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Royal Hippogryph Knights

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  • ystyst Posts: 5,235Registered Users
    edited January 12
    Funny af lol all this 20% resist talk. Mustve never seen a forest drag before

    Eh who cares about all this, they r fine talks. Matter of when units like this gets buffed, this is merely predicting what sort of buffs they gonna get in future.

    Ppl said junkinarks fine at $2100 too lol
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  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 977Registered Users
    edited January 12

    Louis_1 said:

    They beat any cavalry unit in the game, what more do you want? They don't need anything fancy.

    They actually lsoe to star dragon very badly xD so i dunno maybe they are indded not that good for 2k points
    To me they seem to trade very well with star dragon, in my tests they take him down to about 1k HP, that's pretty spot on cost effectiveness wise.

    Again though star dragons can't really 1v1 grails or blood knights; RHK can easily. A small buff to charge bonus would be enough for them I think.

    Edit: note my tests are on festag update so maybe there are some differences.
  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    Louis_1 said:

    Louis_1 said:

    They beat any cavalry unit in the game, what more do you want? They don't need anything fancy.

    They actually lsoe to star dragon very badly xD so i dunno maybe they are indded not that good for 2k points
    To me they seem to trade very well with star dragon, in my tests they take him down to about 1k HP, that's pretty spot on cost effectiveness wise.

    Again though star dragons can't really 1v1 grails or blood knights; RHK can easily. A small buff to charge bonus would be enough for them I think.

    Edit: note my tests are on festag update so maybe there are some differences.
    that wa smy conclusion too :D
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 3,911Registered Users

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.
    in all honsty i don;t know if you are taken seriously anymore in bretonnian threads :D
    imagine being Empire or HE and now you have to prepare for 3 different builds: cheap 700g cav, GK who can contest a bit Demis or full air.

  • ystyst Posts: 5,235Registered Users
    edited January 12
    Louis_1 said:

    To me they seem to trade very well with star dragon, in my tests they take him down to about 1k HP, that's pretty spot on cost effectiveness wise.

    That is the whole frikking point of this thread. Hip used everything, resist and all combat.

    Star drag has 25% missile resist, unused. And frikking 3 charge of drag breath and bloody fire dmg.
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  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.
    in all honsty i don;t know if you are taken seriously anymore in bretonnian threads :D
    imagine being Empire or HE and now you have to prepare for 3 different builds: cheap 700g cav, GK who can contest a bit Demis or full air.

    And it is how it should be. Bret air needs to be good, and RHK are pretty close there.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 977Registered Users
    yst said:

    Louis_1 said:

    To me they seem to trade very well with star dragon, in my tests they take him down to about 1k HP, that's pretty spot on cost effectiveness wise.

    That is the whole frikking point of this thread. Hip used everything, resist and all combat.

    Star drag has 25% missile resist, unused. And frikking 3 charge of drag breath and bloody fire dmg.
    What's your point exactly? Hippoknights don't use their splash attacks vs star drag but star dragon does. They just have different utility.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 3,911Registered Users

    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.
    in all honsty i don;t know if you are taken seriously anymore in bretonnian threads :D
    imagine being Empire or HE and now you have to prepare for 3 different builds: cheap 700g cav, GK who can contest a bit Demis or full air.

    And it is how it should be. Bret air needs to be good, and RHK are pretty close there.
    so it should be auto win? Cannons don't do enough damage vs mass cavalry, Bret and Emp infantry are pretty much tied in terms of effectiveness and you want the cavalry game to be stronger? In other words a free win?
  • Cukie251Cukie251 Posts: 691Registered Users
    To b
    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.
    in all honsty i don;t know if you are taken seriously anymore in bretonnian threads :D
    imagine being Empire or HE and now you have to prepare for 3 different builds: cheap 700g cav, GK who can contest a bit Demis or full air.

    And it is how it should be. Bret air needs to be good, and RHK are pretty close there.
    so it should be auto win? Cannons don't do enough damage vs mass cavalry, Bret and Emp infantry are pretty much tied in terms of effectiveness and you want the cavalry game to be stronger? In other words a free win?
    To be fair, RHK are extremely expensive and not really cost effective vs non single entities. They get dragged down extremely quickly by ap ranged fire, infantry, and even cav. Frankly the 3 alternative builds you mentioned are all fundamentally weak to the same tactics.
  • Cukie251Cukie251 Posts: 691Registered Users
    Louis_1 said:

    yst said:

    Louis_1 said:

    To me they seem to trade very well with star dragon, in my tests they take him down to about 1k HP, that's pretty spot on cost effectiveness wise.

    That is the whole frikking point of this thread. Hip used everything, resist and all combat.

    Star drag has 25% missile resist, unused. And frikking 3 charge of drag breath and bloody fire dmg.
    What's your point exactly? Hippoknights don't use their splash attacks vs star drag but star dragon does. They just have different utility.
    Well I think his point is that RHK are kindof a specialized monster killer right now. They have less utility than dragons vs other portions of the army (they get caught easier, they don't have missile resist, they don't have breaths, most ground units have no problem dragging them down), and they lose to one on one to a unit that they theoretically should perform extremely well into.

    I'm not sure RHK are actually a good unit. ATM I think they are used (pretty damn sparingly might I add), because they are a bandaid solution to a huge problem Bret has (Large armored ap) despite not even being exceptional at that role.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,133Registered Users
    Louis_1 said:

    They beat any cavalry unit in the game, what more do you want? They don't need anything fancy.

    ? Thats just false... They looke vs demis, blood knights all the high tier anti-large units


  • ystyst Posts: 5,235Registered Users
    edited January 12
    Louis_1 said:

    What's your point exactly? Hippoknights don't use their splash attacks vs star drag but star dragon does. They just have different utility.

    What u mean dont use splash. Star drag splash doesnt exactly let them do 2000 dmg total on 4 models. Hip splash dont exactly give 100 dmg on each model

    How the heck exactly can a unit “not use splash”
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  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,133Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.

    They aren't even remotely comparable to GK, AP, guaranteed rear charge, Terror... easily worth 500g.
    Oh man I see an enormous biais here haha, unlike Dragons they loose models, wich means they are a worst target for regrowth and their damage output lower in the game. Kroxigors have 12 models with 94 qp damage, so around 1150 with their 12 models, does their damage seem too strong ? Nahh they are not a single entiry stop comparing them like that. They get surrounded easily, their damage and combat stats are on the low side for sure.


  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    Kranox said:

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.

    They aren't even remotely comparable to GK, AP, guaranteed rear charge, Terror... easily worth 500g.
    Oh man I see an enormous biais here haha, unlike Dragons they loose models, wich means they are a worst target for regrowth and their damage output lower in the game. Kroxigors have 12 models with 94 qp damage, so around 1150 with their 12 models, does their damage seem too strong ? Nahh they are not a single entiry stop comparing them like that. They get surrounded easily, their damage and combat stats are on the low side for sure.
    They do win vs all ground cav simply becasue they get their CB while the ground cav don't but they are a bit squishy for that price. I think more CB would be ok.
  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 1,100Registered Users
    I don't think they need buffs. I use them a lot in all sorts of MU's(Empire, Chaos, Tomb Kings etc) and they're really good, even without support from someone like louen. 20% Physical resist is great and can't be underestimated, their melee stats are respectable, they don't tend to bleed models in my experience and 600+damage is a lot. They aren't an air superiority unit, but if I need a flexible AP flyer to fight ground targets, I'd much rather have them than any dragon or terrorgheist.
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  • another505another505 Posts: 675Registered Users
    edited January 12
    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.
    in all honsty i don;t know if you are taken seriously anymore in bretonnian threads :D
    imagine being Empire or HE and now you have to prepare for 3 different builds: cheap 700g cav, GK who can contest a bit Demis or full air.

    LOOOL bret has one of the least playstyle options and you say that they need to think more of what to prepare against it??!!

    Have you imagine what emp can bring? Waay more options



    About rhk

    I think they still not worth 2k but they are a good unit
    I wish they get a buff in either they get better cb for such a beast charging down should be way scarier
    Ld increase
    1950 gold
    Or 3 models instead six
    I mean chariots has 3 why shouldnt rhk??!
    Post edited by another505 on
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,133Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.
    in all honsty i don;t know if you are taken seriously anymore in bretonnian threads :D
    imagine being Empire or HE and now you have to prepare for 3 different builds: cheap 700g cav, GK who can contest a bit Demis or full air.

    Hahahahaha sorry, thats kind of dumb 😂 sorry but bret is one of the faction with the least diversity.


  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 6,465Registered Users
    Stop suggesting giving stuff perfect vigour, its an OP undercosted ability.

    I think this unit is fine as is its peg knights who need help.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 3,911Registered Users
    edited January 13
    Kranox said:

    Green0 said:

    Green0 said:

    yst said:

    ^ they were never good for a $2k, ever.

    They would be pretty nice at 1.8k but i doubt ppl want that instead of a stronger unit.

    Ure paying $500 xtra in addition of a grail knight, and u get... this fat bird knight thing on air thats just lacklustre.

    yea 1800g and then what? Would you like an active ability that gives you a free win too? They currently have over 600 WS all together, which is more than any Dragon, splash damage, 20% physical resistance, possibility to cast Regrowth on them, Terror, 90 speed and 90 armor along with very decent stats. They could see a +2 MD although this would require tuning down Bret cavalry a bit to not make it overpowered, but honestly they are perfectly fine, they shouldn't be autopick like some people here would love them to be.
    in all honsty i don;t know if you are taken seriously anymore in bretonnian threads :D
    imagine being Empire or HE and now you have to prepare for 3 different builds: cheap 700g cav, GK who can contest a bit Demis or full air.

    Hahahahaha sorry, thats kind of dumb 😂 sorry but bret is one of the faction with the least diversity.
    yet even with the least diversity they pull off wins, which is telling don’t you think?

    Also it’s not like other factions have huge diversity, as for Brets, you can go cheap wide infantry or Foot Squires which are still decent, all cavalry have good different roles and it’s hard to guess which your opponent will bring except for matchups where there are obvious choices (eg 3x GK vs HE), stop pretending Brets are some tier 3 faction, they’re really not.

    2nd best archer in the game, Louen can survive alpha strikes with stuff like net + WW (not that you’d bring him on Griphon anyway vs WE). Access to lore of life, - MA and degen aura on Fey. There are some Bret subpar units but I’m thinking pegasus knights, I’d put BP on the list too but they have massive LD. Definitely not RHK
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 977Registered Users
    yst said:

    Louis_1 said:

    What's your point exactly? Hippoknights don't use their splash attacks vs star drag but star dragon does. They just have different utility.

    What u mean dont use splash. Star drag splash doesnt exactly let them do 2000 dmg total on 4 models. Hip splash dont exactly give 100 dmg on each model

    How the heck exactly can a unit “not use splash”
    Because when fighting a dragon, there is only one target, so there is nothing for their splash attacks to hit.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 977Registered Users
    edited January 13
    Kranox said:

    Louis_1 said:

    They beat any cavalry unit in the game, what more do you want? They don't need anything fancy.

    ? Thats just false... They looke vs demis, blood knights all the high tier anti-large units
    No they beat blood knights and grails easily. haven't tried vs demis but they are monstrous cav so I wouldn't expect rhk to do as well vs them.

    Edit: tested them vs royal altdorf gryphites and fireborn, RHK win.
    Post edited by Loupi_ on
  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 1,100Registered Users
    Brets have major issues with
    Bordeleaux
    Blessed Trebs
    Pegasus Knights
    Men at Arms with Polearms(these guys still suck)

    They have smaller issues with
    RPK's
    BP's
    Green Knight
    Lord
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  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 977Registered Users
    Cukie251 said:

    Louis_1 said:

    yst said:

    Louis_1 said:

    To me they seem to trade very well with star dragon, in my tests they take him down to about 1k HP, that's pretty spot on cost effectiveness wise.

    That is the whole frikking point of this thread. Hip used everything, resist and all combat.

    Star drag has 25% missile resist, unused. And frikking 3 charge of drag breath and bloody fire dmg.
    What's your point exactly? Hippoknights don't use their splash attacks vs star drag but star dragon does. They just have different utility.
    Well I think his point is that RHK are kindof a specialized monster killer right now. They have less utility than dragons vs other portions of the army (they get caught easier, they don't have missile resist, they don't have breaths, most ground units have no problem dragging them down), and they lose to one on one to a unit that they theoretically should perform extremely well into.

    I'm not sure RHK are actually a good unit. ATM I think they are used (pretty damn sparingly might I add), because they are a bandaid solution to a huge problem Bret has (Large armored ap) despite not even being exceptional at that role.
    There aren't a specialised unit though, they can choose any target they want be anywhere in the battlefield and are extremely good vs infantry and cav, good vs flying monsters and vs ground mobsters. How is that specialised?

    Seems that some people just want them to beat anything they fight with no counter play.
  • ystyst Posts: 5,235Registered Users
    edited January 13
    Louis_1 said:

    Because when fighting a dragon, there is only one target, so there is nothing for their splash attacks to hit.

    What the heck that suppose to mean.

    U do understand drag dont do 500+ to each and every hippo with their “splash” right?

    Hips just a clumsy beast that easily get those 6 hips surrounded and take 500% dmg faster than a single dragon getting surrounded lol. Of coz u can always cut your lost losing 2-3 of them disengaging, courtesy of excellent CA pathing installed for them
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  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 977Registered Users
    edited January 13
    yst said:

    Louis_1 said:

    Because when fighting a dragon, there is only one target, so there is nothing for their splash attacks to hit.

    What the heck that suppose to mean.

    U do understand drag dont do 500+ to each and every hippo with their “splash” right?

    Hips just a clumsy beast that easily get those 6 hips surrounded and take 500% dmg faster than a single dragon getting surrounded lol. Of coz u can always cut your lost losing 2-3 of them disengaging, courtesy of excellent CA pathing installed for them
    I know, i'm just pointing out how your original argument doesn't make sense either...

    Out of curiosity, what exactly do you want hippogryphs to be able to do? Do you want them to beat star dragons? I've tested them quite a bit, and they beat any ground cav, and anti large infantry with cycle charging, they even beta necrosphinx if you force them to surround it. Should they beat star dragon 1v1 cos they ""don't have missile resist or 3 dragon breaths"?
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 3,911Registered Users
    edited January 13
    yes he actually thinks Star Dragon has 3 free AoE FoB. Must never play HE though, with all the last minute dodgind and those scattered formations late-game that make breaths nearly worthless, along with the fact that to breathe you need to stand still so you’re super vulnerable to handgunners, cannons, even massed archers, stuff like that.

    Realistically vs a good player, a breath does 15-25% HP damage and you should be happy with that.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 3,911Registered Users
    edited January 13
    I just tested them, Star Dragon indeed narrowly wins (mostly because RHK don't manage to surround properly in the air due to animations) but RHK start dropping models really late due to the splash damage on the Dragon... so with a Regrowth cast on both sides it could be that RHK grind it out. It seemed to me a really fair fight for 2000 vs 2400g. I also didn't manage to dodge the breath completely vs the AI and got like 500 HP damage at the start.

    Honestly considering the fact that they cost 400g less, come in a different faction, have 20% phys. resist. possibility of healing, 10 more armor than a Star Dragon, Terror which allows you not to pick Louen, 90 speed and do generally better than a Dragon vs cavalry, I think they're really fairly priced right now.

    If anyone wants to test this with me to get better surround/no starting breath we can do it.
  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 1,100Registered Users
    No real argument with the analysis, but one thing i noticed with hippos dueling big single models is that the single model seems to get staggered out of the surround and then youre stuck with only 2 hippo models attacking, it's really awkward and tends to screw them in the air fights(this seemed to be the case when i tried to fight the TG with them).
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  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 977Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    I just tested them, Star Dragon indeed narrowly wins (mostly because RHK don't manage to surround properly in the air due to animations) but RHK start dropping models really late due to the splash damage on the Dragon... so with a Regrowth cast on both sides it could be that RHK grind it out. It seemed to me a really fair fight for 2000 vs 2400g. I also didn't manage to dodge the breath completely vs the AI and got like 500 HP damage at the start.

    Honestly considering the fact that they cost 400g less, come in a different faction, have 20% phys. resist. possibility of healing, 10 more armor than a Star Dragon, Terror which allows you not to pick Louen, 90 speed and do generally better than a Dragon vs cavalry, I think they're really fairly priced right now.

    If anyone wants to test this with me to get better surround/no starting breath we can do it.

    i'll test with you if you like
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 3,911Registered Users
    ouff I just turned off. I’ll PM you later we can set a time.
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