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The Araby Situation, This is probably more GW's fault than CA

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  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,767Registered Users
    Like Loremaster of Sotek said in his recent video, GW has made an effort to distance themselves from real world cultural influences in AoS. But Warhammer Fantasy isn't AoS. The blending of real world cultures, mythology and fantasy tropes into one big melting pot is precisely what makes Warhammer so special instead of just another generic rip-off of Tolkien that blends in with the rest. The fear off offending people's sensibilities by making a fantasy equivalent of some group is ridiculous, someone, somewhere will always be offended by something, that's life. But it's the fans who matter, not randos who've never heard of the game before. I'm a devout follower of Christ but Sigmar doesn't offend me, while Chinese fans are clamoring for Cathay. Make 'em happy and make wads of cash, don't stifle creativity because of oversensitivity in people that tyically aren't even remotely connected to the subject.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • GamgeeGamgee Senior Member Posts: 1,710Registered Users
    Warhammer fantay fans are so edgy lol. Damn settle down. They have to support two games with dlc now is all. Also I am a little puzzled as to no more races for game 2 but alas I doubt it was out of some crazy sjw thing. Probably something legal on gw's part it was worried about. Its also why we didn't get that one dreadfleet guy as a LL for the coasters is GW didn't want it to be a dreadfleet dlc for some reason and speculation is they might not have had full rights to the dreadfleet stuff.

    Never assume its out of malice GW and CA love making money. Perhaps with GW's okay and guidance they could make a new "Araby" like faction for the area in the future? I dunno all I know is I'm sad we only have one cav faction and its Bretonia good two shoes.
  • Shomy9342Shomy9342 Posts: 325Registered Users
    Wyvax said:

    Like Loremaster of Sotek said in his recent video, GW has made an effort to distance themselves from real world cultural influences in AoS. But Warhammer Fantasy isn't AoS. The blending of real world cultures, mythology and fantasy tropes into one big melting pot is precisely what makes Warhammer so special instead of just another generic rip-off of Tolkien that blends in with the rest. The fear off offending people's sensibilities by making a fantasy equivalent of some group is ridiculous, someone, somewhere will always be offended by something, that's life. But it's the fans who matter, not randos who've never heard of the game before. I'm a devout follower of Christ but Sigmar doesn't offend me, while Chinese fans are clamoring for Cathay. Make 'em happy and make wads of cash, don't stifle creativity because of oversensitivity in people that tyically aren't even remotely connected to the subject.

    Indeed. If offending is the problem CA should say that, but when it comes to Cathay Chinese are happy to see it in game three and it makes sense to make more cash out of that. I see a lot of Chinese mods in warhammer total war steam page and even guy who made that Cathay art is Chinese and huge warhammer and 40k fan. CA should be clear on what is going on in the back. Is this just to flesh out rosters of factions that are here until game three will be minor factions along with remaining three main factions(Demons, C dwarfs and Ogres), is Araby going to be pre order bonus, or is this not going to happen even do there is stuff like hints in game and Cylostra that make people think of these factions are possible.

    And like @Orontes said it makes no sense because Arabs are not a race, but ethnicity and these are more part of Arabian nights that even Disney is working and that cartoon(or more its series on toon disney) also had some Araby traits like slavery and all that. Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons having Arab like fantasy countries with slaves and all that and are ok to public.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 880Registered Users
    Gamgee said:

    Warhammer fantay fans are so edgy lol. Damn settle down. They have to support two games with dlc now is all. Also I am a little puzzled as to no more races for game 2 but alas I doubt it was out of some crazy sjw thing. Probably something legal on gw's part it was worried about. Its also why we didn't get that one dreadfleet guy as a LL for the coasters is GW didn't want it to be a dreadfleet dlc for some reason and speculation is they might not have had full rights to the dreadfleet stuff.

    Never assume its out of malice GW and CA love making money. Perhaps with GW's okay and guidance they could make a new "Araby" like faction for the area in the future? I dunno all I know is I'm sad we only have one cav faction and its Bretonia good two shoes.

    Originally, CA said there was multiple teams and that there wouldn't be any effect of Warhammer on Historical, nor Historical on Warhammer, this is just exposing it wasn't true.
  • GamgeeGamgee Senior Member Posts: 1,710Registered Users
    Amonkhet said:

    Gamgee said:

    Warhammer fantay fans are so edgy lol. Damn settle down. They have to support two games with dlc now is all. Also I am a little puzzled as to no more races for game 2 but alas I doubt it was out of some crazy sjw thing. Probably something legal on gw's part it was worried about. Its also why we didn't get that one dreadfleet guy as a LL for the coasters is GW didn't want it to be a dreadfleet dlc for some reason and speculation is they might not have had full rights to the dreadfleet stuff.

    Never assume its out of malice GW and CA love making money. Perhaps with GW's okay and guidance they could make a new "Araby" like faction for the area in the future? I dunno all I know is I'm sad we only have one cav faction and its Bretonia good two shoes.

    Originally, CA said there was multiple teams and that there wouldn't be any effect of Warhammer on Historical, nor Historical on Warhammer, this is just exposing it wasn't true.
    Okay right I forgot that, but my other point stands about legalities usually being the deciding factor in this stuff.
  • Shomy9342Shomy9342 Posts: 325Registered Users
    Amonkhet said:

    Gamgee said:

    Warhammer fantay fans are so edgy lol. Damn settle down. They have to support two games with dlc now is all. Also I am a little puzzled as to no more races for game 2 but alas I doubt it was out of some crazy sjw thing. Probably something legal on gw's part it was worried about. Its also why we didn't get that one dreadfleet guy as a LL for the coasters is GW didn't want it to be a dreadfleet dlc for some reason and speculation is they might not have had full rights to the dreadfleet stuff.

    Never assume its out of malice GW and CA love making money. Perhaps with GW's okay and guidance they could make a new "Araby" like faction for the area in the future? I dunno all I know is I'm sad we only have one cav faction and its Bretonia good two shoes.

    Originally, CA said there was multiple teams and that there wouldn't be any effect of Warhammer on Historical, nor Historical on Warhammer, this is just exposing it wasn't true.
    Even Indypride said that whole two teams is bull.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 880Registered Users
    Gamgee said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Gamgee said:

    Warhammer fantay fans are so edgy lol. Damn settle down. They have to support two games with dlc now is all. Also I am a little puzzled as to no more races for game 2 but alas I doubt it was out of some crazy sjw thing. Probably something legal on gw's part it was worried about. Its also why we didn't get that one dreadfleet guy as a LL for the coasters is GW didn't want it to be a dreadfleet dlc for some reason and speculation is they might not have had full rights to the dreadfleet stuff.

    Never assume its out of malice GW and CA love making money. Perhaps with GW's okay and guidance they could make a new "Araby" like faction for the area in the future? I dunno all I know is I'm sad we only have one cav faction and its Bretonia good two shoes.

    Originally, CA said there was multiple teams and that there wouldn't be any effect of Warhammer on Historical, nor Historical on Warhammer, this is just exposing it wasn't true.
    Okay right I forgot that, but my other point stands about legalities usually being the deciding factor in this stuff.
    Vampire Coast is its own unique problem; the majority of naval aspects of Warhammer isn't licensed to CA, so they would only budge on a few characters, as long as the lore of the dlc is primarily focused on Vampire Coast, not Dreadfleet.

    For Araby there really is no such limitation, they had a Warmaster list, and a ton of lore in different places; lots and lots of interactions with Bretonnia for example. The idea that it will cause 'offense' is the only argument that really could potentially fit, and even then thats flimsy as hell; since Arabic stuff is incredibly common in the Fantasy gaming sphere.
  • baronblackbaronblack Posts: 3,199Registered Users
    I'm italian and the Skaven should offend me in the major degree. Oh yes, in AoS they changed their lore to massive degrees because the rats were a parody of italians.
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,869Registered Users
    edited April 16
    NeoYas said:


    Originally, CA said there was multiple teams and that there wouldn't be any effect of Warhammer on Historical, nor Historical on Warhammer, this is just exposing it wasn't true.

    We kinda all knew that, TBH.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,661Registered Users

    I'm italian and the Skaven should offend me in the major degree. Oh yes, in AoS they changed their lore to massive degrees because the rats were a parody of italians.

    Skaven are a dark mirror of humanity as a whole, its worst aspects. Selfishness, short-sightedness, callousness, ravenous greed and recklessness. None of it is specifcally Italian.

  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 880Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:

    NeoYas said:


    Originally, CA said there was multiple teams and that there wouldn't be any effect of Warhammer on Historical, nor Historical on Warhammer, this is just exposing it wasn't true.

    We kinda all knew that, TBH.
    Its been the worst kept secret.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 880Registered Users
    edited April 16

    I'm italian and the Skaven should offend me in the major degree. Oh yes, in AoS they changed their lore to massive degrees because the rats were a parody of italians.

    Wouldn't it be the Tileans? Then again, Albion isn't much better for anyone of British-Celt descent.
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,869Registered Users

    I'm italian and the Skaven should offend me in the major degree. Oh yes, in AoS they changed their lore to massive degrees because the rats were a parody of italians.

    Skaven are a dark mirror of humanity as a whole, its worst aspects. Selfishness, short-sightedness, callousness, ravenous greed and recklessness. None of it is specifcally Italian.
    I think their origin story, the Doom of Kazvar, is actually Tilean. They surfaced for the first time in Tilea.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 880Registered Users
    The best part is its not even confirmed the Doom of Kazvar is even the true origin. Its really a Joker-like origin story.
  • KelefaneKelefane Posts: 1,117Registered Users
    I wasn't excited about any of the remaining factions anyway. So only LP's coming is music to my ears.
  • Federykx99Federykx99 Posts: 559Registered Users

    I'm italian and the Skaven should offend me in the major degree. Oh yes, in AoS they changed their lore to massive degrees because the rats were a parody of italians.

    On a lighter note, since you're Italian as well, do you too hear "Scappa, compa'!" whenever Skaven break? I swear that's all I hear and I can't figure out what they would actually be saying in English :D
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,975Registered Users
    People like to invent reasons when there are often easier ones. CA wanted to work on the Vampire Coast, they even said as much. They said they stumbled on Harkon when looking into Lustria's lore to build it and fell in love. This is their own words. They wanted to do it. And lets face it pirate themes sell. Their marketing crew probably loved the idea. Undead pirates have been the basis of a billion dollar movie world, and multiple other blockbusters through the days. Plenty of books. It's not a hard sell of a theme.

    More lord packs might very well be they want to get more of the current factions out of the way. If they're only game 2 or crossgame ones it doesn't matter. It means they're shoring up something that gets complained about more than any mention of Araby could shake a fist at. People are on this board every single day complaining they don't have Thrott, Thanquol, Malus, Go-rok, Marius Leitdorf, Elspeth, Grom, Gorros, Moonclaw and a host of others. And just as much about missing units. Ever seen the ghorgon threads? Time and time again Beastmen players on here begging for more lords and units? For a lord pack? Unit pack? These demands are constant and from a large number of players including me. I want Thrott, I want giant rats, I want the Jabberslythe.

    So with a mass of complaints from players as old as game one that easily outpace the demands for any single race you think that just gets ignored? I imagine that weighs more on the minds than if we get Araby or not. Since more lord packs wont be an unpopular thing. Look at the buzz they've gotten out of this latest one? Yeah, in many ways I bet they feel redeemed after Q&tC. And if the next ones are as good I'll love it no matter what races they are.

    And this is all assuming that Araby wont just be the preorder. Which if it is, all this complaining was for nothing anyways.

    The sensitivity part is dumb. It's a dumb point. It doesn't reference modern day culture, it references an older era that even those parts of the world to this very day make musicals, plays, tv shows, books, and movies based around. Simply making djinn is not insulting, or even dressing someone in period clothing. It's what you do with it. And making a powerful army that fights undead monsters for their homeland is not something to bother that. That's just people with no clue, or intentionally trying to kick a bees nest.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 880Registered Users
    edited April 16
    Its more the aspect that the game's dlcs sell better and better than the previous one before each, but that its possible to add the missing stuff in AND get new races. The ones left arent complicated to make.

    I'm italian and the Skaven should offend me in the major degree. Oh yes, in AoS they changed their lore to massive degrees because the rats were a parody of italians.

    On a lighter note, since you're Italian as well, do you too hear "Scappa, compa'!" whenever Skaven break? I swear that's all I hear and I can't figure out what they would actually be saying in English :D
    its 'scamper, flee!'
  • LolTHELolLolTHELol Posts: 745Registered Users
    edited April 16
    This is just a silly theory. There is no source for it.

    I see no reason why Araby should be problematic. Many people love fantasy and love it no matter what part of the world it originates from.

    Do not forget this year we will be getting a live action Aladdin film. Araby race packs could have been timed perfectly with that movie to sell even more. CA has in a way shot themself in the foot by refusing to produce more race packs.

    Now this does not originate form GW or anything it is CAs own fault of working of multiple project and ignoring game 2. That is why we will get LPs adding 1-3 new units in most likely 6 months time. I really wish game 2 had content releases as fast as game 1. This way we would have had all the LPs and more race packs.
  • IconicIconic Posts: 416Registered Users

    I'm italian and the Skaven should offend me in the major degree. Oh yes, in AoS they changed their lore to massive degrees because the rats were a parody of italians.

    Skaven are a parody of Thatcherism.
  • baronblackbaronblack Posts: 3,199Registered Users
    It's what I'm trying to say. If you know the myth and origins around the concept of Skaven (guess what, it's not GW original, but a mix of Hamelin, Great Plague and the Fate of Siena)
    Also, guess how italians were called for over 500 years.
    "Sewer Rats".
    I'm offended by Skaven? Offended by the fact that they capital Skavenblight (Skarogna, in italian), has been a mockery of a real italian city? Lulz, don't make me laugh.

    No, the Tileans are not the only one representing Italy in the setting. Tilea shows up what is actually "good enough with a bit of grimdark". Even the name Estalia was born because of the joke "(No) es Italia", leading to the huge confusion between the two countries (because GW played a lot on that. Remember that Cathayan bannermen are no different from our world samurai, imagine the lulz)
    But the Skaven represents none redeeming feature at all.
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,248Registered Users
    I hate people...
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,473Registered Users
    Shomy9342 said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Gamgee said:

    Warhammer fantay fans are so edgy lol. Damn settle down. They have to support two games with dlc now is all. Also I am a little puzzled as to no more races for game 2 but alas I doubt it was out of some crazy sjw thing. Probably something legal on gw's part it was worried about. Its also why we didn't get that one dreadfleet guy as a LL for the coasters is GW didn't want it to be a dreadfleet dlc for some reason and speculation is they might not have had full rights to the dreadfleet stuff.

    Never assume its out of malice GW and CA love making money. Perhaps with GW's okay and guidance they could make a new "Araby" like faction for the area in the future? I dunno all I know is I'm sad we only have one cav faction and its Bretonia good two shoes.

    Originally, CA said there was multiple teams and that there wouldn't be any effect of Warhammer on Historical, nor Historical on Warhammer, this is just exposing it wasn't true.
    Even Indypride said that whole two teams is bull.
    Well technically there might be two teams, but one of the teams might be an skeleton crew. :)
  • LevettyLevetty Posts: 50Registered Users

    A lot of people are blaming CA for not adding in Araby but honestly I don't think that's the case. I see no reason why CA wouldn't want to add in Araby. The only reason I imagine they're not is because GW doesn't want them in the game. Let's be honest, GW doesn't care for Human factions other than The Empire or Bretonnia. I'm not calling racism but it seems like for whatever reason they only want to focus on the two Western European factions. Even Kislev, the next most flushed out human nation, doesn't get the love that these two get. This is shown in The End Times where all these minor human factions that could have gotten flushed out got off screen deaths. This seems more like a GW doesn't want them problem than a CA problem.

    GW cares about Bretonnia? Somebody should have told the people making the rule books.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,346Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Moved to Chat.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,364Registered Users
    This thread is veering into some strange conspiracy territory.
  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Posts: 1,729Registered Users
    Yeah i'm so glad there will be no araby, last think we need in Warhammer TTW is some fire elemental faction strigh outta Heroes of Might and Magic xD
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 880Registered Users

    Yeah i'm so glad there will be no araby, last think we need in Warhammer TTW is some fire elemental faction strigh outta Heroes of Might and Magic xD

    Why? is eastern based cultures not good enough a setting for a fantasy game...but western is?
  • Federykx99Federykx99 Posts: 559Registered Users
    Amonkhet said:

    Yeah i'm so glad there will be no araby, last think we need in Warhammer TTW is some fire elemental faction strigh outta Heroes of Might and Magic xD

    Why? is eastern based cultures not good enough a setting for a fantasy game...but western is?
    Thanks for clearing up the quote lol.
    Anyway, I suggest you stop answering to Godefroy. He's clearly just here to trigger people and he deserves not to be fed just like all the other trolls.
  • AbmongAbmong Posts: 890Registered Users
    edited April 17
    "There are only Lord Packs remaining for WH2"... Packs... Plural... Sooo that means there are at least 2 more Lord Packs. Awesome!

    Bet of a bummer about Araby, I was rooting to see them and DoW. That probably means all hopes for further expansions into Cathay, Ind, Khuresh and Nippon are all down the toilet too. Unless... Did anyone at CA or GW say in no uncertain terms that they will not be doing Araby? Or was it more of a "we have no plans at this time"... Because if not there may still be some hope that CA and GW will agree to do them further down the line even if it's after main triology is considered done. Better yet Grace may have just been being coy since what she said doesn't technically preclude a Pre-Order DLC for WH3 being a Campaign pack similar to Norsca... She's no Dogbert afterall. :p
    Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Monkey kingdom DLC) :#
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