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Why is CA wasting time on flops like britania and 3K?

Firkraag888Firkraag888 Posts: 1,428Registered Users
I mean total war warhammer is booming. Blowing the sales charts away.

Britania flopped hard and 3k wont be successful imo.

Surely they should be putting those resources where they are most utilised.

CA would be far better of just building an epic tww3 and better dlc for tww2.
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Comments

  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Posts: 1,428Registered Users
    I dont think it has anything to do with china
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    edited February 16
    makar55 said:


    They discovered the red market so expect a lot more Chinese focus from here on out. Don't act surprised when they announce the next TW as a mobile game.
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Posts: 1,428Registered Users
    That would be a big step backwards
  • DabilaDabila Posts: 14Registered Users

    That would be a big step backwards

    that would be a big step to money

    but we will have to see how evolves diablo inmortal
  • makar55makar55 Posts: 1,785Registered Users

    makar55 said:


    They discovered the red market soexoect a lot more Chinese focus from here on out. Don't act surprised when they announce the next TW as a mobile game.
    I am still waiting 3K port for Xbox One.
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 2,033Registered Users

    I dont think it has anything to do with china

    The game has faced several changes (like being fanstasy instead of "historical simulator") specifically to pass Chinese censorship and cater to Chinese market.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Posts: 1,428Registered Users
    Enforest said:

    I dont think it has anything to do with china

    The game has faced several changes (like being fanstasy instead of "historical simulator") specifically to pass Chinese censorship and cater to Chinese market.
    Which game? Tww?

  • twwatchertwwatcher Posts: 2,248Registered Users
    I can give you one reason, from the latest CA financial report published 07/01/19 for year ending 31/04/18, introduction:



    Similarly from GW's latest report:



    The GW IP is not cheap. History is free to everybody.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03425917/filing-history

    https://investor.games-workshop.com/annual-reports-and-half-year-results/
  • Mohawk_RoshiMohawk_Roshi Posts: 1,763Registered Users
    You sound just like the people who say non historical TW is trash and a waste of CA's time. I don't understand why people cant just get over themselves honestly.
    A WIZARD SHOULD KNOW BETTER!
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,919Registered Users
    twwatcher said:

    I can give you one reason, from the latest CA financial report published 07/01/19 for year ending 31/04/18, introduction:



    Similarly from GW's latest report:



    The GW IP is not cheap. History is free to everybody.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03425917/filing-history

    https://investor.games-workshop.com/annual-reports-and-half-year-results/

    Ouch
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 2,501Registered Users
    Some people prefer the Fantasy games, others prefer the Historical games. CA makes games catering to both, because there's a market for both.

    It's like people who prefer chocolate ice-cream saying "why do ice-cream companies waste time making vanilla?". It's really not that complicated.
  • BoombastekBoombastek Posts: 2,026Registered Users
    twwatcher said:

    I can give you one reason, from the latest CA financial report published 07/01/19 for year ending 31/04/18, introduction:



    Similarly from GW's latest report:



    The GW IP is not cheap. History is free to everybody.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03425917/filing-history

    https://investor.games-workshop.com/annual-reports-and-half-year-results/

    2017 was release of tww2. That why, late of year was anonced ME.

    To OP.
    Britania was close to fail. Very simple gameplay pushed a lot player to skip this game. Poor cava impact, no agents, no diplomacy (even tww had some kind diplomacy), simple economy.

    With 3k CA learned their mistake. Plus they include option like tww single entities unit (I hope it can be disable). So 3k success depend on good release, that why publish date was moved. First behavior is main point in early day sales.

    The other thing as total war fun i see rumors about mistik "separete" team of each games.

    3K idk how good would be, i only know tww3 would be great. And 3k start affect it, that a bad thing.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 10,185Registered Users
    3K is actually a rather solid and nice game.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • hanesdavhanesdav Posts: 824Registered Users
    3K is surely not going to be the best TW ever but it will be successful because it is the only TW game focused on China.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,493Registered Users
    edited February 16
    ToB sold 200,000 to 300,000 units, which considering the use of previous assets and a high price, I really don't think that's a flop.

    3 Kingdoms will sell well, that's a bet I'd happily make.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 10,185Registered Users

    ToB sole 200,000 to 300,000 units, which considering the use of previous assets and a high price, I really don't think that's a flop.

    3 Kingdoms will sell well, that's a bet I'd happily make.

    it's also not a bad game. I personally think that the Saga games likely will, or should, be a bit more experimental, to test some ideas. Making that with cheaper spin off games is better than with the flagship main games and gives some feedback a bit earlier, allowing them to tweak that stuff at least some more for the next main game.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,480Registered Users
    All the talk from us armchair businessmen about what CA ought to do based on short-term commercial success, when as players this goes against our interests. Even if you want more Warhammer and faster, if you were to get it by CA purely taking the path of least resistence then what we'd end up with is an inferior and artistically-void game. CA have been joining in with the games industry as a whole in going down that road to suicide and mediocrity, I'd rather they changed course.

  • ZelnikZelnik Posts: 377Registered Users
    Hey, if they fail to get into china, all that investment is lost. just sayin.
  • tadakatsutadakatsu Junior Member Posts: 389Registered Users
    do you honestly think only china would want 3k? do you have any idea how many dynasty warriors fans there are in America? or even 3k history for that matter? CA would not invest in it if they thought it was not popular enough
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
    There's also the point that they have fans who aren't interested in Fantasy games. ToB had a bad launch, sure, but it's turned into a pretty great game and lays the groundwork for future titles within that era (heavens know people have been clamoring for more Medieval era TW games).

    And last I checked, when there was a poll about interesting settings for new TW games (way back before Attila), Romance of the 3 Kingdoms and Warhammer were neck and neck in popularity.

    There's also the point that working within the confines of the Warhammer universe can be a wee bit limiting, and exploring their own IPs allows CA are much greater degree of creative freedom.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,493Registered Users

    All the talk from us armchair businessmen about what CA ought to do based on short-term commercial success, when as players this goes against our interests. Even if you want more Warhammer and faster, if you were to get it by CA purely taking the path of least resistence then what we'd end up with is an inferior and artistically-void game. CA have been joining in with the games industry as a whole in going down that road to suicide and mediocrity, I'd rather they changed course.

    No one's arguing whether CA should go for 'short term commercial success'. The companies growing so they're able to create more content, which is fine to me.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 2,501Registered Users

    ToB sole 200,000 to 300,000 units, which considering the use of previous assets and a high price, I really don't think that's a flop.

    3 Kingdoms will sell well, that's a bet I'd happily make.

    it's also not a bad game. I personally think that the Saga games likely will, or should, be a bit more experimental, to test some ideas. Making that with cheaper spin off games is better than with the flagship main games and gives some feedback a bit earlier, allowing them to tweak that stuff at least some more for the next main game.
    Exactly. That's the big thing about the Saga games and ToB that a lot of people don't seem to get.

    CA has always said from day one - well before ToB was even released - that the Saga games were intended to act as a sort of "testbed" for new/experimental mechanics & systems, which might potentially make their way into the mainline games if they proved popular and were successful.
    There are several systems and mechanics in 3K that were originally developed in ToB and proved very popular; the rework of the Tech Tree, changes to recruitment & replenishment, food & army supplies, "evolving factions" & dilemmas/events, character loyalty & satisfaction, etc.
    These new systems and mechanics are integral to how the game plays, and are incredibly game-changing - so-much-so that it's highly unlikely that CA would have ever run the risk of implementing them in a mainline game without having tested them first.

    Also, given that the Saga titles are a new venture, it's make sense that they'd want to minimize any potential loss if it flopped by keeping development costs down - and they did that by building the game off of Attila and reusing most of it's assets. As well as that, as Davedave pointed out - the game sold somewhere in the range of 200,000 to 300,000 copies; hardly a "flop".
    Not to mention the fact that they'll soon be starting pre-production for the next Saga title - if ToB was such a colossal disaster and "flopped hard", why would they bother making another Saga game?

    🤷‍♀️
  • DavidtheDukeDavidtheDuke Senior Member Posts: 2,170Registered Users
    edited February 16
    I have no actual ill will for 3K etc. To be clear yes I would take all of 3K content for something like a Cathay DLC late into WTW's trilogy, but I don't have outright hostility to 3K etc. The main thing I hope is that, for both sub-genres of TW that team members become more exclusive than I suspect they already are.

    For example, if you check the credited team members between Attila and TWW, many are shared. I doubt this didn't affect timelines had either respective title not been developed. One person can only do so many things at once.

    My hope is that if 3K and WTW do well that CA grants more exclusive personnel to each project. It's already pretty reasonable to suspect CA doesn't want to have intracompetition between 3K and WTW, so I hope that at least actual development time is mitigated by baseline success of either title.

    We don't really know if 3K is a flop or not. I don't get the impression it is nearly as hyped as WTW, so maybe that will spur at least more focus on WTW in the future.
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  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,232Registered Users
    from all the documentarys I have seen about china there was never anyone playing video games or anything gaming related.

    standard workers in china have like 2-3 hours free time per day.
  • MarcusLiviusMarcusLivius Senior Member Posts: 638Registered Users

    from all the documentarys I have seen about china there was never anyone playing video games or anything gaming related.

    standard workers in china have like 2-3 hours free time per day.

    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-07-05-chinese-games-market-is-the-worlds-biggest-at-USD25-6bn

    Don't let facts get in the way of making a statement. My hope is you were being sarcastic.
  • GodWillTellGodWillTell Posts: 697Registered Users
    edited February 16
    3K + success = better budget for WH2 DLC's and WH3

    3K + fiasco = lower budget for WH2 DLC's and WH3. SEGA will probably take this into consideration.....

    I don't care about 3K, but if 3K means having better stuff for WH series then i'm happy.
    Remember what happened to Telltale: expensive ip's and low sales = bankrupt.
    In the end nobody has unlimited budget....

    Still WH series is the golden mine for CA and SEGA.

    #FORGHORGON
  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KPosts: 1,811Registered Users
    One thing I admire about CA is that they are willing to try new things even if its risky, or might have a shortfall. That said, patches and further dlc can really change a game everyone disliked to something everyone loves.


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein

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  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,493Registered Users

    from all the documentarys I have seen about china there was never anyone playing video games or anything gaming related.

    standard workers in china have like 2-3 hours free time per day.

    Really? That's weird, as the PC market alone is worth 6 billion.
  • DavidtheDukeDavidtheDuke Senior Member Posts: 2,170Registered Users

    3K + success = better budget for WH2 DLC's and WH3

    3K + fiasco = lower budget for WH2 DLC's and WH3. SEGA will probably take this into consideration.....

    I don't care about 3K, but if 3K means having better stuff for WH series then i'm happy.
    Remember what happened to Telltale: expensive ip's and low sales = bankrupt.
    In the end nobody has unlimited budget....

    Still WH series is the golden mine for CA and SEGA.

    I don't think 3K doing well has to mean WTW gets more resources. It might mean *a bit*, or maybe none at all. I suppose if 3K was an absolute gangbusters hit on par with GTA5 or something, then maybe, I can see a default reason to assume WTW would get some benefits from that. Otherwise, 3K's success in terms of simply assuming what it means for WTW's dev cycle and resources is, well, simply assuming.

    I can easily see a situation where a 3K flopping gets some of 3K's dedicated devs back on WTW permanently, with no actual dent to WTW in terms of content made or resources available. I can also see a situations where 3K does as well s WTW or even better with no ill or good effects to WTW.

    I don't see an actual reason to explicitly hope for 3K's success beyond that it probably won't hurt WTW that much anyway, and *might* have some benefits. There's even an easily imaginable situation where 3K does so well WTW development is actually slowed and 3K given particular priority (this may have happened with TWW1 back in 2016), but, again, that's just assuming.
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