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How will CA keep up the hype?

VirantoViranto Junior MemberPosts: 179Registered Users
edited February 11 in General Discussion
What do you mean, how will they keep up the hype about the game? I mean to may is a long time, for feeding us with new stuff.
Because they show us already the best new features about the game, what would they do now?

Only things we don't have see is yellow turban and the classic mode of the game.

But i think her biggest news, with dong zhuo was a lot to early now. The hype would gone to May, for the most of the customers.

They can make Lets Plays, but I think to get now 10 Lets Plays Videos every Week one, would a bit boring. And for me, I don't will see so much Lets Plays, because they destroy my interest, when I see any single step of the game.

But now we know all factions, the map, all new features(?). I think they have made all these trailers now a lot to early.

Comments

  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 2,778Registered Users
    There'll be a Skaven induced rest from 3K.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 9,213Registered Users
    So you feel like CA had reveal many of Total War: Three Kingdoms features too soon?
    4 Fully Independent Monogods Armies would be great for a Storyline about the Great Game in Total War: Warhammer 3.
  • juankkjuankk Posts: 196Registered Users
    i feel like a game that has practilly same battles like other titiles than 7 years ago, sieges are useless and boring, units directly invade cities, no siege equipment , rams who destroy doors instantly, and other stuff removed Fromm the game.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 1,333Registered Users
    Viranto said:

    What do you mean, how will they keep up the hype about the game? I mean to may is a long time, for feeding us with new stuff.
    Because they show us already the best new features about the game, what would they do now?

    Only things we don't have see is yellow turban and the classic mode of the game.

    But i think her biggest news, with dong zhuo was a lot to early now. The hype would gone to May, for the most of the customers.

    They can make Lets Plays, but I think to get now 10 Lets Plays Videos every Week one, would a bit boring. And for me, I don't will see so much Lets Plays, because they destroy my interest, when I see any single step of the game.

    But now we know all factions, the map, all new features(?). I think they have made all these trailers now a lot to early.

    It's a fair point, to be honest. But I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

    The delay means that the next Warhammer 2 DLC will release before 3K does. That means that barely a month before 3K releases, CA is going to shift it's marketing/advertising from 3K (their next flagship title) to a minor DLC for Warhammer 2.
    And if previous DLCs are anything to go by, then you can be damn sure that CA is going to break out all the bells and whistles for it - livestreams, blog posts, Let's Plays, you name it.

    What happens then? It's not easy to suddenly shift back into top gear and pick up where they left off with 3K. Quite a lot of players who originally had no interest in 3K were just warming up to it and thought it looked very exciting. Now Warhammer 2 steals back the spotlight right before 3K releases and... poof... no more interest in 3K.

    If anything, it's certainly going to hurt the sales of the game. And that will affect it's longevity.
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 889Registered Users
    People will look at this as bad. What was so bad they needed 3 months of polish? Who thought march would be ok?

    It had some negative before. Now its gonna be worse.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 1,333Registered Users
    edited February 11
    Yaafm said:

    People will look at this as bad. What was so bad they needed 3 months of polish? Who thought march would be ok?

    It had some negative before. Now its gonna be worse.

    I don't think the game is suddenly going to be bombed.

    Sure, you'll get the usual YouTube muppets (who shall remain nameless) claiming that this is irrefutable proof that the game is a total disaster and they were right all along! > Insert Obnoxious Evil Laugh <

    But a lot of the comments and reactions I've seen on the forums and Facebook are along the lines of: "Well, that's a bit disappointing, but if it means the game comes out in a much better state then I'm happy!" A few people are delighted to hear that the game is getting extra polishing.
  • sccrboi01sccrboi01 Senior Member Posts: 309Registered Users

    Yaafm said:

    People will look at this as bad. What was so bad they needed 3 months of polish? Who thought march would be ok?

    It had some negative before. Now its gonna be worse.

    I don't think the game is suddenly going to be bombed.

    Sure, you'll get the usual YouTube muppets (who shall remain nameless) claiming that this is irrefutable proof that the game is a total disaster and they were right all along! > Insert Obnoxious Evil Laugh <

    But a lot of the comments and reactions I've seen on the forums and Facebook are along the lines of: "Well, that's a bit disappointing, but if it means the game comes out in a much better state then I'm happy!" A few people are delighted to hear that the game is getting extra polishing.
    True but it also puts CA in a much tighter spot. After two such delays, the game better come out without any major hitches or bugs and clearly give players what was shown and advertised. The last thing CA needs is a release along the same lines as Rome 2......
    Most peoples' response to Rome II expansion...."Please Sir may I have some more"......

    My Massagetae, battered and bloody, but undefeated in the field! True masters of battle :)! Masters of campaigning on the other hand, unfortunately not.......:(
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 9,213Registered Users

    Viranto said:

    What do you mean, how will they keep up the hype about the game? I mean to may is a long time, for feeding us with new stuff.
    Because they show us already the best new features about the game, what would they do now?

    Only things we don't have see is yellow turban and the classic mode of the game.

    But i think her biggest news, with dong zhuo was a lot to early now. The hype would gone to May, for the most of the customers.

    They can make Lets Plays, but I think to get now 10 Lets Plays Videos every Week one, would a bit boring. And for me, I don't will see so much Lets Plays, because they destroy my interest, when I see any single step of the game.

    But now we know all factions, the map, all new features(?). I think they have made all these trailers now a lot to early.

    It's a fair point, to be honest. But I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

    The delay means that the next Warhammer 2 DLC will release before 3K does. That means that barely a month before 3K releases, CA is going to shift it's marketing/advertising from 3K (their next flagship title) to a minor DLC for Warhammer 2.
    And if previous DLCs are anything to go by, then you can be damn sure that CA is going to break out all the bells and whistles for it - livestreams, blog posts, Let's Plays, you name it.

    What happens then? It's not easy to suddenly shift back into top gear and pick up where they left off with 3K. Quite a lot of players who originally had no interest in 3K were just warming up to it and thought it looked very exciting. Now Warhammer 2 steals back the spotlight right before 3K releases and... poof... no more interest in 3K.

    If anything, it's certainly going to hurt the sales of the game. And that will affect it's longevity.
    Well the next Warhammer DLC would be smaller than the previous Warhammer DLC, because it would be a Lord Pack and not a Faction Pack, it would add a character and few extra units for a two existing Factions, instead of adding a whole new Faction like the previous DLC, but that said, ya CA would still likely do some marketing/advertising for the new DLC.

    4 Fully Independent Monogods Armies would be great for a Storyline about the Great Game in Total War: Warhammer 3.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,334Registered Users
    The problem isn't that it was delayed, again.

    The problem was this delay was announced just weeks from release, therefore was decided just weeks from release, therefore they did not foresee a lot earlier that this second delay would be necessary. Anyone being honest with themselves about the state of the old build used to showcase a month ago would have realised this. That was 'six weeks old' in December, which is still just 18 weeks from release and yet it was in an Alpha-state, not Beta. Features were still being added, because 'influencers' could only use 20 minutes of footage from their 30 turns of game-time. Features still being worked on rather than bugs is the difference between and Alpha and a Beta.

    I mentioned a few days ago; there was no announcement that the game had 'gone gold', as in it was in a state where CA-Sega felt it was good enough to burn onto a factory master-disc for producing boxed copies. I was expecting either this gold announcement within the week, or an announced delay and now we have a delay.

    This is based on the fact that almost every Total War of recent years has had no gold announcement, but all of them have had release delays. CA-Sega does announce gold for games which do not get delayed, such as Halo Wars 2 and Alien: Isolation. In those cases they were working for someoned other than just Sega; Microsoft and 20th Century Fox respectively. Funny what CA can achieve when Sega have a strong disincentive not to interfere with something.
  • Shogun_SanjuroShogun_Sanjuro Posts: 66Registered Users
    To be honest, 3 months of polishing? Damn, there must be some major bugs in the game.

    Could you imagine if it came out Fall 2018?
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 889Registered Users
    The hype will not keep up. When release does start to come up, either we will know so much after three more months of content drop, or many will be dulled to it by then.

    I will still keep.my preorder, but this effectively killed the hype for me. It's gone from a must play release day, to when I get to it.

    I mean, they don't care about that, they still got my money so huzzah
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 17,223Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Posts edited or deleted. Keep the personal insults and CA bashing comments out of the post discussion. Express your thoughts within the Forum Terms & Conditions, or don't post.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,334Registered Users
    Hype is almost always bad for the playerbase of a game and this harms the game itself. Hype is typically only good for the publisher of said game, who then chooses what harm to pass on to others; the developer or players who have bought-in.

    Case in point: 2K made a profit from Evolve, a game that tanked after getting extreme hype that was used to drown out the concerns over it's DLC. The consequences for players like myself who were heavily-invested were the upfront payment for which we could have bought two of any other game that year being lost, getting in return a game with a very short active life and little hope for a future. I decided shortly after that the TW Warhammer trilogy would be the last time I ever got invested in any game, buyng the collector's editions to remind me forever: without the sentimental value it's just cheap, over-priced clutter.

    The opposing case is Dawn of War 3; a game that had the same fate as Evolve but with the benefit of the criticism managing to fight the hype. This saved many more players from being suckered into something doomed to fail because the developer did not take any criticism on-board, possibly killing a beloved and established franchise for good.

    Hype will not save a game. Criticism will not destroy a game. Hype will leave many people in tears over what happens. Criticism will leave them in tears only over what might have been. I know which I prefer, having gone through these experiences too many times now.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 17,223Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Let's keep the thread conversation within the confines of the opening post. Thanks.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • chortles81chortles81 Posts: 140Registered Users
    It seems that the Wednesday (the 13th) and next-Wednesday (the 20th) streams are still on so within this month there's still stuff to talk about, and we're supposed to still be finally getting a Records mode video. Dunno what CA had planned for post-March 7th-launch hype/marketing but that could come into play before the new release date...?
  • IcestrugleIcestrugle Junior Member Posts: 1,110Registered Users

    It seems that the Wednesday (the 13th) and next-Wednesday (the 20th) streams are still on so within this month there's still stuff to talk about, and we're supposed to still be finally getting a Records mode video. Dunno what CA had planned for post-March 7th-launch hype/marketing but that could come into play before the new release date...?

    A certain period of time will be occupied with DLC for wharhammer. Like 2 weeks. The other probably yellow turban playthrought, historycal mode,multiplayer. I remember the times when people complained where is my info. Now there are time to get bored of it
  • juankkjuankk Posts: 196Registered Users
    Maybe we’ll see a great epic siege battle or new with regard some king of coast or river battle
  • VirantoViranto Junior Member Posts: 179Registered Users
    edited February 12
    I think because of Delay, CA make maybe some new trailers with factions, which don't have her own trailers.
    Or trailers like Zhuge Liang, for only one person. Maybe a Lu Bu only trailer at the end. They must do something, to get it up again, after Warhammer. When i see only the same stuff in form of Livestreams, this would be boring. I buy the game, but it is a lot different if i buy it with hype or without. With hype I have a lot more fun in 3K.
  • JacquestheApostateJacquestheApostate Senior Member Posts: 585Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    Posts edited or deleted. Keep the personal insults and CA bashing comments out of the post discussion. Express your thoughts within the Forum Terms & Conditions, or don't post.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions

    So it's not ok to say CA is being mismanaged? Announce one date and stick to it. Have people doing the job who are actually qualified to make that call. Is that too much to ask?!
    Looking forward to Three Kingdoms big time. Warhammer was never my thing.
    Shogun II Avatar Campaign is the most fun I have had with Total War games!
    Gun Cav in Shogun II should have a Retainer!
    Give us another Avatar Campaign!
  • acroguePatrickacroguePatrick Posts: 332Registered Users
    While I am very disappointed in CA's delay, I'm still not sure what three extra months will do. CA announced this game in Jan 2018. They showed next to nothing until E3 showing a scripted battle of 20 minutes. That's it. It took them a couple more months to show the campaign map (when they should have shown this at the first announcement.) Then trailers came which is good and we got more videos of the campaign map etc.

    I'm happy that CA has certainly improved their marketing, but this is one of the worst marketing campaigns I have ever seen. Shogun 2 wasn't delayed.

    But that worries me - if RII was rushed out that day - clearly with no features being added in - then how will 3k fare any better? Are total war games big messy bug releases at launch?

    My question is, how will CA keep this game hyped? I mean keep it interested? You've already shown the campaign and battles - what else is apart from that? 3k doesn't have a unique multiplayer section - where Avatar conquest would be an excellent feature for a game with a romance mode.

    Show videos of battle environments or something.

    If Angry Joe has the copy of the game and can play this game for three months un-interrupted, why should we fans be neglected? Shouldn't we get a review copy as well to play away? Sure it may have bugs - but its better than having to wait another three months - although this idea wouldn't work realistically.

    CA - Improve the marketing and keep us interested. I love this period. And I am sure you do as well. So please, find a way. If you're going to cater for both fantasy/historical fans - and we have to find a way to unite China, then do it. Find a way.

    Look at Angry Joe's screenshot for one second. That's the entire game. I'm sorry to say the menu doesn't look great. What happened to the big old grand menu titles? Its just the faction lords, and that's it. Even 3k mod for Med 2 has a better screen selection here with much more information.

    You can make a web-series comic on youtube with scripted actors etc. I mean CA loves this period - the amount of devotion and dedication to making this game has to be praised.

    But please, when the game goes gold - Don't cut. I posted it in a thread about pre-ordering RII back in TWC in 2013, many fans told me the game had gotten gold. I realised the error of that.

    I want this game to be a massive success and smash all the negativity that currently resides around total war. So you'd better make this purchase worth it.

    Besides that, I'm not really sure what you can do.

    However you can do this:

    If you have the three streams - do MORE STREAMS UNTIL the RELEASE!

    Every Wednesday, from 3-4 - show the Cao Clan, show the Sun Jian Clan, etc. I mean there's no harm in doing that is there? I'm fed up of not having to play the game. Already the developers have had so much fun playing this game by themselves, we fans also want something new.

    Also the text is too small to read. Please make it bigger.

    Custom battle? What else will we get from that? How many battle terrains, ambush battles we will fight?

    I'm sure the team at CA want this game released, and I too want the same. But CA, you better spend time making cinematic intros, or cinematic videos. I mean do it in the style of the Shogun 2 which clearly explained what was going on.

    Here you have too many elaborate videos not explaining what it is.

    What did Shogun 2 have?

    Ashikaga Shogunate ruled for 400 years. They became weak, the warlords broke off, and Japan is split into civil war.

    Why isn't 3k explained in these simple terms?

    Han Empire ruled for 400 years, they became weak, the warlords broke off, and China is in civil war.

    Simply market the game like this. The trailers do focus on this, but its not well explained.

    There better be faction intros for the warlords. It'll be disappointing to have that advisor explaining stuff - no. I loved Shogun 2 because of the unique faction intros each clan had.

    Bear in mind that you can make 3k better by giving the splash of Shogun 2 colours. I mean Sengoku Jidhai was a colourful battlefield, and you can make the Cao Clan have different colours say than the Liu Bei clan, etc.

    I don't want this game being delayed for ever and forever. If it does then this is not good. How many bugs are in this game already? I read the blog post about the developer saying they're going into pre-production and the campaign map looks gorgeous, and the battlefields look great.

    So why delay now? You've had an entire year to fix bugs. Bugs like this should be present in the old versions, not the new one.

    It didn't take long for TOB to release either.

    What else are they going to show now tbh? They better give an incentive by saying we will introduce Cathay into Warhammer 3. (For those that say its not related, well it is. Three Kingdoms is the first title set in Asia apart from Japan, and its China. The modding community made some fantastic mods with Med 2 over China etc. 3K becomes a success encouraging CA to make more DLC - I bet you they will get attracted to Cathay very simply. Because now they have the asssets/models to make a fantasy China faction - it will happen. Cathay is literally the romance mode faction of 3k. Duels, warriors/dragons - etc. So many fans saying the Romance mode carries too many Warhammer influences, it will do the same here.)

    So CA's blog of how they will keep us interested is too vague - do continuous streams. I WANT THIS EXCELLENT GAME!
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 844Registered Users
    THE DAILY DUEL

    Show champions clash and fight to the death.
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 844Registered Users
    I noticed today, my hype died. I realized this when they posted the Lu Bu poster and I didn't really care.
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 889Registered Users
    tfwoods3 said:

    I noticed today, my hype died. I realized this when they posted the Lu Bu poster and I didn't really care.

    yup, like, its cool, Lu Bu! But, so? I cant try it for 3 months. When it was closer it was like, OMG OMG its almost here, I can play Lu Bu!
  • Shogun_SanjuroShogun_Sanjuro Posts: 66Registered Users
    Same. The hypes gone, lmao.

    I'm still leaveing my collector's edition pre-order up, but I mean... I'm not even going to bother getting 'hyped' until the very last week before it's release.

    I refuse to watch any new videos they release and read any blogs until May 15th at the earliest.
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 889Registered Users
    edited February 13

    Same. The hypes gone, lmao.

    I'm still leaveing my collector's edition pre-order up, but I mean... I'm not even going to bother getting 'hyped' until the very last week before it's release.

    I refuse to watch any new videos they release and read any blogs until May 15th at the earliest.

    Im gonna watch the rest of Yuan Shao's lets play, its offical at least. Also I had Zero Intention of playing his story so I dont mind watching it play out. Maybe get some inside info for when I come kick his butt as his brother.
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 844Registered Users
    edited February 13

    Same. The hypes gone, lmao.

    I'm still leaveing my collector's edition pre-order up, but I mean... I'm not even going to bother getting 'hyped' until the very last week before it's release.

    I refuse to watch any new videos they release and read any blogs until May 15th at the earliest.

    I’m going to try and do the same because anything I see now just feels like torture.

    If I can get the game out of my head and focus on other things I think it will be healthier for me.

  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 17,223Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    edited February 13
    Posts deleted. Let's discuss the thread topic, not make personal comments about each other.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,334Registered Users

    While I am very disappointed in CA's delay, I'm still not sure what three extra months will do. CA announced this game in Jan 2018. They showed next to nothing until E3 showing a scripted battle of 20 minutes. That's it. It took them a couple more months to show the campaign map (when they should have shown this at the first announcement.) Then trailers came which is good and we got more videos of the campaign map etc.

    I'm happy that CA has certainly improved their marketing, but this is one of the worst marketing campaigns I have ever seen. Shogun 2 wasn't delayed.

    But that worries me - if RII was rushed out that day - clearly with no features being added in - then how will 3k fare any better? Are total war games big messy bug releases at launch?

    My question is, how will CA keep this game hyped? I mean keep it interested? You've already shown the campaign and battles - what else is apart from that? 3k doesn't have a unique multiplayer section - where Avatar conquest would be an excellent feature for a game with a romance mode.

    Show videos of battle environments or something.

    If Angry Joe has the copy of the game and can play this game for three months un-interrupted, why should we fans be neglected? Shouldn't we get a review copy as well to play away? Sure it may have bugs - but its better than having to wait another three months - although this idea wouldn't work realistically.

    CA - Improve the marketing and keep us interested. I love this period. And I am sure you do as well. So please, find a way. If you're going to cater for both fantasy/historical fans - and we have to find a way to unite China, then do it. Find a way.

    Look at Angry Joe's screenshot for one second. That's the entire game. I'm sorry to say the menu doesn't look great. What happened to the big old grand menu titles? Its just the faction lords, and that's it. Even 3k mod for Med 2 has a better screen selection here with much more information.

    You can make a web-series comic on youtube with scripted actors etc. I mean CA loves this period - the amount of devotion and dedication to making this game has to be praised.

    But please, when the game goes gold - Don't cut. I posted it in a thread about pre-ordering RII back in TWC in 2013, many fans told me the game had gotten gold. I realised the error of that.

    I want this game to be a massive success and smash all the negativity that currently resides around total war. So you'd better make this purchase worth it.

    Besides that, I'm not really sure what you can do.

    However you can do this:

    If you have the three streams - do MORE STREAMS UNTIL the RELEASE!

    Every Wednesday, from 3-4 - show the Cao Clan, show the Sun Jian Clan, etc. I mean there's no harm in doing that is there? I'm fed up of not having to play the game. Already the developers have had so much fun playing this game by themselves, we fans also want something new.

    Also the text is too small to read. Please make it bigger.

    Custom battle? What else will we get from that? How many battle terrains, ambush battles we will fight?

    I'm sure the team at CA want this game released, and I too want the same. But CA, you better spend time making cinematic intros, or cinematic videos. I mean do it in the style of the Shogun 2 which clearly explained what was going on.

    Here you have too many elaborate videos not explaining what it is.

    What did Shogun 2 have?

    Ashikaga Shogunate ruled for 400 years. They became weak, the warlords broke off, and Japan is split into civil war.

    Why isn't 3k explained in these simple terms?

    Han Empire ruled for 400 years, they became weak, the warlords broke off, and China is in civil war.

    Simply market the game like this. The trailers do focus on this, but its not well explained.

    There better be faction intros for the warlords. It'll be disappointing to have that advisor explaining stuff - no. I loved Shogun 2 because of the unique faction intros each clan had.

    Bear in mind that you can make 3k better by giving the splash of Shogun 2 colours. I mean Sengoku Jidhai was a colourful battlefield, and you can make the Cao Clan have different colours say than the Liu Bei clan, etc.

    I don't want this game being delayed for ever and forever. If it does then this is not good. How many bugs are in this game already? I read the blog post about the developer saying they're going into pre-production and the campaign map looks gorgeous, and the battlefields look great.

    So why delay now? You've had an entire year to fix bugs. Bugs like this should be present in the old versions, not the new one.

    It didn't take long for TOB to release either.

    What else are they going to show now tbh? They better give an incentive by saying we will introduce Cathay into Warhammer 3. (For those that say its not related, well it is. Three Kingdoms is the first title set in Asia apart from Japan, and its China. The modding community made some fantastic mods with Med 2 over China etc. 3K becomes a success encouraging CA to make more DLC - I bet you they will get attracted to Cathay very simply. Because now they have the asssets/models to make a fantasy China faction - it will happen. Cathay is literally the romance mode faction of 3k. Duels, warriors/dragons - etc. So many fans saying the Romance mode carries too many Warhammer influences, it will do the same here.)

    So CA's blog of how they will keep us interested is too vague - do continuous streams. I WANT THIS EXCELLENT GAME!

    I disagree of course that hype should be encouraged or used by a developer, but this is an excellent post. The suggestions are not wishy-washy vagueness, but specifics with reasoning that both takes in the context of the other games which 3K will inevitably be compared to and the gaping holes of 3K's design as far as has been made public.

    These suggestions are mainly about aesthetics rather than mechanics like most, but aesthetics are a huge factor for what is a highly-visual medium. They matter a lot. Aesthetics give a game it's grounding and having to make considerations for them in development can sometimes even lead a developer to realising when mechanics don't make sense(like a spear-wall causing -100% missile block chance for no reason other than fuzzy balancing, regardless of whether this would be the case in reality). People complained about wall-climbing in Shogun 2, but it becomes easier to accept when you are shown in a cutscene *how* it could be done. It glues implausible things together whilst exposing the outright ridiculous as not feasible and therefore immersion-breaking.
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