that Moulder monsters will most likely require more unique animations and models which is big no-no for CA


    Wait.... Theres an anime MiB?!?! Or is that just a reference?

    But I still maintain Ikkit ftw. In all honesty though if it is Thrott his ME campaign start pos is amazing, especially if/when (probs game 3) Kislev gets added. Though Skavenblight is certainly a good start and would be even better with Southern Realms/DoW.
  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,220Registered Users

    If it had to be two others I'd go with Nakai (bringing a focus on sking/kroxigor mixed tactics that currently don't exist in the game) with a northern start location, since he can appear anywhere, fighting Throt and Clan Moulder (who greatly expands the Skaven's monster options).

    Alternatively, Kroak vs Throt. Kroak wouldn't have as strong an army theme as Tehenhauin (Sotek or skink themed units) or Nakai (kroxigor/skink synergy) but he could maybe get Relic Priests as a unit and maybe bring along some of the more range and utility focused units that would otherwise have gone to Tehenhauin. None of the other Lizardmen options interest me that much.

    Nakai vs Throt is a pretty awesome idea for a LP actually.

    Just gonna put the worst possible outcome here since no one's said it yet. Tuichi Huichi vs Ghoritch. Think on that and let the horror sink in.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer
  • EliacTheEmeraldTeethEliacTheEmeraldTeeth Posts: 330Registered Users
    Wyvax said:

    If it had to be two others I'd go with Nakai (bringing a focus on sking/kroxigor mixed tactics that currently don't exist in the game) with a northern start location, since he can appear anywhere, fighting Throt and Clan Moulder (who greatly expands the Skaven's monster options).

    Alternatively, Kroak vs Throt. Kroak wouldn't have as strong an army theme as Tehenhauin (Sotek or skink themed units) or Nakai (kroxigor/skink synergy) but he could maybe get Relic Priests as a unit and maybe bring along some of the more range and utility focused units that would otherwise have gone to Tehenhauin. None of the other Lizardmen options interest me that much.

    Nakai vs Throt is a pretty awesome idea for a LP actually.

    Just gonna put the worst possible outcome here since no one's said it yet. Tuichi Huichi vs Ghoritch. Think on that and let the horror sink in.
    Why not skretch?
    I assure you, we are very real. And we have come for you and your realm.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 12,090Registered Users
    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    But Tehenhauin would need a skink lord option like the skink oracle. Same thing was with skarsnik, a goblin based playstyle needs more goblins instead orcs. Something similar, but not that hardcore comes with adding tehenhauin.

    If we get him (LP or flc) its more likely that red crested skinks become regular unit instead of ror.

    Good point, there really is no reason not to add RCS as anything but a regular unit.

    I just don't see an option for LM LP other than Tehenhauin. Skaven have a bunch of options, but LM? Who else? Kroak?
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Gotrek_BeastslayerGotrek_Beastslayer Posts: 1,089Registered Users
    edited January 13
    Goatforce said:

    We also must remember that Moulder monsters will most likely require more unique animations and models which is big no-no for CA


    Wait.... Theres an anime MiB?!?! Or is that just a reference?

    But I still maintain Ikkit ftw. In all honesty though if it is Thrott his ME campaign start pos is amazing, especially if/when (probs game 3) Kislev gets added. Though Skavenblight is certainly a good start and would be even better with Southern Realms/DoW.
    :D Sadly nope.

    That's just a random moment (of pure poetry -citation needed) from "Haiyore! Nyaruko-san".
    A (...sexy...) parody (out-of-the-box) of H. P. Lovecraft's Mythos.


    WH Novels:

    - Vampire Wars: The Von Carstein Trilogy: 10/10
    - Gilead's Blood: 8/10
    - Riders of the Dead: 9/10
    - Empire in Chaos: 9/10
    - Mark of Damnation: 7.5/10
    - Mark of Heresy: 7/10
    - G&F: Trollslayer: 6.5/10
    - G&F: Skavenslayer: 9.5/10
    - G&F: Daemonslayer: 10/10
    - G&F: Dragonslayer: 8/10
    - G&F: Beastslayer: 8.5/10
    - G&F: Vampireslayer: 7/10
    - G&F: Giantslayer: 7.5/10
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Posts: 1,869Registered Users

    Well, for me all missing Skaven lords would be perfect.

    The only fail they could make, would be lord Kroak for Lizardmen as the DLC character.

    Outside of this being already several months late when counting the ages taken to make vampire pirates when they should have been making this.

  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 1,800Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    makar55 said:

    Little reminder of leaked voiceovers.

    vo_sel_skv_Beastlings_of_Seep_Gore
    vo_sel_skv_Blightscabs_Plaguepack
    vo_sel_skv_Clan_Vulkn_Tailslashers
    vo_sel_skv_Council_Guard
    vo_sel_skv_Deathvermin_of_Clan_Rictus
    vo_sel_skv_Flint_Ratz
    vo_sel_skv_Giant_Rat_Pack
    vo_sel_skv_Great_Claw_of_Feesik
    vo_sel_skv_Hallscurrys_Chosen
    vo_sel_skv_Ratling_Gun_Weapons_Team
    vo_sel_skv_Scabrous_Elders_of_the_Pox
    vo_sel_skv_The_Gaseous_Ones
    vo_sel_skv_The_Needless_Less
    vo_sel_skv_The_Skurry_Stabbers
    vo_sel_skv_The_Wolfrats
    vo_sel_skv_Volkn_Fire_tails
    vo_sel_skv_Warplock_Jezzails

    There was a pretty rapid clarification that they take more voiceovers than they make final units, so we won't necessarily see that many.
    Ludbone said:

    Draxynnic said:

    Ludbone said:

    SiWI said:

    I don't know about tehenhauin, but for Ikit the units missing would speak for him, strongly.

    But we have tons of missing Moulder Clan units tho.
    Only if you're counting units from the Clan Moulder variant list - the only Moulder units missing from the army book are Giant Rats and Rat Swarms, and CA isn't using swarms.
    But there are also Forge World, Older armybooks, End Times and other sources for the Moulder Clan units. Something that CA stated and confirmed to take into consideration in order to create rosters and/or units alone.

    Giant Rats, Chimerat, Brood Horror, Wolf Rats, Burrowing Behemot, Armored Rat Ogres, Great Pox Rat, Stormfiends (even if this one is a mix of Skryre and Moulder). . .

    That said I doubt that Ikit Claw will be the LL in a LP Rivalry against Lizardmen.
    Take into consideration, yes, but they're usually used where army book units are insufficient. Forge World was used to fill out Norsca and Vampirates, but I don't think we've seen it used for a race with an official 8E (or 8E-compatible, which the 7E skaven army book certainly counts as) army book exists. In those circumstances, they've generally either stuck to what's in the army book, or started there and filled in gaps with fluff mentions.

    In addition, most people seem to be anticipating the Ratling Guns and the Jezzails to be the most obvious additions, and they're clearly Skryre.

    With respect to rivalry: The obvious choice would be Pestilens, but we already have the Pestilens lord. Ikit and Thanquol have both been in Lustria - to my knowledge, the Moulder special characters have not (at least not prior to the End Times - I've read the books, but a while ago and I don't remember every detail of every character's activity). Skryre also starts in Lustria for the Vortex campaign.
    They used Forge to fill, but I don't think at any point if CA saw something and liked it from there they would hesitate for a second to add it. It's not a solid argument to say it's in there only to fill. Since CA seems to be motivated sometimes if it's a cool thing to put in. It would be perfectly plausible for a thing like putting in giant rats > wolf rats > brood horrors to chain since they could work on upsizing models with different skins and the like or even more indepth. Not necessarily where I think they'll go but I'd like to not just rule out that as a source at any point.

    For everyone else I don't think the Lizardmen LL is so absolute. There isn't a solid clear winner, many fans of quite a few across and CA has thrown some pretty bad curve balls to multiple races. Ask the Vampire Counts, Skaven, and others if each lore choice has made great sense for popularity or even theme. Tretch is quite argueably low hanging fruit and I can't fathom how any design team thought he was more interesting than a three armed mutant rat that makes monsters, a power army laden death machine, master assassins, or even a book popular grey seer. It's just not.

    And with Skaven I'd perfectly prefer Ikkit but once more no guarantee CA will go there. As I could take a dart board after a few picks and have about as much guess as they've gone with in the past. Once more, we have the most popular faction in game with only three lords and none of them are Elector Counts.

    And they seem to think that there is anger to some having less. Well, there should be a minimum bar perhaps, but not a maximum, and it bloody well shouldn't be races that have such expansive pools like the Empire, Skaven, or at the cost of fan favorites getting weeded out.
  • JhoDeviloJhoDevilo Posts: 39Registered Users
    Yeah, I'm with the opinion that Tehenhauin and Claw won't be the LL's. At least one of them.
    Even if they are not in the DLC, i hope CA will put 2 real LL's, someone important, not **** like Tretch or Ghorst.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Posts: 3,526Registered Users
    The only option I could appreciate if it’s not Ikit Claw would be if they created a Moulder faction under Throt with units from Forge World and the army list they got in White Dwarf.

    That’s actually my dream DLC.
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Posts: 468Registered Users
    Skaven are one of the few factions I wouldn't mind having 6 LLs would make sense being the most numerous species in the world with separate clans, clan moulder and skryre being two off the most famous, could see snikch as a special recruitable hero for factions and thanquol with a faction of his own maybe order of the grey seers or chosen of the horned rat.

    I don't really mind who we get as long as it's not another unknown with all this great characters to pick from
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 4,375Registered Users
    Nyxilis said:

    Draxynnic said:

    makar55 said:

    Little reminder of leaked voiceovers.

    vo_sel_skv_Beastlings_of_Seep_Gore
    vo_sel_skv_Blightscabs_Plaguepack
    vo_sel_skv_Clan_Vulkn_Tailslashers
    vo_sel_skv_Council_Guard
    vo_sel_skv_Deathvermin_of_Clan_Rictus
    vo_sel_skv_Flint_Ratz
    vo_sel_skv_Giant_Rat_Pack
    vo_sel_skv_Great_Claw_of_Feesik
    vo_sel_skv_Hallscurrys_Chosen
    vo_sel_skv_Ratling_Gun_Weapons_Team
    vo_sel_skv_Scabrous_Elders_of_the_Pox
    vo_sel_skv_The_Gaseous_Ones
    vo_sel_skv_The_Needless_Less
    vo_sel_skv_The_Skurry_Stabbers
    vo_sel_skv_The_Wolfrats
    vo_sel_skv_Volkn_Fire_tails
    vo_sel_skv_Warplock_Jezzails

    There was a pretty rapid clarification that they take more voiceovers than they make final units, so we won't necessarily see that many.
    Ludbone said:

    Draxynnic said:

    Ludbone said:

    SiWI said:

    I don't know about tehenhauin, but for Ikit the units missing would speak for him, strongly.

    But we have tons of missing Moulder Clan units tho.
    Only if you're counting units from the Clan Moulder variant list - the only Moulder units missing from the army book are Giant Rats and Rat Swarms, and CA isn't using swarms.
    But there are also Forge World, Older armybooks, End Times and other sources for the Moulder Clan units. Something that CA stated and confirmed to take into consideration in order to create rosters and/or units alone.

    Giant Rats, Chimerat, Brood Horror, Wolf Rats, Burrowing Behemot, Armored Rat Ogres, Great Pox Rat, Stormfiends (even if this one is a mix of Skryre and Moulder). . .

    That said I doubt that Ikit Claw will be the LL in a LP Rivalry against Lizardmen.
    Take into consideration, yes, but they're usually used where army book units are insufficient. Forge World was used to fill out Norsca and Vampirates, but I don't think we've seen it used for a race with an official 8E (or 8E-compatible, which the 7E skaven army book certainly counts as) army book exists. In those circumstances, they've generally either stuck to what's in the army book, or started there and filled in gaps with fluff mentions.

    In addition, most people seem to be anticipating the Ratling Guns and the Jezzails to be the most obvious additions, and they're clearly Skryre.

    With respect to rivalry: The obvious choice would be Pestilens, but we already have the Pestilens lord. Ikit and Thanquol have both been in Lustria - to my knowledge, the Moulder special characters have not (at least not prior to the End Times - I've read the books, but a while ago and I don't remember every detail of every character's activity). Skryre also starts in Lustria for the Vortex campaign.
    They used Forge to fill, but I don't think at any point if CA saw something and liked it from there they would hesitate for a second to add it. It's not a solid argument to say it's in there only to fill. Since CA seems to be motivated sometimes if it's a cool thing to put in. It would be perfectly plausible for a thing like putting in giant rats > wolf rats > brood horrors to chain since they could work on upsizing models with different skins and the like or even more indepth. Not necessarily where I think they'll go but I'd like to not just rule out that as a source at any point.
    Sure, but the precedent thus far does seem to be that army book units get priority over Forge World stuff - as has been noted previously, FW has pretty much only been used for minor races that needed it to fill out their list. There's nothing stopping CA from overturning that precedent, but thus far the evidence seems to be that they don't go to Forge World when there's material from the army books to use.

    That the jezzails and ratling guns are missing is also somewhat indicative. If they were already implemented and we were just looking at 7E inclusions like poison wind mortars and the Doom-Flayer, I'd probably be more inclined to expect a Moulder focus. (I do think it's quite likely that if the skaven had got an 8E book, some of the Forge World stuff would have been refined and included, similar to the High Elves getting phoenixes in 8E. Heck, I am inclined to think that the Hell Pit Abomination was essentially a refinement of the general idea of the Chimerat.)
2»
Sign In or Register to comment.