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New World is Too Squished in ME

BrightestLightBrightestLight Registered Users Posts: 522
Title. The campaign map for Mortal Empires squishes the new world far too much. It warps it and makes it far smaller and removes a LOT of content. At most, I think that an update needs to happen where mortal empires is simply the old world map combined with the new world map, with nothing cut. The turn timer is already long, and this wouldn't really add that much time to it. At the very least, BIG effort should be put into making sure the final map in WH3, or whatever the last game is, doesn't cut any content, and has the ENTIRETY of the warhammer world being covered. Not part of lustria, not a warped ulthaun, not part of the southlands. All of it.
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Comments

  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,337
    I agree. I can't stand to play ME, especially as a game 2 race, because all of the territory from the second game is either missing completely or smashed.

  • GCRustGCRust Registered Users Posts: 604
    I think the idea behind the Mortal Empires map is that if you want a New World experience, the Vortex campaign is available. Mortal Empires feels more like it's "Here's TWW1 but with TWW2 factions".

    I do agree with the hope that the Immortal Empires map in TWW3 takes into account that it is meant to be "Game as Intended" Grand Campaign.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,542
    it should be noted that, aside of Ulthuan, those areas from the Vortex campaign that are in ME, are more zoomed in until the end of hte map.

    Also, ME has Lybaras. Vortex doesn't. It's a trade off.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,026
    Yeah, it's pretty crappy what they did to the map. There's a lot of truncation that causes problems in this sucker, not just in the new world, and it's really going to need to scale up for game 3 if they're going to not give us a suckfest. Smaller is probably necessary for some stuff, Ulthuan alone is a major balance problem at it's Vortex size compared to the old world, but certainly it didn't need to be that much smaller, and the variety of factions present on the just as truncated America's makes for a super packed environment.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,542
    edited February 2019
    psychoak said:

    Yeah, it's pretty crappy what they did to the map. There's a lot of truncation that causes problems in this sucker, not just in the new world, and it's really going to need to scale up for game 3 if they're going to not give us a suckfest. Smaller is probably necessary for some stuff, Ulthuan alone is a major balance problem at it's Vortex size compared to the old world, but certainly it didn't need to be that much smaller, and the variety of factions present on the just as truncated America's makes for a super packed environment.

    Vortex Ulthuan is massively upscaled though.




    ME Ulthuan seems to be actually of a reasonably correct size:

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 7,020
    edited February 2019
    ME Ulthuan is only "correct" scale in comparison to the New World. It would be the size of the Old World(Bretonnia + Empire + Southern Realms).
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,542
    I said REASONABLY OK. THe HE are already enough of a powerhouse without increasing their rather secure starting lands.

    Another thing you folks have to remember, when the combined map of Game 3 hits, the old world will be smack in the middle, while hte other races have fairly decent changes of securing a map border.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,026
    Ulthuan takes up an area more similar to the entirety of humanity on that map. Bretonnia, the Empire, Kislev, and the Southern Realms together. Land mass wise, it's larger the Empire.

    Exaggerated on the Vortex map? Oh yeah. Remotely accurately sized on ME? Nope. I did say it was a major problem after all. It's half scaled compared to the old world in ME, instead of doubled compared to the new world in Vortex.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,542
    psychoak said:

    Ulthuan takes up an area more similar to the entirety of humanity on that map. Bretonnia, the Empire, Kislev, and the Southern Realms together. Land mass wise, it's larger the Empire.

    Exaggerated on the Vortex map? Oh yeah. Remotely accurately sized on ME? Nope. I did say it was a major problem after all. It's half scaled compared to the old world in ME, instead of doubled compared to the new world in Vortex.

    You can't make it larger. not without spreading the Ocean between the Old World and Naggaroth/Lustria. Which in turn means more turns sailing.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,026
    I don't consider **** sailing mechanics to be a valid excuse for more poor game design. If they've done lore contrary things that result in poor gameplay, they need to fix them. Teclis, Lokhir and Harkon are adjacent starts. It's **** ****.
  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Registered Users Posts: 1,531
    I think it is better to look at these two maps to get a clearer picture





    Lustria has about 39 settlements in comparison to the 30 settlements of the badlands (including the silver road), although I still wish Lustria had about say 5-10 more settlements. Nehekhara was slightly improved with the addition of the two settlement Land or the Dervishes and the one settlement Heart of the Forest

    Although I think the biggest losers are the Skaven which have such little presence in the game. Crookback mountain should of been added given that Tretch was added, not to mention that map edits are apparently not that impossible to do, but because of this decision we have no skaven presence in the badlands.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,542
    What they edited recently was that they cut out areas from some territories and made them new provinces. They didn't add any more landmass.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 7,020
    Do you guys agree that a Skaven faction should hold Karak Eight Peaks? And maybe some in southern territories of Karak Azul.

    Not like they have much else.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Registered Users Posts: 1,531

    What they edited recently was that they cut out areas from some territories and made them new provinces. They didn't add any more landmass.

    The Galleons graveyard is more landmass. Also if you see the way that Death Pass encompasses Crookback mountain, they could of added that settlement in.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,542

    What they edited recently was that they cut out areas from some territories and made them new provinces. They didn't add any more landmass.

    The Galleons graveyard is more landmass. Also if you see the way that Death Pass encompasses Crookback mountain, they could of added that settlement in.
    The Galleons Graveyard is also added in an area that's already on the map. I was talking about expanding the map borders.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,337

    I said REASONABLY OK. THe HE are already enough of a powerhouse without increasing their rather secure starting lands.

    Another thing you folks have to remember, when the combined map of Game 3 hits, the old world will be smack in the middle, while hte other races have fairly decent changes of securing a map border.

    Hopefully we can go off one side and onto the other.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,542

    I said REASONABLY OK. THe HE are already enough of a powerhouse without increasing their rather secure starting lands.

    Another thing you folks have to remember, when the combined map of Game 3 hits, the old world will be smack in the middle, while hte other races have fairly decent changes of securing a map border.

    Hopefully we can go off one side and onto the other.
    hopefully not. Especially not if the right side ends at the Mountains of MOurn.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,337

    I said REASONABLY OK. THe HE are already enough of a powerhouse without increasing their rather secure starting lands.

    Another thing you folks have to remember, when the combined map of Game 3 hits, the old world will be smack in the middle, while hte other races have fairly decent changes of securing a map border.

    Hopefully we can go off one side and onto the other.
    hopefully not. Especially not if the right side ends at the Mountains of MOurn.
    Assuming we get the entire world that is. If not, then popping up on the other side wouldn't make sense.
  • John_KimbleJohn_Kimble Registered Users Posts: 589
    I agree about the New World in ME, and by that i mean Lustria and Southlands (Ulthuan and Naggaroth are fine). Been asking for this for so long.
    I really really wish CA would add something like 4 more southern regions to ME, 2 for Lustria (up until the Chulchan Plains) and 2 for Southlands (adding a compressed version of the Red River province until Zlatlan and opening up the sea from the newly added Sudenburg).
    This would essentially make the map perfect for me.

    The regions could also just be spaceous and with just 2 settlements each, but their addition would add very valuable and extremely needed space to those areas.

    Lustria as it is in ME, is extremely compressed, and will get even more crowded come the next LP. It saddens me that the whole of Lustria is as big as the Empire. I mean Talabecland and Middenland only are as big as half of Lustria pretty much. It really needs a couple of more southern regions.
    So much of the Empire is essentially empty. I get that Old World is where the action's at, but if you're going to keep it so big then at least add more settlements and cities. Otherwise, give more space to Lustria or Southlands.

    And then there's the Southlands. Man was i sad to see it all disappear in ME. Yes, we did get a whole new area with Lahmia and Lybaras. However it really needs some of its jungles back. Kroq's start is horrible in ME (while being one of the BEST in Vortex for sure). In Vortex you purge the rat-infested Southlands jungle, reclaiming long lost and forgotten temple cities and it's so awesome and thematic. In ME, you're stuck in a corner and are forced to ALWAYS go through TK's and head for the WE Mountains and the Badlands, which just feels super weird and boring.

    I doubt CA will ever change the current ME. They will probably only "divide" what is already present on the map, but they wont actually increase its boundaries. I also doubt WH3 combined map will change the seize of ME. But one can hope..
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 7,020
    edited February 2019
    I wonder how many noticed that Isthmus of Lustria is actually where Grey Guardians are supposed to be in ME. That's how compressed the map is. That if CA didn't move em further north there would be too little of Lustria on the map.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • RazmirthRazmirth Registered Users Posts: 2,226
    I do agree on an extended map for ME, as in the vortex campaign map merged with TWW1 map. The extra settlements make the new world factions spread out much more, giving a guy a chance to actually build up a small empire before having to be forced to go head to head with other large powers. Especially as skaven. Early game skaven clanrats and slaves is a nightmare vs Lizardman and the like.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 8,406
    I don’t necessarily need all of the New World and Southlands for ME. But @John_Kimble is on to something with his suggestions for both Lustria and the Southlands. Personally I am fine with both Ulthuan and Naggaroth in ME but both the Southlands and Lustria really feel like the got the short end of the stick. Even though it should be said that the Kroq-Gar/Khalida corner is actually a rather nice and different take on the Vortex map. Lustria however is just one part mashed and distorted Isthmus and one part big block of boring below it.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,121
    Guys you are forgetting about game 3 ME 2.
    When darklands added it would had massive ocean of nothing, on south of Darklands. Cos map rectangular.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 8,406

    Guys you are forgetting about game 3 ME 2.
    When darklands added it would had massive ocean of nothing, on south of Darklands. Cos map rectangular.

    Dragon Isles.

    And those elf islands in the Vortex.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • BoombastekBoombastek Registered Users Posts: 2,121
    RikRiorik said:

    Guys you are forgetting about game 3 ME 2.
    When darklands added it would had massive ocean of nothing, on south of Darklands. Cos map rectangular.

    Dragon Isles.

    And those elf islands in the Vortex.
    Expande from 3 isle to 15? Nah.
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,038

    psychoak said:

    Yeah, it's pretty crappy what they did to the map. There's a lot of truncation that causes problems in this sucker, not just in the new world, and it's really going to need to scale up for game 3 if they're going to not give us a suckfest. Smaller is probably necessary for some stuff, Ulthuan alone is a major balance problem at it's Vortex size compared to the old world, but certainly it didn't need to be that much smaller, and the variety of factions present on the just as truncated America's makes for a super packed environment.

    Vortex Ulthuan is massively upscaled though.




    ME Ulthuan seems to be actually of a reasonably correct size:

    Is lustria that is too cut down as lorewise pretty sure there is nothing important in southern southlands or western naggaroth in addition.

  • LuciferLucifer Member England U.KRegistered Users Posts: 1,864
    edited February 2019
    The old world should be the scale of the vortex campaign, and I'm sure they could still join it up nicer, but make the sea journey longer, which it should be. Add in all other faction towns and cities that are missing, but add them as ruins that can be colonized, or just plain add them with the usual start positions. The ME campaign is really, really too small and cramped up. Good post.

    Having a chopped off map really breaks the immersion, and irks the hell out of me and messes horribly with my map ocd.
    Post edited by Lucifer on


    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein

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  • BrightestLightBrightestLight Registered Users Posts: 522
    Now that I think about it, Skaven do have really little presence in ME. And yes, IMO K8P needs to be turned into a race between skarsnik, queek, and belegar.
  • YakintonYakinton Registered Users Posts: 323
    Please CA give us Vortex+old world+badlands map with WH3
  • NopeacejustwarNopeacejustwar Registered Users Posts: 994
    I’m cool with the old world being shrunk to accommodate more of the new world. There’s a lot of empty space in the old world and some minor factions could be clipped.
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