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So what is your opinion of Vampirates DLC now?

2

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  • RikisRikis Registered Users Posts: 1,305
    Amonkhet said:

    Why add Dogs of War to game three when Tilea/Estalia/Southern Princes arent in game three?

    They arent in game 2 either. They can be moved to the southern realms area in game 3s mortal empire map if they are a game 3 dlc.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 10,395
    edited April 2019
    Nyxilis said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Why add Dogs of War to game three when Tilea/Estalia/Southern Princes arent in game three?

    They are the mercenary, raiding, exploring, and treasure hunting faction. Does anyone actually read the lord of the Dogs of War? Fighting on the glaciers north of Naggaroth. They go where the money and opportunity are.

    Border Princes and Estalia are not really that much of a major element of the DoW.

    Tilea is, and it's Tilea that was funding all the treasure hunting, colonization, raiding, privateering and more.

    You can simply add a plot macguffin as to why they've brought their mobile mercenary armies. And then plop them where you want them later. It was unlikely they were going to cram all four legendary lords into Tilea anyways.

    I mean look at Ikkit Claw. Ikkit has spent infinitely more time building the warpforges of Skavenblight, fighting with dwarves or the empire than ever with the LM. But surprise, Vortex plot macguffin has him in jungles, but where he should be on the ME map.
    A load of nonsense. Who leads those mercenary bands? Tilean nobility. To make them go to corners of the planet would be utterly misrepresentative of what they actually are. Game 2 was stretching it. Game 3 is completely misrepresentative to the point that no other race was thrown out of their damned living area before.

    Dogs of War are directly connected to the Southern Realms. Even when they were discontinued the list that was made to represent them was squarely Tilean military. To make them anything other than military forces of Southern Realms would be disconnected from what they were made to be.

    Just because a couple LLs aren't in the best position doesn't mean an entire race can simply be carted off away from their homelands. Game 1 was prime time to add them and game 2 was a begrudging compromise. To add them in game 3 would be utterly disconnected from their entire existence. To make them mercenary only forces would beat the entire point of their own army book.

    EVERY race sends military forces where needed, this isn't unique to DoW. To say it justifies making them a core race in Darklands makes no sense.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • VoxofWarVoxofWar Member Registered Users Posts: 289
    I never understood the love and hype for the lame vapires cosplaying Jack Sparrow anyway...

    DoW is the race that should have been added in the first place ..

    First time I wish a dev would truly lie to us ...

    Sad. Seems no really interesting DLC will come out anymore
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,554
    Crossil said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Why add Dogs of War to game three when Tilea/Estalia/Southern Princes arent in game three?

    They are the mercenary, raiding, exploring, and treasure hunting faction. Does anyone actually read the lord of the Dogs of War? Fighting on the glaciers north of Naggaroth. They go where the money and opportunity are.

    Border Princes and Estalia are not really that much of a major element of the DoW.

    Tilea is, and it's Tilea that was funding all the treasure hunting, colonization, raiding, privateering and more.

    You can simply add a plot macguffin as to why they've brought their mobile mercenary armies. And then plop them where you want them later. It was unlikely they were going to cram all four legendary lords into Tilea anyways.

    I mean look at Ikkit Claw. Ikkit has spent infinitely more time building the warpforges of Skavenblight, fighting with dwarves or the empire than ever with the LM. But surprise, Vortex plot macguffin has him in jungles, but where he should be on the ME map.
    A load of nonsense. Who leads those mercenary bands? Tilean nobility. To make them go to corners of the planet would be utterly misrepresentative of what they actually are. Game 2 was stretching it. Game 3 is completely misrepresentative to the point that no other race was thrown out of their damned living area before.

    Dogs of War are directly connected to the Southern Realms. Even when they were discontinued the list that was made to represent them was squarely Tilean military. To make them anything other than military forces of Southern Realms would be disconnected from what they were made to be.

    Just because a couple LLs aren't in the best position doesn't mean an entire race can simply be carted off away from their homelands. Game 1 was prime time to add them and game 2 was a begrudging compromise. To add them in game 3 would be utterly disconnected from their entire existence. To make them mercenary only forces would beat the entire point of their own army book.

    EVERY race sends military forces where needed, this isn't unique to DoW. To say it justifies making them a core race in Darklands makes no sense.
    If you read the book the Dogs of War have fought on every continent, every empire province. It doesn't change the army 'lead by that nobility' could be anywhere at any time. And it still very much works with the way they've done it in game 2. Or did you catch those Tomb Kings stuck where? Come on, tell me those guys 'were always' there. If you told Borgio there was some great power that would secure his victory over all of Tilea well that guy has the resources, and the mobile army to be there. Fighting for the DoW was more than just in Tilea.

    Southern Realms is a made up name for Total War. Tilea is tied to the DoW. Estalia had no major play in it other than they hired some of them for the DoW. And they employed them, they were just as likely to call up the bandits from their rural areas and that's lore by the way. Border Princes were a scattershot and you know it, up to whatever lil lord there was trying to mimic. If he was one of the lil Bretonnia attempts then mercenaries were not chivalrous! Dogs of War only really have the most to do with Tilea and Tilea was still sending those armies to Lustria, Southlands, Araby, and elsewhere.

    And even then, they have far more outright outposts along their entire trade routes in the Darklands than Kislev which had a farming town that peopel try to justify them being there. Plot macguffins can get them there, and they still very much are one of the races that is designed to be mobile.

    Yes, even for Tilean nobility. That nobility still went on treasure hunts on other continents. Do not forget that.
  • ThomassiniThomassini Registered Users Posts: 847

    Also. Cylostra was fundamental for a race like Araby since permitted CA to introduce CA-characters to the World. So no Cylostra, no Great Sultan and so on.

    What is the point of CA-made Cylostra if there won’t be Araby at all?

    @Itharus summed it up perfectly. We could have had VP as race pack with 2 LLs and then add Araby as another race pack with 2 LLs. Why blindly stick to 4 LLs promise when it’s hard to even find 4 LLs to begin with?
  • gholingholin Member Registered Users Posts: 1,216
    I love Vampirates, but I wanted Araby more. Would have preferred now to have Araby rather than another Undead faction, even if said Undead faction is awesome.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,168
    Crossil said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Why add Dogs of War to game three when Tilea/Estalia/Southern Princes arent in game three?

    They are the mercenary, raiding, exploring, and treasure hunting faction. Does anyone actually read the lord of the Dogs of War? Fighting on the glaciers north of Naggaroth. They go where the money and opportunity are.

    Border Princes and Estalia are not really that much of a major element of the DoW.

    Tilea is, and it's Tilea that was funding all the treasure hunting, colonization, raiding, privateering and more.

    You can simply add a plot macguffin as to why they've brought their mobile mercenary armies. And then plop them where you want them later. It was unlikely they were going to cram all four legendary lords into Tilea anyways.

    I mean look at Ikkit Claw. Ikkit has spent infinitely more time building the warpforges of Skavenblight, fighting with dwarves or the empire than ever with the LM. But surprise, Vortex plot macguffin has him in jungles, but where he should be on the ME map.
    A load of nonsense. Who leads those mercenary bands? Tilean nobility. To make them go to corners of the planet would be utterly misrepresentative of what they actually are. Game 2 was stretching it. Game 3 is completely misrepresentative to the point that no other race was thrown out of their damned living area before.

    Dogs of War are directly connected to the Southern Realms. Even when they were discontinued the list that was made to represent them was squarely Tilean military. To make them anything other than military forces of Southern Realms would be disconnected from what they were made to be.

    Just because a couple LLs aren't in the best position doesn't mean an entire race can simply be carted off away from their homelands. Game 1 was prime time to add them and game 2 was a begrudging compromise. To add them in game 3 would be utterly disconnected from their entire existence. To make them mercenary only forces would beat the entire point of their own army book.

    EVERY race sends military forces where needed, this isn't unique to DoW. To say it justifies making them a core race in Darklands makes no sense.
    Uh, no. They aren't lead by Tilean nobles all the time. They are literally just mercenaries. Tilea just happens to use an almost entirely mercenary force for their army. In the TT anyone could take DoW units as allies.
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,038
    edited April 2019

    Also. Cylostra was fundamental for a race like Araby since permitted CA to introduce CA-characters to the World. So no Cylostra, no Great Sultan and so on.

    What is the point of CA-made Cylostra if there won’t be Araby at all?

    @Itharus summed it up perfectly. We could have had VP as race pack with 2 LLs and then add Araby as another race pack with 2 LLs. Why blindly stick to 4 LLs promise when it’s hard to even find 4 LLs to begin with?
    Right this was another issue with coast lots of wasted time and money could have been saved or they even could have done another race in the same pack like it looked like it might be after teaser.

  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 10,395
    Nyxilis said:

    Crossil said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Why add Dogs of War to game three when Tilea/Estalia/Southern Princes arent in game three?

    They are the mercenary, raiding, exploring, and treasure hunting faction. Does anyone actually read the lord of the Dogs of War? Fighting on the glaciers north of Naggaroth. They go where the money and opportunity are.

    Border Princes and Estalia are not really that much of a major element of the DoW.

    Tilea is, and it's Tilea that was funding all the treasure hunting, colonization, raiding, privateering and more.

    You can simply add a plot macguffin as to why they've brought their mobile mercenary armies. And then plop them where you want them later. It was unlikely they were going to cram all four legendary lords into Tilea anyways.

    I mean look at Ikkit Claw. Ikkit has spent infinitely more time building the warpforges of Skavenblight, fighting with dwarves or the empire than ever with the LM. But surprise, Vortex plot macguffin has him in jungles, but where he should be on the ME map.
    A load of nonsense. Who leads those mercenary bands? Tilean nobility. To make them go to corners of the planet would be utterly misrepresentative of what they actually are. Game 2 was stretching it. Game 3 is completely misrepresentative to the point that no other race was thrown out of their damned living area before.

    Dogs of War are directly connected to the Southern Realms. Even when they were discontinued the list that was made to represent them was squarely Tilean military. To make them anything other than military forces of Southern Realms would be disconnected from what they were made to be.

    Just because a couple LLs aren't in the best position doesn't mean an entire race can simply be carted off away from their homelands. Game 1 was prime time to add them and game 2 was a begrudging compromise. To add them in game 3 would be utterly disconnected from their entire existence. To make them mercenary only forces would beat the entire point of their own army book.

    EVERY race sends military forces where needed, this isn't unique to DoW. To say it justifies making them a core race in Darklands makes no sense.
    If you read the book the Dogs of War have fought on every continent, every empire province. It doesn't change the army 'lead by that nobility' could be anywhere at any time. And it still very much works with the way they've done it in game 2. Or did you catch those Tomb Kings stuck where? Come on, tell me those guys 'were always' there. If you told Borgio there was some great power that would secure his victory over all of Tilea well that guy has the resources, and the mobile army to be there. Fighting for the DoW was more than just in Tilea.

    Southern Realms is a made up name for Total War. Tilea is tied to the DoW. Estalia had no major play in it other than they hired some of them for the DoW. And they employed them, they were just as likely to call up the bandits from their rural areas and that's lore by the way. Border Princes were a scattershot and you know it, up to whatever lil lord there was trying to mimic. If he was one of the lil Bretonnia attempts then mercenaries were not chivalrous! Dogs of War only really have the most to do with Tilea and Tilea was still sending those armies to Lustria, Southlands, Araby, and elsewhere.

    And even then, they have far more outright outposts along their entire trade routes in the Darklands than Kislev which had a farming town that peopel try to justify them being there. Plot macguffins can get them there, and they still very much are one of the races that is designed to be mobile.

    Yes, even for Tilean nobility. That nobility still went on treasure hunts on other continents. Do not forget that.
    Every military force had fought nearly everywhere. But to add them to the game where they have no known settlements is on an entirely other level than anything done with any other race. Dogs of War on their own are not a race. They are directly connected to Tilea and Tilea is the center of Southern Realms.

    What you're suggesting is like adding Empire to game 2 instead of game 1 because they fought in the New World at some point in time. Thus we only get them in their right location on ME. Dogs of War mercenaries were never built to be independent military forces, in fact every depiction of them has them working for someone else. The idea that they fight everywhere is because they're hired by everyone. Never as independent forces from those who hired them.

    So yeah. To add them to the Darklands? Why not add all of the Lizardmen LLs to the Darklands? They sent their military forces there. It's perfect to do it like that because that's the only thing that matters?

    Why are we even pretending that Araby won't come when we can simply cart them off to the Darklands? Doesn't matter that those aren't their core lands, what matters is that we can make up an excuse to put them there and hey they're constantly competing with Tilea over trade routes, Tilea has trade routes in Darklands, Araby would clearly want to take them for themselves. What a perfect excuse! Not like we had a myriad of chances to put them where they actually belong, right?

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 10,395
    Itharus said:

    Crossil said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Why add Dogs of War to game three when Tilea/Estalia/Southern Princes arent in game three?

    They are the mercenary, raiding, exploring, and treasure hunting faction. Does anyone actually read the lord of the Dogs of War? Fighting on the glaciers north of Naggaroth. They go where the money and opportunity are.

    Border Princes and Estalia are not really that much of a major element of the DoW.

    Tilea is, and it's Tilea that was funding all the treasure hunting, colonization, raiding, privateering and more.

    You can simply add a plot macguffin as to why they've brought their mobile mercenary armies. And then plop them where you want them later. It was unlikely they were going to cram all four legendary lords into Tilea anyways.

    I mean look at Ikkit Claw. Ikkit has spent infinitely more time building the warpforges of Skavenblight, fighting with dwarves or the empire than ever with the LM. But surprise, Vortex plot macguffin has him in jungles, but where he should be on the ME map.
    A load of nonsense. Who leads those mercenary bands? Tilean nobility. To make them go to corners of the planet would be utterly misrepresentative of what they actually are. Game 2 was stretching it. Game 3 is completely misrepresentative to the point that no other race was thrown out of their damned living area before.

    Dogs of War are directly connected to the Southern Realms. Even when they were discontinued the list that was made to represent them was squarely Tilean military. To make them anything other than military forces of Southern Realms would be disconnected from what they were made to be.

    Just because a couple LLs aren't in the best position doesn't mean an entire race can simply be carted off away from their homelands. Game 1 was prime time to add them and game 2 was a begrudging compromise. To add them in game 3 would be utterly disconnected from their entire existence. To make them mercenary only forces would beat the entire point of their own army book.

    EVERY race sends military forces where needed, this isn't unique to DoW. To say it justifies making them a core race in Darklands makes no sense.
    Uh, no. They aren't lead by Tilean nobles all the time. They are literally just mercenaries. Tilea just happens to use an almost entirely mercenary force for their army. In the TT anyone could take DoW units as allies.
    OK, now show me WHERE they are depicted as their own race? Their armybook uses Tilea to depict them because they on their own make no sense as a separate political entity. That's why they are written under Tilea to give justification for why such armies even exist. Without Tilea they don't exist as such unified armies, they would just be small bands of mercenaries that never coalesce into anything.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,554
    Crossil said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Crossil said:

    Nyxilis said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Why add Dogs of War to game three when Tilea/Estalia/Southern Princes arent in game three?

    They are the mercenary, raiding, exploring, and treasure hunting faction. Does anyone actually read the lord of the Dogs of War? Fighting on the glaciers north of Naggaroth. They go where the money and opportunity are.

    Border Princes and Estalia are not really that much of a major element of the DoW.

    Tilea is, and it's Tilea that was funding all the treasure hunting, colonization, raiding, privateering and more.

    You can simply add a plot macguffin as to why they've brought their mobile mercenary armies. And then plop them where you want them later. It was unlikely they were going to cram all four legendary lords into Tilea anyways.

    I mean look at Ikkit Claw. Ikkit has spent infinitely more time building the warpforges of Skavenblight, fighting with dwarves or the empire than ever with the LM. But surprise, Vortex plot macguffin has him in jungles, but where he should be on the ME map.
    A load of nonsense. Who leads those mercenary bands? Tilean nobility. To make them go to corners of the planet would be utterly misrepresentative of what they actually are. Game 2 was stretching it. Game 3 is completely misrepresentative to the point that no other race was thrown out of their damned living area before.

    Dogs of War are directly connected to the Southern Realms. Even when they were discontinued the list that was made to represent them was squarely Tilean military. To make them anything other than military forces of Southern Realms would be disconnected from what they were made to be.

    Just because a couple LLs aren't in the best position doesn't mean an entire race can simply be carted off away from their homelands. Game 1 was prime time to add them and game 2 was a begrudging compromise. To add them in game 3 would be utterly disconnected from their entire existence. To make them mercenary only forces would beat the entire point of their own army book.

    EVERY race sends military forces where needed, this isn't unique to DoW. To say it justifies making them a core race in Darklands makes no sense.
    If you read the book the Dogs of War have fought on every continent, every empire province. It doesn't change the army 'lead by that nobility' could be anywhere at any time. And it still very much works with the way they've done it in game 2. Or did you catch those Tomb Kings stuck where? Come on, tell me those guys 'were always' there. If you told Borgio there was some great power that would secure his victory over all of Tilea well that guy has the resources, and the mobile army to be there. Fighting for the DoW was more than just in Tilea.

    Southern Realms is a made up name for Total War. Tilea is tied to the DoW. Estalia had no major play in it other than they hired some of them for the DoW. And they employed them, they were just as likely to call up the bandits from their rural areas and that's lore by the way. Border Princes were a scattershot and you know it, up to whatever lil lord there was trying to mimic. If he was one of the lil Bretonnia attempts then mercenaries were not chivalrous! Dogs of War only really have the most to do with Tilea and Tilea was still sending those armies to Lustria, Southlands, Araby, and elsewhere.

    And even then, they have far more outright outposts along their entire trade routes in the Darklands than Kislev which had a farming town that peopel try to justify them being there. Plot macguffins can get them there, and they still very much are one of the races that is designed to be mobile.

    Yes, even for Tilean nobility. That nobility still went on treasure hunts on other continents. Do not forget that.
    Every military force had fought nearly everywhere. But to add them to the game where they have no known settlements is on an entirely other level than anything done with any other race. Dogs of War on their own are not a race. They are directly connected to Tilea and Tilea is the center of Southern Realms.

    What you're suggesting is like adding Empire to game 2 instead of game 1 because they fought in the New World at some point in time. Thus we only get them in their right location on ME. Dogs of War mercenaries were never built to be independent military forces, in fact every depiction of them has them working for someone else. The idea that they fight everywhere is because they're hired by everyone. Never as independent forces from those who hired them.

    So yeah. To add them to the Darklands? Why not add all of the Lizardmen LLs to the Darklands? They sent their military forces there. It's perfect to do it like that because that's the only thing that matters?

    Why are we even pretending that Araby won't come when we can simply cart them off to the Darklands? Doesn't matter that those aren't their core lands, what matters is that we can make up an excuse to put them there and hey they're constantly competing with Tilea over trade routes, Tilea has trade routes in Darklands, Araby would clearly want to take them for themselves. What a perfect excuse! Not like we had a myriad of chances to put them where they actually belong, right?
    This is not true, not to any remote equivalent to the degree. Some of the armies are a lot more mobile than others and some yes have never fought on the glaciers of the northern wastes. But remember, there was a war where the Tomb Kings fought the Norscans on their home turf, Settra mobilized his army, his lords, and marched them all up there and annihilated the Norscans and Warriors of Chaos who were there. If an army that argueably leaves its homeland the least can go up to an inhospitable area that only a few of the worlds armies have dared enter then the one that is known for gallivanting across the globe can go.

    They have known settlements, once more as stated, they have one of the few lines of settlements actually known in the Darklands. Tileans are the ones who control or fund all the outposts along the silk road. And this certainly didn't stop them from going to Lustria, a loooot. A pretty big chunk of their lore is plundering places of riches. It's a big theme. Stop trying to disconnect what was often played up as a primary selling point of their entire faction.

    And yeah, who hired them. Tilea controls and funds the outposts to trade with Cathay. Plot macguffin. Also, they might not choose all Tilean nobility. That was not their only leaders, while Borgio was. Pizzaro was all about exploration and not a noble. For every Tilean noble you name I can name someone they can use as a LL that's not.

    Why not? Because they're already in game 2 you silly willy. But I guess you're also ignoring that the LM warped their people to Albion the moment they had a reason. If the LM thought Chaos would do some wordly harm in the Darklands they'd dump their entire army there. However, lucky for us, the Darklands are largely inconsequential to them but to Tilea? It's their single largest and most profitable trade route.

    I have not cited Araby, I have cited the DoW. A force that was known for far flung expeditionary forces. Did you ever read their army book? White dwarf articles? The majority of stories are not even in Tilea. There in some far flung land conquering, raiding, privateering, treasure hunting, or colonizing for someone, but useally Tilea. Tilea that place you keep citing them as tied to was the ones sending them to dark places of the earth. Heck, the expedition to the northern glaciers was hunting magical things for Tilea. They are a faction that can, and actually makes sense to venture to far off lands when plot gives reason. They're the one faction that was built for this exact thing.

    So warble on all you like trying to draw lines of absurdity in attempts to discredit because it's pretty clear that you miss a huge portion of what they are in lore and in theme.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,304
    edited April 2019

    Also. Cylostra was fundamental for a race like Araby since permitted CA to introduce CA-characters to the World. So no Cylostra, no Great Sultan and so on.

    What is the point of CA-made Cylostra if there won’t be Araby at all?

    @Itharus summed it up perfectly. We could have had VP as race pack with 2 LLs and then add Araby as another race pack with 2 LLs. Why blindly stick to 4 LLs promise when it’s hard to even find 4 LLs to begin with?
    Right this was another issue with coast lots of wasted time and money could have been saved or they even could have done another race in the same pack like it looked like it might be after teaser.
    They won't do two different races in the same pack, thats bad optics.

    Tomb Kings alongside the Core WH2 game has been promoting four LLs for each race.
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 1,191
    I think it shoul had been a race pack with just 2 LL, but apart from that i like the faction
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Silver Pinacle, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 10,395
    @Nyxilis If you think that DoW don't need their core lands on game 3 map then any other race doesn't need their core lands on map 3 either to be based in it. Araby also doesn't need it. We don't need Cathay's core lands, we can just add expeditionary forces, hell no need Mountains of Mourn, Ogres go where needed, just add them to the Darklands.

    And that is true for any other race. They don't need their lands to be on game 3 map to be present. Just that they have good enough excuse to be there and they can simply be shafted from the games they make sense to be in and put to game 3.

    Also if they have a line of settlements then show them rather than saying I don't know what I'm talking about. They, from what I know, have outposts, not settlements with developed cultures. So yes do go on and show me.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • Infinite_MawInfinite_Maw Registered Users Posts: 1,531


    If you ask me, I’d have not only Araby and DoW instead of them, I’d even take Amazons in their place. VC theme is totally cliche (more than anything else in TWW) and at least two lords seem tacked on. Just my two cents.

    All Araby lords would feel tacked on. Also I have no idea what faction I would like more, especially ones that have never been released. I have a few problems with the vampire coast army, but I like them more compared to Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen and Bretonnia.

    Who knows what problems I would have with Araby, would I hate more than 50% of the roster despite the speculation or or would I hate their campaign?

    Also if you want to talk about lore importance, Luthor Harkon has more plot/lore significance to the main Warhammer factions then anything from DoW or Araby. He also had a largish role in the End Times (quite large considering he never had a model release) in comparison to how some characters never got an ending.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,554
    @Crossil

    You're missing the point on what the core lands mean those races, and the direct theme of that race.

    Dogs of War's main land Tilea is super big on sending out far flung expeditions. The majority of their lore is in fact Tilean lords funding and sending out expeditions and even going themselves. They are not the equivalent of any race you've named. They were designed for this purpose and a reason they primarily tied them to Tilea. It's not just Italy, but because they were a group willing to send out to find new trade routes and treasure.

    Crossil, outposts are basically half the 'capital' areas of the Vortex races. Ikkit in his capital? No. Tretch? Teclis? TicTac? Krok? Alith? It goes well beyond a couple of the TK and these are not even the races built to travel as much as the DoW.

    Which the main point is that the DoW were still designed to be in corners of the world looking for gold, magical treasures, trade routes, colonies, or simply exploring. Nobility or not.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 4,909
    Amonkhet said:

    Surge_2 said:

    I would have preferred it as a 2 lord mini race, or, as a combined pack with Araby with 2 lords for them as well.

    That way we would get only 'real' content, instead of made up stuff.

    They don't combine races like that.
    Clearly not, but they should have in this case. Neither has enough real content to justify a full 4 lords.
    Beastmen

  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,173
    I'm pretty happy with them, especially as the AI will make them act like pirates.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 10,395
    @Nyxilis So are the Dark Elves! Most of their shtick is going out and raiding for slaves or assaulting Ulthuan. Every race has their core lands in the game and deservedly so.

    Individual LLs has nothing to do with an entire race being where they shouldn't be based in. All the ones you mention have their core lands. The Skaven are the only ones that are an exception in that their capital isn't on the map but their under empire pervades everything outside of Ulthuan. Their "core lands" are underground!

    DoW are designed to be based in Tilea, fighting for individual states of Tilea in their power struggles or led on expeditions outside of it by Tileans. I just find it funny that you're willing to ignore THAT part of their design.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,554
    @Crossil

    Except the entire point of the entire race is this theme. More so than the DE. Other than the one city state having skaven issues they don't have primary rivals. Estalia is a joke, the dwarves leave them alone, and the Border Princes are a joke.

    And it's because Tilea was supposed to be sending far flung armies constantly. It's their shtick, their main theme. This is not the main theme of the Dark Elves, or the HIgh Elves, or the Lizardmen or any other army that you've named.

    Tilea is not concerned like the HE of the DE invasion or the Vortex that churns center. They've got now hard on to kill any particular other army like the DE for HE. They don't have some religious hellbend to destroy the world or in general. The primary motivations in the army book is their explorations, treasure hunting, and all that. That is their theme.

    DoW were designed to be everywhere with Tilea being the primary benefactor. While ignoring that more stories are of them fighting in other lands than fighting in Tilea. You can't say that specifically about any other army other then the Greenskins who form up waaghs and move or the DE that specifically attack the HE at Ulthuan.

    So you ignore the fact the army was designed to pick up and go to far flung areas. That was the point. The main point. And they made their lore around that. Not one off plots like for the LM or TK, but constantly.

    I don't ignore Tilea, but you ignore that Tilea IS the reason for the majority of their far flung adventures in the Southlands, Darklands, Naggaroth, Lustria, or anywhere outside the Old World.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 10,395
    edited April 2019
    If Tilea is the reason for their expeditions and their existence then why would they be centered on a map that doesn't have Tilea? Same as why Dark Elves should be centered on the map that doesn't have Naggaroth? If their narrative begins in Tilea then Tilea is necessary for them! To not have it would be disconnected from the very central element of their existence.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 6,269
    DarkLordD said:

    After what Grace told us, does this mean we might never see Araby ?

    Is there hope that they can still be added in game 3 ? And also, what are the DLC factions that are still able to be released on map 3 of warhammer 3 ?

    can someone answer this for me please :) ?

    Game3, it's very unlikely. The map would have to be shaped extremely weirdly to include their lands. There is a possibility they are the pre-order bonus, I guess.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,554
    Crossil said:

    If Tilea is the reason for their expeditions and their existence then why would they be centered on a map that doesn't have Tilea? Same as why Dark Elves should be centered on the map that doesn't have Naggaroth? If their narrative begins in Tilea then Tilea is necessary for them! To not have it would be disconnected from the very central element of their existence.

    Tilea is the reason, but Tilea is not where they're doing the adventure. Duh.

    Because, you really want to make the story about the start? Start that army, have to sail to Lustria before you can do a thing? REally? Is that really the point your'e going to use here?

    No, you heard of a city of gold in Lustria. You're bloody right a Tilean noble showed up, he was told this was a mountain of gold. Huge. He's got his ships offshore, setting up basecamp, and he's gonna plunder these jungles!

    Does this require starting in Tilea? Showing Tilea on the map? Nope.

    We heard their was a magical artifact in the glaciers of naggaroth. Could make me immortal, could fry an entire army, could strike a dragon out of the sky, or something powerful. I'm here, time to explore, fight the locals, and take it!

    Does this require starting in Tilea? Showing Tilea on the map? Nope.

    Darklands, we've been told the Ogre Kingdoms will no longer respect the bribes through their lands cutting off our single largest and most profitable trade way. A magical artifact is held by the DoC here. We've heard the CD have powerful machines, and treasures. Time to come steal it all.

    Does this require starting in Tilea? Showing Tilea on the map? Nope.

    I do not understand how you think the exploration, and treasure hunting group famous for sending expeditionary forces out constantly to far flung points needs to start in Tilea, or even have that on the map.

    It will be there for Mortal Empires, it doens't need to be there for the Vortex plot device. And the best part Crossil? Even if Tilea was there, they might very well only put the one lord there with the other three somewhere else. Maybe two, but I find that a stretch. I don't think Estalia will get a single thing. Border Princes might get one if they do Leitpold as a LL, or even then. Not at all.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,304
    edited April 2019
    Surge_2 said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Surge_2 said:

    I would have preferred it as a 2 lord mini race, or, as a combined pack with Araby with 2 lords for them as well.

    That way we would get only 'real' content, instead of made up stuff.

    They don't combine races like that.
    Clearly not, but they should have in this case. Neither has enough real content to justify a full 4 lords.
    Your gonna get people who get it and will be complaining that their particular race in such a dlc will be getting less content than in previous DLCs (and means that CA is cheapening out on the fans) and they'd end up requiring Lord Packs for the missing units.
  • LolTHELolLolTHELol Registered Users Posts: 1,081
    edited April 2019
    I am a huge vampires fan and very vocal with my support for Nagash and Neferata. However even I am just hating the vampiarets now. They ruined the chances of Araby and DoW making in to game.

    However if Araby comes as a pre-order race and DoW comes in game 3, all will be okay. Nevertheless for the moment I will stop buying every DLC for game 2.

    This news is very disheartening, seeing a race such as vampirates making in game and Araby or DoW not. It is Ghorst vs Neferata all over again.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 10,395
    edited April 2019
    I guess we should cart Dark Elves out of Naggaroth then. Why keep them there when their actual objectives are everywhere else? Like how GW did it in the End Times, just leave Naggaroth and go wreck Ulthuan and the Old World. It's just secondary to their main objective.

    In fact I don't even see why CA bothered adding Naggaroth in the first place. We don't really need it for them to be added to the game.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • SnoopacSnoopac Registered Users Posts: 224
    I wanted Dogs of War to be honest but Vampirates turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Their campaign was probably the most fun I've had in the Warhammer Total War and I really love their army as it has everything I like 1.Gunpowder, 2.Monsters and 3.Tankyness (through numbers). All in all I'm still thrilled about their addition even though I still kinda hold out hope for Dogs at some point. Though honestly I didn't have any interest in Araby though I would have welcomed their addition.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 6,269
    Could DoW be instead a mechanic for all order factions + Dark Elves? Like a mercenary system?
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 30,653
    Xenos7 said:

    Could DoW be instead a mechanic for all order factions + Dark Elves? Like a mercenary system?

    They could work like more fleshed out intervention armies.

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,168
    Crossil said:

    I guess we should cart Dark Elves out of Naggaroth then. Why keep them there when their actual objectives are everywhere else? Like how GW did it in the End Times, just leave Naggaroth and go wreck Ulthuan and the Old World. It's just secondary to their main objective.

    In fact I don't even see why CA bothered adding Naggaroth in the first place. We don't really need it for them to be added to the game.

    Dark Elves actually maintain a land empire. Black Arks are almost more recreation and culture for them than actual military, although they do get used for military purposes.

    Remember... corsairs are kind of a social class.
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