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DE vs WE Help.

KingLuddKingLudd Posts: 4Registered Users
I'm a newish player and I'm having trouble defeating WE as DE simply cause I have problems countering kite builds. I'm not going to complain about it cause it's a legit tactic and I think it'll make me a better player the more I play against it. But what is the overall tactical thought process behind it as a DE player? What should I being doing? What should my areas of focus be? What type of units should I focus on? Thanks for your help in advance.

Comments

  • B6edwardsB6edwards Posts: 5Registered Users
    We is definitely a hard match up for de. They have superior range and mobility advantage. Make sure u have a front line with missile block chance. Harpies and shielded dark riders can work. But it is hard to get into a good opponents back line. Having a lord that can soulsteal can help in case u get caught out in a bad situation with net and waywatchers. I'm sure someone who has more XP with the match up will post soon tho.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 5,671Registered Users
    Hey i really enjoy vsing WE's as DE's but when i do use WE's here i do exploit the main DE weakness witch is short ranged missiles.

    There are two ways to approach WE kite style as DE's one is to have a way of them coming towards you (bolt throwers) and other is to go after them with speed or many units (so either cav heavy force or a 15 to 20 stack army).

    If you go with defensive set up make sure you take about 3 bolt throwers and have few scouting units far out (say 2 swordmen) out the front.

    If you go other approach make sure your units don't overextend as WE are great at picking of isolated units. And keep your lord a bit back and only engage with the lord once your army hits his.

    Come on my stream if you like i play elves majority of the time and i be happy to play this match-up and show you my approach.

    Some units to avoid in my view as they seem good but are not really in this match-up; Harpies, Executioners and Dark shards (shielded ones are ok).
  • KingLuddKingLudd Posts: 4Registered Users
    Thanks for responding Lotus. So with the bolt throwers I'd obviously want to keep some spearmen back to guard against Wild Rider play? What should I be focusing in on with the bolt throwers? Waywatchers and Glade Guard seem like the obvious choice. What do you normally shoot at?
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 5,671Registered Users
    KingLudd said:

    Thanks for responding Lotus. So with the bolt throwers I'd obviously want to keep some spearmen back to guard against Wild Rider play? What should I be focusing in on with the bolt throwers? Waywatchers and Glade Guard seem like the obvious choice. What do you normally shoot at?

    I would keep cold one knights there to be honest as they could respond not only to wild riders but also help support any units that break, plus you want them kept away from his ranged units so they dont rampage.

    I would target any ranged units first as they are his key to victory or at least key to be the aggressor against you. Key play here is to ensure you do have this swordsmen ahead as scouts but within support range of your army so they dont just get front on charged. You could try fire mage and just fire ball wild riders also or death mage as your your choice, this lets you have cheap lord that casts spells so you can spend more on your army while still having a safe lord option that has impact on the game. If you going for a more melee army i would go with malekith or morathi over such lord.
  • ThousandScoundrelsThousandScoundrels Posts: 9Registered Users
    edited February 11
    Lotus,

    I'm a newish player, and I see little point with fireball over other spells. Is is in general a good spell, or only notable in a WE matchup?

    Also, how do you feel about facing Black Guards when facing them as WE? Are they better as a reserve unit (such as the cold one rider's usage you mentioned), or as a front line? I think that even armoured as they are, I wouldn't want to commit them to a front line vs WE shooting.

    Cold Ones I just imagine would rampage way too early in the match, unless they literally are deep in reserve.
  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 874Registered Users
    I'm not Lotus, but to your questions
    1)Fireball is an awesome spell for a variety of purposes, if you manage to get it to hit a blob of troops from the side, it will pierce and gather a good few kills, which is really good for the WoM, and they obviously cant be healed. Otherwise, it's a great spell for sniping artillery pieces really reliably, and can consistently land hits against slower single targets making it good vs a lot of lords/heroes. There really aren't any matches where it's a bad spell tbh.
    2)Black guard are, imo, a really bad choice vs WE. They're really susceptible to being whittled down by ranged fire, and aren't really agile enough to prevent a unit like wild riders from shutting down your backline, plus they cost 1300. Wood Elves tend to do really well vs pricy units, especially pricy slow units. Keep in mind that for 1300 you can get nearly 3 dreadspears, or a cold one rider and 2/3rds of a dreadspear, and both are likely to be more valuable. Basically they have to play defensive, but they aren't as effective defensively as the CoK's.
    3)Getting cold ones to rampage can be a bit difficult if you're effectively screening with bleakswords the way lotus is describing, since you have to get well within bolt thrower range to get shots in.
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  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 5,671Registered Users

    Lotus,

    I'm a newish player, and I see little point with fireball over other spells. Is is in general a good spell, or only notable in a WE matchup?

    Also, how do you feel about facing Black Guards when facing them as WE? Are they better as a reserve unit (such as the cold one rider's usage you mentioned), or as a front line? I think that even armoured as they are, I wouldn't want to commit them to a front line vs WE shooting.

    Cold Ones I just imagine would rampage way too early in the match, unless they literally are deep in reserve.

    It was pretty much anwsered above and i agree with what was said.

    Fire ball vs WE's is good because it allowes your lord to stay out of range of his missiles just target wild riders with it not fast heroes or lords, you can take fire sword as your 2nd spell fpr later in the game.

    Yeah i would stay away from black guard, and if you really want them than max 1 unit, while they are a great unit on their own they just dont have a way to engage WE's on their terms, they would be ideal target for waywatchers or even sustained fire from other saurces.

    Yes Cold ones can be made to rampage but its why they are discounted compared to other cav, key is if your able to get the best use out of them it be hard for your opponemt to make them rampage early on in the game, but it is something i would try to do as a WE player, if your worried about cold one knights take doomfire warlocks, they are great in this match up.
  • RiggsenRiggsen Member Posts: 2,501Registered Users
    From the DE side, its important to make use of your cheap silver shielded infantry. Basically if you can get the WE player wasting ammo on bleakswords and dreadspears, that’s half the battle won.
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • ThousandScoundrelsThousandScoundrels Posts: 9Registered Users
    Cheers, very helpful all three of you. It's good to see the opposing perspective.
  • hanenhanen Posts: 227Registered Users
    I love this matchup!

    I've mainly played it from WE perspective and I've had some fun games vs this known kiter Lotus Goon or something. :)

    As DE you are out ranged, are less effective in the air and depending on the build you might also have less overall mobility.

    On the plus side are silver shields, cost effective cav, great lords choices and being better in combat.

    I would stay away from expensive infantry like Black Guard. They are prime targets for breath attacks, waywatchers and so on.

    Going wide is the best option in my view. Cheap silver shields up front. One or two unit of handbows are pretty decent as well. One unit of Witch Elves could be good if you can protect them from taking damage before combat. They make cycle charging less attractive. Cold Ones are good but are countered by eternal guard. One or two units at the most. I like warlocks a lot but with the price increases they arent worth spamming any more. 1 units as well as the RoR one should be enough to counter WE cav units. Just beware of Deep Wood Scouts with Magic arrows. Mounted crossbow cav are also good but you need to stay away from glade riders.

    As for lords. Morathi and Malekith are my recommended choices because they can heal. Wood Elves can easily snipe a Lord if you get out of position. I wouldn't go for a Dragon Lord because then you don't have enough units on the ground.

    Fireball can be really good as Lotus wrote above. It's range makes WE be more cautious with lords, cav and so on.
  • ThirdeyeThirdeye Posts: 78Registered Users
    WE strengths are range and speed. The way to beat them is to beat them at their own game: Range and speed. Take Reaper Bolt Throwers and spam Dark Riders w/ shields and Doomfire Warlocks. Rush and run them down.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 5,671Registered Users
    Thirdeye said:

    WE strengths are range and speed. The way to beat them is to beat them at their own game: Range and speed. Take Reaper Bolt Throwers and spam Dark Riders w/ shields and Doomfire Warlocks. Rush and run them down.

    Than you realise that Eternal Guard will just solo that whole army. I don't think DE can fight WE at range at all but rushing WE is not a bad idea just not with doomfire and dark riders alone.

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