Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

What's in a name?

Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman ModeratorPosts: 4,606Moderators
edited September 2011 in Off Topic General
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/amazing-tales-from-the-skull-cave/story-e6frea6u-1226132668149

The gist of the article is that a 'new' Australopithecine branch has been announced, and touted as our most likely ancestor (keep in mind I haven't read the Science article yet, so I can't state this summary as gospel).

However, the problem comes in that Australopithecus Afarensis ('Lucy', for paleo-anthropology buffs), is dated at around 3 - 4 million years, roughly meaning that Afarensis should (?) be the ancestor to this little beasty...and that H.o.m.o Habilis ('Handy Man') is also dated at around 1.8 - 2 million years.

Now, the rules of naming are that a species lineage determines it's genus, which means that either this find is contemporary to Habilis, but without a common ancestor from the Australopithecines, or that it is contemporary with Habilis and both had a common ancestor from the Australo lineage.

The implication of the first is that the common ancestor to H.o.m.o and Australo's dates back beyond the 4 million year mark, and is yet to be found, and when it does it will have definitive H.o.m.o traits, rather than Australo traits.

The implication of the second is that we aren't what we think we are, and are in actual fact Australopithecines...which means our genus needs a name change to Australopithecus Sapiens.

Very big call on this man's part, and no doubt he will take a right royal beating in paleo-anthropology circles in relation to it.
Yes, it's me.

Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

If you didn't, click here...
Post edited by Hidden Gunman on

Comments

  • LeckanLeckan Senior Member Posts: 798Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    http://nyti.ms/oCXBh8

    In the Ny Times he's praised a little because he has shared his discoveries about this so well, instead of keeping it to himself like many others usually do.

    Very interesting.
    In a thread about the 21st of may "rapture"
    "Good job it didn't happen really because I'm still watching the last season of Married with Children and I'd hate to not know what happens in the last episode." - Shireknight
  • LeckanLeckan Senior Member Posts: 798Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Haha I just died a little inside when I realized that children will have to learn how to pronounce Australopithecus if this is correct.

    (sorry for double post, I accidentally posted above post here aswell, but edited this one to just include the eeeh joke instead.)
    In a thread about the 21st of may "rapture"
    "Good job it didn't happen really because I'm still watching the last season of Married with Children and I'd hate to not know what happens in the last episode." - Shireknight
  • Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman Moderator Posts: 4,606Moderators
    edited September 2011
    It's only been a couple of years since it was dug up, which is a bit unusual in that the announcement and naming has been very fast.

    The thing about Australo's is that they go from 'gracile' (slender light builds) to 'robust' (thickset, heavy framed build) as time moves towards the present. That caused a lot of confusion until accurate dating methods were developed...people thought 'robust' meant older, but it didn't, it actually meant a more specialised adaption to their environment. Where modern humans evolved towards a less specialised and more generalised build and behaviours, Australo's went the other way, and adapted more towards a specific niche.

    I would like to see how this find fits in with the other Australo's. My gut feeling is that this guy might have got it wrong and it's actually a continuation of the more gracile species, although it could be transitional to Habilis, although the article's description would indicate that it does exhibit rather primitive traits. The skull looks very Australo, although the same can be said of the older Habilis skulls.

    Either way, it's an interesting find. If if came from South Africa that's all the more interesting, as SA is late Australo central, and Habilis finds (not that there are a lot of actual fossils) are centred up in the Rift Valley, along with a lot of the early E.r.e.c.t.u.s stuff.
    Yes, it's me.

    Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

    You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

    If you didn't, click here...
  • Rath_DarkbladeRath_Darkblade Senior Member Posts: 2,113Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Leckan wrote: »
    Haha I just died a little inside when I realized that children will have to learn how to pronounce Australopithecus if this is correct.

    What's so hard about that? OS-tra-low-PEE-the-KOOSE. Easy as pie (and easy as pronouncing "pie"). :p
    "There is nothing wrong with nepotism, provided you keep it all in the family."
    --Winston Churchill
  • SasuSasu Moderator FinlandPosts: 8,876Registered Users, Moderators
    edited September 2011
    I've understood that, surprisingly enough, the naming prosedure is pretty fluid when it comes to these species between species. There will always be some debate, but the naming tends to be fairly rational. Some of the old namings are strange, but often they are renamed to make more sense.

    The wide spreading finds of these early species are very interesting. Humans have always liked to travel abroad ...and behave like idiots when they're traveling ...bloody tourists.
  • Napoleon 2ndNapoleon 2nd Senior Member Posts: 2,151Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    I thought letters were in a name?
    'It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the ones who are the most adaptable to change' Charles Darwin

    But I have a thing for cannon...
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 17,906Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    edited September 2011
    I think things like this are great. The find, the an.alysis, the speculation and the shaking up of the established comfort zone in acadamia.

    :)
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • Napoleon 2ndNapoleon 2nd Senior Member Posts: 2,151Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Whoah there dge! SLow odwn there! Not all of us are boffins!
    'It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the ones who are the most adaptable to change' Charles Darwin

    But I have a thing for cannon...
  • AtticanAttican Senior Member Posts: 1,152Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Whoah there dge! SLow odwn there! Not all of us are boffins!

    Many bothans died to bring us this information
    "Two years war and no conquest? The little province of Upper Canada holds out two years against the whole force of democracy? This is very grating," - Nathan Ford, a local official in New York State.

    "Just because you lose doesnt mean you surrender" - Stephen Colbert

    Where there's a whip, there's a way.


    I have never retreated in a strategy game, I just attack in the opposite direction.
  • Napoleon 2ndNapoleon 2nd Senior Member Posts: 2,151Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Aye, and this is what we get! When i see HG start a thread i thought it would be funny (or at least for me :)) ....
    'It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the ones who are the most adaptable to change' Charles Darwin

    But I have a thing for cannon...
  • Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman Moderator Posts: 4,606Moderators
    edited September 2011
    Actually, I think we have already split into several more lineages:

    Australopithecus Redneckia (me)

    Australopithecus Grumpia (Dealin)

    Australopithecus Bannus (several members at various times)

    Australopithecus Dumb**s (visits the forums shortly after a new release or dlc)

    Edit: And it seems our newspaper over here has now stopped posting readers' comments on those articles. Apparently a bit of a flame war erupted between two opposing concepts.
    Yes, it's me.

    Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

    You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

    If you didn't, click here...
  • Ancient_RuffianAncient_Ruffian Senior Member Posts: 2,715Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Australopithecus
    isnolongerwithus
    but stupidity
    lasts for eternity.

    Just a thought. ;)
    OSWALD: This ancient ruffian, sir, whose life I have spared at suit of his gray beard,--

    KENT: Thou whoreson zed! thou unnecessary letter! My lord, if you will give me leave, I will tread this unbolted villain into mortar, and daub the wall of a jakes with him. Spare my gray beard, you wagtail?
    - King Lear, Act II Sc. ii

    The entity previously known as The Weaver.
  • Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman Moderator Posts: 4,606Moderators
    edited September 2011
    Mysteries of the ages:

    Who first ate oyster?

    HG's Answer: I'm laying odds that it was a bunch of teenage cave-dudes daring each other to eat yukky stuff...because I can't imagine someone in their right mind thinking "Oh, look! I've just broken this hard shell thing open and there's a big slimy horrid looking thing in there...I might just have a taste".

    How bored was the first person who lit a fire using friction?

    HG's answer: I can't think of any plausible explanation as to why someone would make a fire drill set (drill stick, platform, kindling) by accident. In all the years people have studied even the most intelligent of apes, none of them have ever set anything on fire using sticks.

    However, I'm also betting that fire and the planned use of weapons happened around the same time:

    1st cave-dude: "Hey! Look Ogg! Me make fire! Me rub two sticks together! Me important! Me become chief of tribe!"

    2nd cave-dude: (Picks up stick and cracks first cave dude over head) "Hey everybody! Me make fire and make weapon! You make me chief of tribe! Oh, and Ugg have terrible accident..."
    Yes, it's me.

    Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

    You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

    If you didn't, click here...
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,169Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    SOrry but you lost me at "Australopithecine"

    edit: drat, can't find any clauses in forum rules to warrant infraction!

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman Moderator Posts: 4,606Moderators
    edited September 2011
    LOL.... :)

    Note to regulars: Whenever I see a Daelin post after one of my posts, I instantly double check my 'Notifications' bar.
    Yes, it's me.

    Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

    You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

    If you didn't, click here...
  • Napoleon 2ndNapoleon 2nd Senior Member Posts: 2,151Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    lol, same here HG!
    'It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the ones who are the most adaptable to change' Charles Darwin

    But I have a thing for cannon...
  • SasuSasu Moderator FinlandPosts: 8,876Registered Users, Moderators
    edited September 2011
  • Napoleon 2ndNapoleon 2nd Senior Member Posts: 2,151Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Lucky.......
    'It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the ones who are the most adaptable to change' Charles Darwin

    But I have a thing for cannon...
  • SasuSasu Moderator FinlandPosts: 8,876Registered Users, Moderators
    edited September 2011
    No, I mean whenever I see a Daelin post after one of my posts, I instantly know I have an infraction.
  • Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman Moderator Posts: 4,606Moderators
    edited September 2011
    ROFL...

    'Pavlov's dogs'....my psych will have a field day if I put him onto these forums.
    Yes, it's me.

    Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

    You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

    If you didn't, click here...
  • Napoleon 2ndNapoleon 2nd Senior Member Posts: 2,151Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    @sasu, very unlucky then...
    'It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the ones who are the most adaptable to change' Charles Darwin

    But I have a thing for cannon...
  • Ancient_RuffianAncient_Ruffian Senior Member Posts: 2,715Registered Users
    edited September 2011
    Better an infraction than an infarction any day...

    Well, at his age HG has to think about these things. :)
    OSWALD: This ancient ruffian, sir, whose life I have spared at suit of his gray beard,--

    KENT: Thou whoreson zed! thou unnecessary letter! My lord, if you will give me leave, I will tread this unbolted villain into mortar, and daub the wall of a jakes with him. Spare my gray beard, you wagtail?
    - King Lear, Act II Sc. ii

    The entity previously known as The Weaver.
Sign In or Register to comment.