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Ideas for Improving Campaign Mechanics (All Races)

AxelBlazeAxelBlaze Registered Users Posts: 5
Okay, so I'm making this post to share my ideas on how to make campaigns great again. I've played WARHAMMER 1 + 2 about 800 hours combined, bought every DLC, earned every achievement and am pumped for the Prophet & Warlock.
That being said, I think there are a few ways the existing races could be improved. These ideas are primarily for single player, since I play campaign almost exclusively. Obviously, all these ideas are highly subjective and you are welcome to disagree. What do you guys think?

Roster: A great race and a full roster, but Norsca desperately needs 1-2 new legendary lords. Considering how good a job CA did with Cylostra, they could even be original lords.

Campaign: Doesn't really need anything: the confederation mechanic, beast hunts and favor of the dark gods are both unique and extremely fitting mechanics. Their poor infrastructure also pushes them toward the way they are meant to be played, i.e. raiding and pillaging everything. One of the best races in the entire game, mechanics-wise, if not the best.

Roster: Really good roster, but they need 1 additional legendary lord.

Campaign: The worst campaign mechanics in the entire game, by far. Not only does the Empire ONLY have the imperial offices thing going for it, it's not even unique (Vampire Coast and Wood Elves have their own versions)! They definitely need a serious upgrade to bring them up to current standards. Here are some ideas:
Imperial Power: Accumulate a unique resource for any shows of strength that you do: quelling rebellions, conquering territory, founding armies, defeating armies (especially if they are Chaos, Vampires or Greenskins). Imperial power can be used to rush technologies, unlock special bonuses and even recruit units for free under certain conditions.
Imperial Tech Tree: A new tech tree that is unique to the Empire, and used alongside the old tech tree. The special techs of the Imperial Tech Tree can only be unlocked with a combination of Imperial Power and money, and only if you conquer certain territories. For example, to unlock Talabecland's unique techs, you have to conquer the area in its entirety. This could provide access to a unique unit type, stat boost or something else. The tech tree would provide Empire players a reason to actually, you know, build up the Empire and pursue unification of mankind.

Roster: Good roster, and likely to receive some additions with Warhammer 3, since Daemon Princes will enter the fray and some of the units are shared.

Campaign: Just like Beastmen, Chaos are boring as hell on the campaign map, especially if you play mortal empires. Want to play for 5 seconds and then wait a full minute as the other races make moves? Sweet, Chaos is for you! In all seriousness, there are a few easy ways to make Chaos far more engaging.
Chaos March: It makes perfect sense that Chaos has no ambush mode, because subtlety is not in the cards when you wear 200 pound armor. However, why is their marching mechanic the same as the other races? Dudes literally do not eat or sleep since the energy of Chaos keeps them going. With Chaos March, Chaos armies would move as with regular march, but would NOT be susceptible to ambush or become tired in battle. They still, however, could not attack on the turn they march. This would make that long trek from the Chaos Wastes that much more tolerable.
Encamp Move: Automatically encamp after moving. Seriously, screw toggling this manually so you can enable healing for your precious, precious army.
Mobile Siege Buildings: Chaos are underpowered when fighting against heavily garrisoned settlements, because they cannot afford multiple armies (this is assuming you play on very hard). This could be rectified with a new horde building that grants a bombardment ability for siege (and perhaps even regular) battles. Chaos should not be forced to besiege a settlement, they simply come in and wipe everything out.
The Allure of Chaos: This would be awesome. As Chaos corruption spreads, you are able to build your own buildings in cities, which provide line of sight and either increase corruption locally, spread corruption, generate money, improve your healing and movement speed (while in the province) or weaken the enemy. You couldn't build all of these in a single settlement, only 1-3 of them (depending how corrupt the province is). The catch? These buildings are destroyed if Chaos corruption in the province becomes too low. This mechanic would allow the player to actually do something on their turn instead of just waiting for replenishment, moving slowly across the world or running away (since you can't afford to lose your one and only stack). The Allure of Chaos would basically solve all the problems that plague Chaos campaigns, and wouldn't be a huge thing to implement (it basically works like Vampire Coast pirate coves with a few alterations).

Roster: Perhaps the worst roster in the game. Missing awesome units like Doombulls, Jabberslythes and other cool stuff. Really, REALLY need a paid DLC that fills up their ranks.

Campaign: Beastmen might be the King of Boring on the campaign map (though Chaos comes a close second). Their primary tactic is to hit the weak, run away and slowly build a doomstack. And even then they remain vulnerable, because additional stacks are very difficult to acquire and maintain, and moving along beast paths often leads to interception and immediate death. They need some serious work to make them actually fun. Here are a few ideas:
Vigorous Beasts: Beastmen need armies that move much faster than they do now. This would allow very convenient hit-and-run tactics and to also avoid enemy combatants more easily.
Reduced Upkeep Costs / Free Second Army: To help differentiate them from Chaos, Beastmen need an easier way to field 2-4 stacks. Currently, you can only afford 1, unless if you use absolutely terrible units. How about 2 armies with the upkeep costs of having a single army? This would add a whole new level of complexity to playing them.
Bestial Cunning: Allow Beastmen to land guaranteed ambush battles by expending bestial rage. This would also make for very interesting choices: will I build up for a brayherd, or will I go for guaranteed ambushes?
Chance of Detection: Seriously, every time you are using beast paths, just show the chance of being detected and surprised by enemy forces. I've been found several times by enemy armies that I thought were miles away from detecting my stack. For Beastmen, this detection usually means campaign over, since they only have a single stack.

Roster: Pure awesomeness, but the insanely long names - "Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob" - are pretty funny for all the wrong reasons. Why not just "Gunnery Mob"? It's not like anyone could mistake these rotten dudes for living people. Bonus mention for Cylostra, who is awesome as hell and a completely original creation. Aranessa Saltspite is the worst thing about Vampire Coast - nothing about her is unique, her "special" human units are gutter-tier trash and her campaign is spent fighting High Elves like Count Noctilus. Aranessa needs a rework of some kind - why not put her up against Tomb Kings?

Campaign: Along with Tomb Kings and Norsca, the best campaign mechanics in the game. Want to take to the seas and fight other pirates? You can. Want to be a single-settlement spymaster who establishes coves and attacks only choice targets? You can. Want to play a traditional campaign and only take to the seas when you want to win the campaign? You can. The most versatile campaign in the game and pure awesomeness.

Roster: Excellent roster and missing practically nothing unique.

Campaign: In really good shape. The Blood Kiss system adds a lot of choice and replayability, and forces you to use heroes for assassination, which is extremely lore-friendly. The fact that you can research zombies to be zero upkeep is a stroke of genius and allows you to field multiple trash-tier armies, even on legendary. Vampire Counts could perhaps benefit from having the High Elf Influence system added, because it would make perfect sense for scheming. But even without it, Vampire Counts are in good shape campaign-wise.

Roster: A very complete roster, but they could do with another legendary lord.

Campaign: Their campaign is one of the most boring ones. Their buildings are uninteresting, their defining mechanic is WAAAAGH!, which is not even unique (shared with the Beastmen) and the only real way to play them is to keep on attacking settlements at every turn to make up for their ****-poor economy. Something needs to be added to make them more interesting and on par with the other races. For example:
Teef: A unique resource gained only by winning battles. The more teef you have, the less public order problems you have - with enough teef, you can also keep up fightiness of all armies. The catch? You have multiple good uses for teef, such as rapid replenishment, finishing structures instantly, researching something immediately, reducing recruitment duration and so on. Additionally, recruiting additional lords costs teef, and you cannot recruit lords unless if you have a minimum amount of teef (the number grows for additional lords).
Loyalty: Seriously, how is loyalty not a mechanic for greenskins!? Rather than suffering just fightiness losses for not fighting, have the lords suffer loyalty loss, ESPECIALLY if they lose fights.
Burrowing: If you've previously attacked a settlement, utilize goblin sappers to collapse towers and walls. This is always costly, because the goblins die in the process.
I'm the biggist!: Occasionally, a challenger will rise from your own lands, who wants to challenge your faction leader, setting up a raidin' camp before you do so. Defeating this challenger will net a large amount of teef, money, loyalty and a short-term public order bonus for all your lands. However, if you defeat this challenger with a lord that is not your faction leader, their loyalty will decrease.

Roster: Complete roster and exactly how it should be done.

Campaign: A completely unique and engaging way to play. In addition, they have the whole crafting thing going for them. Tomb Kings are so expertly made that they don't really need anything to make them complete - they are already a 5/5 experience.

No comment, the expansion is not out yet and will likely fix most of the problems the race has.

Same for Lizardmen.

Roster: Essentially a complete roster, very well done.

Campaign: I know the Bretonnia rework is coming, but I've got an idea so good I've got to share it.
Crusader Kings: Know how Bretonnian units are insanely expensive? Well here's a partial solution to that: crusader campaigns. With the right tech, buildings and/or edicts, you are able to launch crusades. These consist of a single doomstack that costs no upkeep and cannot recruit more units (but can still replenish) and must journey to a specific part of the world (i.e. Naggaroth, Lustria or Southlands) to fight a specific race - if they do not do so, the army will quickly (and unchivalrously) disband. If they score enough victories during a time limit, they automatically return home and generate a large amount of chivalry and especially money. This would also help make campaigns more interesting: now you have to fight different kinds of opponents without compromising the security of your nation.

Roster: Bloodwrack Medusa and Beastmasters need to be added: the Beastmaster would help to make Hydra and other monsters more viable as well (like Necrotects make constructs viable for Tomb Kings). Other than that, the roster is solid.

Campaign: Both slavery and Black Arks need a slight rework. Black Arks are hilariously easy to take down now that Vampire Coast and other pirates roam the seas.
Black Ark Might: The defensive capabilities of Black Arks need to be seriously upgraded. Why not add garrisons to them, in addition to the armies they can recruit? If they attack something, they cannot utilize the garrison. This would greatly improve their survival rate and still not make them overpowered.
Slavery: Slavery is boring. In the early game, it causes rebellions you can easily overpower. In the late game, it does nothing, since you have the right buildings and tech bonuses to public order. It would be pretty sweet if you could construct buildings that allow slaves to have offspring, reducing their decline rates. There also needs to be some kind of system that can trigger slave uprisings: large stacks of **** slaves with high leadership (it's freedom or death) but with poor stats. The race of these slaves could even be determined by which enemies you have been fighting. Currently, the only worthwhile thing the slaves are there for is for sacrifice and generating some money, which is a little boring.

Roster: A really solid and full roster, though I would pay money to see the hilarity that would be the Lothern Sky Cutter in full 3D.

Campaign: With High Elves, you get the feeling that they could use some love. The court intrigue system is amazing, but it's practically the only thing they have that is unique. How about expanding the intrigue system? Force other races to sever trade ties by using your influence. Add more quests that reward intrigue points if you complete them. Forcefully annex other High Elf civilizations by using enough intrigue. Rush technologies with intrigue, etc. etc.

Roster: A really good and decent roster, but man oh man do these guys need 2 more legendary lords.

Campaign: Athel Loren is really well implemented. It truly is the frightening bastion of Asrai power that it is supposed to be. But the amber mechanics... oh boy are they bad. Since any outposts you conquer are practically indefensible, amber is a bad enough mechanic to make the campaign nearly unplayable. Luckily, there are easy fixes:
Permanent Amber: Any amber gained is permanent. You can still only gain amber once from a single settlement. This supports the nomadic Wood Elf culture, where the only permanent settlement is Athel Loren.
Bastions: Spend 5 (or whatever) amber to found a bastion in any non-Athel Loren settlement you own. Bastions are capable of housing buildings similar to Athel Loren and can have powerful garrisons. They are designed to be "homes away from home", allowing easier wars when you are far away from the forest. They also provide increased line of sight on the campaign map, more than outposts.

Roster: All major units featured, though a Thunderbarge would still be sweet.

Campaign: A uniquely strong economy, grudges and the crafting system are more than enough to make Dwarfs a completely unique and fresh race.


  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,313
    Well I had a fair amount of cynicism at the beginning of this but actually some really good simple suggestions that wouldn't require huge amounts of work for once. Hopefully CA has some of the same ideas and we'll see them implemented.
  • Rolf1989Rolf1989 Registered Users Posts: 546
    edited April 2019
    Yeah I like your ideas. Small things I disagree with, but simple and good solutions.
  • AnothaGit#1778AnothaGit#1778 Registered Users Posts: 309
    Imperial Tech Tree

    I like that idea. It could offer some boosts (Better Roads to increase movement speed in the empire f.e. ) but mostly region specific units. Like the RoR but without chevrons. So recruiting them in the proper region which also gives boosts like cannons in Nuln would make them better straight of the bat.
  • The_Radude#3776The_Radude#3776 Registered Users Posts: 424
    For Greenskins,

    I think there should be more black orc units, more savage orc units, more lord options (More warbosses), feral wyverns should be a new unit, more troll units, confederation maybe being similar to Norsca's confederation. (more units in general for Greenskins)

    Also, I think the whole WAAAGH armies for both Greenskins and Beastmen should be controlled by player because it is frustrating to have the AI follow you only to go off because enemies are nearby.
  • Patrikseve#8733Patrikseve#8733 Registered Users Posts: 2,133
    edited April 2019
    Can I add that I think Lokhir should have a black ark as his naval ship, in essence he can build his ship same as vampire coast. I mean instead of spawning with an blackship led by an admiral he should have it be a combined LL with a black ark similar to how coast LL:s are. It might make him a bit Op as a lord but at the same time lorewise its something I think can be added same as they do with the trident for Alberic. While I still think Alberic could have gotten a small building in a ship mechanic not fully as with coasts or the likes to add to his naval elements. Maybe it could be from the ships you can build a building that gains you access to a crusading mechanic and give you some acess to a few holy/esque units in the rooster (nothing extensive to not water down the mechanic for the Coast or Dark Elves). When you have built it in the ship you can then select a faction to target as a crusader objective. If you want to add depth to it you can add a diplomacy option for other Bretoonian factions to join in. If you succeed in the goal you get some benefits and bonuses and such (maybe there would be a requirement for you to target a faction though). Vampire Coast I think needs the Norscan settlement feature where they can only settle coastal cities. This would help in the campaign a bit to not having them painting large swats of it and maybe some more balancing needs there otherwise perfect. I think greenskins could use a variant of the norsca confed option, not just strenght but if they beat the leader of an faction they can confed it. Another suggestion to them is like you said some rework of currency with teef and maybe something done with the waagh mechanic. Regarding Beastmen I think there rooster is good, its a fun faction to fight with, maybe they need another LL and a few units but campaign wise I think you are on the right track with fielding more armies and such. Same with Chaos I think thats a good idea with marching.

  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 1,598
    Before I read the OP, I have one piece of very solid advice.

    Just check out:

    SFO Grimhammer II.

    It really fleshes out the races and makes them lore friendly, balanced and unique
  • AxelBlazeAxelBlaze Registered Users Posts: 5
    Confederation for Greenskins sounds pretty sweet.

    And yeah, there could be crazier solutions to these problems, but I'm hoping CA actually catches this post & takes these ideas to heart. Many of them would be really, really easy to implement with minimal work.

    Thanks for the Grimhammer suggestion. I personally don't like it, but I understand why people do.
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Registered Users Posts: 2,038
    edited April 2019
    I like your ideas apart from on beastmen any additions should be flc and flc only seeing as only real large complex non reskin unit that is essential is ghorgon.
  • Ares354#1090Ares354#1090 Registered Users Posts: 4,301
    So you ask to give GS yet another LL and for Empire you can think about 1 LL who should be added in wh1 life time ? You are biased and your idea for Empire are poor.

    Very poor ideas for Empire. For GS you ideas are great, wonder why ?!
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