Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Why I Won't Purchase

2

Comments

  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    mbe we should stop presenting our opinions as factuality.

    i mean if SEGA/CA were so perfectly in touch with the gaming culture, id wager tw arena would have been more successful. and then theres SEGA/Paradox'es dawn of war. so nope, tw is no perfect, there is still room for improvement even though the details r arguable and game companies r not all knowing.

    No one's argued they're perfect, so...
    The reaction I get when ever I point out how they are not perfect would suggest otherwise.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users

    mbe we should stop presenting our opinions as factuality.

    i mean if SEGA/CA were so perfectly in touch with the gaming culture, id wager tw arena would have been more successful. and then theres SEGA/Paradox'es dawn of war. so nope, tw is no perfect, there is still room for improvement even though the details r arguable and game companies r not all knowing.

    No one's argued they're perfect, so...
    The reaction I get when ever I point out how they are not perfect would suggest otherwise.
    Again, this is in your head.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
    Neither would you. The fact that I've been on here for about 9 years on not heard about it and the fact that people would hardly say it's game-breaking.. not a huge issue.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
    Neither would you. The fact that I've been on here for about 9 years on not heard about it and the fact that people would hardly say it's game-breaking.. not a huge issue.
    Remember that qualifier I used? 'Unless' you did X. I know you did not do X because you have said you have not noticed widespread complaints about the gate bugs.

    As a serial-moaner, I of course have done X.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
    Neither would you. The fact that I've been on here for about 9 years on not heard about it and the fact that people would hardly say it's game-breaking.. not a huge issue.
    Remember that qualifier I used? 'Unless' you did X. I know you did not do X because you have said you have not noticed widespread complaints about the gate bugs.

    As a serial-moaner, I of course have done X.
    So very specifically it happened to you. Did you mention it in the bugfixes thread or do you just bring it up as part of a list of things you don't like about CA?
  • MarcusLiviusMarcusLivius Senior Member Posts: 638Registered Users

    mbe we should stop presenting our opinions as factuality.

    i mean if SEGA/CA were so perfectly in touch with the gaming culture, id wager tw arena would have been more successful. and then theres SEGA/Paradox'es dawn of war. so nope, tw is no perfect, there is still room for improvement even though the details r arguable and game companies r not all knowing.

    No one's argued they're perfect, so...
    The reaction I get when ever I point out how they are not perfect would suggest otherwise.
    Nonsense. There is a large gap between everything is perfect, and the everything CA does is wrong stance that you take. 99.999% of forum posters fit somewhere in between. Playing the victim card adds little substance to your arguments.

    In this case the OP mentioned a bug that he feels has been present in a number of games. Wether it is the same bug across multiple games, or entirely unrelated bugs that give similar type issues, I am not sure. However, if the behavior is clearly identifiable, and replicable the bug 100% should be fixed by CA.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
    Neither would you. The fact that I've been on here for about 9 years on not heard about it and the fact that people would hardly say it's game-breaking.. not a huge issue.
    Remember that qualifier I used? 'Unless' you did X. I know you did not do X because you have said you have not noticed widespread complaints about the gate bugs.

    As a serial-moaner, I of course have done X.
    So very specifically it happened to you. Did you mention it in the bugfixes thread or do you just bring it up as part of a list of things you don't like about CA?
    I don't need to because if you had ever bothered looking you would know others have been bringing it up for years.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    mbe we should stop presenting our opinions as factuality.

    i mean if SEGA/CA were so perfectly in touch with the gaming culture, id wager tw arena would have been more successful. and then theres SEGA/Paradox'es dawn of war. so nope, tw is no perfect, there is still room for improvement even though the details r arguable and game companies r not all knowing.

    No one's argued they're perfect, so...
    The reaction I get when ever I point out how they are not perfect would suggest otherwise.
    Nonsense. There is a large gap between everything is perfect, and the everything CA does is wrong stance that you take. 99.999% of forum posters fit somewhere in between. Playing the victim card adds little substance to your arguments.

    In this case the OP mentioned a bug that he feels has been present in a number of games. Wether it is the same bug across multiple games, or entirely unrelated bugs that give similar type issues, I am not sure. However, if the behavior is clearly identifiable, and replicable the bug 100% should be fixed by CA.
    The criticism I make of CA would not be possible if I believed everything they did was wrong. You are giving me a point of view I don't have and have never expressed. In doing so, I'm getting the feeling that this point of view is closer to yours: you believe that everything *I* say and do is wrong.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
    Neither would you. The fact that I've been on here for about 9 years on not heard about it and the fact that people would hardly say it's game-breaking.. not a huge issue.
    Remember that qualifier I used? 'Unless' you did X. I know you did not do X because you have said you have not noticed widespread complaints about the gate bugs.

    As a serial-moaner, I of course have done X.
    So very specifically it happened to you. Did you mention it in the bugfixes thread or do you just bring it up as part of a list of things you don't like about CA?
    I don't need to because if you had ever bothered looking you would know others have been bringing it up for years.
    So, if everyone has the same attitude no one's bothered going to the place.. that was specifically created for bug fixing? What are we talking here? 10 people, 20, 100, 1000?

    The idea that people can claim CA never listens, due to a single bug, that isn't wide spread, sometimes occurs, is kind of amusing.
  • MarcusLiviusMarcusLivius Senior Member Posts: 638Registered Users

    mbe we should stop presenting our opinions as factuality.

    i mean if SEGA/CA were so perfectly in touch with the gaming culture, id wager tw arena would have been more successful. and then theres SEGA/Paradox'es dawn of war. so nope, tw is no perfect, there is still room for improvement even though the details r arguable and game companies r not all knowing.

    No one's argued they're perfect, so...
    The reaction I get when ever I point out how they are not perfect would suggest otherwise.
    Nonsense. There is a large gap between everything is perfect, and the everything CA does is wrong stance that you take. 99.999% of forum posters fit somewhere in between. Playing the victim card adds little substance to your arguments.

    In this case the OP mentioned a bug that he feels has been present in a number of games. Wether it is the same bug across multiple games, or entirely unrelated bugs that give similar type issues, I am not sure. However, if the behavior is clearly identifiable, and replicable the bug 100% should be fixed by CA.
    The criticism I make of CA would not be possible if I believed everything they did was wrong. You are giving me a point of view I don't have and have never expressed. In doing so, I'm getting the feeling that this point of view is closer to yours: you believe that everything *I* say and do is wrong.
    I'm not sure if "everything" you say is wrong. However, I am sure that some of the things you say are likely wrong.

    Anyway, earlier in this thread you already stated that you won't be buying TW3k, even if it turns out to be an amazing game. So, yes, you give the impression that you aren't truly interested in providing constructive criticism, you are just here to complain for complaining's sake. Is it cathartic to complain about CA? We all need our release one way or another.
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 1,148Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    Sorry, but actually the gate bug was a well known bug during Rome 2. Also in Warhammer the bug is noticeable.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users
    LESAMA said:

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    Sorry, but actually the gate bug was a well known bug during Rome 2. Also in Warhammer the bug is noticeable.
    Yes, by people you know within this forum. Out of the 3 million customers would you say a significant percentage of people complained or was even aware? It's easy to say 'well known' but without figures how can you know how wide ranging it was?
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 1,148Registered Users

    LESAMA said:

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    Sorry, but actually the gate bug was a well known bug during Rome 2. Also in Warhammer the bug is noticeable.
    Yes, by people you know within this forum. Out of the 3 million customers would you say a significant percentage of people complained or was even aware? It's easy to say 'well known' but without figures how can you know how wide ranging it was?
    I don't think 3 million customers are posting in the forums. I experienced the bug myself on multiple occasions in both games and also saw a well known youtuber address it recently for 3K. Next to that I almost never report bugs. To lazy to attach savefiles etc probably ;)

    That it's still a problem in 3K is unfortunate and I hope CA can fix it. Nonetheless I'm sure I will enjoy the game seeing the recent playthrough of Yuan Shao.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users
    LESAMA said:

    LESAMA said:

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    Sorry, but actually the gate bug was a well known bug during Rome 2. Also in Warhammer the bug is noticeable.
    Yes, by people you know within this forum. Out of the 3 million customers would you say a significant percentage of people complained or was even aware? It's easy to say 'well known' but without figures how can you know how wide ranging it was?
    I don't think 3 million customers are posting in the forums. I experienced the bug myself on multiple occasions in both games and also saw a well known youtuber address it recently for 3K. Next to that I almost never report bugs. To lazy to attach savefiles etc probably ;)

    That it's still a problem in 3K is unfortunate and I hope CA can fix it. Nonetheless I'm sure I will enjoy the game seeing the recent playthrough of Yuan Shao.
    Exactly, people can't be bothered reporting bugs, I mean, I've had a few full game crashes, did I like it? Nope? Did I dislike it enough to report? Nope.

    Does the bug happen a lot? Does it have a mass or game breaking effect? I don't think so. If I was hit by a serious bug I'd report it, but never needed to :-)
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,525Registered Users
    Ya the gate bug that is hunting the Total War series since Rome 2 is keep showing in Total War games.
  • toskyruntoskyrun Junior Member Posts: 84Registered Users
    edited February 19
    cupcakeee said:




    I won't purchase, and the excitement for this game is tepid at best.

    in relation to this, I can advise you to read the book "the romance of the three kingdoms".


    we Westerners have no idea how deep and full of concepts this book is. of course, we must clash with the endless list of names (it seems silmarillion) but here can help the posters of the creative assembly. I'm reading it with another book that talks about the history of China, and slowly, from 0 my hype is going up.

    then the constant delays and deficiencies lowering my hype, but that's another story.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users
    I think people forget about the AI glitches in M2:

    If a besieging army is reinforced from the opposite side the reinforcing army runs around the city castle to join their mates.

    If you killed off a unit holding ladders no one else would pick it up, then when putting ladders on the wall they'd turn into the Chuckle Brothers.

    The attacking AI would just mass into one entrance, meaning using hold decent spear units to hold and the send your cav through another entrance.

    Upgrade a cities defences to cannons attack a much larger sieging army and watch as they stand their and get cut to ribbons by cannon fire.

    Plus there was the diplomacy bug, which was good on paper but didn't work as it should (due to a bug). This was why everyone hated you eventually.



    It's strange how people see older games through rose tinted spectacles.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 9,892Registered Users

    I think people forget about the AI glitches in M2:

    If a besieging army is reinforced from the opposite side the reinforcing army runs around the city castle to join their mates.

    If you killed off a unit holding ladders no one else would pick it up, then when putting ladders on the wall they'd turn into the Chuckle Brothers.

    The attacking AI would just mass into one entrance, meaning using hold decent spear units to hold and the send your cav through another entrance.

    Upgrade a cities defences to cannons attack a much larger sieging army and watch as they stand their and get cut to ribbons by cannon fire.

    Plus there was the diplomacy bug, which was good on paper but didn't work as it should (due to a bug). This was why everyone hated you eventually.



    It's strange how people see older games through rose tinted spectacles.

    They also tend to remember the games not in vanilla but with mods like Europa Barbaorum (Rome 1) or Stainless Steel (med II)
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • YaafmYaafm Posts: 1,275Registered Users
    toskyrun said:

    cupcakeee said:




    I won't purchase, and the excitement for this game is tepid at best.

    in relation to this, I can advise you to read the book "the romance of the three kingdoms".


    we Westerners have no idea how deep and full of concepts this book is. of course, we must clash with the endless list of names (it seems silmarillion) but here can help the posters of the creative assembly. I'm reading it with another book that talks about the history of China, and slowly, from 0 my hype is going up.

    then the constant delays and deficiencies lowering my hype, but that's another story.
    The recent delaying of the game and outcry for and against it, says otherwise to how much excitement it has.
  • FredrinFredrin Senior Member LondonPosts: 3,012Registered Users
    I personally have no desire to see battles return to Medieval 2. That's just a massive straw man that Ephraim loves beating.

    But if you look at core battle gameplay over the last decade - and its accompanying faults - they have remained largely unchanged. I would like a similar battle length to Medieval 2, but with a richness of features that truly engaged the player with tactical decision-making, rather than them becoming based on twitch reflexes. No battle was ever won by a commander's manual dexterity or capacity to react to something happening quickly in their peripheral vision...
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
    Neither would you. The fact that I've been on here for about 9 years on not heard about it and the fact that people would hardly say it's game-breaking.. not a huge issue.
    Remember that qualifier I used? 'Unless' you did X. I know you did not do X because you have said you have not noticed widespread complaints about the gate bugs.

    As a serial-moaner, I of course have done X.
    So very specifically it happened to you. Did you mention it in the bugfixes thread or do you just bring it up as part of a list of things you don't like about CA?
    I don't need to because if you had ever bothered looking you would know others have been bringing it up for years.
    So, if everyone has the same attitude no one's bothered going to the place.. that was specifically created for bug fixing? What are we talking here? 10 people, 20, 100, 1000?

    The idea that people can claim CA never listens, due to a single bug, that isn't wide spread, sometimes occurs, is kind of amusing.
    The point that gets made is that the gate bugs are among many which have existed since Empire, a game released this month ten years ago. Funny how the point gets misrepresented as if it's just nit-picking though.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users
    Fredrin said:

    I personally have no desire to see battles return to Medieval 2. That's just a massive straw man that Ephraim loves beating.

    But if you look at core battle gameplay over the last decade - and its accompanying faults - they have remained largely unchanged. I would like a similar battle length to Medieval 2, but with a richness of features that truly engaged the player with tactical decision-making, rather than them becoming based on twitch reflexes. No battle was ever won by a commander's manual dexterity or capacity to react to something happening quickly in their peripheral vision...

    Yes and there were issues with older games that have changed. Also the quickest battles were rampant in Shogun 2, yet CA gets great feedback from it. So sure, you like and you want certain things but this is highly subjective and not based on a huge change based on what the customer base wants.

    The type of battle you're describing isn't TW and never has been. What you want sounds more like Fields of Glory 2.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    mbe we should stop presenting our opinions as factuality.

    i mean if SEGA/CA were so perfectly in touch with the gaming culture, id wager tw arena would have been more successful. and then theres SEGA/Paradox'es dawn of war. so nope, tw is no perfect, there is still room for improvement even though the details r arguable and game companies r not all knowing.

    No one's argued they're perfect, so...
    The reaction I get when ever I point out how they are not perfect would suggest otherwise.
    Nonsense. There is a large gap between everything is perfect, and the everything CA does is wrong stance that you take. 99.999% of forum posters fit somewhere in between. Playing the victim card adds little substance to your arguments.

    In this case the OP mentioned a bug that he feels has been present in a number of games. Wether it is the same bug across multiple games, or entirely unrelated bugs that give similar type issues, I am not sure. However, if the behavior is clearly identifiable, and replicable the bug 100% should be fixed by CA.
    The criticism I make of CA would not be possible if I believed everything they did was wrong. You are giving me a point of view I don't have and have never expressed. In doing so, I'm getting the feeling that this point of view is closer to yours: you believe that everything *I* say and do is wrong.
    I'm not sure if "everything" you say is wrong. However, I am sure that some of the things you say are likely wrong.

    Anyway, earlier in this thread you already stated that you won't be buying TW3k, even if it turns out to be an amazing game. So, yes, you give the impression that you aren't truly interested in providing constructive criticism, you are just here to complain for complaining's sake. Is it cathartic to complain about CA? We all need our release one way or another.
    I am absolutely certain I'm wrong about a lot of stuff, but I seem to have to explain my entire outlook over and over again a lot because people keep giving me personality traits and opinions I've never had.

    Unlike most people, I try to correct myself when I find out I am wrong. I'm hampered somewhat by a forum bug here which means when I try to edit in a correction the entire post is swallowed by pre-mod and never gets seen again.

    People complain because they care. This is good. When a company starts perceiving complaints as a problem and encourages communities to be hostile towards criticism as is the case here, it's always bad. I will not be getting 3K, but Warhammer 3 is coming at some point. I was very disappointed with how soon after the first game that the sequel came out, there only being a few improvements and CA seemed to have no plan already in place for joining-up all three games, which was the selling-point that sent the reception for Warhammer from 'meh' to 'this might be the best thing ever'. We found out when the Norsca fiasco hit that rather than making a modular trunk of development and producing the separate titles from it as branches so it would all line up in the end, CA had been winging it and instead were patch-working the combined campaign from the individual titles separate development.

    When I quit Total War, I want the last thing I have as a momento beyond the cheap plastic tat of the Collector's Editions to be a well-made game. That is not going to happen with a hug-box that praises everything CA does and discourages even the most gently-worded criticism. When I post, I have to balance that nonsense out.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,147Registered Users

    If the gate bug is so infamous, why have I never heard of it?

    The same reason it took CA almost six years after the first mega-thread of complaints about battle-pacing for them to acknowledge it, saying they had 'never noticed any complaints before'.

    They weren't paying attention to feedback or the state of the game. They have their own particular style of play, which we can see whenever they stream, but ignore how others play Total War. For about eight years now they've only catered to how their in-house staff play. They won't notice problems that don't affect them.
    Does not explain why WE have not heard of this allegedly infamous bug.
    Yes it does. You just don't like the implications if what I'm saying is accurate.
    No it doesn't. What you said doesn't explain why very few people noticed it. However, it does confirm that it wasn't a widespread issue meaning it's likely that CA didn't.
    You don't know how many people noticed it. You realise how hostile virtually all forums for Total War are to anyone who raises any complaints? Why would anyone stick their head in the firing-line unless they were as self-loathing and witless as I am?
    No, if there's a bug you report it in the correct part of the forum. However, if you get all hot and bothered in a general discussion it becomes very tedious.
    Unless you make a habit of reading through all the support sub-forums, you still wouldn't know how common and widespread things like the gate bugs are.
    Neither would you. The fact that I've been on here for about 9 years on not heard about it and the fact that people would hardly say it's game-breaking.. not a huge issue.
    Remember that qualifier I used? 'Unless' you did X. I know you did not do X because you have said you have not noticed widespread complaints about the gate bugs.

    As a serial-moaner, I of course have done X.
    So very specifically it happened to you. Did you mention it in the bugfixes thread or do you just bring it up as part of a list of things you don't like about CA?
    I don't need to because if you had ever bothered looking you would know others have been bringing it up for years.
    So, if everyone has the same attitude no one's bothered going to the place.. that was specifically created for bug fixing? What are we talking here? 10 people, 20, 100, 1000?

    The idea that people can claim CA never listens, due to a single bug, that isn't wide spread, sometimes occurs, is kind of amusing.
    The point that gets made is that the gate bugs are among many which have existed since Empire, a game released this month ten years ago. Funny how the point gets misrepresented as if it's just nit-picking though.
    It's a bug that happens 'sometimes', to some people. It's not exactly game breaking and it's not as if CA simple can't motivate themselves to sort it out. They need game saves of it actually happening, something, as people have admitted, can't be bothered doing.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,476Registered Users

    I think people forget about the AI glitches in M2:

    If a besieging army is reinforced from the opposite side the reinforcing army runs around the city castle to join their mates.

    If you killed off a unit holding ladders no one else would pick it up, then when putting ladders on the wall they'd turn into the Chuckle Brothers.

    The attacking AI would just mass into one entrance, meaning using hold decent spear units to hold and the send your cav through another entrance.

    Upgrade a cities defences to cannons attack a much larger sieging army and watch as they stand their and get cut to ribbons by cannon fire.

    Plus there was the diplomacy bug, which was good on paper but didn't work as it should (due to a bug). This was why everyone hated you eventually.



    It's strange how people see older games through rose tinted spectacles.

    They also tend to remember the games not in vanilla but with mods like Europa Barbaorum (Rome 1) or Stainless Steel (med II)
    I get this used a lot against me by people forgetting how many times I've said that I never use mods. The one time I tried them was to test theories about the battle-pacing in Warhammer 1. That lasted two weeks.

    19 years: no mods. 2 weeks: tried mods. Still I get told I am remembering features of mods rather than games, often by people who tell me blindly the way things are, only to later find out it was a mod.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 9,892Registered Users

    I think people forget about the AI glitches in M2:

    If a besieging army is reinforced from the opposite side the reinforcing army runs around the city castle to join their mates.

    If you killed off a unit holding ladders no one else would pick it up, then when putting ladders on the wall they'd turn into the Chuckle Brothers.

    The attacking AI would just mass into one entrance, meaning using hold decent spear units to hold and the send your cav through another entrance.

    Upgrade a cities defences to cannons attack a much larger sieging army and watch as they stand their and get cut to ribbons by cannon fire.

    Plus there was the diplomacy bug, which was good on paper but didn't work as it should (due to a bug). This was why everyone hated you eventually.



    It's strange how people see older games through rose tinted spectacles.

    They also tend to remember the games not in vanilla but with mods like Europa Barbaorum (Rome 1) or Stainless Steel (med II)
    I get this used a lot against me by people forgetting how many times I've said that I never use mods. The one time I tried them was to test theories about the battle-pacing in Warhammer 1. That lasted two weeks.

    19 years: no mods. 2 weeks: tried mods. Still I get told I am remembering features of mods rather than games, often by people who tell me blindly the way things are, only to later find out it was a mod.
    not talking about you. But there are quite a few guys who played those games modded more often than not and then compare the games to those modded games
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • FredrinFredrin Senior Member LondonPosts: 3,012Registered Users

    Fredrin said:

    I personally have no desire to see battles return to Medieval 2. That's just a massive straw man that Ephraim loves beating.

    But if you look at core battle gameplay over the last decade - and its accompanying faults - they have remained largely unchanged. I would like a similar battle length to Medieval 2, but with a richness of features that truly engaged the player with tactical decision-making, rather than them becoming based on twitch reflexes. No battle was ever won by a commander's manual dexterity or capacity to react to something happening quickly in their peripheral vision...

    Yes and there were issues with older games that have changed. Also the quickest battles were rampant in Shogun 2, yet CA gets great feedback from it. So sure, you like and you want certain things but this is highly subjective and not based on a huge change based on what the customer base wants.
    This is precisely the problem with their design philosophy in my opinion (see italics). The developers are so busy second guessing what the customer base wants, they have forgotten how to craft a truly original product that shows the hallmarks of passion and creativity that the early games had. (Please please don't confuse that with me saying we need to go back in time to those titles, that is such a tired and unnecessary argument)

    The type of battle you're describing isn't TW and never has been.

    There was a time, immediately preceding a number of games, when the type of battle the developers were describing "wasn't TW and never had been". Rome I, Empire, Shogun II. It's what made those games so good. I wish people would stop pretending that some very narrow orthodoxy of battle gameplay was the best thing for this franchise. In my opinion, it's the bitter end. There's a huge amount the battle designers could be doing that we'll never enjoy because of this conservative mindset.

Sign In or Register to comment.