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Denuvo TWW3

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  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Posts: 771Registered Users
    For those arguing that DRM is necessary because pirates, please visit GOG.com. It's a game store entirely without DRM. The games released there do okay. Piracy is not undermining them.

    Also, anyone who thinks DRM is something only pirates have to worry about, please try to install and play the regular DVD version of Fallout 3. You will find that it is a pretty decent game that just so happens to require verification through GFWL, or Games for Windows Live. Small problem: The service has been shut down years ago. You cannot verify anything through it.

  • CA_AndyBCA_AndyB Posts: 35Registered Users, CA Staff
    We're constantly monitoring and taking feedback on how anti-piracy software impacts your gameplay experience. Anything that negatively impacts how Total War performs on your machine is important to us. We take this feedback, and in some cases, contact people directly to drill into issues, and pass it along to the developers of any sort of anti-piracy software we would use. Our relationship with these software providers are similar in essence to, say, our relationship with a company like Nvidia; while we have no direct control over what they do with their software, our feedback is appropriately weighted and we work with them as developers to solve issues.

    At this point, Creative Assembly doesn't plan on removing Denuvo specifically, or anti-piracy software in general, from older titles. Even a few years down the road, games like TWW2 are a large part of our success, and something that we need to do our best to safeguard.

    I understand that this may not be the answer you want to hear, and am more than willing and ready to accept your critical feedback.

    Thanks

    Andy
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 1,124Registered Users
    CA_AndyB said:

    We're constantly monitoring and taking feedback on how anti-piracy software impacts your gameplay experience. Anything that negatively impacts how Total War performs on your machine is important to us. We take this feedback, and in some cases, contact people directly to drill into issues, and pass it along to the developers of any sort of anti-piracy software we would use. Our relationship with these software providers are similar in essence to, say, our relationship with a company like Nvidia; while we have no direct control over what they do with their software, our feedback is appropriately weighted and we work with them as developers to solve issues.

    At this point, Creative Assembly doesn't plan on removing Denuvo specifically, or anti-piracy software in general, from older titles. Even a few years down the road, games like TWW2 are a large part of our success, and something that we need to do our best to safeguard.

    I understand that this may not be the answer you want to hear, and am more than willing and ready to accept your critical feedback.

    Thanks

    Andy

    I appreciate the straight answer. Though, I don't see the point about keeping it for the older titles, I understand why you'd keep it for WH3 but older ones are already cracked and Denuvo may impact on the performance and that not really something desirable especially for WH2, the game is really CPU heavy and it would be good to optimise it even if it means that Denuvo should be removed. It's fine if you don't wanna remove it but at least optimisation needs to be worked on.
  • takilung31takilung31 Posts: 1,318Registered Users
    edited April 1
    neodeinos said:

    Though, I don't see the point about keeping it for the older titles, I understand why you'd keep it for WH3 but older ones are already cracked and Denuvo

    Warhammer 2 Denuvo still works, Pirates does not have access to the festag update, and they are complaining about crashes right now

    it also protected Warhammer 2 with a year until scene group updated the crack, which mean during those year no DLC, no Blood pack nothing


  • NeutronStarNeutronStar Posts: 97Registered Users
    CA_AndyB said:

    We're constantly monitoring and taking feedback on how anti-piracy software impacts your gameplay experience. Anything that negatively impacts how Total War performs on your machine is important to us. We take this feedback, and in some cases, contact people directly to drill into issues, and pass it along to the developers of any sort of anti-piracy software we would use. Our relationship with these software providers are similar in essence to, say, our relationship with a company like Nvidia; while we have no direct control over what they do with their software, our feedback is appropriately weighted and we work with them as developers to solve issues.

    At this point, Creative Assembly doesn't plan on removing Denuvo specifically, or anti-piracy software in general, from older titles. Even a few years down the road, games like TWW2 are a large part of our success, and something that we need to do our best to safeguard.

    I understand that this may not be the answer you want to hear, and am more than willing and ready to accept your critical feedback.

    Thanks

    Andy

    But your game is not safe. A quick internet search will tell you that. People who buy your games don't do it because they can't get it for free, they do it because they aren't thieves and they want to support you. You have nothing to gain in testing their goodwill.

    Meanwhile a very hardware demanding game is slowed down further through the use of an easily bypassed system. It's poor long term thinking and terrible marketing.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,437Registered Users
    CA has heard your view. And you might be right. But they will keep denuvo.
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Posts: 743Registered Users
    That's unfortunate. I hope at least CA optimize the game better if they don't want to remove Denuvo at all.
    Also the point that neodeinos made about older releases holds true, there is really no point to keeping Denuvo on them as well, unless CA plans to do a surprise patch or add new content for older releases like they did for R2.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,569Registered Users
    edited April 1
    CA_AndyB said:

    We're constantly monitoring and taking feedback on how anti-piracy software impacts your gameplay experience. Anything that negatively impacts how Total War performs on your machine is important to us. We take this feedback, and in some cases, contact people directly to drill into issues, and pass it along to the developers of any sort of anti-piracy software we would use. Our relationship with these software providers are similar in essence to, say, our relationship with a company like Nvidia; while we have no direct control over what they do with their software, our feedback is appropriately weighted and we work with them as developers to solve issues.

    At this point, Creative Assembly doesn't plan on removing Denuvo specifically, or anti-piracy software in general, from older titles. Even a few years down the road, games like TWW2 are a large part of our success, and something that we need to do our best to safeguard.

    I understand that this may not be the answer you want to hear, and am more than willing and ready to accept your critical feedback.

    Thanks

    Andy

    Ah you rascal. You almost got me there.
    Happy April Fools' Day.


    Jokes aside
    Even if I'm definitely not happy with it, I thank you for the reply.



    The TW games with Denuvo are:
    Thrones of Briannia
    Warhammer
    Warhammer 2
    3 Kingdoms (not yet released)

    I don't see a reason to keep it for Thrones.
    For Warhammer I can see the speculation of devs/publishers of selling some additional copies, since Norsca is unavailable for the cracked WH1 version.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • takilung31takilung31 Posts: 1,318Registered Users
    Sagranda said:


    I don't see a reason to keep it for Thrones.

    Denuvo is still working for Thrones, the crack even now is the one they released on launch, meaning pirates still have the copy without blood pack, DLCs and updates

    now I hope 3K and WH3 doesn't get cracked on day 1 as that would be really bad. ppl generally pirate the game not buying it if it gets cracked day 1, then they will play the game for a few hours, get bored then deletes it afterwards

  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,569Registered Users

    Sagranda said:


    I don't see a reason to keep it for Thrones.

    Denuvo is still working for Thrones, the crack even now is the one they released on launch, meaning pirates still have the copy without blood pack, DLCs and updates
    I'm aware of that.
    But considering that the game doesn't even have 200k owners (IIRC) and less than 1k players on average, I don't see the point of it. If it would still have a good and growing playerbase, ok, then I would understand it, but not in this case.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,868Registered Users

    Sagranda said:


    I don't see a reason to keep it for Thrones.

    Denuvo is still working for Thrones, the crack even now is the one they released on launch, meaning pirates still have the copy without blood pack, DLCs and updates

    now I hope 3K and WH3 doesn't get cracked on day 1 as that would be really bad. ppl generally pirate the game not buying it if it gets cracked day 1, then they will play the game for a few hours, get bored then deletes it afterwards
    And it would continue to work even if cracked. You can't escape its degrading tentacles unless it is removed. Scene just didn't bother with ToB.

    To be honest my hopes lie in the opposite direction. If that was the case Witcher 3 would do terribly as drm free game. We know it is not the case. Piracy has little effect on gaming industry.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
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  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Posts: 1,809Registered Users
    Denuvo doesn't really have much impact on performance anyway. It may be there but most of it is front heavy, meaning upon launch. Gamers believe for some off reason it's sucking up massive resources which isn't true.


    As someone who's almost done studying software development, I support developers right to protect there product. Spending months, years, going through crunch time, pulling your hair out because of bugs, is all hard work. It's difficult and if some A hole wants to steal what I did, he can bend over. Yeah may suck for the consumers (hardly) but when my life and paycheck revolves around my software doing good, and preventing some unknown event where pirates go rampant with my game and mass distribution occurs, I'll take that miniscule performance hit and give myself and team a little cushion of protection.

    If I know there is a performance hit, I can optimize in other areas to offset the cost involved.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIPosts: 7,160Registered Users

    Denuvo doesn't really have much impact on performance anyway. It may be there but most of it is front heavy, meaning upon launch. Gamers believe for some off reason it's sucking up massive resources which isn't true.


    As someone who's almost done studying software development, I support developers right to protect there product. Spending months, years, going through crunch time, pulling your hair out because of bugs, is all hard work. It's difficult and if some A hole wants to steal what I did, he can bend over. Yeah may suck for the consumers (hardly) but when my life and paycheck revolves around my software doing good, and preventing some unknown event where pirates go rampant with my game and mass distribution occurs, I'll take that miniscule performance hit and give myself and team a little cushion of protection.

    If I know there is a performance hit, I can optimize in other areas to offset the cost involved.

    There's never been any studies to indicate piracy hurts sales. The opposite has been found however.
    Thrones of Britannia: 69/100
    Warhammer II: 73/100
    Warhammer: 79/100
    Attila: 70/100 [Age of Charlemagne: 72/100]
    Rome II: 49/100
    Shogun II: 93/100 [Fall of the Samurai: 95/100]
    Napoleon: 58/100
    Empire: 53/100
    Medieval II: 90/100 [Kingdoms: 90/100]
    Rome I: 88/100
    Medieval I: 92/100
    Shogun I: 84/100
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,248Registered Users

    Denuvo doesn't really have much impact on performance anyway. It may be there but most of it is front heavy, meaning upon launch. Gamers believe for some off reason it's sucking up massive resources which isn't true.


    As someone who's almost done studying software development, I support developers right to protect there product. Spending months, years, going through crunch time, pulling your hair out because of bugs, is all hard work. It's difficult and if some A hole wants to steal what I did, he can bend over. Yeah may suck for the consumers (hardly) but when my life and paycheck revolves around my software doing good, and preventing some unknown event where pirates go rampant with my game and mass distribution occurs, I'll take that miniscule performance hit and give myself and team a little cushion of protection.

    If I know there is a performance hit, I can optimize in other areas to offset the cost involved.

    This thread literally starts with a video showing massive performance spikes when Denuvo starts doing crap during game, and trashes performance. It's not just load times. You can't wrap your executable in massive quantities of ****, and still get the same sort of performance.
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Posts: 336Registered Users
    psychoak said:

    Denuvo doesn't really have much impact on performance anyway. It may be there but most of it is front heavy, meaning upon launch. Gamers believe for some off reason it's sucking up massive resources which isn't true.


    As someone who's almost done studying software development, I support developers right to protect there product. Spending months, years, going through crunch time, pulling your hair out because of bugs, is all hard work. It's difficult and if some A hole wants to steal what I did, he can bend over. Yeah may suck for the consumers (hardly) but when my life and paycheck revolves around my software doing good, and preventing some unknown event where pirates go rampant with my game and mass distribution occurs, I'll take that miniscule performance hit and give myself and team a little cushion of protection.

    If I know there is a performance hit, I can optimize in other areas to offset the cost involved.

    This thread literally starts with a video showing massive performance spikes when Denuvo starts doing crap during game, and trashes performance. It's not just load times. You can't wrap your executable in massive quantities of ****, and still get the same sort of performance.
    (Seems like my comment disappeared, I'll try again)
    The link was in another similar thread.



    But yeah, as a layman I don't see how Denuvo's impact can be seen as miniscule.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,569Registered Users
    Those and other tests weren't even made at release of the game, but later.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Posts: 336Registered Users
    Sagranda said:

    Those and other tests weren't even made at release of the game, but later.

    Care to elaborate?
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,569Registered Users
    Rolf1989 said:

    Sagranda said:

    Those and other tests weren't even made at release of the game, but later.

    Care to elaborate?
    Nothing to elaborate.
    I misunderstood a statement in a different post and therefor posted nonsense.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,569Registered Users
    edited April 1
    Slight update to the cracked status of WH2, because of the information that was given within this thread.
    Festag Update actually got cracked 1 or 2 days ago.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 12,786Registered Users, Moderators
    Sagranda said:

    Slight update to the cracked status of WH2, because of the information that was given within this thread.
    Festag Update actually got cracked 1 or 2 days ago.

    Hah, only? Well, I admit, then that it seems worthwhile.
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  • ReeksReeks Posts: 1,793Registered Users
    I would really like to see a proper test done with/without Denuvo in Total War Warhammer II to see if it´s really a "minuscule performance hit" to use it as someone mentioned, or if it have significant impact on load times/frame rates as it seem to have on other titles

    If it in anyway have significant impact it should be removed, this game is so hardware heavy as is.
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,248Registered Users
    It probably explains why load times are so long, and accounts for the performance spikes.
  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Posts: 743Registered Users
    edited April 1
    Canuovea said:

    Sagranda said:

    Slight update to the cracked status of WH2, because of the information that was given within this thread.
    Festag Update actually got cracked 1 or 2 days ago.

    Hah, only? Well, I admit, then that it seems worthwhile.
    I don't know. It was only 2 months for a no paid content patch to get cracked. The same amount of time paying customers waited for the hotfix patch to go live.
    If the next DLC is cracked as soon as Q&C was, I don't see the point of Denuvo.
    I am also in the group that thinks DRM is pointless since people that pirate games will almost never buy the game legitimately in the first place.
  • takilung31takilung31 Posts: 1,318Registered Users
    CA already responded in regards to Denuvo, no need to keep the thread running anymore except talking cracks here and piracy

  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Posts: 743Registered Users

    CA already responded in regards to Denuvo, no need to keep the thread running anymore except talking cracks here and piracy

    Sweeping an issue under the rag won't make it go away. The CA official person said so themselves that they are willing to accept any critical feedback about their statement.
    The talk about piracy is about how fast in regards to a release they've been cracked and how useful Denuvo was despite it's drawbacks.
    Nobody is advocating for piracy or supporting it in this thread.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,012Registered Users
    Reeks said:

    I would really like to see a proper test done with/without Denuvo in Total War Warhammer II to see if it´s really a "minuscule performance hit" to use it as someone mentioned, or if it have significant impact on load times/frame rates as it seem to have on other titles

    If it in anyway have significant impact it should be removed, this game is so hardware heavy as is.

    Good luck, because that would require CA actively making it work without Denuvo.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,248Registered Users
    I'm pretty sure one of the benefits of Denuvo is that it's easy to integrate, and remove. :)
  • NeutronStarNeutronStar Posts: 97Registered Users
    Canuovea said:

    Sagranda said:

    Slight update to the cracked status of WH2, because of the information that was given within this thread.
    Festag Update actually got cracked 1 or 2 days ago.

    Hah, only? Well, I admit, then that it seems worthwhile.
    Lol really ? do you think people who want to crack can't wait a week or two for the game and a couple months to play the latest version ? Thr truth is that this content is only interesting for total war fanatics who will buy the game anyways.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 4,868Registered Users

    Canuovea said:

    Sagranda said:

    Slight update to the cracked status of WH2, because of the information that was given within this thread.
    Festag Update actually got cracked 1 or 2 days ago.

    Hah, only? Well, I admit, then that it seems worthwhile.
    Lol really ? do you think people who want to crack can't wait a week or two for the game and a couple months to play the latest version ? Thr truth is that this content is only interesting for total war fanatics who will buy the game anyways.
    Not only that. It is not as if they could not do it day one. They just did not bother.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
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  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,122Registered Users
    And do you really think that CA/Sega wouldn't pay for and institute Denuvo if they didn't have some statistics that suggest they benefit from it? I mean, we don't, but they wouldn't pay for it for fun. They have to have metrics that the public can't access to that would suggest they benefit from instituting it. Otherwise, what's the point?

    You act like because it gets pirated then it has no purpose, but they're the ones with the actual sales numbers and statistics and the like. They aren't instituting it to upset their fans. They're doing it because they have a reason to believe they benefit from that. The fact that you don't have access to that same information doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    I'm not a fan of Denuvo, but clearly CA uses it for a reason and if that reason benefits them then that benefits me too as a buyer who wants them to succeed and keep making products. If their internal machinations decide it isn't worth it, then they'll remove it and save that money.
    I am incredibly mad and angry at whatever someone insinuated could possibly, but not likely, happen in the WH series today and CA must answer for this with an explanation of why they might possibly, but didn't do this!!!
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