Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

I guess we have just given up on combat completely.

FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Posts: 2,326Registered Users
Don't start flaming, I'm trying to have an intelligent conversation. I'm not a fan of arch but this video tells me alot. Skip to 6 minutes. Idgaf about the AI issues I can deal with that. But ffs this is even worse than warhammer with units swatting thin air. My love for total war was the semi real looking battles where units actually hit each other. Here they aren't even making contact. What is happening? I can't even justify buying this one in any form or fashion.
I still love total war and CA in just disappointed with this trajectory.

Comments

  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 830Registered Users
    Guan Yu blinded that dude with a snow ball.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 1,134Registered Users
    You should probably read a little more into the most recent threads.

    This footage is from a two month-old build of the game, and those sorts of things are among the last bits of polishing made to the game anyway, which are often done in the last few weeks leading up to release. Even if they aren't ironed out before release, they are largely done within the first few weeks after the game releases via the first few patches. And they are minor issues at best - hardly game breaking stuff.

    And the reason units are "swatting thin air" in Warhammer is because there are so many variables to consider that it's utterly impractical to have matched combat animations for every unit.
    Humans vs Dwarves, Elfs, Undead, Chaos & Noscans, Lizardmen, Orcs & Goblins, Beastmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings (or any combination of those). You also have monstrous units like Trolls and Giants.

    And honestly, this is nothing new. In fact, damn near every video game deals with stuff like this nowadays.
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,003Registered Users
    edited January 27
    Oh not this one again. This is a cherry picked propaganda video people.

    I urge you to go and look all the other uncurated battle footage. It is not nearly as bad this guy is trying to making it look. It is pretty similar to previous games, but with some kinks expected in a build that is 3-4 months before launch. You are basically upset over fake news.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 9,674Registered Users
    edited January 27

    Oh not this one again. This is a cherry picked propaganda video people.

    I urge you to go and look all the other uncurated battle footage. It is not nearly as bad this guy is trying to making it look. It is pretty similar to previous games, but with some kinks expected in a build that is 3-4 months before launch. You are basically upset over fake news.

    "Some kinks".

    We saw Warhammer gameplay in mid September of 2015 and the game didn't come out until late May 2016. 8 months out from launch we got the "thundering falls battle". There was the odd issue but men weren't flying off their horses and exploding and the AI wasn't defending it's front lines with peasant archers.

    You're lying to yourself if you think this is a non issue with only a month until release.

    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,003Registered Users

    Oh not this one again. This is a cherry picked propaganda video people.

    I urge you to go and look all the other uncurated battle footage. It is not nearly as bad this guy is trying to making it look. It is pretty similar to previous games, but with some kinks expected in a build that is 3-4 months before launch. You are basically upset over fake news.

    "Some kinks".

    We saw Warhammer gameplay in mid September of 2015 and the game didn't come out until late May 2016. 8 months out from launch we got the "thundering falls battle". There was the odd issue but men weren't flying off their horses and exploding and the AI wasn't defending it's front lines with peasant archers.

    You're lying to yourself if you think this is a non issue with only a month until release.

    You also saw two Three Kingdoms battles (Xiapi and the ambush battle) long before launch. Did you notice any men flying off their horses in them?

    You are lying to yourself if you form opinions based on one adulterated propaganda video.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 9,674Registered Users

    Oh not this one again. This is a cherry picked propaganda video people.

    I urge you to go and look all the other uncurated battle footage. It is not nearly as bad this guy is trying to making it look. It is pretty similar to previous games, but with some kinks expected in a build that is 3-4 months before launch. You are basically upset over fake news.

    "Some kinks".

    We saw Warhammer gameplay in mid September of 2015 and the game didn't come out until late May 2016. 8 months out from launch we got the "thundering falls battle". There was the odd issue but men weren't flying off their horses and exploding and the AI wasn't defending it's front lines with peasant archers.

    You're lying to yourself if you think this is a non issue with only a month until release.

    You also saw two Three Kingdoms battles (Xiapi and the ambush battle) long before launch. Did you notice any men flying off their horses in them?

    You are lying to yourself if you form opinions based on one adulterated propaganda video.
    No, but I did notice awful combat animations and clunky troop movement with that tried and true Rome 2 jerk when units run.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • poljananpoljanan Posts: 29Registered Users
    edited January 27



    You also saw two Three Kingdoms battles (Xiapi and the ambush battle) long before launch. Did you notice any men flying off their horses in them?


    That is actually far more concerning since the xiapi and ambush battles were far older builds than the ones handed over to the ecelebs, but it managed to look and perform worse than the highly scripted battles shown at E3.
  • EfixEfix Posts: 250Registered Users
    edited January 27
    Shogun II, Rome II, Attila & TOB animations were awesome even tho I have 5000 hours in those games they still amaze me! Shields colliding on the charge, units getting impaled, stab and shield bash, kicked and slashed etc RIP cool battle animations I will see you back in MED III (hopefully).
  • AryndelinAryndelin Junior Member Posts: 1,029Registered Users
    edited January 27
    It's too early to say if combat is worse off or not yet.

    The builds we've seen are old, months old.
    And the issue's we've seen (exept maybe some of the animations) could easily be fixed by now.

    While i'm not impressed by battles so far (exept for the ambush of sun ren), i'm not going to judge before we see more battle footage. Specifically a video about battles other than the ambush one and the siege of Xiapi.


    edit: might add i'm not disappointed by the battles either.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 8,785Registered Users
    Efix said:

    Shogun II, Rome II, Attila & TOB animations were awesome even tho I have 5000 hours in those games they still amaze me! Shields colliding on the charge, units getting impaled, stab and shield bash, kicked and slashed etc RIP cool battle animations I will see you back in MED III (hopefully).

    The blood and gore DLC for Total War: Three Kingdoms was not released yet, and the fancy animations from Shogun II and Rome II had a lot of downsides gameplay-wise, they was ruining formations.
    4 Fully Independent Monogods Armies would be great for a Storyline about the Great Game in Total War: Warhammer 3.
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Posts: 1,161Registered Users
    I despise Arch Warhammer...

    But he is right about the AI in this Test Stage... when it releases, we shall have to see if the AI is still this terrible. The game it self still looks magnficent though... but as a problem affects all Total War games... the AI needs a fix.
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • juankkjuankk Posts: 164Registered Users
    For jme it could be have been greater with regard to battles, dont get me wrong i dont mean its a bad system, but for me its like attila i dont find huge changes with regard effects in battle, physichs, and cities, i repeat i like it but i hoped it could be far better, epic sieges and so on, compared with the fake carthage siege ca showed us years ago these sieges have lost that epic feeling and im talking about a siege that was made many years ago.
  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Posts: 2,326Registered Users
    Really appreciate everybody's input and the absence of attacks on each other. Good stuff.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 2,264Registered Users
    edited January 27
    Arch Warhammer.. meh.

    I note he didn't watch matches from the Youtubers he saw a clear progression by the enemy, first protecting the wall and then retreating to the centre. If you listen to the Youtubers they said it was an easy battle because it was 3 powerful lords against a minor peasant army. Doesn't have any bearing on the game as a whole.

    All this feedback would be given to the devs and they'll work on it.

    Arch's probably still salty he didn't get early access for acting like a tit.
  • The_RadudeThe_Radude Posts: 80Registered Users

    Arch Warhammer.. meh.

    I note he didn't watch matches from the Youtubers he saw a clear progression by the enemy, first protecting the wall and then retreating to the centre. If you listen to the Youtubers they said it was an easy battle because it was 3 powerful lords against a minor peasant army. Doesn't have any bearing on the game as a whole.

    All this feedback would be given to the devs and they'll work on it.

    Arch's probably still salty he didn't get early access for acting like a tit.

    Exactly.
    Arch has been reduced to a troll in the TW community. He claims all this stuff but I doubt he heard what toher Youtubers said such as how they had three OP lords fighting peasants. PEASANTS

    If you want a video analysis of the game from someone who actually played it and said person not having a clear and obvious bias than check out MilkandcookiesTW, a true TW player, not Arch.

  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Posts: 2,326Registered Users

    Arch Warhammer.. meh.

    I note he didn't watch matches from the Youtubers he saw a clear progression by the enemy, first protecting the wall and then retreating to the centre. If you listen to the Youtubers they said it was an easy battle because it was 3 powerful lords against a minor peasant army. Doesn't have any bearing on the game as a whole.

    All this feedback would be given to the devs and they'll work on it.

    Arch's probably still salty he didn't get early access for acting like a tit.

    Exactly.
    Arch has been reduced to a troll in the TW community. He claims all this stuff but I doubt he heard what toher Youtubers said such as how they had three OP lords fighting peasants. PEASANTS

    If you want a video analysis of the game from someone who actually played it and said person not having a clear and obvious bias than check out MilkandcookiesTW, a true TW player, not Arch.

    Lol I already said I don't listen to arch rambling ****. But what I'm talking about isn't a point of opinion. Its fact, its actual footage. The video from Indy or anyone else isn't any different than arches. I am worried about the way units look when they are fighting, not anything else. I don't go to him for any serious review of the game. But the issues seen there are constant throughout all reviewers. I'm just hoping they polish it up before release, I mean those hero duels look ridiculous. And why are we capped at 1800 men? It doesn't make sense to me.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 8,552Registered Users

    Arch Warhammer.. meh.

    I note he didn't watch matches from the Youtubers he saw a clear progression by the enemy, first protecting the wall and then retreating to the centre. If you listen to the Youtubers they said it was an easy battle because it was 3 powerful lords against a minor peasant army. Doesn't have any bearing on the game as a whole.

    All this feedback would be given to the devs and they'll work on it.

    Arch's probably still salty he didn't get early access for acting like a tit.

    Exactly.
    Arch has been reduced to a troll in the TW community. He claims all this stuff but I doubt he heard what toher Youtubers said such as how they had three OP lords fighting peasants. PEASANTS

    If you want a video analysis of the game from someone who actually played it and said person not having a clear and obvious bias than check out MilkandcookiesTW, a true TW player, not Arch.

    Lol I already said I don't listen to arch rambling ****. But what I'm talking about isn't a point of opinion. Its fact, its actual footage. The video from Indy or anyone else isn't any different than arches. I am worried about the way units look when they are fighting, not anything else. I don't go to him for any serious review of the game. But the issues seen there are constant throughout all reviewers. I'm just hoping they polish it up before release, I mean those hero duels look ridiculous. And why are we capped at 1800 men? It doesn't make sense to me.
    the videos from indy or anyone else isn't different from Arches because Arch used their footage in his video
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Yes! to Boris Todbringer as playable, subfaction leading Legendary Lord with Starting Position Middenheim instead for the Empire! NO to the lazy way of moving Gelt and Volkmar who both belong to Reikland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 2,264Registered Users

    Arch Warhammer.. meh.

    I note he didn't watch matches from the Youtubers he saw a clear progression by the enemy, first protecting the wall and then retreating to the centre. If you listen to the Youtubers they said it was an easy battle because it was 3 powerful lords against a minor peasant army. Doesn't have any bearing on the game as a whole.

    All this feedback would be given to the devs and they'll work on it.

    Arch's probably still salty he didn't get early access for acting like a tit.

    Exactly.
    Arch has been reduced to a troll in the TW community. He claims all this stuff but I doubt he heard what toher Youtubers said such as how they had three OP lords fighting peasants. PEASANTS

    If you want a video analysis of the game from someone who actually played it and said person not having a clear and obvious bias than check out MilkandcookiesTW, a true TW player, not Arch.

    Lol I already said I don't listen to arch rambling ****. But what I'm talking about isn't a point of opinion. Its fact, its actual footage. The video from Indy or anyone else isn't any different than arches. I am worried about the way units look when they are fighting, not anything else. I don't go to him for any serious review of the game. But the issues seen there are constant throughout all reviewers. I'm just hoping they polish it up before release, I mean those hero duels look ridiculous. And why are we capped at 1800 men? It doesn't make sense to me.
    I'd wait to see something more concrete. Not forgetting Arch WH and the ex CA employee will no doubt trawl the preview videos looking for mistakes to cry about.

    I can't think of a single game, especially one with some complexity that doesn't suffer glitches. I remember seeing a number of the finishing moves in Doom Eternal screwing up on their big reveal, it happens. The majority of the hero battles sync well, which tells me they may have sync issues during certain times, but as the slightly more level headed guys said, it's a 2 month old build.

    Are you sure it's capped or are they using low unit sizes like they usually do on early previews?

    The fact is Arch probably gathered as many mistakes/glitches as possible and added them to a single video, considering the amount of content that's become available we didn't see that much in this video.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 16,792Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Speculation like this, based on second hand info at best? Moved to Chat.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Posts: 2,413Registered Users
    edited January 28
    Nevermind.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • BalaminienGSBalaminienGS Posts: 10Registered Users
    edited January 28

    Don't start flaming, I'm trying to have an intelligent conversation. I'm not a fan of arch but this video tells me alot. Skip to 6 minutes. Idgaf about the AI issues I can deal with that. But ffs this is even worse than warhammer with units swatting thin air. My love for total war was the semi real looking battles where units actually hit each other. Here they aren't even making contact. What is happening? I can't even justify buying this one in any form or fashion.
    I still love total war and CA in just disappointed with this trajectory.

    I was thinking the same, until I realized that this game will be providing us with CA's greatest attempt at diplomacy - but what does it matter when the battles mean so little to me? You know what, I'm just going to head back to Thrones of Britannia, it has great combat, but boy do I wish it had the kind of diplomacy and map/faction interaction that'd make me care about the people in the battles that Three Kingdoms is showing off ... it's like ... they are working to refine one element at a time before tying them together. Like they discovered with Warhammer that they have the efficiency to make the baser form of their mechanical model without losing the fun and the cost effectiveness of these titles in development/reception

    Thrones of Britannia is an echo of Rome's attempt to connect the player further internally into their faction and but it's looking to pale in comparison to what's being detailed in Three Kingdoms, a contrast interestingly to the combat in Britannia, that is in much better form.


    I think to a memory when playing a modded version of Medieval 2 Total War. I had a battle that eventually saw my Polish King, who lost all of his bodyguards, taking on the Lithuanian King, who had lost all his bodyguards ... there, on some god forsaken patch of Eastern Europe I watched as these kings slash at one another, right between the Lithuanian Archers firing on mine and the line where our peasants where hacking each other to death. My line was crumbling, but I would not pull out til that damn King was dead! "A Lithuanian King for Polish army, or all Poles from serf to Crown lost in the attempt" ... The Lithuanian King fell. I immediately ordered the retreat only to see that the order was heard by Lithuanian and Polish alike, because the lines split like mothers were calling them for supper. I quickly righted that wrong and it was a dinner for Polish iron of Lithuanian flesh.

    That battle is what I see in this footage, albeit the gamey whole, in the characters and their duels and in the diplomacy I see everything that Medieval 2 not only lack, but could not even comprehend and furthermore, that the battles you yearn for still have a form in a recently released title.


    Call me insane, but the hope of a proper Medieval 3 is in Three Kingdoms, if perhaps not the whole.
  • Rochaid29Rochaid29 Senior Member Posts: 1,165Registered Users
    glad i decided to skip on this one.


    also. on a second note.. did someone at CA screw archwarhammer's sister or something? dudes on a crusade
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,272Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    Speculation like this, based on second hand info at best? Moved to Chat.

    [citation needed]
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 16,792Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Closed.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
This discussion has been closed.