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If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
You've got to remember that Q&C is a good DLC. It's got a 76% steam rating. For all the huffing there is about it, it's a well liked DLC. If this next DLC is better than it, that puts it right in the K&W territory.
Lets imagine RCS aren't possible, lets magically expunge them from existence. If CA wanted to do a cheap unit it still could. There's plenty of options for cheap units. So with that we can conclude the idea that the RCS could take a slot, or that excluding it means we'll automatically get something else is false. That whole idea is from the outset critically flawed.
Furthermore this idea that because something is cheap to make it's bad is also false. It doesn't matter how much it costs to make, what matters is its value to the game. RCS are a highly valuable unit, them being cheap can only be an argument for them, not against.
I am The Beast of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
Recolored Skink Cohort won't take the place of a real unit because it won't be a unit in the first place.
RCS is what it is. Common Skink Cohort with a red crest instead of an orange crest. I call this thing a RoR. Just look at all the units we've got in LP's. . .every single LP unit has, at very least, a different model parts. Look at Shadow Warriors, Archlector or Knights of the Blazing Sun. . .they are cheap and with the same skeleton and animations of other vanilla units, yes, but they have new model-parts like new armors, new helmets etc.
What's the only difference between common Skink Cohort and RCS? The color of their little crests. And how would you call something like that? RoR. Because it is a RoR. Then, and this is pretty important, RCS is not even a unit in the 8th edition armybook. Clearer than this. . . Furthermore having 5 units + RCS means that 2 real Lizardmen units between Razordon, Salamander, Ripperdactyls, Skink Oracle with Troglodon (and even the lame and bland Engine of the Gods and Ark of Sotek) won't be in the game (same with Skaven). Never ever. And players will look at this mess and they will all say "why you put a RoR instead of a real missing unit, CA? Lazy! Too many Charlemagnes strikes again!"
Agree maybe like Alith anar made RCS only belong to Tehenhauin, if he will be implemented. Troglodon, i not see point into this unit. We had Carnosaur.
Not only is it not loreful the entire point of having RCS would be skink themed armies. One unit simply isn't either good enough. It must either be a unit in its own right, or a buff.
CA shouldn't be afraid to add a valuable unit just because some folk will complain and make false accusations like saying it takes a "slot".
I am The Beast of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
Recolored Skink Cohort won't take the place of a real unit because it won't be a unit in the first place.
RCS is what it is. Common Skink Cohort with a red crest instead of an orange crest. I call this thing a RoR. Just look at all the units we've got in LP's. . .every single LP unit has, at very least, a different model parts. Look at Shadow Warriors, Archlector or Knights of the Blazing Sun. . .they are cheap and with the same skeleton and animations of other vanilla units, yes, but they have new model-parts like new armors, new helmets etc.
What's the only difference between common Skink Cohort and RCS? The color of their little crests. And how would you call something like that? RoR. Because it is a RoR. Then, and this is pretty important, RCS is not even a unit in the 8th edition armybook. Clearer than this. . . Furthermore having 5 units + RCS means that 2 real Lizardmen units between Razordon, Salamander, Ripperdactyls, Skink Oracle with Troglodon (and even the lame and bland Engine of the Gods and Ark of Sotek) won't be in the game (same with Skaven). Never ever. And players will look at this mess and they will all say "why you put a RoR instead of a real missing unit, CA? Lazy! Too many Charlemagnes strikes again!"
Agree maybe like Alith anar made RCS only belong to Tehenhauin, if he will be implemented. Troglodon, i not see point into this unit. We had Carnosaur.
My bet riperdactyl, razordon and salamander.
At best like Free Company of Sartosa, that means Campaign-only unit related with Tehenhauin.
- Should RCS be a unit? Nono.
- Is RCS a unit on the same level as Salamander, Skink Oracle with Troglodon, Razordon, Rippers? Absolutely nope. It's actually not even an 8th edition unit.
- Should RCS be in the DLC over one of two of those real 8th edition units? Absolutely nope.
If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
You've got to remember that Q&C is a good DLC. It's got a 76% steam rating. For all the huffing there is about it, it's a well liked DLC. If this next DLC is better than it, that puts it right in the K&W territory.
The 90% of the negative reviews are all about the lack of important units. Same goes to Reddit negative feedbacks about it, and even here on TW Forums. The bad part of Q&C is its poor amount of units.
If CA choose to make a units focused DLC this time is also due to the negative feedbacks of Q&C.
Then you have to take into consideration that if RCS comes in the DLC, while Razordon and Ripperdactyls, or whatever, will not. . . then yup, RCS replaced those units. This is what people will think. "Why putting a recolored RoR-like Skink Cohort over Razordon and Ripperdactyls? Lazy! Rant!"
And it's true, for the most part.
Put those recolored clones as Tehenhauin's campaign only unit. Do not risk the place of 1 or 2 or even 3 Lizardmen and Skaven real units because of it.
If RCS are done, they should be implemented in the way that takes advantage of the fact that they have been done. To me, this seems best as a unit in addition to other stuff.
If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
You've got to remember that Q&C is a good DLC. It's got a 76% steam rating. For all the huffing there is about it, it's a well liked DLC. If this next DLC is better than it, that puts it right in the K&W territory.
The 90% of the negative reviews are all about the lack of important units. Same goes to Reddit negative feedbacks about it, and even here on TW Forums. The bad part of Q&C is its poor amount of units.
If CA choose to make a units focused DLC this time is also due to the negative feedbacks of Q&C.
Then you have to take into consideration that if RCS comes in the DLC, while Razordon and Ripperdactyls, or whatever, will not. . . then yup, RCS replaced those units. This is what people will think. "Why putting a recolored RoR-like Skink Cohort over Razordon and Ripperdactyls? Lazy! Rant!"
And it's true, for the most part.
Put those recolored clones as Tehenhauin's campaign only unit. Do not risk the place of 1 or 2 or even 3 Lizardmen and Skaven real units because of it.
We don't know the percentages of the main focus of negative feedback.
Focusing on negative feedback is also a really bad idea. See, part of an honest self evaluation is knowing your weaknesses and your strengths. This is true across the board, from the professional world to personal, to sports. A key part of understanding how to get better is understanding in what ways you're good. Focusing on the negative is at best circular, and at worst a downward spiral because of human nature.
If people think that without RCS they'd get a fantastic unit instead then is that CA's problem? I don't think so. Ultimately some folk will be disappointed regardless, and that's okay. I just don't think CA should shy away from making a unit that would be highly valuable because it's afraid of criticism. I'd find this far more worthy of criticism than including a unit I don't like.
There is no risk of RCS replacing anything. That argument only holds weight if RCS are the only possible low effort unit and if without a low effort unit CA would for some reason spend all the time and resources on a good unit instead of nothing. It's a massively unlikely scenario.
I am The Beast of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
You've got to remember that Q&C is a good DLC. It's got a 76% steam rating. For all the huffing there is about it, it's a well liked DLC. If this next DLC is better than it, that puts it right in the K&W territory.
The 90% of the negative reviews are all about the lack of important units. Same goes to Reddit negative feedbacks about it, and even here on TW Forums. The bad part of Q&C is its poor amount of units.
If CA choose to make a units focused DLC this time is also due to the negative feedbacks of Q&C.
Then you have to take into consideration that if RCS comes in the DLC, while Razordon and Ripperdactyls, or whatever, will not. . . then yup, RCS replaced those units. This is what people will think. "Why putting a recolored RoR-like Skink Cohort over Razordon and Ripperdactyls? Lazy! Rant!"
And it's true, for the most part.
Put those recolored clones as Tehenhauin's campaign only unit. Do not risk the place of 1 or 2 or even 3 Lizardmen and Skaven real units because of it.
We don't know the percentages of the main focus of negative feedback.
Focusing on negative feedback is also a really bad idea. See, part of an honest self evaluation is knowing your weaknesses and your strengths. This is true across the board, from the professional world to personal, to sports. A key part of understanding how to get better is understanding in what ways you're good. Focusing on the negative is at best circular, and at worst a downward spiral because of human nature.
If people think that without RCS they'd get a fantastic unit instead then is that CA's problem? I don't think so. Ultimately some folk will be disappointed regardless, and that's okay. I just don't think CA should shy away from making a unit that would be highly valuable because it's afraid of criticism. I'd find this far more worthy of criticism than including a unit I don't like.
There is no risk of RCS replacing anything. That argument only holds weight if RCS are the only possible low effort unit and if without a low effort unit CA would for some reason spend all the time and resources on a good unit instead of nothing. It's a massively unlikely scenario.
1) Take a look on Steam reviews then. Mix everything with all the negative feedbacks and rants you can find on Reddit, here, Youtube comments, social networks and you'll get an idea.
2) Focusing on negative feedbacks is a bad idea!? CA should not take into consideration bad feedbacks? So CA should not even try to solve problems, update and fix the game from bug and so on. . . because focusing on negative feedbacks from the players is a bad idea? Basing on your words CA should have never replaced mini-campaign with more complete rosters. And they should never update the missing Old World races because rant and negative feedbacks says GS, for example, is actually a mess in everything. Bethesda should not take into consideration the negative feedbacks and rant about Fallout 76 then. All good. For Bethesda the game is good so why take those feedbacks into consideration. Blizzard with that **** of Diablo Immortal? The game is good and smartphone are tHe BeSttT so why taking into consideration the negative feedbacks and rant?. . . See?
3) Do you think having RCS + Ark of Sotek + Engine of Gods + 3 Skaven units is not something bad? Maybe I'm wrong but you are putting RCS over every single missing unit in order of importance. Seems like the DLC must not be released if RCS is not a unit before real units like Salamander and so on. Like a "no RCS no party". . . You know that RCS can be implemented as RoR, Blessed FLC unit or campaign only unit? You know that there are dozens of RCS mods on Steamworkshop? And you know that the only way to get Salamander, Razor, Trog with Oracle and Rippers is as new LP units? You can't add them with mods nor as blessed units nor RoR nor campaign only.
4) Your idea sounds pretty clear to me. LZ vs SK must be like Q&C. . . and with this method there will be several missing units, especially if Lizardmen will only get 2 units and 3 for Skaven (and at this point I don't know why we are not arguing for Albino and Red Stormfiends > Ratlings, Jezzails, Wolf Rats, Stormfiends, Brood Horrors and Doomflayers. . .) In this way RCS will take away the place of one or more real units. Slots? Yes. CA lazyness? Yes. Q&C like DLC? Yes. Cheapshow? Yes. The only way to get RCS and all those missing units is with a LP with 8-9 units, but you think this is unrealistic. . .
5) If you think Q&C contents are very good then are you agree with the statement of this Reddit guy here?
I really hope CA isn't reading this and taking the "demand" for an RCS unit seriously. It just might convince them that they can get away with fewer real units in favor of a literal reskin. They can then convince the bean counters that a larger budget for the LP isn't necessary since the community doesn't really care which units are added so long as there are more units than the previous LP. After all, 6 units total would technically still be more than Q&C even if one, two, or even all three new LM units are just different takes on existing units.
No, the LP needs to primarily focus on units that only they can produce such as Salamanders, Ripperdactyls, and Razordons. RCS can be accomplished via a host of other means; factionwide buff, RoR, new Blessed Spawnings, and even mods can take care of that demand, but those methods can't address the aforementioned new units. And even if they were going to penny pinch the budget for all it's worth, the Ark of Sotek and Engine of the Gods would be better additions since 1) they're legit army book units and 2) they'd at least add some modicum of variety to the roster.
If the LP adds those 3 high priorities, the Troglodon, and the 2 dino reskins they then have my permission (for whatever that's worth) to add RCS as an independent unit. But if any of those units is missing, then RCS will have jumped the line.
I really hope CA isn't reading this and taking the "demand" for an RCS unit seriously. It just might convince them that they can get away with fewer real units in favor of a literal reskin. They can then convince the bean counters that a larger budget for the LP isn't necessary since the community doesn't really care which units are added so long as there are more units than the previous LP. After all, 6 units total would technically still be more than Q&C even if one, two, or even all three new LM units are just different takes on existing units.
No, the LP needs to primarily focus on units that only they can produce such as Salamanders, Ripperdactyls, and Razordons. RCS can be accomplished via a host of other means; factionwide buff, RoR, new Blessed Spawnings, and even mods can take care of that demand, but those methods can't address the aforementioned new units. And even if they were going to penny pinch the budget for all it's worth, the Ark of Sotek and Engine of the Gods would be better additions since 1) they're legit army book units and 2) they'd at least add some modicum of variety to the roster.
If the LP adds those 3 high priorities, the Troglodon, and the 2 dino reskins they then have my permission (for whatever that's worth) to add RCS as an independent unit. But if any of those units is missing, then RCS will have jumped the line.
Saying RCS blocks off dinos is like saying we shouldn't be asking for Knights Panther because then we won't get Celestial Hurricanum because of that.
I thought asking for low hanging fruit is BECAUSE it's relatively inexpensive and wouldn't interfere with the budget. So I highly doubt RCS would have anything to do with them not being added.
Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
If the LP adds those 3 high priorities, the Troglodon, and the 2 dino reskins they then have my permission (for whatever that's worth) to add RCS as an independent unit. But if any of those units is missing, then RCS will have jumped the line.
I completely agree. And RCS is not even a reskin, it's just a recolour of their crests. Having RCS as an indipendent unit when there are RoR out there with better and more recolour than RCS would be absurd.
Guys, let's wait and see what CA will do with this Lords Pack.
Then if CA is so mad to put RCS and leaving out Razordon, Troglodon, Salamander or something else...don't try to negate the fact that i told you. However my downvote IF CA will follow this road is ready.
Saying RCS blocks off dinos is like saying we shouldn't be asking for Knights Panther because then we won't get Celestial Hurricanum because of that.
I thought asking for low hanging fruit is BECAUSE it's relatively inexpensive and wouldn't interfere with the budget. So I highly doubt RCS would have anything to do with them not being added.
I mean, it's not really the same situation since we've already gotten the LP for the Empire. Whatever else we get for them, if anything, is going to come as FLC. We don't really know what kind of resources will be brought forth for an Empire update since we don't know how big it's going to be and since we're not paying for it we'd probably be happy with whatever we get.
For an LP though, we do have a metric of anywhere between G&G, Q&C, or K&W. There is a limit on what we'll get since there is some expectation of ROI on CA's part and if we put it out there that an RCS unit is an acceptable element of the LP they very well might pick up on that and decide that the more involved units aren't worth the front end investment.
I completely agree. And RCS is not even a reskin, it's just a recolour of their crests. Having RCS as an indipendent unit when there are RoR out there with better and more recolour than RCS would be absurd.
Imagine getting it and not Salamander.
Technically that's what reskin means. It's the same model with different colors or textures. An RoR is a reskin while two different units of human spearmen are in fact different models with different 3D assets. I agree with the sentiment though, getting RCS instead of Salamanders would be a travesty.
If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
You've got to remember that Q&C is a good DLC. It's got a 76% steam rating. For all the huffing there is about it, it's a well liked DLC. If this next DLC is better than it, that puts it right in the K&W territory.
The 90% of the negative reviews are all about the lack of important units. Same goes to Reddit negative feedbacks about it, and even here on TW Forums. The bad part of Q&C is its poor amount of units.
If CA choose to make a units focused DLC this time is also due to the negative feedbacks of Q&C.
Then you have to take into consideration that if RCS comes in the DLC, while Razordon and Ripperdactyls, or whatever, will not. . . then yup, RCS replaced those units. This is what people will think. "Why putting a recolored RoR-like Skink Cohort over Razordon and Ripperdactyls? Lazy! Rant!"
And it's true, for the most part.
Put those recolored clones as Tehenhauin's campaign only unit. Do not risk the place of 1 or 2 or even 3 Lizardmen and Skaven real units because of it.
We don't know the percentages of the main focus of negative feedback.
Focusing on negative feedback is also a really bad idea. See, part of an honest self evaluation is knowing your weaknesses and your strengths. This is true across the board, from the professional world to personal, to sports. A key part of understanding how to get better is understanding in what ways you're good. Focusing on the negative is at best circular, and at worst a downward spiral because of human nature.
If people think that without RCS they'd get a fantastic unit instead then is that CA's problem? I don't think so. Ultimately some folk will be disappointed regardless, and that's okay. I just don't think CA should shy away from making a unit that would be highly valuable because it's afraid of criticism. I'd find this far more worthy of criticism than including a unit I don't like.
There is no risk of RCS replacing anything. That argument only holds weight if RCS are the only possible low effort unit and if without a low effort unit CA would for some reason spend all the time and resources on a good unit instead of nothing. It's a massively unlikely scenario.
1) Take a look on Steam reviews then. Mix everything with all the negative feedbacks and rants you can find on Reddit, here, Youtube comments, social networks and you'll get an idea.
2) Focusing on negative feedbacks is a bad idea!? CA should not take into consideration bad feedbacks? So CA should not even try to solve problems, update and fix the game from bug and so on. . . because focusing on negative feedbacks from the players is a bad idea? Basing on your words CA should have never replaced mini-campaign with more complete rosters. And they should never update the missing Old World races because rant and negative feedbacks says GS, for example, is actually a mess in everything. Bethesda should not take into consideration the negative feedbacks and rant about Fallout 76 then. All good. For Bethesda the game is good so why take those feedbacks into consideration. Blizzard with that **** of Diablo Immortal? The game is good and smartphone are tHe BeSttT so why taking into consideration the negative feedbacks and rant?. . . See?
3) Do you think having RCS + Ark of Sotek + Engine of Gods + 3 Skaven units is not something bad? Maybe I'm wrong but you are putting RCS over every single missing unit in order of importance. Seems like the DLC must not be released if RCS is not a unit before real units like Salamander and so on. Like a "no RCS no party". . . You know that RCS can be implemented as RoR, Blessed FLC unit or campaign only unit? You know that there are dozens of RCS mods on Steamworkshop? And you know that the only way to get Salamander, Razor, Trog with Oracle and Rippers is as new LP units? You can't add them with mods nor as blessed units nor RoR nor campaign only.
4) Your idea sounds pretty clear to me. LZ vs SK must be like Q&C. . . and with this method there will be several missing units, especially if Lizardmen will only get 2 units and 3 for Skaven (and at this point I don't know why we are not arguing for Albino and Red Stormfiends > Ratlings, Jezzails, Wolf Rats, Stormfiends, Brood Horrors and Doomflayers. . .) In this way RCS will take away the place of one or more real units. Slots? Yes. CA lazyness? Yes. Q&C like DLC? Yes. Cheapshow? Yes. The only way to get RCS and all those missing units is with a LP with 8-9 units, but you think this is unrealistic. . .
5) If you think Q&C contents are very good then are you agree with the statement of this Reddit guy here?
1) This doesn't change what I said; we don't have a breakdown of reasons for negative feedback. 2) Didn't say that. 3) Here you make up an LP, say I support it then criticize my support of an LP I haven't expressed support of. 4) Didn't support that either. 5) Not interested in answering.
I'm happy to discuss my points but none of this discusses my points except number 1. It's essentially you saying I support things then arguing against them.
I am The Beast of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
I really hope CA isn't reading this and taking the "demand" for an RCS unit seriously. It just might convince them that they can get away with fewer real units in favor of a literal reskin. They can then convince the bean counters that a larger budget for the LP isn't necessary since the community doesn't really care which units are added so long as there are more units than the previous LP. After all, 6 units total would technically still be more than Q&C even if one, two, or even all three new LM units are just different takes on existing units.
No, the LP needs to primarily focus on units that only they can produce such as Salamanders, Ripperdactyls, and Razordons. RCS can be accomplished via a host of other means; factionwide buff, RoR, new Blessed Spawnings, and even mods can take care of that demand, but those methods can't address the aforementioned new units. And even if they were going to penny pinch the budget for all it's worth, the Ark of Sotek and Engine of the Gods would be better additions since 1) they're legit army book units and 2) they'd at least add some modicum of variety to the roster.
If the LP adds those 3 high priorities, the Troglodon, and the 2 dino reskins they then have my permission (for whatever that's worth) to add RCS as an independent unit. But if any of those units is missing, then RCS will have jumped the line.
Saying RCS blocks off dinos is like saying we shouldn't be asking for Knights Panther because then we won't get Celestial Hurricanum because of that.
I thought asking for low hanging fruit is BECAUSE it's relatively inexpensive and wouldn't interfere with the budget. So I highly doubt RCS would have anything to do with them not being added.
Pretty much.
It's essentially impossible for RCS to take a slot. Slots probably aren't a thing, if they are they can't be the limiting factor. Even beyond that we wouldn't not get the RCS then instead get some expensive unit instead.
The whole thing simply doesn't make sense. RCS are cheap and that's a reason for adding them, not against.
Post edited by Beast_of_Guanyin#8747 on
I am The Beast of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
If you don't think Skink Lords have value that's'all good, but quite a lot of us want them, thus they should be in.
The same with RCS, they should definitely be in, in some form.
I just fear that RCS will take place of real unit. And all CA promises more units than QnC became is only RCS
You've got to remember that Q&C is a good DLC. It's got a 76% steam rating. For all the huffing there is about it, it's a well liked DLC. If this next DLC is better than it, that puts it right in the K&W territory.
Rise of the Tomb Kings- 87% King and the Warlord- 84% Norsca- 80% Curse of the Vampire Coast- 77% Queen and the Crone- 76% Grim and the Grave- 73% Realm of the Wood Elves- 70% Call of the Beastmen- 58% Warriors of Chaos- 43%
Compared to other paid content (I didn't include FLC since that's not really fair nor sporting) Queen and the Crone is literally 5th of 9. One number out of a hundred doesn't tell you a whole lot, but in context it shows that Q&C is just average as far as DLCs go. Not reviled like WoC nor revered like TK.
It's essentially impossible for RCS to take a slot. Slots probably aren't a thing, if they are they can't be the limiting factor. Even beyond that we wouldn't not get the RCS then instead get some expensive unit instead.
The whole thing simply doesn't make sense. RCS are cheap and that's a reason for adding them, not against.
Being cheap is great if we're talking Free update/FLC units on the level of Blood Knights, Harpies, or Giant Slayers where there's no expected return on investment on CA's part. But if we keep broadcasting "Hey CA, we'd happily accept this here unit, which would be a free addition in any other scenario, as part of the LP!" we just might inadvertently convince them to decrease the budget for the LP since they might think they could get just as much ROI from RCS as from a unit which would actually take some work but would be a legitimate improvement to the LM roster.
And yes, I know that's not what you're saying per se; I understand that you see it purely as a bonus but that you wouldn't sacrifice any of the other possible LM units for RCS (right?). I'm just not willing to take that risk. I also don't want a unit that would make all other Skink infantry irrelevant; I'd rather get units that add more tools to the LM army, not one that replaces tools we already have.
@Ol_Nessie Fair point. I think being in the middle and its rating qualify it as good. In pure relative terms you're right, it's literally the median. Still I think this whole idea that it's a terrible DLC or that getting something like it would be a disaster or whatever is false. It's a good DLC, at worst it's average or median. Personally I like it more than that, but objectively it falls from average to good.
No problems there, you've responded to what I've said intelligently as always. Frankly I'm starting to think that buff you described earlier would be a better solution than a unit. Anyway; I don't think they listen to us much, if at all. We'd need to be internal at CA to know the answer, but my impression is that whatever's said here simply doesn't matter. Maybe if there was a huge outcry for RCS it'd change something, but as is it's a handful of folk wanting it and a handful who don't.
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No problems there, you've responded to what I've said intelligently as always. Frankly I'm starting to think that buff you described earlier would be a better solution than a unit. Anyway; I don't think they listen to us much, if at all. We'd need to be internal at CA to know the answer, but my impression is that whatever's said here simply doesn't matter. Maybe if there was a huge outcry for RCS it'd change something, but as is it's a handful of folk wanting it and a handful who don't.
Nah, we gotta have this conversation on Reddit for them to pay attention to it
A couple of points on RCS: I agree that slots probably aren't a thing, but budget can work similarly. As a economic company CA is trying to maximize profit, with minimizing cost being a part of it. So if they think that they can get away with implementing RCS instead of something else to reduce the budget they'll do so. The cheapest way of keeping their more units "promise" is just putting one thing more on it, which will probably the cheapest option.
There are ways in which they don't need to be a simple recolour of the crest though. Firstly they could get new models for their equipment, honoring sotek. Maybe everything is made in or covered with (3d not just texture) snake shapes. Another thing is their physical difference beyond the crest. They are supposed to be more warlike skinks. So far we have one official model of a red crested skink, Tehenhauin. This guy is quite a lot beefier than the normal puny skinks. So if they would base all of them on the prophets TT model by making them larger, more muscular skinks with changed proportions, facial features and a more upright stance, the result would be quite interesting. Both of these suggestions could actually be combined. In the lore they are the blessed spawning of Sotek. So including them as such is always an option. The followers of the serpent god should get a mechanic offering them more frequently in that case. Generally, RCS seem to be a good fit for an FLC unit not unlike shadow walkers, especially if CA surprises us with an Thanquol and Kroak, High Priest themed, DLC. If that was the Case Tehenhauin might end up as FLC anyway. Seems unlikely though. Another concern is not making regular skinks useless. Just better red crested ones might dominate or contest the role the existing ones currently occupy. So limitation, differing armament or something else has to be engineered to avoid that problem. Maybe let them replace the cohort without javelins (stupid thing anyway) or give them two handed weapons (kind of unfitting), giving LM an (weak), AP infantry option. I find it really hard to find a solution allowing them to be justified as regular infantry.
Maybe let them replace the cohort without javelins (stupid thing anyway)
That's actually how it worked in the Red Host of Tehenhauin list: the Red Crested Skinks just had hand weapons and shields. The Red Host still relied on regular Skinks for skirmishers.
CA, please add Gor-Rok the Great White Lizard, as Itza's Legendary Lord.
N ohe's some kind of mid rank general, no "real" leader. Make it Kroak, who is at least spiritually their boss. He's also a better fit for the exotic Lord, which the FLC guys seem to be.
Comments
Lets imagine RCS aren't possible, lets magically expunge them from existence. If CA wanted to do a cheap unit it still could. There's plenty of options for cheap units. So with that we can conclude the idea that the RCS could take a slot, or that excluding it means we'll automatically get something else is false. That whole idea is from the outset critically flawed.
Furthermore this idea that because something is cheap to make it's bad is also false. It doesn't matter how much it costs to make, what matters is its value to the game. RCS are a highly valuable unit, them being cheap can only be an argument for them, not against.
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0 · Disagree AgreeTroglodon, i not see point into this unit. We had Carnosaur.
My bet riperdactyl, razordon and salamander.
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0 · Disagree AgreeRegiments of Renown are named regiments. There are a lot more RCS than that because they're basically a stronger breed of Skink.
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0 · Disagree AgreeNot only is it not loreful the entire point of having RCS would be skink themed armies. One unit simply isn't either good enough. It must either be a unit in its own right, or a buff.
CA shouldn't be afraid to add a valuable unit just because some folk will complain and make false accusations like saying it takes a "slot".
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0 · Disagree Agree- Should RCS be a unit? Nono.
- Is RCS a unit on the same level as Salamander, Skink Oracle with Troglodon, Razordon, Rippers? Absolutely nope. It's actually not even an 8th edition unit.
- Should RCS be in the DLC over one of two of those real 8th edition units? Absolutely nope.
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0 · Disagree AgreeIf CA choose to make a units focused DLC this time is also due to the negative feedbacks of Q&C.
Then you have to take into consideration that if RCS comes in the DLC, while Razordon and Ripperdactyls, or whatever, will not. . . then yup, RCS replaced those units. This is what people will think.
"Why putting a recolored RoR-like Skink Cohort over Razordon and Ripperdactyls? Lazy! Rant!"
And it's true, for the most part.
Put those recolored clones as Tehenhauin's campaign only unit. Do not risk the place of 1 or 2 or even 3 Lizardmen and Skaven real units because of it.
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1 · Disagree Agree-New Rules: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/287645/new-forum-rules#latest
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0 · Disagree AgreeFocusing on negative feedback is also a really bad idea. See, part of an honest self evaluation is knowing your weaknesses and your strengths. This is true across the board, from the professional world to personal, to sports. A key part of understanding how to get better is understanding in what ways you're good. Focusing on the negative is at best circular, and at worst a downward spiral because of human nature.
If people think that without RCS they'd get a fantastic unit instead then is that CA's problem? I don't think so. Ultimately some folk will be disappointed regardless, and that's okay. I just don't think CA should shy away from making a unit that would be highly valuable because it's afraid of criticism. I'd find this far more worthy of criticism than including a unit I don't like.
There is no risk of RCS replacing anything. That argument only holds weight if RCS are the only possible low effort unit and if without a low effort unit CA would for some reason spend all the time and resources on a good unit instead of nothing. It's a massively unlikely scenario.
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0 · Disagree Agree2) Focusing on negative feedbacks is a bad idea!? CA should not take into consideration bad feedbacks? So CA should not even try to solve problems, update and fix the game from bug and so on. . . because focusing on negative feedbacks from the players is a bad idea?
Basing on your words CA should have never replaced mini-campaign with more complete rosters. And they should never update the missing Old World races because rant and negative feedbacks says GS, for example, is actually a mess in everything.
Bethesda should not take into consideration the negative feedbacks and rant about Fallout 76 then. All good. For Bethesda the game is good so why take those feedbacks into consideration.
Blizzard with that **** of Diablo Immortal? The game is good and smartphone are tHe BeSttT so why taking into consideration the negative feedbacks and rant?. . . See?
3) Do you think having RCS + Ark of Sotek + Engine of Gods + 3 Skaven units is not something bad?
Maybe I'm wrong but you are putting RCS over every single missing unit in order of importance. Seems like the DLC must not be released if RCS is not a unit before real units like Salamander and so on.
Like a "no RCS no party". . .
You know that RCS can be implemented as RoR, Blessed FLC unit or campaign only unit? You know that there are dozens of RCS mods on Steamworkshop?
And you know that the only way to get Salamander, Razor, Trog with Oracle and Rippers is as new LP units? You can't add them with mods nor as blessed units nor RoR nor campaign only.
Here, enjoy:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1173408337
4) Your idea sounds pretty clear to me. LZ vs SK must be like Q&C. . . and with this method there will be several missing units, especially if Lizardmen will only get 2 units and 3 for Skaven (and at this point I don't know why we are not arguing for Albino and Red Stormfiends > Ratlings, Jezzails, Wolf Rats, Stormfiends, Brood Horrors and Doomflayers. . .)
In this way RCS will take away the place of one or more real units. Slots? Yes. CA lazyness? Yes. Q&C like DLC? Yes. Cheapshow? Yes.
The only way to get RCS and all those missing units is with a LP with 8-9 units, but you think this is unrealistic. . .
5) If you think Q&C contents are very good then are you agree with the statement of this Reddit guy here?
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2 · Disagree AgreeNo, the LP needs to primarily focus on units that only they can produce such as Salamanders, Ripperdactyls, and Razordons. RCS can be accomplished via a host of other means; factionwide buff, RoR, new Blessed Spawnings, and even mods can take care of that demand, but those methods can't address the aforementioned new units. And even if they were going to penny pinch the budget for all it's worth, the Ark of Sotek and Engine of the Gods would be better additions since 1) they're legit army book units and 2) they'd at least add some modicum of variety to the roster.
If the LP adds those 3 high priorities, the Troglodon, and the 2 dino reskins they then have my permission (for whatever that's worth) to add RCS as an independent unit. But if any of those units is missing, then RCS will have jumped the line.
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5 · Disagree AgreeI thought asking for low hanging fruit is BECAUSE it's relatively inexpensive and wouldn't interfere with the budget. So I highly doubt RCS would have anything to do with them not being added.
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0 · Disagree AgreeHaving RCS as an indipendent unit when there are RoR out there with better and more recolour than RCS would be absurd.
Imagine getting it and not Salamander.
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0 · Disagree AgreeThen if CA is so mad to put RCS and leaving out Razordon, Troglodon, Salamander or something else...don't try to negate the fact that i told you.
However my downvote IF CA will follow this road is ready.
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0 · Disagree AgreeFor an LP though, we do have a metric of anywhere between G&G, Q&C, or K&W. There is a limit on what we'll get since there is some expectation of ROI on CA's part and if we put it out there that an RCS unit is an acceptable element of the LP they very well might pick up on that and decide that the more involved units aren't worth the front end investment. Technically that's what reskin means. It's the same model with different colors or textures. An RoR is a reskin while two different units of human spearmen are in fact different models with different 3D assets. I agree with the sentiment though, getting RCS instead of Salamanders would be a travesty.
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0 · Disagree Agree2) Didn't say that.
3) Here you make up an LP, say I support it then criticize my support of an LP I haven't expressed support of.
4) Didn't support that either.
5) Not interested in answering.
I'm happy to discuss my points but none of this discusses my points except number 1. It's essentially you saying I support things then arguing against them.
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0 · Disagree AgreeIt's essentially impossible for RCS to take a slot. Slots probably aren't a thing, if they are they can't be the limiting factor. Even beyond that we wouldn't not get the RCS then instead get some expensive unit instead.
The whole thing simply doesn't make sense. RCS are cheap and that's a reason for adding them, not against.
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1 · Disagree AgreeKing and the Warlord- 84%
Norsca- 80%
Curse of the Vampire Coast- 77%
Queen and the Crone- 76%
Grim and the Grave- 73%
Realm of the Wood Elves- 70%
Call of the Beastmen- 58%
Warriors of Chaos- 43%
Compared to other paid content (I didn't include FLC since that's not really fair nor sporting) Queen and the Crone is literally 5th of 9. One number out of a hundred doesn't tell you a whole lot, but in context it shows that Q&C is just average as far as DLCs go. Not reviled like WoC nor revered like TK. Being cheap is great if we're talking Free update/FLC units on the level of Blood Knights, Harpies, or Giant Slayers where there's no expected return on investment on CA's part. But if we keep broadcasting "Hey CA, we'd happily accept this here unit, which would be a free addition in any other scenario, as part of the LP!" we just might inadvertently convince them to decrease the budget for the LP since they might think they could get just as much ROI from RCS as from a unit which would actually take some work but would be a legitimate improvement to the LM roster.
And yes, I know that's not what you're saying per se; I understand that you see it purely as a bonus but that you wouldn't sacrifice any of the other possible LM units for RCS (right?). I'm just not willing to take that risk. I also don't want a unit that would make all other Skink infantry irrelevant; I'd rather get units that add more tools to the LM army, not one that replaces tools we already have.
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2 · Disagree AgreeNo problems there, you've responded to what I've said intelligently as always. Frankly I'm starting to think that buff you described earlier would be a better solution than a unit. Anyway; I don't think they listen to us much, if at all. We'd need to be internal at CA to know the answer, but my impression is that whatever's said here simply doesn't matter. Maybe if there was a huge outcry for RCS it'd change something, but as is it's a handful of folk wanting it and a handful who don't.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI agree that slots probably aren't a thing, but budget can work similarly. As a economic company CA is trying to maximize profit, with minimizing cost being a part of it. So if they think that they can get away with implementing RCS instead of something else to reduce the budget they'll do so. The cheapest way of keeping their more units "promise" is just putting one thing more on it, which will probably the cheapest option.
There are ways in which they don't need to be a simple recolour of the crest though. Firstly they could get new models for their equipment, honoring sotek. Maybe everything is made in or covered with (3d not just texture) snake shapes.
Another thing is their physical difference beyond the crest. They are supposed to be more warlike skinks. So far we have one official model of a red crested skink, Tehenhauin. This guy is quite a lot beefier than the normal puny skinks. So if they would base all of them on the prophets TT model by making them larger, more muscular skinks with changed proportions, facial features and a more upright stance, the result would be quite interesting. Both of these suggestions could actually be combined.
In the lore they are the blessed spawning of Sotek. So including them as such is always an option. The followers of the serpent god should get a mechanic offering them more frequently in that case.
Generally, RCS seem to be a good fit for an FLC unit not unlike shadow walkers, especially if CA surprises us with an Thanquol and Kroak, High Priest themed, DLC. If that was the Case Tehenhauin might end up as FLC anyway. Seems unlikely though.
Another concern is not making regular skinks useless. Just better red crested ones might dominate or contest the role the existing ones currently occupy. So limitation, differing armament or something else has to be engineered to avoid that problem. Maybe let them replace the cohort without javelins (stupid thing anyway) or give them two handed weapons (kind of unfitting), giving LM an (weak), AP infantry option. I find it really hard to find a solution allowing them to be justified as regular infantry.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree