The Future of WH2 DLC (missing units)

SeanJeanquoi

[Disclaimer: I know that focusing on what isn’t there and ‘what doesn’t work well enough’ can often sound entitled and too negative. For me at least, it’s the exact opposite, the Warhammer games have truly captivated me since I got them mid last year and thinking about what might still be in store and thinking of ways to change it for the better is exciting for me, me as it gets me more engrossed in the lore that I knew nothing of before playing and it stimulates my creative side. So just to say, I love this game and I appreciate CA’s work and even hope they hear me out, as well as the rest of us so the game can grow.]

Since people are starting to say that Warhammer 2 is winding down now I really wanted to pour over what might need to be changed before before we migrate to WH3 and what content could still be in store for us.

In this thread in particular, I wanted to focus on all the units, lords and hero’s that have fallen by the wayside and slowly piled up since the first game came out; not yet added in updates or patches. I know this isn’t going to be the first thread of its kind or the last, but I’ve been doing some digging and tried to collect all that has yet to be added (within reason) that ideally will be before WH2 is done.

Currently CA has two kinds of DLC: the head to head lord packs and the new races. Neither of these will be able to patch all of the holes in the rosters that have accumulated - unless we have a million head to heads – so, I think CA could do us a solid by continuing to release free lords and units between DLC’s over time until it adds up. They likely won’t add all that’s missing that way so to ensure they’re happy and that we get the most missing stuff that we can: they could make the final DLC for the game a big expansion that adds in anything that is missed. it’d end up being the size of a race pack or two even and it’d be a good optional thing to throw in at the end since the game would already be a complete package anyway. A lot of the units I’ll list will come in other DLC packs like the upcoming ‘rat and the serpent’ so this is also a list of what they could include, I’m just saying that if all else fails I think a little payed pack on the tail end would be good.

They said once upon a time that they wanted to make sure that by the time they’re done, all main factions would have the same number of Legendary lords (excluding DLC factions who don’t really have any more) I’ve comprised a list of all that’s missing with the goal of every main faction having around 5 playable legendary lords by the end of it (as misguided an idea that may well be)

I’ve excluded the Empire and Chaos for now because we will be here all day if I didn’t and they will likely be saved for game three, only seeing patches and a little something here or there beforehand.

Dwarfs

Legendary Lord

Thorek Ironbrow (Runesmith)

Legendary Hero

Josef Bugman

Grimm Burlaksson (Master Engineer)

Malakai Makaisson (Slayer Master Engineer) he can complement a lot of the missing units of slayers and the airships and combined they could help really flesh out Karak Kadrin

Generic Hero

Daemon Slayers

Units

Goblin Hewer (made by Malakai Makaisson)
Doomseekers ( RoR )
Dragon Slayers
Ironclad Airship
Dwarf Thunderbarge

Greenskins

Legendary Lords

Gorbad Ironclaw

Grom the Paunch + Niblet

Generic lords

savage orc, black orc and night goblin variants of War Bosses

night goblin shaman

Generic Hero

big boss

Units

Big Stabba
River Trolls
Stone Trolls
Colossal Squig (forge world so maybe not)
Mangler Squigs
Snotling Pump Wagon
Gobblin Spear Chukkas

[ everything else is just misc weapon variants: dual axe, sword and shield, spears and so on for all the melee units which we don’t really need ]

Mount

Arachnarok Spider (Goblin Shaman)

Vampire counts

Blood Line Vampire Lords (New Unique Skins)

Lahmian Lady
Blood Knight Lord
Necharch Vampire Lord

Legendary Hero’s / Lords unlocked through the Bloodline mechanic (like the Norscan Eagle)

Neferata (Lahmian Bloodline Lord)

Ushoran (Strigoi Bloodline lord)

Abhorash (Blood Knight Bloodline Lord)

Walach Harkon (Blood Knight Bloodline Lord)

Melkhior the Ancient (Necharch bloodline lord)

Zacharias the Everliving (Necharch bloodline lord)

Konrad Von Carstein (Von Carstein bloodline lord)

Generic Hero

Cairn Wraith

Units

Spirit Host’s

Mounts

Coven Throne
Abyssal Terror

[ We don’t really need Most of this, all I’d really want would be the more distinct looks for the bloodlines ]

Bretonnia

[ Bretonnia has all their units implemented but they need much more love. There should be more unique characters, but which ones should be playable and which ones should be hero’s, I’m not sure, but I’ll take a stab at it ]

Playable Legendary Lords

Bohemond Beastslayer (Bastonne Faction)

Tancred due de Quenelles (Parravon Faction)

[ If they update Bretonnia they could add in the crusades and allow us to play them in the vortex campaign ]

Playable Legendary Lords (Vortex Campaign)

Odo d’Outremer

Sir John Tyreweld (Knights of Origo Faction)

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Repanse de Lyonesse
Chilfroy d’Artois (new Skin)

Legendary hero

Armand d’Aquitaine (Carcasonne)
Reynard de Shasser (Bretonnia under Louen)

Donna don Domingio (Knights of Origo Faction)

Units

Palisades for archers

Beastmen

Legendary Lords

Slugtounge

Ghorros Warhoof

Taurox The Brass Bull

Gorthor the Cruel (possibly)

Generic Lords

Doombull

Units

Preyton (Please!)
Ghorgon
Jabberslythe

Wood Elves

Legendary Lords

Ariel

Drycha

Sisters of Twilight (Naestra + Arahan)

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Araloth (Talsyn faction)
Naileth the Prophetess (Wydrioth Faction)

Generic lords

Spell Weaver

Legendary Hero

Scarloc

Generic Hero's

Glade Captain
Shadow Dancer

Mounts

Great Stag

Norsca

Legendary lords

Lord mordkin

Egil Stryrbjorn

Bjorn berastruck

Sarl the Faithless

[ I'm aware there are plenty more options for Norsca LL, I was just listing the ones that seemed most important to the faction and listed only 3 so we could get their lord count up to 5 like I stipulated at the beginning ]

Generic lords

Skin Wolf Warekin
Fimir Warrior/Shaman

High Elves

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Prince Imrik (Calador)

Princess Eldyra (Tiranoc)

Eltharion the Grim (Yvresse)

Belannaer the Wise (Saphery)

Generic Lord

Archmage

Anointed Assuryan (acts as a support lord, focusing on buffing the army)


Legendary Hero

Caradryan (Captain of the Phoenix guard, he’s a Lord Bodyguard)

Generic Hero

Dragon Mage

Sea Helm (pointless, just put them at the helm of the Sky cutters)

Units

Sky Cutter
White Lion Chariot


Mounts

Griffin Mount
Phoenix Mount (Fire and Ice)

Dark Elves

Legendary lords

Malus Darkblade

Tullaris Dreadbringer (Hero or leader of the scourge of Khaine)

Generic lords

Black Ark Fleet Master (just a new skin on black ark dread lords)

High Beast Masters (Lords for monster + Cold One heavy armies)

Legendary Hero

Shadowblade (master Assassin)

Kouran Blackhand (Captain of the Black Guard, another lord Bodyguard)

Hubris Rakarth (Beastmaster)


Units

Bloodwrack Medusae
Scourge runner Chariot (Beast Masters)

Lizardmen

Legendary Lords

Gor-Rok

Tehenhauin

Lord Kroak (maybe make him like old bess/the green knight, sure, but I really love kroak and I’d love to see him as a lord)

Legendary Hero

Tetto’Eko (Skink Oracle)

Chakax (best among the Temple Guard, he’s a lord bodyguard)

Nakai (Green Knight Type Character or Queen Bess esc rite summon)

Tiktaq’To (Leads a regiment of renown of teradon/razordactyl riders or a hero)

Oxyotl (could be a lord but seems like the same deal as shadowblade, hes a Legendary hero assassin)

Generic Hero

Skink Oracle (clashes with Slann Mage priests)

Units

Razordon
Salamander
Ryperdactyl Riders
Red Crested Skinks
Bastiladon (ark of Sotek)
Ancient Stegadon (Engine of the Gods)
Dread Sauras (forge world so maybe not)

Mounts

Trogladon

Skaven

Legendary Lord

Ikit Claw (Clan Stryre)

Thanquol (Gray seer) + Boneripper (Stormfiend mount)

Throt the Unclean (Clan Moulder)

Deathmaster Snikch (clan Eshin) it’d be good to have him as a lord but he could also be a master assassin Legendary hero for the Skaven.


Generic Lord

Chieftain (not needed)

Legendary Hero

Skweel Gnawtooth (Pack master)

Generic Hero

Master Moulder (Pack Master)

Units

Jazzels
Giant Rats
Wolf Rats (Forge World so maybe not)
Stormfiends
Doom Flayer
Rattling Gunners
Deathvermin (Clan Rictus)
Albino Stormvermin (Thanquol)
Poison Wind Mortar
Blightscap Plague Pack

Augmented/Mutant/Armoured Rat Ogres (I heard none of these are official? Or they were retconned, I’m not sure, but Moulder needs more unique stuff and these seem like a decent go to)
Warp Grinder (not Needed)


Mounts

Great Pox Rat
Brood Horror (forge world so maybe not)

Tomb kings

Legendary Lord

King Tutankhanut (Numas Faction)

Sehenesmet (a Bone Giant, Liche Priest)

Ramhotep the Visionary (could be a leader of a construct only faction. Possibly a horde faction as well but he might be unbalanced, and I don’t think we need him. He could also appear as a LH)


Legendary Hero

Prince Apophas (possible TK Master Assassin)

Tomb Herald Nekaph (another Lord Bodyguard, this time for Settra)

Generic Hero

Tomb Herald

Liche Priest (Loremasters of Hoeth for TK)


Units

Bone Giant (Melee)
Bestethi (giant Cats)

in total: 132 - 136 new units lords and hero’s


New DLC factions have added between 31 and 43 unique units lords and hero’s. among all that’s missing (which includes plenty of stuff with assets already in the game and a fair few things we don’t actually need to see and probably shouldn’t) this amounts to 3 times the number included in the vampire coast

We still have plenty of Free-LC and DLC packs coming between now and the end of the games cycle so if we widdle it down I'd imagine at the end we will have a factions worth of missing stuff (maybe 1.5 – 2 factions worth) so the DLC wouldn’t be a crazy undertaking and could cost about 20 Pounds/25 dollers which i think would be fair.

Arthas_Menethil

For Bretonnia maybe a Foot Squires unit that actually goes sword and board instead of two hander?

davedave1124

Preyton.. I wouldn't say no..

Arthas_Menethil

Went over the Norscan lords and there's an issue with Egil Styrbjorn in the sense that he conflicts with the Race Mechanic as he is a champion of Khorne.

SeanJeanquoi

@ Arthasmenethril I was trying to get norsca up to 5 and they have more than enough lords to fill those missing slots, the issue is as you say: most of them are aligned to one god or the other or they are closer to chaos than Norsca itself. I dont think this means we shouldn't add at least one of them and it could be fleshed out in game 3. they have added lords with less justification...

Ol_Nessie

Are you sure you've got the Dwarf characters in the right categories? Thorek Ironbrow was a Lord character while Bugman was a Hero; if we do get 1 more LL for the Dwarfs it should be Thorek. Daemon Slayers also weren't units, they were Lord characters and they'd make a better TW Hero/Agent character than the Dragon Slayer.

Sadly, CA has also pretty much confirmed that they have no intention of doing LHs since for all the work involved in making a unique character, the payoff is best when they're implemented as a LL.

As far as the Dwarf units you suggested, the best opportunity for them to come was with the Karak Kadrin themed Resurgent update. I'm also not sure if there would be an appreciable difference, if there is a difference at all, between an Ironclad airship and a Thunderbarge.

HeresyHound

SeanJeanquoi said:

@ Arthasmenethril I was trying to get norsca up to 5 and they have more than enough lords to fill those missing slots, the issue is as you say: most of them are aligned to one god or the other or they are closer to chaos than Norsca itself. I dont think this means we shouldn't add at least one of them and it could be fleshed out in game 3. they have added lords with less justification...

We can get at least 4 non-aligned LLs:
Bjorn Bearstruck
Sayl the Faithless( who is kinda the perfect choice since they have no caster lord)

And Surtha Ek just to divide the community for fun.

eomat

No Ghorros Warhoof for Beastmen....? I’d rather have him than any other. A quick Beastmen LL that gives bonuses to Centigors would be awesome.

Eltharion the Grim on Stormwing VS Grom the Paunch? Yes please!

Arthas_Menethil

FungusHound said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

@ Arthasmenethril I was trying to get norsca up to 5 and they have more than enough lords to fill those missing slots, the issue is as you say: most of them are aligned to one god or the other or they are closer to chaos than Norsca itself. I dont think this means we shouldn't add at least one of them and it could be fleshed out in game 3. they have added lords with less justification...

We can get at least 4 non-aligned LLs:
Bjorn Bearstruck
Sayl the Faithless( who is kinda the perfect choice since they have no caster lord)

And Surtha Ek just to divide the community for fun.

Skycutter mount for the Great lord Surtha Ek!
He should get a Chariot drawn by Mammoths though to be a bit more serious

Ol_Nessie

FungusHound said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

@ Arthasmenethril I was trying to get norsca up to 5 and they have more than enough lords to fill those missing slots, the issue is as you say: most of them are aligned to one god or the other or they are closer to chaos than Norsca itself. I dont think this means we shouldn't add at least one of them and it could be fleshed out in game 3. they have added lords with less justification...

We can get at least 4 non-aligned LLs:
Bjorn Bearstruck
Sayl the Faithless( who is kinda the perfect choice since they have no caster lord)

And Surtha Ek just to divide the community for fun.

There could be a problem with Sayl the Faithless in that he's a Kurgan, not a Norscan. It'd be cool to have Beorg Bearstruck though, but I'm not sure how they'd implement his transformation ability. Maybe he'd just permanently be in Bear-form.

SeanJeanquoi

@OI_Nessie I thought Thorek Ironbrow was ruled over by Kazador Thunderhorn, you are right though. I also was under the impression that the Dragon slayers were a higher tier of slayer than the Daemon slayers. my mistake, they should be switched. neither is a 'unit' as they work alone but for the sake of fleshing out the roster i think we could do with an extra slayer unit aside from doomseekers who seem like a RoR and, short of making something up, using one of these guys makes sense to me.

SeanJeanquoi

@FungusHound I'm aware of Surtha Ek and I've heard of saythl the faithless before. for me my list on the Norscan lords just came down to who i heard mentioned more and who seemed more important to the faction in the lore. i didnt want to rattle off all the possible entries because the list would become very bloated and seem more unreasonable as a request for CA to include them all

Arthas_Menethil

Daemon Slayers however suffer from the Slayer Cult rule since only Ungrim is allowed to be a Slayer General (Ungrims version of the rule is "Slayer King"). Which makes sense since Slayers are meant to looking for death which would be terrible for a general.

Crossil

SeanJeanquoi said:

@ Arthasmenethril I was trying to get norsca up to 5 and they have more than enough lords to fill those missing slots, the issue is as you say: most of them are aligned to one god or the other or they are closer to chaos than Norsca itself. I dont think this means we shouldn't add at least one of them and it could be fleshed out in game 3. they have added lords with less justification...

The Everchariot gives you 2 options. You either come aboard or get run over by his chariot horde. Simple choice really.

Gollummyprecious

SeanJeanquoi said:

[Disclaimer: I know that focusing on what isn’t there and ‘what doesn’t work well enough’ can often sound entitled and too negative. For me at least, it’s the exact opposite, the Warhammer games have truly captivated me since I got them mid last year and thinking about what might still be in store, ways to change it for the better is exciting for me, me as it gets me more engrossed in the lore that I knew nothing of before playing and it stimulates my creative side. So just to say, I love this game and I appreciate CA’s work and even hope they hear me out, as well as the rest of us so the game can grow.]

Since people are starting to say that Warhammer 2 is winding down now I really wanted to pour over what might need to be changed before before we migrate to WH3 and what content could still be in store for us.

In this thread in particular, I wanted to focus on all the units, lords and hero’s that have fallen by the wayside and slowly piled up since the first game came out; not yet added in updates or patches. I know this isn’t going to be the first thread of its kind or the last, but I’ve been doing some digging and tried to collect all that has yet to be added (within reason) that ideally will be before WH2 is done.

Currently CA has two kinds of DLC: the head to head lord packs and the new races. Neither of these will be able to patch all of the holes in the rosters that have accumulated - unless we have a million head to heads – so, I think CA could do us a solid by continuing to release free lords and units between DLC’s over time until it adds up. They likely won’t add all that’s missing that way so to ensure they’re happy and that we get the most missing stuff that we can: they could make the final DLC for the game a big expansion that adds in anything that is missed. it’d end up being the size of a race pack or two even and it’d be a good optional thing to throw in at the end since the game would already be a complete package anyway. A lot of the units I’ll list will come in other DLC packs like the upcoming ‘rat and the serpent’ so this is also a list of what they could include, I’m just saying that if all else fails I think a little payed pack on the tail end would be good.

They said once upon a time that they wanted to make sure that by the time they’re done, all main factions would have the same number of Legendary lords (excluding DLC factions who don’t really have any more) I’ve comprised a list of all that’s missing with the goal of every main faction having around 5 playable legendary lords by the end of it (as misguided an idea that may well be)

I’ve excluded the Empire and Chaos for now because we will be here all day if I didn’t and they will likely be saved for game three, only seeing patches and a little something here or there beforehand.

Dwarfs

Legendary Lord

Thorek Ironbrow (Runesmith)

Legendary Hero

Josef Bugman

Grimm Burlaksson (Master Engineer)

Malakai Makaisson (Slayer Master Engineer) he can complement a lot of the missing units of slayers and the airships and combined they could flesh out Karak Kadrin

Generic Hero

Daemon Slayers

Units

Goblin Hewer (made by Malakai Makaisson)
Doomseekers
Dragon Slayers
Ironclad Airship
Dwarf Thunderbarge

Greenskins

Legendary Lords

Gorbad Ironclaw

Grom the Paunch + Niblet

Generic lords

savage orc, black orc and night goblin variants of War Bosses

night goblin shaman

Generic Hero

big boss

Units

Big Stabba
River Trolls
Stone Trolls
Colossal Squig (forge world so maybe not)
Mangler Squigs
Snotling Pump Wagon
Gobblin Spear Chukkas

[ everything else is just misc weapon variants (dual axe, sword and shield, spears and so on for all the melee units which we don’t really need ]

Mount

Arachnarok Spider (Goblin Shaman)

Vampire counts

Blood Line Vampire Lords (New Unique Skins)

Lahmian Lady
Blood Knight Lord
Necharch Vampire Lord

Legendary Hero’s / Lords unlocked through the Bloodline mechanic (like the Norscan Eagle)

Neferata (Lahmian Lord)

Abhorash (Blood Knight Lord)

Walach Harkon (Blood Knight Lord)

Melchior (Necharch Vampire lord)

Zacharias the Everliving (Necharch Vampire lord)

Konrad Von Carstein (Von Carstein blood line lord)

Generic Hero

Cairn Wraith

Units

Spirit Host’s

Mounts

Coven Throne
Abyssal Terror

[ We don’t really need Most of this, all I’d really want would be the more distinct looks for the bloodlines ]

Bretonnia

[ Bretonnia has all their units implemented but they need much more love. There should be more unique characters, but which ones should be playable and which ones should be hero’s, I’m not sure, but I’ll take a stab at it ]

Playable Legendary Lords

Bohemond Beastslayer (Bastonne Faction)

Tancred due de Quenelles (Paravon Faction)

[ If they update Bretonnia they could add in the crusades and allow us to play them in the vortex campaign ]

Playable Legendary Lords (Vortex Campaign)

Odo d’Outremer

Sir John Tyreweld (Knights of Origo Faction)

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Repanse de Lyonesse
Chilfroy d’Artois (new Skin)

Legendary hero

Armand d’Aquitaine (Carcasonne)
Reynard de Shasser (Bretonnia under Louen)

Donna don Domingio (Knights of Origo Faction)

Units

Palisades for archers

Beastmen

Legendary Lords

Slugtounge

Ghorros Warhoof

Taurox The Brass Bull

Gorthor the Cruel (possibly)

Generic Lords

Doombull

Units

Preyton (Please!)
Ghorgon
Jabberslythe

Wood Elves

Legendary Lords

Ariel

Drycha

Sisters of Twilight (Naestra + Arahan)

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Araloth (Talsyn faction)
Naileth the Prophetess (Wydrioth Faction)

Generic lords

Spell Weaver

Legendary Hero

Scarloc

Generic Hero's

Glade Captain
Shadow Dancer

Mounts

Great Stag

Norsca

Legendary lords

Lord mordkin

Egil Stryrbjorn

Bjorn berastruck

Generic lords

Skin Wolf Warekin
Fimir Warrior/Shaman

High Elves

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Prince Imrik (Calador)

Eltharion the Grim (Yvresse)

Belannaer the Wise (Saphery)

Generic Lord

Archmage

Anointed Assuryan (not much point, basically a lord noble, I think an anointed legendary hero would be better)


Legendary Hero

Caradryan (Captain of the Phoenix guard, he’s a Lord Bodyguard)

Generic Hero

Dragon Mage

Sea Helm (pointless, just put them at the helm of the Sky cutters)

Units

Sky Cutter
White Lion Chariot


Mounts

Griffin Mount
Phoenix Mount (Fire and Ice)

Dark Elves

Legendary lords

Malus Darkblade

Tullaris Dreadbringer (Hero or leader of the scourge of Khaine)

Generic lords

Black Ark Fleet Master (just a new skin on black ark dread lords)

High Beast Masters (Lords for monster + Cold One heavy armies)

Legendary Hero

Shadowblade (master Assassin)

Kouran Blackhand (Captain of the Black Guard, another lord Bodyguard)

Hubris Rakarth (Beastmaster)


Units

Bloodwrack Medusae
Scourge runner Chariot (Beast Masters)

Lizardmen

Legendary Lords

Gor-Rok

Techenhuan

Lord Kroak (maybe make him like old bess/the green knight, sure, but I really love kroak and I’d love to see him as a lord)

Legendary Hero

Tetto’Eko (Skink Oracle)

Chakax (best among the Temple Guard, he’s a lord bodyguard)

Nakai (Green Knight Type Character or Queen Bess esc rite summon)

Tiktaq’To (Leads a regiment of renown of teradon/razordactyl riders or a hero)

Oxyotl (could be a lord but seems like the same deal as shadowblade, hes a Legendary hero assassin)

Generic Hero

Skink Oracle (clashes with Slann Mage priests)

Units

Razordon
Salamander
Ryperdactyl Riders
Red Crested Skinks
Bastiladon (ark of Sotek)
Ancient Stegadon (Engine of the Gods)
Dread Sauras (forge world so maybe not)

Mounts

Trogladon

Skaven

Legendary Lord

Ikit Claw (Clan Stryre)

Thanquol (Gray seer) + Boneripper (Stormfiend mount)

Throt the Unclean (Clan Moulder)

Deathmaster Snikch (clan Eshin) it’d be good to have him as a lord but he could also be a master assassin Legendary hero for the Skaven.


Generic Lord

Chieftain (not needed)

Legendary Hero

Skweel Gnawtooth (Pack master)

Generic Hero

Master Moulder (Pack Master)

Units

Jazzels
Giant Rats
Wolf Rats (Forge World so maybe not)
Stormfiends
Doom Flayer
Rattling Gunners
Deathvermin (Clan Rictus)
Albino Stormvermin (Thanquol)
Poison Wind Mortar
Blightscap Plague Pack

Augmented/Mutant/Armoured Rat Ogres (I heard none of these are official? Or they were retconned, I’m not sure, but Moulder needs more unique stuff and these seem like a decent go to)
Warp Grinder (not Needed)


Mounts

Great Pox Rat
Brood Horror (forge world so maybe not)

Tomb kings

Legendary Lord

King Tutankhanut (Numas Faction)

Ramhotep the Visionary (could be a leader of a construct only faction. Possibly a horde faction as well but he might be unbalanced, and I don’t think we need him. He could also appear as a LH)


Legendary Hero

Tomb Herald Nekaph (another Lord Bodyguard, this time for Settra)

Generic Hero

Tomb Herald
Liche Priest (Loremasters of Hoeth for TK)


Units

Bone Giant (Melee)
Bestethi (giant Cats)

in total: 132 - 136 new units lords and hero’s


New DLC factions have added between 31 and 43 unique units lords and hero’s. among all that’s missing (which includes plenty of stuff with assets already in the game and a fair few things we don’t actually need to see and probably shouldn’t) this amounts to 3 times the number included in the vampire coast

We still have plenty of Free-LC and DLC packs coming between now and the end of the games cycle so if we widdle it down I'd imagine at the end we will have a factions worth of missing stuff (maybe 1.5 – 2 factions worth) so the DLC wouldn’t be a crazy undertaking and could cost about 20 Pounds/25 dollers which i think would be fair.

You forgot one of Norsca's famous and oldest warrior, Harald Hammerstorm, or Harry the Hammer, an anti undead norsca lord

SeanJeanquoi

@eomat I've added him now, i only didnt initially for the same reason as norsa: i wanted to reach the goal of 5 lords with the most important/relevant characters possible. his inclusion was a coin toss between him and Gorthor the Cruel for me (who, despite being dead, is far more famous and important to the Beastmen).

Ol_Nessie

SeanJeanquoi said:

@OI_Nessie I thought Thorek Ironbrow was ruled over by Kazador Thunderhorn, you are right though. I also was under the impression that the Dragon slayers were a higher tier of slayer than the Daemon slayers. my mistake, they should be switched. neither is a 'unit' as they work alone but for the sake of fleshing out the roster i think we could do with an extra slayer unit aside from doomseekers who seem like a RoR and, short of making something up, using one of these guys makes sense to me.

He is, but that doesn't mean he can't still be a Lord though. The difference between a Lord on TT and a Lord in TW is actually quite significant. I'd be thrilled if we got both Kazador and Thorek, but between the two, Thorek offers more in terms of variety and playstyle. Also, it's not like we haven't already had characters who aren't faction leaders in lore take over a faction in TW.

In terms of Slayer units, I'd say nearly every option left would be more appropriate as an RoR; Goblin-Hewer, Long Drong's Slayers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, etc. I really don't think Slayers should be all that varied in terms of generic units. They're simply one facet of a much larger identity. I still want my Slayer Hero though.

SeanJeanquoi

@OI_Nessie I've swapped around what you said to swap around. They are part of a larger identity yes but I see a great opportunity here to buff a faction that already exists without much effort on CA's part which makes it likely. I don't really want a lot of the units that I've listed to be RoR because then they aren't a main utility Karak Kadrin or Clan Rictus or whoever it is. making them normal units and not RoR means you could have a more distinct army composition for these sub factions, rather than giving them a little extra unit off to the side.

Ol_Nessie

SeanJeanquoi said:

@OI_Nessie I've swapped around what you said to swap around. They are part of a larger identity yes but I see a great opportunity here to buff a faction that already exists with not much effort on CA's part which makes it likely. I don't really want a lot of the units that O've listed to be RoR because then they arent a main utility Karak Kadrin or Clan Rictus or whoever it is. making them normal units and not RoR means you could have a more destinct army composition for these sub factions, rather than giving them a little extra unit off to the side.

I get that, but some of those units are RoRs by definition. Only one formation exists of each and it'd be a bit immersion breaking to be able to replicate those units ad infinitum.

I think by virtue of Ungrim's faction/Lord effects and skills, he already has a more distinct army composition by the sheer virtue of having more than one or two Slayer units in his army. The army of Karak Kadrin in the lore isn't solely composed of Slayers. It has a higher proportion of Slayers compared to any other hold, but there's certainly good representation from the other parts of the Dwarf roster.

I know this might be Grudge-worthy of a Dwarf fan to say but, outside of Thorek and a Slayer Hero, there's not much more that I think is really needed for the Dwarf roster to be complete, especially with some other races as threadbare as they are.

SeanJeanquoi

OI_Nessie I get what you're saying and yes I know that they don't need a lot of what's in the list to be 'complete' as I said just before my list: I think a lot of this could be extras added on near the end of the games cycle or sneaked in between larger DLC's just to add a bit more flavour and check some missing items off the list, the game without them would and kind of is already 'complete' aside from some lords for the Lizardmen and some units for the Skaven.

Goatforce

Wow, lots of effort in this! Well done! A few suggestions, you seem to have missed the Verminlord (unless I missed it), Apophas is another possible LL for TKs (an assasin like character made of Scarabs), and for a possible unaligned Norsca LL there is also Sarl the Faithless - who would fill a caster role, which is not occupied atm - and there was some speculation (I may have been amongst the overexcited) that he was on the boxart for the Dark Gods Edition of WH 1 (it did look a lot like him on the mammoth).

But god I hope we get a lot more LPs to make the roster look more like this, I mean I can take or leave the Legendary Heroes personally (would rather have them of course but units and Lords seem more important), but complete unit rosters and 4+ LLs (I would be very happy with 3 in the case of Norsca though) each would be the dream!

Edit: for WoC I would love it if we got A LP with:

Valkia and Festus (or Tamhurkan) - and Van Horstman as FLC
Marked warriors
Slaughterbrute and/or Vortex Beast
Chaos Warshrine
perhaps Chimera (would be similar to manticore but with breath attack)
and an ascention mechanic adding the ability to turn Lords into Daemon Princes

Whilst this wouldn't cover everything it would give the faction a lot more flavour, adding in chaos gods as a tangible part of gameplay (perhaps generic lords could dedicate themselves individually, in the same way the Norscan factions can, to earn favour and Daemonhood), and more to play with in general for the faction which is a little monotone atm. This is probably a lot for a LP and might be controversial but I know I would shell out for it, probably as much as the Race Pack itself costs or even more for this!

SeanJeanquoi

@Goatforce Thanks, I've been looking into this for a few days now. The Verminlord seems more like a game 3 unit which is why i didn't include it.

Apophas is kind of cool, but as far as I know he doesn't have any land, hes not really a lord and he only works for himself. I could be wrong but based on what I read about him, he murdered most of the nobility in his kingdom, even his king, back when the tomb kings were still human. e only exists now to offer up souls to the lord of the underworld in place of his own so he can keep living. he could work like a TK master assassin I guess, but his allegiance is to himself.

I've added Sarl now since he keeps getting mentioned, I didn't know he was a caster which makes him a more needed inclusion gameplay wise than Egil or the other meatheads, thanks

I don't think its likely Norsca will get 5 LL which is why i initially didn't include many for them in my list but yeah, if we see even half of what I've listed i will be so happy ^_^

Wyvax

Sehenesmet, a 6th edition character for TK. He's a high liche priest that fused his soul to a bone giant!!!

One thing to note, a lot of Legendary Heroes would make ideal secondary lords for certain factions. Think of Ghorst and Isabella as an example.

Goatforce

SeanJeanquoi said:

@Goatforce Thanks, I've been looking into it for a few days now. The Verminlord seems more like a game 3 unit which is why i didn't include it.

Apophas is kind of cool, but as far as I know he doesn't have any land, hes not really a lord and he only works for himself. I could be wrong but based on what I read about him, he murdered most of the nobility in his kingdom, even his king, back when the tomb kings were still human. e only exists now to offer up souls to the lord of the underworld in place of his own so he can keep living. he could work like a TK master assassin I guess, but his allegiance is to himself.

I've added Sarl now since he keeps getting mentioned, I didn't know he was a caster which makes him a more needed inclusion gameplay wise than Egil or the other meatheads, thanks

I don't think its likely Norsca will get 5 LL which is why i initially didn't include many for them in my list but yeah, if we see even half of what I've listed i will be so happy ^_^

Haha, yeah I am ready to drop so much money on this game, and CA refuses to give me reason to give it to them!

Perhaps Apophas could fit well into the Legendary Hero catagory, though CA could handwave a "he collared some lich priest to build an army and retake his rightful kingdom (and work on his curse)" sorta thing, but I think he could burst into scarabs and reform elsewhere and stuff which would be interesting for gameplay. I would quite like to see him, possibly because he is the most "The Mummy" Imhotep style characters imo.

I guess daemons are going to be big in game 3, but unless there are going to be cross game LPs (please CA) I can't see a unit that will take that much effort being added any other time than the next LP - and not having such a big flashy unit would, to me, be a bit of a tragedy.

SeanJeanquoi

Wyvax said:

Sehenesmet, a 6th edition character for TK. He's a high liche priest that fused his soul to a bone giant!!!

One thing to note, a lot of Legendary Heroes would make ideal secondary lords for certain factions. Think of Ghorst and Isabella as an example.

@Wyvax wow haha, literally couldn't have asked for a better lord for the TK since they could add the Liche Priests and the Melee Bone Giants at the same time, hes going in the list.

Yes LH would work well as LL but there are so many of them that i think adding LH's as a thing is well justified. if I piled them all into the legendary lords list i worry that it would seem to bloated and unreasonable. Plus, some smaller factions dont actually have enough factions to justify all of these lords and heroes (in ME the wood elves only have 2 factions to spear at the moment). by having the list this way we can also better identify their roles in the lore and game.

FinishingLast

Wyvax said:

Sehenesmet, a 6th edition character for TK. He's a high liche priest that fused his soul to a bone giant!!!

One thing to note, a lot of Legendary Heroes would make ideal secondary lords for certain factions. Think of Ghorst and Isabella as an example.

Since CA is reluctant to make legendary heroes because of the effort that goes into them and preferring to make them full LLs, I think this is the best option. Make them LL, but they don't have their own faction and instead are under their parent LL like the examples you gave. This way, we get those heroes in the game, but they are still full LLs which are more cost effective.

Wyvax

FinishingLast said:

Wyvax said:

Sehenesmet, a 6th edition character for TK. He's a high liche priest that fused his soul to a bone giant!!!

One thing to note, a lot of Legendary Heroes would make ideal secondary lords for certain factions. Think of Ghorst and Isabella as an example.

Since CA is reluctant to make legendary heroes because of the effort that goes into them and preferring to make them full LLs, I think this is the best option. Make them LL, but they don't have their own faction and instead are under their parent LL like the examples you gave. This way, we get those heroes in the game, but they are still full LLs which are more cost effective.

At least one I could think of wouldn't even require hiring voice talent, Caradryan. Having the captain of the Phoenix Guard would make Lothern Campaigns so much more interesting to me. Besides certain factions in the game are big or influential enough to warrant 2 or more LLs. Off the top of my head, Reikland, Middenland, Karaz-a-Karak, Karak Kadrin, Karak Azul, Mousillon, Talsyn, Argwylon, Lothern, Naggarond, Har Ganeth, Hexoatl, Last Defenders, Clan Moulder, Khemri, Followers of Nagash and the Dreadfleet. There's at least one character per each of those factions that either lorefully belongs there or at least has fluffy reasons to connect them. Conversely WoC and Beastmen, while needing more LLs definitely ought to be split into several distinct factions. Yes, I've thought to much about this.

SeanJeanquoi

Wyvax said:

FinishingLast said:

Wyvax said:

Sehenesmet, a 6th edition character for TK. He's a high liche priest that fused his soul to a bone giant!!!

One thing to note, a lot of Legendary Heroes would make ideal secondary lords for certain factions. Think of Ghorst and Isabella as an example.

Since CA is reluctant to make legendary heroes because of the effort that goes into them and preferring to make them full LLs, I think this is the best option. Make them LL, but they don't have their own faction and instead are under their parent LL like the examples you gave. This way, we get those heroes in the game, but they are still full LLs which are more cost effective.

At least one I could think of wouldn't even require hiring voice talent, Caradryan. Having the captain of the Phoenix Guard would make Lothern Campaigns so much more interesting to me. Besides certain factions in the game are big or influential enough to warrant 2 or more LLs. Off the top of my head, Reikland, Middenland, Karaz-a-Karak, Karak Kadrin, Karak Azul, Mousillon, Talsyn, Argwylon, Lothern, Naggarond, Har Ganeth, Hexoatl, Last Defenders, Clan Moulder, Khemri, Followers of Nagash and the Dreadfleet. There's at least one character per each of those factions that either lorefully belongs there or at least has fluffy reasons to connect them. Conversely WoC and Beastmen, while needing more LLs definitely ought to be split into several distinct factions. Yes, I've thought to much about this.

Mixu's LL mod (the second one) adds in Caradryan and you can choose whether hes a lord or a hero. I know it'd be better to see him in an official capacity but just letting you know.

Wyvax

SeanJeanquoi said:

Wyvax said:

FinishingLast said:

Wyvax said:

Sehenesmet, a 6th edition character for TK. He's a high liche priest that fused his soul to a bone giant!!!

One thing to note, a lot of Legendary Heroes would make ideal secondary lords for certain factions. Think of Ghorst and Isabella as an example.

Since CA is reluctant to make legendary heroes because of the effort that goes into them and preferring to make them full LLs, I think this is the best option. Make them LL, but they don't have their own faction and instead are under their parent LL like the examples you gave. This way, we get those heroes in the game, but they are still full LLs which are more cost effective.

At least one I could think of wouldn't even require hiring voice talent, Caradryan. Having the captain of the Phoenix Guard would make Lothern Campaigns so much more interesting to me. Besides certain factions in the game are big or influential enough to warrant 2 or more LLs. Off the top of my head, Reikland, Middenland, Karaz-a-Karak, Karak Kadrin, Karak Azul, Mousillon, Talsyn, Argwylon, Lothern, Naggarond, Har Ganeth, Hexoatl, Last Defenders, Clan Moulder, Khemri, Followers of Nagash and the Dreadfleet. There's at least one character per each of those factions that either lorefully belongs there or at least has fluffy reasons to connect them. Conversely WoC and Beastmen, while needing more LLs definitely ought to be split into several distinct factions. Yes, I've thought to much about this.

Mixu's LL mod (the second one) adds in Caradryan and you can choose whether hes a lord or a hero. I know it'd be better to see him in an official capacity but just letting you know.

I'm familiar, it's a great mod but I mostly limit my mods to graphical, bug and UI fixes and slight mechanic enhancements, I don't want to sour vanilla for myself. (Though I do like me some Dancing Savage Orcs and Stormvermin Bonebreakers!)

Draxynnic

(insert obligatory comment here that whatever the bandwagon brigade says, the Oracle on Trog is a unit, not a character and character mount)

Prior to Q&C, when it seemed that CA was just not doing spellcaster lords for the Elves, I was advocating for the Annointed as an additional generic lord for the High Elves. You call it "just a lord noble", but it really isn't despite being armed with a halberd: Annointed, on the tabletop, are marked by the bonuses they give to their unit (at least on foot), and I could see the Annointed behaving similar to Arch-Lectors, being a Lord focused more on granting defensive buffs to allies within their aura over personal fighting ability.

You're also getting Caradryan and Korhil mixed up. The Phoenix Guard, despite the name, are not bodyguards - that's the White Lions, of whom Korhil is the captain. Probably the most suitable way to implement Caradryan would probably be to implement the Annointed, and then have Caradryan being a special Annointed that could be picked up at a high Influence cost.

(As much as I like them, Imrik and Belannaer could probably be given similar treatment.)

Pocman

Dwarfs

Legendary Lord

Thorek Ironbrow (Runesmith)

Legendary Hero

Josef Bugman

Grimm Burlaksson (Master Engineer)

Malakai Makaisson (Slayer Master Engineer) he can complement a lot of the missing units of slayers and the airships and combined they could flesh out Karak Kadrin

King Kazador

Generic Hero

Daemon Slayers

Units

Goblin Hewer (made by Malakai Makaisson)
Doomseekers ( RoR )
Dragon Slayers
Ironclad Airship
Dwarf Thunderbarge

Greenskins

Legendary Lords

Gorfang Rotgut

Generic lords

savage orc, black orc and night goblin variants of War Bosses

night goblin shaman

Generic Hero

big boss

Units

Big Stabba
River Trolls
Stone Trolls
Colossal Squig (forge world so maybe not)
Mangler Squigs
Snotling Pump Wagon
Gobblin Spear Chukkas

[ everything else is just misc weapon variants (dual axe, sword and shield, spears and so on for all the melee units which we don’t really need ]

Mount

Arachnarok Spider (Goblin Shaman) both variants

Vampire counts

Blood Line Vampire Lords (New Unique Skins)

Lahmian Lady
Blood Knight Lord
Necharch Vampire Lord

No more LLs for VCs. Some of them could go in a nagash faction in WH3

Generic Hero

Cairn Wraith

Units

Spirit Host’s

Mounts

Coven Throne
Abyssal Terror

[ We don’t really need Most of this, all I’d really want would be the more distinct looks for the bloodlines ]

Bretonnia

[ Bretonnia has all their units implemented but they need much more love. There should be more unique characters, but which ones should be playable and which ones should be hero’s, I’m not sure, but I’ll take a stab at it ]

Playable Legendary Lords

Bohemond Beastslayer (Bastonne Faction)

Tancred due de Quenelles (Paravon Faction)

[ If they update Bretonnia they could add in the crusades and allow us to play them in the vortex campaign ]

Playable Legendary Lords (Vortex Campaign)

Odo d’Outremer

Sir John Tyreweld (Knights of Origo Faction)

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)


Chilfroy d’Artois (new Skin)

Legendary hero

Armand d’Aquitaine (Carcasonne)
Reynard de Shasser (Bretonnia under Louen)

Donna don Domingio (Knights of Origo Faction)

Units

Palisades for archers

Beastmen

Legendary Lords

Slugtounge

Ghorros Warhoof

Taurox The Brass Bull

Ungrol Four-Horn

Generic Lords

Doombull

Units

Preyton (Please!)
Ghorgon
Jabberslythe

Wood Elves

Legendary Lords

Ariel

Drycha

Sisters of Twilight (Naestra + Arahan)

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Araloth (Talsyn faction)
Naileth the Prophetess (Wydrioth Faction)

Generic lords

Spell Weaver

Legendary Hero

Scarloc

Generic Hero's

Glade Captain
Shadow Dancer


Mounts

Great Stag

Units

Arrow variants
Oak dryads
Wild Hunters

Norsca

Legendary lords

Lord Mortkin


Bjorn berastruck

Sarl the Faithless

[ I'm aware there are plenty more options for Norsca LL, I was just listing the ones that seemed most important to the faction and listed only 3 so we could get their lord count up to 5 like I stipulated at the beginning ]

Generic lords

Shaman of the tribes
Fimir Noble

High Elves

Non-Playable Lords (Attain via confederate)

Prince Imrik (Calador)

Eltharion the Grim (Yvresse)

Belannaer the Wise (Saphery)

Generic Lord

Archmage

Anointed Assuryan (not much point, basically a lord noble, I think an anointed legendary hero would be better)


Legendary Hero

Caradryan (Captain of the Phoenix guard, he’s a Lord Bodyguard)

Generic Hero

Dragon Mage

Sea Helm (pointless, just put them at the helm of the Sky cutters)

Units

Sky Cutter
White Lion Chariot

High Elf shortspearmen/swordman

Mounts

Griffin Mount
Phoenix Mount (Fire and Ice)

Dark Elves

Legendary lords

Malus Darkblade

Tullaris Dreadbringer (Hero or leader of the scourge of Khaine)

Generic lords

Black Ark Fleet Master (just a new skin on black ark dread lords)

High Beast Masters (Lords for monster + Cold One heavy armies)

Legendary Hero

Shadowblade (master Assassin)

Kouran Blackhand (Captain of the Black Guard, another lord Bodyguard)

Hubris Rakarth (Beastmaster)


Units

Bloodwrack Medusae

Scourge runner Chariot (Beast Masters)

Lizardmen

Legendary Lords

Gor-Rok

Techenhuan

Lord Kroak (maybe make him like old bess/the green knight, sure, but I really love kroak and I’d love to see him as a lord)

Legendary Hero

Tetto’Eko (Skink Oracle)

Chakax (best among the Temple Guard, he’s a lord bodyguard)

Nakai (Green Knight Type Character or Queen Bess esc rite summon)

Tiktaq’To (Leads a regiment of renown of teradon/razordactyl riders or a hero)

Oxyotl (could be a lord but seems like the same deal as shadowblade, hes a Legendary hero assassin)

Generic Hero

Skink Oracle (clashes with Slann Mage priests)

Units

Razordon
Salamander
Ryperdactyl Riders
Red Crested Skinks
Bastiladon (ark of Sotek)
Ancient Stegadon (Engine of the Gods)
Dread Sauras (forge world so maybe not)

Mounts

Trogladon

Skaven

Legendary Lord

Ikit Claw (Clan Stryre)

Thanquol (Gray seer) + Boneripper (Stormfiend mount)

Throt the Unclean (Clan Moulder)

Deathmaster Snikch (clan Eshin) it’d be good to have him as a lord but he could also be a master assassin Legendary hero for the Skaven.


Generic Lord

Chieftain (not needed)

Legendary Hero

Skweel Gnawtooth (Pack master)

Generic Hero

Master Moulder (Pack Master)

Units

Jazzels
Giant Rats
Wolf Rats (Forge World so maybe not)
Doom Flayer
Rattling Gunners
Deathvermin (Clan Rictus)
Albino Stormvermin (Thanquol)
Poison Wind Mortar
Blightscap Plague Pack

Augmented/Mutant/Armoured Rat Ogres (I heard none of these are official? Or they were retconned, I’m not sure, but Moulder needs more unique stuff and these seem like a decent go to)
Warp Grinder (not Needed)


Mounts

Great Pox Rat
Brood Horror (forge world so maybe not)

Tomb kings

Legendary Lord

Prince Apophas

King Tutankhanut (Numas Faction)

Sehenesmet (a Bone Giant, Liche Priest)

Ramhotep the Visionary (could be a leader of a construct only faction. Possibly a horde faction as well but he might be unbalanced, and I don’t think we need him. He could also appear as a LH)


Legendary Hero

Tomb Herald Nekaph (another Lord Bodyguard, this time for Settra)

Generic Hero

Tomb Herald
Liche Priest (Loremasters of Hoeth for TK)




This would be my version:


Added certain LLs I think there are missing, took out all the "has been dead for hundreds of years and there is no real way of outting him into the game without destroying lore".


Plus added a few weapon variants/champion units that would add a lot of tactical variety, specially for MP.