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Dwarfs are the best.

haynamshaynams Registered Users Posts: 269
Dwarfs are the greatest race by a mile. These stoic, hardy folk embody what it means to be honorable. They are a simple, transparent people, their politics pure and free from intrigue. They create beautiful works of art, efficient tools, and brutal instruments of war that teach their foes how awful goodness is when roused to violence.

Dwarfs venerate their elders and ancestors. They honor their institutions and uphold them, while in turn the institutions themselves remain free from corruption and self-aggrandizement. They are the greatest historians, and look to the past with both reverence and for an eye to elucidate the dark paths of the future.

They are not a people of conquest, and their wealth is generated truly by the works of their hands, the strength of their backs, and the skills handed down from father to son via their clan system and not through the exploration of other races.

Dwarfs are truly the embodiment of all that is good in the world and are the best race I. Warhammer (inc. 40k).

If each of us strove to emulating dwarven values in our own lives, the world would be a much better place.
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Comments

  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 2,508
    - This thread paid for by the Runesmiths' Guild.
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 3,382
    Ah, I see you're a dwarf of culture as well, Haynams.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    #Dwarfmasterrace
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,466
    edited April 2019
    Dwarfs are ok but it wouldn't hurt to give them golems and some other niche technology mentioned in obscure sources.

    But Best Elves are superior.
    Post edited by Maedrethnir on
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,376
    And then they collapse into ruin from a few earthquakes created by a magical toad.

    But yes, I do quite like the Dawi.
  • SetrusSetrus Senior Member SwedenRegistered Users Posts: 18,671


    Not as stringy as humans either.
    Don't worry.
  • AngmirAngmir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,253
    I am a Dwarf by heart for close to 20 years now.

    But I would not go half as far as you did in your description.

    Dwarfs arent bloddy angels - they can be petty greedy violent rude spitefull etc.

    They have their honor and pride, but there are many bad things that arent particualry avoided by them.
    There are dwarven thiefs and swindlers, bandits and cutthroats.

    Society as a whole is pretty stable ofc - most conservative humans arent half as traditionalist as Dwarfs, but its not as if it is exacly paradise whenever Dwarfs live.

    They are more of a amazing bunch of stubborn bastards than embodiment of goodness. But I love them nonetheless.
  • EnforestEnforest Registered Users Posts: 2,190
    this thread was made by gang dawi


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • RocketlegionRocketlegion Member Registered Users Posts: 671
    edited April 2019
    That's a funny way to spell Tomb Kings. ;)
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,335
    edited April 2019
    They're boring as hell and that's vanilla dwarfs as a whole in all fantasy media they appear in. Stout, small, beer-swilling, axe-swinging miners and craftsmen whose females may or may not be bearded, describes them all.

    Dawi'Zharr will be a breath of fresh air.

  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 2,555
    Your description is very idealistic, dwarfs in warhammer have many flaws. Like all other races in warhammer, their traits are taken to the extreme.

    Their belief in tradition for example, makes them incredibly conservative and makes them hostile to any kind of change, something that has been their bane many times as they refuse to adopt new technology or strategies. They have brilliant engineers and inventors, but any new technology takes a long time to get through their society, which has allowed other races like humans and skaven to almost catch up to them, or surpassed them in certain fields.

    The dwarven stubbornness is also a problem for them many other times, where they refuse to back down from even a tiny disagreement, never agreeing to compromise and that way escalating conflicts that could be easily resolved. If you haven't already, I would advise reading "Gotrek and Felix; Orcslayer", it shows some of the dwarven flaws very clearly.

    Another dwarven flaw is arrogance, much like the elves they believe themselves and their tradition and culture to be superior to anyone else, and they often underestimate others. They also rarely seem to acknowledge their own flaws, never trying to see things form others point of view.

    I am not trying to say the dwarfs are bad, they are still one of the noblest peoples in warhammer, but they are far from the angels that OP claims they are.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    Day 621 in the Everchosen - still no Dwarfs seen
  • That1dudeThat1dude Registered Users Posts: 50
    I believe you misspelled skaven, friend-pal. For what other race has achieved space flight, atomic bombs, AND lasers all at the same time? They also have the ability to create monsters that frankenstein could only ever dream of, and don't forget the ninjas. So what if all of that blows up half the time? they were probably traitors anyways, #skavenmasterrace yes-yes.
    "NOT ENOUGH DOOMSPHERES! NEVER ENOUGH DOOMSPHERES HAHAHA!" - Ikit Claw probably
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 14,341
    If you accidentally don't pay them properly, they will literally murder you.

    They essentially lack the ability to see anything from someone else's perspective. You do things "honourably" from their perspective, and if not they'll kill you.

    Dwarfs are not nice. But then, nor is anybody else in the Warhammer world.
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  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Registered Users Posts: 4,458

    And then they collapse into ruin from a few earthquakes created by a magical toad.

    But yes, I do quite like the Dawi.

    After comming vicotrious from a 100 years war against the strongest empire at the time.

    The earthquakes did damage, but the most damage cam from the swarm of orcs, goblins and skavens pouring through behind the normal defenses of the Karaks


  • ElectorOfWurttembergElectorOfWurttemberg Registered Users Posts: 1,935

    Day 621 in the Everchosen - still no Dwarfs seen

    We're lucky if we see anything other than Vamps, Elves and Skav/LZM, and I'm pretty confident the players are under contract to play Skav/LZM.

    I hate this about tournaments.
    Faith, Steel and Gunpowder Bows
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,883
    If each of us strove to emulating Chaos values in our own lives, the world would be no more. Which would be somewhat of an improvement, really.
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 1,986

    #Dwarfmasterrace

    Yes? What do you want? :D

    As to the topic... I heartily concur. Dwarfs are the best and the mountains must be purged of the lesser races. >:)
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    Canuovea said:

    If you accidentally don't pay them properly, they will literally murder you.

    They essentially lack the ability to see anything from someone else's perspective. You do things "honourably" from their perspective, and if not they'll kill you.

    Dwarfs are not nice. But then, nor is anybody else in the Warhammer world.

    That part isn't exactly true. The Dwarves know enough to distinguish a mistake from active malice. A case in point would be their tolerance for the various pranks played on them by the halflings.

    The Dwarves try to deal fairly with everyone they meet unless that person or race has wronged them. They expect fair dealing on both sides, and are perfectly willing to ensure that with force of arms.

    Even in their dealings with other races, one might point out that the blame for the war of the beard lies solely on the Elves, since the Dwarves tried their utmost to solve things diplomatically, only to be insulted and humiliated by the elves. The Human alliance for example has persisted in spite of any foibles by humans in general, even though there have been conflict with humans and human factions.

    And if you want a truly stagnant society, that would be the elves; Dwarves change slowly, but they do change, elves just don't change unless forced to. They're still living in the same feudal society (seriously, HE and Bretonnian society aren't all that different) and using the same tech as they were for thousands of years.

    Yes, the Dwarves have faults, but you're selling them short in the present case. Their greatest flaw is that once truly roused, they just won't forgive; they'll keep going till the grudge is settled; even there, they'll only really seek to settle the grudge and stop once they have.
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 2,555
    cool_lad said:

    Canuovea said:

    If you accidentally don't pay them properly, they will literally murder you.

    They essentially lack the ability to see anything from someone else's perspective. You do things "honourably" from their perspective, and if not they'll kill you.

    Dwarfs are not nice. But then, nor is anybody else in the Warhammer world.

    That part isn't exactly true. The Dwarves know enough to distinguish a mistake from active malice. A case in point would be their tolerance for the various pranks played on them by the halflings.

    The Dwarves try to deal fairly with everyone they meet unless that person or race has wronged them. They expect fair dealing on both sides, and are perfectly willing to ensure that with force of arms.

    Even in their dealings with other races, one might point out that the blame for the war of the beard lies solely on the Elves, since the Dwarves tried their utmost to solve things diplomatically, only to be insulted and humiliated by the elves. The Human alliance for example has persisted in spite of any foibles by humans in general, even though there have been conflict with humans and human factions.

    And if you want a truly stagnant society, that would be the elves; Dwarves change slowly, but they do change, elves just don't change unless forced to. They're still living in the same feudal society (seriously, HE and Bretonnian society aren't all that different) and using the same tech as they were for thousands of years.

    Yes, the Dwarves have faults, but you're selling them short in the present case. Their greatest flaw is that once truly roused, they just won't forgive; they'll keep going till the grudge is settled; even there, they'll only really seek to settle the grudge and stop once they have.
    About your first point, there is a story that disproves you quite literally. The story is about a human lord who hires in some dwarfs to build him a castle. After the castle is finished he pays them, but the payment is one coin short of the agreed amount. This causes the dwarfs to become enraged, and plan their vengeance and return later, killing the grandchildren of the noble (since the guy had passed away from old age) and razing the castle to the ground.

    This story shows several flaws of the dwarfs. One is their extreme sense of vengeance if someone wronged them and their inability to compromise. To the dwarfs, it makes no difference if they were wronged intentionally or not, they only care that the promise was not fulfilled.

    Another thing the story shows, is that the dwarfs are unable to see things from others perspective. They judge the humans by their family, because that is how their own society works. If a dwarf does wrong he shames his whole clan, but the dwarfs never considered if it was the same for humans.

    About the war of the beard, it was obviously mainly the dark elves fault, and secondly the high elves, but the dwarfs still did some wrong. If you read the war of vengeance trilogy, it shows that many dwarfs were eager for war, especially the crown prince Snorri. There is a heartbreaking scene where Morgrim, cousin of Snorri and Imladrik, younger brother of the phoenix king speak, and I think Morgrim says something like "If only we were kings and not our relatives, then this could have been avoided"

    Elven society being stagnant does not mean that dwarfs don't have the same flaw. Both realms have been in steady decline for thousands of years, and neither have made any great changes to their way of being. I'm not sure what your point is about the feudal society? Dwarfs also have a feudal society? Also, it's not like the elves haven't created anything, the fortress gates or the tower of Hoeth being built.

    All in all I think that dwarfs and elves are quite similiar in the warhammer setting. Both had a great age of triumph, both are incredibly proud and bound by their own ways, believing it to be the greatest. They also hate each other for what they see as baseless arrogance, because neither of the races are willing to acknowledge each others strengths, and only see each others weaknesses.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    edited April 2019

    cool_lad said:

    Canuovea said:

    If you accidentally don't pay them properly, they will literally murder you.

    They essentially lack the ability to see anything from someone else's perspective. You do things "honourably" from their perspective, and if not they'll kill you.

    Dwarfs are not nice. But then, nor is anybody else in the Warhammer world.

    That part isn't exactly true. The Dwarves know enough to distinguish a mistake from active malice. A case in point would be their tolerance for the various pranks played on them by the halflings.

    The Dwarves try to deal fairly with everyone they meet unless that person or race has wronged them. They expect fair dealing on both sides, and are perfectly willing to ensure that with force of arms.

    Even in their dealings with other races, one might point out that the blame for the war of the beard lies solely on the Elves, since the Dwarves tried their utmost to solve things diplomatically, only to be insulted and humiliated by the elves. The Human alliance for example has persisted in spite of any foibles by humans in general, even though there have been conflict with humans and human factions.

    And if you want a truly stagnant society, that would be the elves; Dwarves change slowly, but they do change, elves just don't change unless forced to. They're still living in the same feudal society (seriously, HE and Bretonnian society aren't all that different) and using the same tech as they were for thousands of years.

    Yes, the Dwarves have faults, but you're selling them short in the present case. Their greatest flaw is that once truly roused, they just won't forgive; they'll keep going till the grudge is settled; even there, they'll only really seek to settle the grudge and stop once they have.
    About your first point, there is a story that disproves you quite literally. The story is about a human lord who hires in some dwarfs to build him a castle. After the castle is finished he pays them, but the payment is one coin short of the agreed amount. This causes the dwarfs to become enraged, and plan their vengeance and return later, killing the grandchildren of the noble (since the guy had passed away from old age) and razing the castle to the ground.

    And did they refuse to pay the missing amount later? Any other omitted details? Not a good act surely but there gotta be reasons.

    There is also a story in one of the novels, a human allied army led by a Baron deserts the battle against greenskins without any fighting, exposing the flanks of the dwarf army which they were supposed to protect. The desertion results in heavy casualties in dwarf side and the King himself dies. They write the grudge and ask for a payment about it approx a hundred years later, the betraying baron himself was dead but his relative was on the throne and he refused to pay. Only after then Dwarfs come with an army to raze the place, but even still they see reason and stop killing the civilians after another noble intercepts and offers them the recompense payment.

    So even though the betrayal was far more dire in this story, Dwarfs first tried diplomacy without shedding blood.

    Similarly at War of Vengeance, they tried diplomacy first instead diving headlong with cannons roaring and got rewarded for it with heavy humiliation and shaming by the elves. The haughty Elgi deserved no less.

    Anyway there is no true "good" and flawless folk in this universe, but Dwarfs come close, especially when it comes to beer.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,376

    And then they collapse into ruin from a few earthquakes created by a magical toad.

    But yes, I do quite like the Dawi.

    After comming vicotrious from a 100 years war against the strongest empire at the time.

    The earthquakes did damage, but the most damage cam from the swarm of orcs, goblins and skavens pouring through behind the normal defenses of the Karaks
    Which never would have happened the way it did if it weren't for the earthquakes.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 14,341
    Yup, that was the story I was thinking about. All over one gold coin. And no, I don't think there was anything omitted.

    Oh, and also Louen and Thorgrim (the least stupid of the Dwarfs) defeated some bandits and when Louen said "Hey, let the peasants go, they were only raiding because they were starving and had no choice," Thorgrim's response was: "No, they had a choice, they could have chosen to starve." Thorgrim then massacred their prisoners.

    The Dwarfs are awful creatures. So are the Elves, really, when you look at it, but at least Elves expect you to do as you do, and not as they do. They just do better than you because they're Elves and you could never live up.
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  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 9,466
    edited April 2019
    High elves and dwarfs arent perfect but they are more kind then real world empires.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,201
    edited April 2019
    As I recall there's also a story about two dwarf clans who had a grudge against each other that lasted for generations, and after years and years of bloodshed they finally made peace and married their houses to one another.

    ...at which point the giant statue of Grimnir standing over the wedding ceremony collapsed and killed everyone because by making peace they had forsaken their grudge oaths against one another and Grimnir was angry at the offense. Their whole society is screwed in the head, from the Ancestor Gods on down.
  • haynamshaynams Registered Users Posts: 269
    A grudge isn’t automatically a blood feud to the death. In terms of the Grobi and Thaggoraki yes, it is - their transgressions are so many and so awful that they can only be assuaged in blood, but to insist that a grudge is some fued that must be mindlessly carried out until death is false. The war of the beard ended with the seizing of a crown as recompense.

    Oaths are to be fulfilled. They hold everyone to that standard, and it is a just standard. The miscalculation of a payment isn’t a broken oath, and as others have pointed out, Dwarfs can and do negotiate errors before resorting to axe.

    Grungi was right to smite those families. Before ending their grudge they should’ve satisfied the root cause of the grudge to begin with. Again, doesn’t necessarily have to be severed heads.

    The story of Thorgirm executing the peasants is a just one - he was correct; they did have a choice. And most nobles of the Empire (and it’s Holy Roman analogue) would’ve agreed with him.

    Dwarfs are the best.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 14,341
    I don't care what most nobles of the Empire or the Holy Roman Empire would think. I care what I think.

    I, on the other hand, disagree with Thorgrim. He's cruel and foolish. A Bretonnian had more compassion for rebellious peasants. A Bretonnian. For peasants. Compassion.

    Dwarfs lack empathy. And in lacking empathy they lack compassion. Somehow that makes their lack of perspective taking even worse. They're trustworthy and predictable, yes, but not good people.

    Or are they even that? They voted against helping the world during the End Times. So much for their oaths.
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  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    Canuovea said:



    I, on the other hand, disagree with Thorgrim. He's cruel and foolish. A Bretonnian had more compassion for rebellious peasants. A Bretonnian. For peasants. Compassion.

    It could be a simple pragmatism in this case. Peasants are the cattle of Bretonnia. Why kill the cattle when you can use them? Both in battle and agriculture peasants are the backbone of their country :p
    Canuovea said:



    Or are they even that? They voted against helping the world during the End Times. So much for their oaths.

    I'm not well versed in the mess that is called End Times, but Dwarfs had been fighting the ruinous powers ever since their very existence. Again it was a High Elf aka Teclis that dealt one of the biggest blows to the world with the fight against Chaos forces by stealing the fire of Ulric for selfish reasons and causing the fall of whole Middenheim.
  • haynamshaynams Registered Users Posts: 269
    Of course Dwarfs helped during the end times.

    They were one of the three armies that attacked Slyvania to free the everchild. Ungrim gave his life so that Karl Franz would live.

    True, in terms of famous dwarfs, only Grombindal was at the last battle at Middenheim, but that’s because the rest of them were dead!
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,335
    haynams said:



    The story of Thorgirm executing the peasants is a just one - he was correct; they did have a choice. And most nobles of the Empire (and it’s Holy Roman analogue) would’ve agreed with him.

    Dwarfs are the best.

    So, watch your family and yourself starve or take the food from those who have it but wouldn't share it with you.

    You know, I find Dwarfs are utterly detestable. At least Skaven, Greenskins, Warriors of Chaos and, hell, the Chaos Dwarfs are upfront about what they are doing instead of hiding behind some fake veneer of righteousness.


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