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Problem with Araby

ThomassiniThomassini Posts: 171Registered Users
Hi everyone.

There has been a real abundance of Araby threads recently, but in my opinion none of them tackles lack of visible BATTLE playstyle for them.

You see, each faction in TWWH has very distinct playstyle to them. Yes, implementation of some of them has been outright botched (Greenskins, I’m looking at you), but every-one-of-them has a distinct way they feel and play. So, without going into details, Empire is jack-of-all-trades, Brets are all-in-shock-cavalry, Dwarfs are turtles, Chaos is heavy-inf-monster-sledgehammer, VCounts Are war-of-attrition-zombie-sea, VCoast is gunpowder-monster-mishmash, WE are all about hide-and-seek missile annoyance, HE are Empire-minus-gunpowder-plus-monsters, Norsca is speed-and-monsters, LM are monster-mashers (at least now that’s their only option) and so on.

In addition, all the upcoming factions have very clear focus. Ogres are ultimate-monster-bruisers, chaos-dwarfs are ultimate-artillery, Kislev is Hussite style (war wagons!) and light cav, Hobgoblins are ultimate-horse-horde. Araby? Ummm...

What is there for Araby to make it NOT ONLY different, but also have its own visible style? Let’s flex our creative muscles. I’ve been trying but cannot come up with anything beyond ultimate light skirmishers faction, but, let’s face it, it’s boring. No one wants to play light skirmishers faction!

And no, Norsca is not “light skirmishers”. Marauder Champions and their monsters are anything but that.

TL;DR
Araby lacks a clear focus in their army. As it stand now, I don’t see what makes them “Arabyan”.
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Comments

  • NeoYasNeoYas Posts: 601Registered Users
    Jinns my friend, jinns.

    Fast ethereal monsters, from monstruous infantry jinns to giant jinns, plus fast cavalry and light infantry, If you add to this the option of teleportation to some jinns you have the ultimate movility faction.


  • NeoYasNeoYas Posts: 601Registered Users
    Ah and I forgot flying carpets which can be faster than all flying units.


  • ThomassiniThomassini Posts: 171Registered Users
    edited January 20
    We already have high mobility monster faction which is of course Norsca. I don’t really see Jinns as overriding theme for the whole army, although the idea of an ethereal monster is very interesting in itself. Still - it is a feature, not a playstyle.

    Carpets are gimmicks at worst, niche flying skirmishers at best. See gyrocopters and their marginal utility.
  • tomdoof206tomdoof206 Junior Member Posts: 136Registered Users
    Light cav and light infantry they are like the super light faction with some light elephants thrown in. The elephants will not be all that strong compared to mammoth stegadon ect. might even be the "weakest" elephant based unit in the game. To me seems they have a pretty well rounded army that is more focused on light/fast troops with some heavy hitters in terms of elephants all supported by decent archers. Some research into the warmaster army might be good if you really want to know how they play.
  • NeoYasNeoYas Posts: 601Registered Users
    edited January 20
    Ok, what about a balanced faction, with almost everything like the Empire but with weaker gunpowder and less options, with less armour I mean a wide variety of light infantry, maybe having an elite LI unit, fast skirmishers (carpets, cavalry) and unlike the Empire more monsters, different type of jinns and elephants (also armoured elephants). This means a faction that would rely on tactics, like a traditional eastern medieval army but with jinns which would be their cornerstone. I think this would be enough to make it different with a unique playstyle, ethereal mosters are already something unique. Their magic is also unique with a spell like mirage, which would make you play differently.


  • TD2013TD2013 Posts: 36Registered Users
    Campaign wise, hopefully a focus on their Monotheistic Faith. And many other Arabic themes and Mythology what could make them an unique faction, and not Empire V2. Battle wise they could likely be a combo of Humans and Jin'o'noon with some exotic units like elephants (Archers on elephants?) and Flying carpets.

    Hopefully CA can create some nice thematic Heroes and Lords for them as well, as there aren't many written down by Games workshop. Scribes and Prophets maybe as casters?

    Lets hope the music for them draws some inspiration from arabic source, love those Shia chants while beating their chests! =)
  • Bonutz619Bonutz619 Posts: 725Registered Users
    edited January 20
    I’d say Araby would be a faction similar to Bretonnia with a mix of Vampire Coast. Fast but heavy cavalry. High emphasis on magic. Weak infantry. But with a few changes:

    Gunpowder units and a few heavy monster units. Essentially vampire coast but with far more mobility. Could be a dangerous faction actually.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 3,957Registered Users
    edited January 20
    I would expect highly mobile army with ethereal monsters in Djinns to offer some staying power. With some heavier options in infantry and cav with elephants but mostly for magic wielding races that would counter the Djinns. I would also prefer that they have some other options that offer magic resistance as in my mind since Araby has low amount of magic winds they'd sooner focus on anti-magic options when fighting magic heavy races, with only Djinns and few mages offering magic options.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 759Registered Users
    edited January 20
    I think they should be fast with stalk / master ambusher in battle but for melee and close range units. Allot of hit and runs with light infantry, cavalry, ethereal monsters. Unique spells. Caster units. Anti magic / magic resistance.

    Teleport or invisible mechanics in battle or campaign. Extra movement range in deserts.
    I would like to see caravans roadsystem between settlements and allies.
    Post edited by Marker on
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Posts: 1,899Registered Users
    This topic has been addressed countless times... and unfortunately, the threads always get closed because of little "I dun wanna!" children that would rather another clone of the Empire, than a completely new culture. But to summerize:

    Djinns of various elements (wind, fire, water, etc)

    Superior ranged units

    Flying Carpets

    A much prettier army, that don't look like a bunch of court jesters.

    New cultural buildings, mechanics, people, weapons, armor, etc.

    A very different style of game play, since most "human" factions are settled next to each other, safe from all the boogey monsters. Like Kislev, this Araby is on the door step of monsters... not safely tucked away by other human factions.

    The ability to choose between Order or Chaos or Neutral

    A faction that is actually good at dealing with pirates (considering Araby has the best pirates/corsairs in the human world).

    Exotic trade from all over the world can allow Araby (if CA implement) to import weapons or designs from as far away as Cathay, Ind and Nippon,
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,908Registered Users
    I think they will work well for original playstyle.

    as mentioned, the Jinns allow Araby to not be affected by the winds of magic and they can be very different either as combatants or give special abilities.

    Not forgetting CA are more than capable of adding extra touches.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 2,914Registered Users
    Just based on their Warmaster list, we can infer that they'd have one of the widest ranges of cavalry in terms of roles filled. They should have good representation in fast/skirmisher cavalry, melee/shock cavalry, camelry which can function as both anti-large cavalry and heavy skirmishers, and "Tuskers" (elephants) as the fear-causing monstrous cavalry. No, I don't think elephants should be single entities; they were taken as units in Warmaster at least, so I'd imagine they'd be a unit with something like chariot unit sizes (somewhere between four, eight, or twelve).

    Their infantry would be similar to High Elves in that they'd have fewer options in the lower tiers, probably just spearmen and archers, and a variety of specialized options in the mid-high tiers, so palace guards as armored halberdiers, and some dual wielding and/or double handed weapon troops.

    Whatever fantasy elements they get should support a highly mobile play-style, so some fast hitters, flying skirmishers, and some decent lores of magic.
    Peace out everyone, I'm done. TWW is now unrecognizable from the original IP and given the content offerings of the past year or so, I don't predict that CA's vision for the future will be all that appealing to me. Every wish or prediction I've made for the past year has been dashed and subverted so I'm pretty much abandoning any notion that the things that I'm hoping for will ever come. It also doesn't help that CA seems to only be granting the wishes of the most insufferably obnoxious players on this forum. So with that said...

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 6,609Registered Users

    Hi everyone.

    There has been a real abundance of Araby threads recently, but in my opinion none of them tackles lack of visible BATTLE playstyle for them.

    You see, each faction in TWWH has very distinct playstyle to them. Yes, implementation of some of them has been outright botched (Greenskins, I’m looking at you), but every-one-of-them has a distinct way they feel and play. So, without going into details, Empire is jack-of-all-trades, Brets are all-in-shock-cavalry, Dwarfs are turtles, Chaos is heavy-inf-monster-sledgehammer, VCounts Are war-of-attrition-zombie-sea, VCoast is gunpowder-monster-mishmash, WE are all about hide-and-seek missile annoyance, HE are Empire-minus-gunpowder-plus-monsters, Norsca is speed-and-monsters, LM are monster-mashers (at least now that’s their only option) and so on.

    In addition, all the upcoming factions have very clear focus. Ogres are ultimate-monster-bruisers, chaos-dwarfs are ultimate-artillery, Kislev is Hussite style (war wagons!) and light cav, Hobgoblins are ultimate-horse-horde. Araby? Ummm...

    What is there for Araby to make it NOT ONLY different, but also have its own visible style? Let’s flex our creative muscles. I’ve been trying but cannot come up with anything beyond ultimate light skirmishers faction, but, let’s face it, it’s boring. No one wants to play light skirmishers faction!

    And no, Norsca is not “light skirmishers”. Marauder Champions and their monsters are anything but that.

    TL;DR
    Araby lacks a clear focus in their army. As it stand now, I don’t see what makes them “Arabyan”.

    I disagree with your whole post.
  • CrajohCrajoh Member Posts: 1,379Registered Users
    A light mobile army with battlefield teleport and supported by djinn would be unique and I believe enjoyed.

    I wonder how the ai would deal with teleport? Also I guess there would have to be a way to stop the player using teleport to wind down the battle timer.
    Live your life and try to do no harm.

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  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,414Registered Users
    Araby is unique.
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • PocmanPocman Posts: 2,382Registered Users
    Norsca is not a high mobility faction. It's basically chaos 2.0.


    The fast mobility factions are WEs and BMs.




    Regarding Araby, my guess it that it should be a jack of all trades, with the main difference with HE and the Empire being them using mostly land monsters to counter other mosters instead of ranged ap missiles.


    Good cavalry (cataphract style heavy cavalry and light cavalry), mobile infantry and skirmishers (dervishes and desert warriors), decent line infantry (although not elites), archers and some artillery. Plus elephants to crush the enemy lines, djinns to kill monsters, carpet flyers for flying support and a RoC as a the big single entity flying monster.
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Posts: 2,109Registered Users
    So from what I understand is that your argument is that Araby shouldn't be in because you don't think they would fit a theme that YOU like?

    As several other people pointed out, they would have a highly mobile faction with a wide range of fast units. But you claim that nobody wants a skirmisher faction and so they shouldn't be in? I know a ton of people who don't want monster themed factions but they don't say "Wow Ogres should never be added!". People have different tastes than you and the game isn't catered to only what you want.

    The fact that you say the Hobgoblins fit a unique niche but dismiss Araby as not having anything... This seems more like an excuse to justify why you don't want Araby rather than whatever your actual reason for disliking them is.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 15,368Registered Users
    Depends what direction CA takes with them. As is they're fairly bland but with a little bit of maturing would work well.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 2,305Registered Users
    edited January 20
    I pitched something a bit like this a while back, here it is again:

    ARABY:

    Army Subgroups: Urban Soldiers, Nomads, Desert Spirits and Creatures

    Unique Battlefield Mechanic: Desert Warriors

    Explanation: Araby’s human population is split between nomadic horsemen and more traditional troops from the urban areas. Arabyan infantry should be decent, not great, and low armor. However, its elite infantry would be more respectable, with small numbers but access to firearms and djinn-bound weapons. Both would have faster move speed, due to lacking the encumbrance of heavy armor. Nomads would be almost exclusively tied to light skirmish cavalry, however. Desert Spirits and Creatures would consist of elephants, djinn, and any other monstrous units CA chooses to include. Araby has very good skirmish cavalry but its shock cavalry is lacking and these spirits/monsters would provide the real hammer to their anvil.

    Desert Warriors is a mechanic that would give certain units the bound ability to go into Stalk for a limited amount of time, with a cooldown. Arabyan troops are lightly armored and have learned through the years that the secret to winning a battle in the desert is to get as close to your enemy as possible while undetected. The Arabyans would have more high-end units with Stalk than almost any other faction as a result. Their nomadic skirmish cavalry would have it, any nomadic infantry (like Dervishes) would have it, and maybe even one or two of their Djinn would have it. The significant difference is that it wouldn’t be passive. The player would have to choose when would be the most advantageous time to activate the ability and get his units were they need to be to surprise the enemy. Despite having low armor this would allow Araby to stand up to archer and artillery heavy factions like Elves or Dwarfs by sending out skirmishers and flankers (including cavalry) in Stalk, harassing and surrounding the enemy and buying time for their (relatively fast) main force to draw closer.

    Fighting them would be like fighting a sandstorm, with Stalking units reducing your choice of targets for ranged attacks. their flankers would get close, attack at point-blank, and then melt away and repeat from another angle. Their main weakness would be armies with good scouting options that could keep tabs on where all their units are. Think of it a bit like a flipped Beastmen approach. The Beastmen have Stalk on a lot of their weaker (but speedier) infantry, and not on their cavalry or monsters. With Araby it would be the other way around, where their light cav and some of their monsters have Stalk, balanced by being an activated ability with a cooldown, and they use this to prevent you from focusing on their lightly armored units.
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 759Registered Users
    edited January 20
    NeoYas said:

    Ok, what about a balanced faction, with almost everything like the Empire but with weaker gunpowder and less options, with less armour I mean a wide variety of light infantry, maybe having an elite LI unit, fast skirmishers (carpets, cavalry) and unlike the Empire more monsters, different type of jinns and elephants (also armoured elephants). This means a faction that would rely on tactics, like a traditional eastern medieval army but with jinns which would be their cornerstone. I think this would be enough to make it different with a unique playstyle, ethereal mosters are already something unique. Their magic is also unique with a spell like mirage, which would make you play differently.

    I agree, but it could be even more, I see lots of good ideas.
    Post edited by Marker on
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Posts: 718Registered Users
    edited January 20
    Araby will find their place between all the other races
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,629Registered Users
    edited January 20
    I don't want Araby because it rhymes with Barnaby and that's a silly name.

    What a nonsensical thread. Do you know the manga Berserk? There's a faction called the Kushan who are a mix of Persian and Indian iconography and they work fine as a fantasy kingdom. Araby should be similar.

  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,970Registered Users
    They have the largest variety in cavalry from just the Warmaster Lists alone. Meaning they can pull out a wide variety of what they need form it, super swift skirmishers, light, medium, and heavy. Monstrous through elephants.

    But this thread seems primarily designed to do nothing more than try to derail and put a stopper to Araby. Something that hardly any others receive. Pointless nonsense.

    They're a different themed human option, it has ever ability to be made.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,305Registered Users
    edited January 20
    They have some of the besg Cavalry in the world, close to bretonnia, but not yet.

    They have extremely solid Infantry men, they are ferocious warrior.

    Basically they would be a human faction with Strong fast cav, Better infantry core than the Empire, good monsters, Elephant etc... but they would lack the technology of the Empire.



    Thats from what I understand they are
    Post edited by AIMA_Dracklor on


  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,908Registered Users
    Yes I imagine their tech would be rather poor especially for more modern techs. Maybe their tech could be based on their religion in the latter half of the tech tree.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,305Registered Users
    Btw it says that they are a warrior people and that their soldiers are extremely well equipped with the best armor and weapons they have. Sultans are proud of their soldiers, thus equipping them extremely well. Their top unit would be around greatswords, but I expect them to have steong mid tier Infantry


  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 2,914Registered Users
    Kranox said:

    They have some of the besg Cavalry in the world, close to bretonnia, but not yet.

    They have extremely solid Infantry men, they are ferocious warrior.

    Basically they would be a human faction with Steong fast cav, Better infantry core than the Empire, good monsters, Elephant Infantry etc... but they would lack the technology of the Empire.



    Thats from what I understand they are

    I'm always confused when folks say they'd have really good infantry. What is that based on? Sure, they might have a couple elite units on the level of Greatswords, but there's nothing that indicates to me that their regular infantry would be any better than the Empire's. Infantry haven't really been a strong suit for past TW desert-dwelling factions either.
    Peace out everyone, I'm done. TWW is now unrecognizable from the original IP and given the content offerings of the past year or so, I don't predict that CA's vision for the future will be all that appealing to me. Every wish or prediction I've made for the past year has been dashed and subverted so I'm pretty much abandoning any notion that the things that I'm hoping for will ever come. It also doesn't help that CA seems to only be granting the wishes of the most insufferably obnoxious players on this forum. So with that said...

  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,745Registered Users
    Considering how popular the Mongols were in Atilla, (I know not it's the same culture group, but it has some of the same battlefield/playstyle 'themes')...I would say there is a lot of potential interest in a VIABLE cavalry based skirmisher faction.

    The elephants and Jinn could also provide their own unique flavor for sure.

    Overall, CA has already done just fine creating thematic identities for different human factions in previous games. Including games that had 'Araby' style factions in them. I don't think it would be challenging at all to just basically replicate 'Parthia...but this time with magic' or something else like that. And that would be plenty different from any existing factions right now who don't really have heavy skirmish cav at all.

    TL;DR: Creating a unique battlefield identity for Araby is honestly not that hard, and CA has plenty of templates from previous games to draw some viable inspiration from.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,305Registered Users
    ben8vtedu said:

    Kranox said:

    They have some of the besg Cavalry in the world, close to bretonnia, but not yet.

    They have extremely solid Infantry men, they are ferocious warrior.

    Basically they would be a human faction with Steong fast cav, Better infantry core than the Empire, good monsters, Elephant Infantry etc... but they would lack the technology of the Empire.



    Thats from what I understand they are

    I'm always confused when folks say they'd have really good infantry. What is that based on? Sure, they might have a couple elite units on the level of Greatswords, but there's nothing that indicates to me that their regular infantry would be any better than the Empire's. Infantry haven't really been a strong suit for past TW desert-dwelling factions either.
    Well mainly they have multiple mid to high tier Infantry, so better overall infantry core. It wont be even remotely close to Chaos or Dwarfs, but probably the best fkr a human faction yet


  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 12,748Registered Users, Moderators
    Empire should definitely have better disciplined infantry than Araby. They're pretty much supposed to be the top tier in human infantry in the setting.
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