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11th to 17th Feb has to be the week they show off the full unit roster

Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Posts: 850Registered Users
So as this week is coming to a close we got a reveal of the last non-DLC playable warlord, being Dong Zhou. So now that we have that out of the way, this has to be the week where we finally get to see the full playable roster of all factions.
For the remaining two weeks they need to start showing off the yellow turban rebellion DLC, with regards to how they play and the characters involved.

I like the personalities, lore and motivations of the Warhammer Fantasy characters. However it is always the soldiers and regiments of each leader that is the main selling point for myself and many others (just like in any other older total war game).

To be fair what we have seen so far looks more diverse than ToB. For example 3K has a greater selection of shields and a larger range of weapons. Saying that the cavalry options and ranged options are about the same from what we have seen, instead of javelins we have crossbows and the more elite archers don't use peasant bows (but do they match the longbow), and the same issue goes for the cavalry.

We know barely anything about the artillery, although we have seen the traction trebuchet which was first recorded 20-120 years after the three kingdoms period ended so you can just about get away with fielding it.
We don't know if we are going to get exotic regiments that could be slightly historically inaccurate but still awesome, be it Japanese ninja regiments or the Roman gladiator regiments.
Did they use any beasts of war?

It would super suck if they locked all the unique units behind DLC paywalls. Alternatively CA is simply afraid of showing off the roster knowing that it is super small. I don't care too much about the campaign map gameplay, there are a plenty off cheap games by indie titles who have done indepth campaigns especially in the 3K setting. However none of them have the total war battles, and CA should remember this is what players buy their games for.
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Comments

  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 467Registered Users



    It would super suck if they locked all the unique units behind DLC paywalls. Alternatively CA is simply afraid of showing off the roster knowing that it is super small. I don't care too much about the campaign map gameplay, there are a plenty off cheap games by indie titles who have done indepth campaigns especially in the 3K setting. However none of them have the total war battles, and CA should remember this is what players buy their games for.

    Nope. Thats a super tiny part of why I buy them. In Warhammer 2 I only fought a total of 16 battles for the whole game. 200+ autocalc. I like having the campain map, I like manging my income and fighting the AI for land, I like painting the map, and occasionally ill do one of the long boring battles because they are easier to win on defense then autocalc. I like having each faction leader do unique things and have something that makes it diffrent from the other.

    I think I had a few exciting battles in Shogun 2 though, more then warhammer.

    I dont mind if they lock unique looks behind payway. Looks like most, if not all the important generals are already legendary, which is the same, just without the character model

    Also, which cheap indie titles are you talking about? Would really like to know of any indie titles that are that indepth, that give that awesome gameplay that I want.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,376Registered Users
    edited February 10
    I don't think they will do roster reveals since it looks like each playable faction has the same roster more or less. So there really isn't much to 'reveal' for each faction. One roster reveal for one faction would pretty much cover it unfortunately.

    I know that some of the heroes come with a couple unique units and/or they specialize in giving buffs to certain categories of units. But the bulk of the roster is literally copy/pasted between the various playable factions.

    A whole reveal just to show the handful of unique units each character has doesn't really seem worth it. What we will probably get instead is additional details/let's plays featuring the warlords themselves, and we will indirectly learn more about the units that way. But the marketing emphasis will likely continue to be the on the characters.

    On the whole, the more we learn about the rosters/battles, the more I'm getting lukewarm to the title in general. I split my gameplay time about 50/50 between the battles and campaign, Maybe 65/35 in favor of campaign in the late game once I'm just steam-rolling everything. Still, my favorite titles have always been the ones with the most faction diversity: Rome, Medieval, Warhammer. My least favorite titles on the other hand have been the ones with the most 'samey' battles: Empire, Shogun 2. I didn't even buy Thrones of Britannia partially because of the mono-roster critiques among other things.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the diplomacy, and campaign map improvements we're seeing. I would love to see those changes continue in future Total War games, and they seem good enough I'm tempted to buy 3K at some point. But if the battles are buggy, exploitable, quick, COMPLETELY hero-oriented, and the only reason to play more than one faction is try out the differences of a single character's personality type/recruitment preferences....rather than a totally different roster/tech tree/gameplay style...then it just doesn't feel like it's worth $60 to me. Maybe wait for a sale? I'm honestly not sure.

    Overall, 3K feels like it was a 2 steps forward, 1 step back entry in Total War series, which whether I get the game or not, is still definitely a disappointment, in that BOTH aspects of the game could/should have been improved and made meaningful forward progress imo.
  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Posts: 850Registered Users
    Yaafm said:



    It would super suck if they locked all the unique units behind DLC paywalls. Alternatively CA is simply afraid of showing off the roster knowing that it is super small. I don't care too much about the campaign map gameplay, there are a plenty off cheap games by indie titles who have done indepth campaigns especially in the 3K setting. However none of them have the total war battles, and CA should remember this is what players buy their games for.

    Nope. Thats a super tiny part of why I buy them. In Warhammer 2 I only fought a total of 16 battles for the whole game. 200+ autocalc. I like having the campain map, I like manging my income and fighting the AI for land, I like painting the map, and occasionally ill do one of the long boring battles because they are easier to win on defense then autocalc. I like having each faction leader do unique things and have something that makes it diffrent from the other.

    I think I had a few exciting battles in Shogun 2 though, more then warhammer.

    I dont mind if they lock unique looks behind payway. Looks like most, if not all the important generals are already legendary, which is the same, just without the character model

    Also, which cheap indie titles are you talking about? Would really like to know of any indie titles that are that indepth, that give that awesome gameplay that I want.
    Fine that is you. I personally like watching the animations of each unit as they fight, or experimenting with custom battle or watching semi-competitive multiplayer. Kind of feel sorry for the artist and animators who worked on these units but you barely play with them.

    Maybe I exaggerated a bit when I referred to as paradox intereactive studios as a small indie studio, or the games being cheap. Still there do plenty of extremely popular campaign map games from the Europa Universis series to the Hearts of Iron series. I stick to civilization for that stuff, but I play total war for battles.
  • AryndelinAryndelin Junior Member Posts: 1,029Registered Users
    A roster reveal would be nice.

    Like Yaafm im more of a campaign player than battle player though.
  • WileycoyoteWileycoyote Junior Member Posts: 166Registered Users
    Paradox should do a 3k! Ohh... sorry off point a lil. I buy both CA so don't be mad :X
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 15,566Registered Users
    Since it will be clone wars, reinforced by the unit cards smudging all features of the soldiers except their weapons and parts of their armor, what would be the point? The focus is clearly on the characters rather than the units. This isn't Warhammer.

  • hanesdavhanesdav Posts: 586Registered Users
    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    All factions have the same units and each famous character has access to one unique unit.
  • AryndelinAryndelin Junior Member Posts: 1,029Registered Users
    edited February 10
    Edit: Why did this get posted when i canceled it? >_<

    Anyways try 2:

    We don't know if all factions have access to the same units or not.
    I'm guessing both yes and no. Here''s why:

    Yellow turbans probably have their own roster, CA stated they got better early game units but worse late game units. (Think Long Yari Ashigaru vs regular ashigaru).

    The others probably have the same selection of core units spiced up with faction specific units.
    The Yuan Shao let's play under "Unique features" lists 2 units and an unknown portrait that indicates those captains.

    I'm guessing most faction (exept yellow turbans) has access to the same core units, but also have their own unique units (2-4 of those i guess?).

    There's some questions left as to where certain units are. Xiliang cavalry for example might be exclusive to Dong Zhuo\Lu Bu.
    Ma Teng gets the Qiang's
    Liu Bei the Yi Archer units
    Cao Cao shows as having 2 unique cavalry units too.

    However the uncertainty is why i want a unit roster.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 1,138Registered Users
    I'm looking forward to a roster reveal anyway. I think it will be a pretty limited roster with a lot of overlap between factions (at least between the Main factions/characters), but honestly that doesn't bother me.

    I really enjoyed Shogun 2 and Empire, and they had almost identical unit rosters between factions.
  • AryndelinAryndelin Junior Member Posts: 1,029Registered Users
    edited February 10

    I'm looking forward to a roster reveal anyway. I think it will be a pretty limited roster with a lot of overlap between factions (at least between the Main factions/characters), but honestly that doesn't bother me.

    I really enjoyed Shogun 2 and Empire, and they had almost identical unit rosters between factions.

    Agreed, Shogun 2 was amazing despite the "clone wars". In fact i think it came out better because of it since each unit was unique in their own way.

    However i think 3K is doing a different more "upgrade units" twist on things, which is one reason i want a roster reveal.
    There better be a good deal of unit variety and possible army composition if early game units gets outdated unlike the ashigaru of S2.
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 787Registered Users
    Aryndelin said:

    I'm looking forward to a roster reveal anyway. I think it will be a pretty limited roster with a lot of overlap between factions (at least between the Main factions/characters), but honestly that doesn't bother me.

    I really enjoyed Shogun 2 and Empire, and they had almost identical unit rosters between factions.

    Agreed, Shogun 2 was amazing despite the "clone wars". In fact i think it came out better because of it since each unit was unique in their own way.

    However i think 3K is doing a different more "upgrade units" twist on things, which is one reason i want a roster reveal.
    There better be a good deal of unit variety and possible army composition if early game units gets outdated unlike the ashigaru of S2.
    Early unit types remain relevant as long as the upkeep of units is balanced vs income of the player. Meaning that the player should always be economically limited to have only elite stack armies. In that way the player needs to balance it’s armies based on performance and upkeep cost. In previous titles the economic part was not balanced well enough vs upkeep cost. At least that’s my opinion.

    With regard to a roster reveal. Always like to know more about this game. Watched the latest play through 3 times already 🙃
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Posts: 152Registered Users
    hanesdav said:

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    All factions have the same units and each famous character has access to one unique unit.

    The Ma Teng video shows he has 3 units, I think 2-3 unique units for each warlord.

    Also, if you read the description of the yellow turban rebellion on the blog, it seems that the yellow turbans have their own complete unique roster, and that each of the three leaders have their own special units, some of the ones mentioned were religious fanatics and martial arts fighters.
  • VirantoViranto Junior Member Posts: 100Registered Users
    Factions should have mostly the same units. I don't want too much "fantasy" units. And we don't have so many cultures like Rome, Medieval or Warhammer. It's more like shogun.
    We have some tribes and some special untis. I'm little be nervous about the hate after the unit roster. Because a lot will don't understand, that there are so much of the same unit.
    But china is china. China isn't America, Europa, Afrika and Asia at once.
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Posts: 3,387Registered Users
    Even if every roster is the same I still want to see what the roster looks like guys, I don't get what is so hard to grasp about that.
  • AryndelinAryndelin Junior Member Posts: 1,029Registered Users
    edited February 10
    Viranto said:

    Factions should have mostly the same units. I don't want too much "fantasy" units. And we don't have so many cultures like Rome, Medieval or Warhammer. It's more like shogun.
    We have some tribes and some special untis. I'm little be nervous about the hate after the unit roster. Because a lot will don't understand, that there are so much of the same unit.
    But china is china. China isn't America, Europa, Afrika and Asia at once.

    Tbh, alot of units in rome 2 was copy paste stat and rolewise, even across cultures. They just had more or less unique models and\or textures. (note: Alot, not all. Rome was fairly unique if i remember right.)

    The old "omg clone wars" bonanza have been rather absent so far though. And i hope it stays that way. But people are different, some like having a gazillion "different" units. Others, like me, can live with shogun 2 based diversity.

    Edit: I hope this doesnt turn the thread into clone wars\unique wars discussion >.<
  • JerroserJerroser Posts: 69Registered Users
    The impression I got is that all factions (aside from yellow turbans) with have the same core unit rosters with a few specialist units that are unlocked based on the faction leader.

    I don't really think its work doing a proper unit roster list since all factions will likely just have a basic unit covering each category that will come in multiple tiers and the special units just being powerful elites covering each of these classes. The whole unit roster reveal thing is mostly unique to warhammer where each faction/race has its own highly specialized units and fighting styles that where unique to them with little crossover.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 1,138Registered Users
    Jerroser said:

    The impression I got is that all factions (aside from yellow turbans) with have the same core unit rosters with a few specialist units that are unlocked based on the faction leader.

    I don't really think its work doing a proper unit roster list since all factions will likely just have a basic unit covering each category that will come in multiple tiers and the special units just being powerful elites covering each of these classes. The whole unit roster reveal thing is mostly unique to warhammer where each faction/race has its own highly specialized units and fighting styles that where unique to them with little crossover.

    Well, I don't think anyone is expecting CA to put together a 15 or 20 minute video showcasing each unit individually and looking through their statistics, abilities, etc. A simple blog post would do just fine, like they did with ToB. I'd just like to see what we're getting and if there's any significant diversity or if it is just a "clone wars" roster.
  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Posts: 850Registered Users
    Firstly I reconise that each faction is going to have some shared units, especially the low tier infantry. However regardless of what units are going to shared or not, there better be a good amount of unit diversity all around.
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 787Registered Users
    Wouldn’t be to worried. What we’ve seen so far looks like there will be plenty of variation.
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 467Registered Users
    Jerroser said:

    The impression I got is that all factions (aside from yellow turbans) with have the same core unit rosters with a few specialist units that are unlocked based on the faction leader.

    I don't really think its work doing a proper unit roster list since all factions will likely just have a basic unit covering each category that will come in multiple tiers and the special units just being powerful elites covering each of these classes. The whole unit roster reveal thing is mostly unique to warhammer where each faction/race has its own highly specialized units and fighting styles that where unique to them with little crossover.

    So far, from the information we have on had. The factions have the same exact units, each faction they have shown us have 1 or 2 unique units for that faction. Some HEROS come with a unique unit as well. It looks like each warlord type, gets advanced units asscoiated with those types, the other types cannot recruit.


    Maybe I exaggerated a bit when I referred to as paradox intereactive studios as a small indie studio, or the games being cheap. Still there do plenty of extremely popular campaign map games from the Europa Universis series to the Hearts of Iron series. I stick to civilization for that stuff, but I play total war for battles.

    I love Paradox, unfortunatly I played the hell out of all that and looking for something new. They got age of wonders coming eventually, but it doesn look great ATM.
  • SkarbandSkarband Member Posts: 489Registered Users
    I think we will at least get 3 units for each unit type (militia, soldiers and elite). Then we have units like Azure Dragons that don't fall into any category. The reason I think why there are 3 types, is in early previews one of the developers said that you get 3 classes of animations for each type of unit (militia, soldier and elite). So there are animations for militia spearmen, soldier spearmen and elite spearmen.

    So it could look like this for spearmen: militia spearmen (militia), spear guard (soldiers) and elite spearmen (elites). The elite spearmen could be could be Imperial guard, but this unit is only available if you declare yourself Emperor.

    By the looks of it Yellow turban have a fully unique roster. Also I think they will also have unique categories of units like the club infantry which where classed as being chanters and not well club infantry.

    The following I don't know, but the Bandit warlords could also have their own roster and with them later getting the same kind of troops (so same elites) as the "normal" warlords.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 15,566Registered Users
    Krunch said:

    Even if every roster is the same I still want to see what the roster looks like guys, I don't get what is so hard to grasp about that.

    Spearmen, swordsmen, halberdier, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, archer, crossbowmen...what exactly are you expecting them to field? They made the unit cards so generic and anonymous, it's clear even CA agrees this is going to be clone wars central.

  • ImperatorAnonimusImperatorAnonimus Posts: 285Registered Users
    I wouldn't expect any ninja or Romans. However, I wouldn't at all be surprised if tigers and elephants make it in as some of Nanman's more unique units. Boy, would I love to see what it looks like to unleash a bunch of trained tigers onto the battlefield...
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 15,566Registered Users

    I wouldn't expect any ninja or Romans. However, I wouldn't at all be surprised if tigers and elephants make it in as some of Nanman's more unique units. Boy, would I love to see what it looks like to unleash a bunch of trained tigers onto the battlefield...

    Well, that for sure would be even more fantastical than the one-man army superhero characters.

  • PixeldiktatorPixeldiktator Posts: 116Registered Users
    edited February 11
    A roster reveal would be really nice tbf

    It's not just about who has which units, but also how many units there at all. Maybe it is clone wars, maybe it isn't and the rosters are actually quite large and varied.

    We know that factions ptobably have at least 2 unique units, e.g. Cao Cao's Tiger & Leopard cavalry, but that doesn't mean that Cao Cao doesn't have more unique units (compare Warhammer 2s special unit section in the main menu).

    Plus we haven't even talked about mercenaries, are there maybe a few non-chinese units from launch, etc.
    Post edited by Pixeldiktator on
  • chortles81chortles81 Posts: 66Registered Users
    Last I heard everyone gets all militia units, then their other options are a mix of faction-specific, hero type-specific, Reforms/building-unlocked, and character rank-unlocked. For example, the strategist Xu You from the February 6th livestream had for his options all militia, Warriors of Ye for being in Yuan Shao's faction, Defenders of Hebei upon reaching character rank 3 and still in Yuan Shao's faction, any units unlocked by Yuan Shao's Reforms (e.g. Ji Infantry from going down the appropriate Reforms branch) or current buildings, and then whatever units were strategist-exclusive; if I recall correctly that was three archer units (each gated behind a character rank culminating in Onyx Dragons at character rank 8) and the trebuchet.
    Skarband said:

    Then we have units like Azure Dragons that don't fall into any category.

    In both Ambush of Sun Ren (Gamescom/TwitchCon 2018) and Lü Bu Perishes at Xiapi (E3 2018) the Azure Dragons were classified as heavy spear infantry. (The Yellow Dragons they were supporting were deemed light melee infantry, though armed with hand axes and shields.)

    We know that factions ptobably have at least 2 unique units, e.g. Cao Cao's Tiger & Leopard cavalry, but that doesn't mean that Cao Cao has more unique units (compare Warhammer 2s special unit section in the main menu).

    Angry Joe's preview photo seems to verify that they're his faction-specific units, in medium (Lü Bu Perishes at Xiapi) and heavy versions (Ambush of Sun Ren) versions.

    Plus we haven't even talked about mercenaries, are there maybe a few non-chinese units from launch, etc.

    Mercenaries appeared in Ambush of Sun Ren; her retinue comprised a pair of Mercenary Cavalry (medium shock) and Mercenary Infantry (medium melee). CA has said that mercenaries deploy at full strength (vs. regular units' Thrones of Britannia-style mustering at partial strength) in return for costing more than regular units, but apparently both construction and development of the building chain is unique to Sun Jian's faction so other factions has to capture the building(s) to unlock mercenaries.
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 787Registered Users
    Don’t know about the faction specific units though. As it seems from the latest stream warriors of ye are the same as yi infantry which are your generic infantry unit.
  • chortles81chortles81 Posts: 66Registered Users
    If by "yi infantry" you meant from Liu Bei's faction preview, those were faction-specific archers.
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 787Registered Users

    If by "yi infantry" you meant from Liu Bei's faction preview, those were faction-specific archers.

    Nope
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/4v/ibjmm3u3bcpf.png
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 787Registered Users
    Unit card faction specific unit is identical to generic one. Curious if this is the case with all faction specific units or a one off
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