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The Prophet & The Warlock Master Feedback Thread

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  • SaisioSaisio Posts: 34Registered Users
    edited May 4

    Saisio said:

    Dear CA! Skaven suffers a lot from the major faction autoresolve bonus removal!
    In my current playthrough as Profet of Sotek, on turn 35, note taken after getting 2 provinces automaticly delclaring war against all skaven factions, mostly of the MAJOR skaven clans owns 1 settlement including the minor one! With exception of mors which have 4.
    I for one want that feature back, or give skaven some sort of buff that prevents them from suffer this harsh, take note i made several attemps as profet of sotek is quite hard, through most of the attempts the skaven in lustria suffers hard from the surrounding lizzard factions. *Lore wise skaven brought lustria to almost ruined, hence the rise of the profet sotek! Which eventually lead to the exodus of clan pestilence, that happend after the rise of sotek!*

    In my Ikit campaign, Clan Fester is bigger than I and I didn't even help them getting that large.
    That being said, you as a player aren't down in lustria to stomp down clan fester, as Sotek you start out war with Clan Fester.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,610Registered Users
    edited May 5

    Seems like the easiest way to handle it would be to have the supply line feature affect the upkeep at higher rates the higher tier a unit is. With T1 units getting very little upkeep increase and moving up slightly with each level. That way, it encourages multi-stacks of chaff instead of all doomstacks.

    Have proposed exactly that several times already. Then the "muh sandbox" crowd comes in and says that doomstacking should be enforced because freedom or something.
    Most people never said anything against making elites more expensive so that doomstacks are less gold-efficient, but usually spoke against the hard unit caps, especially your variants.
    Post edited by Canuovea on
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Posts: 726Registered Users
    Clan Pestilence dislikes me for doing hero actions (establishing under-city as Skryre) against Itza. :|

    "In brightest day, in blackest night,
    No faction shall escape my sight.
    Let those who think deniers are right
    Beware my power--Faction Lantern's light!"

    Everythime a faction/race is excluded from the trilogy, these games become smaller. RIP Araby and others.
  • Ben1990Ben1990 Posts: 50Registered Users

    Ben1990 said:

    Tayvar said:

    Saisio said:

    Dear CA! Skaven suffers a lot from the major faction autoresolve bonus removal!
    In my current playthrough as Profet of Sotek, on turn 35, note taken after getting 2 provinces automatically declaring war against all skaven factions, mostly of the MAJOR skaven clans owns 1 settlement including the minor one! With exception of mors which have 4.
    I for one want that feature back, or give skaven some sort of buff that prevents them from suffer this harsh, take note i made several attempts as prophet of sotek is quite hard, through most of the attempts the skaven in lustria suffers hard from the surrounding lizard factions. *Lore wise skaven brought lustria to almost ruined, hence the rise of the prophet sotek! Which eventually lead to the exodus of clan pestilence, that happened after the rise of sotek!*

    The Skaven should not be affected by the "supply lines" mechanic and the same goes for Greenskins.
    Disagree. The supply lines mechanic needs to be refined, but the idea that army spam should in some way be limited is sound.

    Besides, the under empire now allows one to actually feel more like a swarm faction since placing one of the invasion chain buildings gives you replenishment in hostile territory and bonuses Menace from Below summons.
    My idea is that it should be like Brets have with their peasants now. You have something of a limit to how many armies you can go and supply. If you go above that limit, then with every new army you start to pay extra if you do not build stuff like logistic buildings and such.
    That would actually be a much stricter limitation than the current system and so I disagree. Skaven chaff should simply not go up as much in price as higher tiered units and that should really be true for almost all factions.
    Of course that would vary between factions. Greenskins and Skaven would have a higher upper limit while factions that have a lot of powerful units, like Dwarfs, would have a lower upper level.
  • Ingr8Ingr8 Posts: 264Registered Users
    Why don't salamanders have a skirmish option in their command bar? They are utter wank in melee but need massive amounts of babysitting because the cheap tactics of the AI know that they will not run from combat.

    I don't like pausing the game but it seems essential when such a stupid practice is permitted.


    Yes, I damn well would!
  • markusasmarkusas Posts: 112Registered Users
    edited May 5
    Exactly, we need skirmish for hunting pack and also veteran red skilltree doesn't buff them yet.
    When game 3 comes out I want to travel the world from the east to west and invade the western shores of Naggaroth. Make that happen! Also expand map south and make Karak Eight Peaks 10 slot.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,589Registered Users

    Seems like the easiest way to handle it would be to have the supply line feature affect the upkeep at higher rates the higher tier a unit is. With T1 units getting very little upkeep increase and moving up slightly with each level. That way, it encourages multi-stacks of chaff instead of all doomstacks.

    Have proposed exactly that several times already. Then the "muh sandbox" crowd comes in and says that doomstacking should be enforced because freedom or something.
    lol wouldn't stop anyone from doomstacking. It's not like you couldn't still do that. You'd just be able to afford a few armies if you wanted instead of one giant one.
    Doesn't matter to those guys. They want enforced elite spam and if you are against that then you are surely some sort of historical TW fanatic who hates fantasy and should be off playing ToB or R2 or whatever. Yeah, that's retorts I've actually gotten.
    Well that's funny, because Warhammer's tabletop game had also didn't encouraged an elite spam.
  • chakarinchakarin Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited May 7
    Reaper49 said:

    Fix hidden legendary items for vanilla LLs of WH2 for mortal empires. The quests never spawn. Give this items as starting items plz.

    me too.


  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,045Registered Users
    Sagranda said:

    Seems like the easiest way to handle it would be to have the supply line feature affect the upkeep at higher rates the higher tier a unit is. With T1 units getting very little upkeep increase and moving up slightly with each level. That way, it encourages multi-stacks of chaff instead of all doomstacks.

    Have proposed exactly that several times already. Then the "muh sandbox" crowd comes in and says that doomstacking should be enforced because freedom or something.
    Most people never said anything against making elites more expensive so that doomstacks are less gold-efficient, but usually spoke against the hard unit caps, especially your variants.
    Pretty much this.

    As an example, I usually build balanced combat stacks, but when I get access to a new tier of units, I often find that the most efficient way to incorporate those units is to generate a new army, fill it with the higher-tier units that I've just got access to, and ferry that around to my combat stacks, trading the new units for the veteran lower-tier units in my front-line stacks. The end result is that my existing stacks get a boost, and usually the ferrying stack retains enough strength that I effectively have one more combat stack in the end.

    Hard unit caps in a single army would prevent this. Scaling upkeep penalties for higher-tier units would not.

    One flaw I can see is that it wouldn't necessarily encourage creating balanced forces - it might instead encourage either massing cheap units or constructing doomstacks to keep the supply lines down. Mixing could result in the worst of both worlds: having a high supply lines penalty because you have numbers, and the higher-tier units you do have get slugged with a high upkeep increase from supply lines because of it.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,159Registered Users
    edited May 7
    Funny thing is I never suggested this. I suggested staggered supply lines penalties and building based caps on elites TK style. Want a stack with 19 dragons? Build 19 dragon roosts and be prepared to pay up your nose for it.

    Which is how it should be. Elites should require more infrastructure to support them and be cost-ineffecient if spammed.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,045Registered Users
    edited May 7

    Funny thing is I never suggested this. I suggested staggered supply lines penalties and building based caps on elites TK style. Want a stack with 19 dragons? Build 19 dragon roosts and be prepared to pay up your nose for it.

    Which is how it should be. Elites should require more infrastructure to support them and be cost-inefficient if spammed.

    Which is fair, although your example might be a bit extreme: since you're not also getting TK-style free upkeep, I think more than one dragon per building is reasonable. I have no argument in principle against capping non-core units based on buildings, though: the game would probably benefit in several ways if there was a cap on such units based on infrastructure.

    Might need to reconsider Black Arks considering that Dark Elves could theoretically get infinite unit production buildings, but the number they get in practice might be small enough so that isn't a big deal.

    Mostly it's proposals based on enforcing TT-style core/special/rare divisions, requirements, and caps for individual armies that I'm wary of.
  • RengraveRengrave Posts: 2Registered Users
    CA_Ella said:

    Hi, everyone!

    As you may have heard, The Prophet & The Warlock is now live!

    Please post any issues you happen to experience in this thread, which the QA team will be monitoring closely.

    The Clan Skryre Forbidden Workshop cannot be upgraded (even with no mods running on a fresh install and campaign).

    There is no way to level the workshop. When you mouse over the little green bar in the upper left it shows that there are no requirements yet no way to actually trigger that first upgrade. People have said its just hidden and you have to kill 1000 troops, use a rocket, and build the (already built building unique to Skavenblight).
  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Posts: 817Registered Users
    I turned on animated portraits after not playing with them for a long time to see the new units animations.
    The Red crested Skink chief portrait animation does not loop properly, it has a very awkward transition when it restarts compared to other units.
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,351Registered Users
    I've fortunately found my experience to be relatively smooth and bug-free so far. I do have some feedback in case anyone finds it useful...

    I find it really refreshing to see the old AR bonuses gone. Having played so many campaigns in the past, it is wonderful to see some different factions putting some work in. The game seems to have become far less predictable.

    Most importantly, it is good to see non-LL factions no longer constantly suiciding into battles they should win comfortably. Rebellions have a shot at working from time to time. Intervention armies are actually relevant against AI.

    It can be strange to see Arkhan, Settra and others getting wiped out early on, but for a somewhat jaded old player like me it is actually quite pleasing. I can see this being a contentious issue for some, but I am making hay while the sun shines.

    Slight issue with the Skryre secret laboratory thingie… It's awfully easy to rack up warp fuel with a few agents out stealing tech and whatnot. It only took a short while to be sitting on a hundred units of the stuff and having nothing to spend it on. Doom rockets also feel a little bit like cheating against the poor old AI... not that I didn't love the first few times I used one. They are maybe a little too powerful or easy/cheap to acquire.
  • zburanukizburanuki Posts: 21Registered Users
    I will repost here my feedback vortex campaign discussion that I opened earlier.


    I will go straight to the point.

    I have started and restarted about 10 (at least, i think it's closer to 20) vortex campaigns as Teclis on legendary and unfortunately the AI legendary lords don't seem to perform well. In all of my campaigns I see the same things:

    1. Citadel of Dusk no.1 ranking with 3 cities and super elite armies around turn 40. After turn 40 they steamroll all of southern Lustria.
    2. Tor Elassor no. 2 or 1 raniking 7 cities around turn 40 then they paint white the Southlands.
    3. Skrolk confederates with Ikit Claw. In about 5-10 turns after the confederation, Clan Pestilens remains with 3-4 cities with 60 ranking. Then a random Lizardmen faction eat them or most commonly Citadel of Dusk. By turn 70 only some minor Skaven clans survive in Lustria.
    4. Lokhir Fellhart loves to force march himself throughout Lustria and getting his ass kicked by literaly everyone. He managed on 2 or 3 campaigns to reach level 6. His faction dies when he reaches level 4-5.
    5. Saphery destroys Allarielle and Chrace. Every single time!
    6. The Dark Elves always fail in their first ritual, well 8out of 10 the times at least, and they never manage to complete it.
    7. Mazdamundi and Queek continue their rituals but only have 2 or 3 cities and they are around rank 40 in power.
    8. Al the minor factions control the course of the campaign and of course the rogue armies punish even more the legendary factions.
    9. Minor factions lords around turn 70, are about level 10, while legendary lords struggle to reach level 6 because they lose constanlty by minor factions as they have lost their autoresolve bonuses.
    10. Tehenhauin barely survives after turn 40 and that's because I spend my influence to make Citadel of Dusk like him. And then, Khalida shows up to destroy him.

    Giving to the AI absurd bonuses (autoresolve, money, growth, stats and so on) it's an easy and lazy way to improve it, but I understand and it is what it is. The AI legendary lords without all these bonuses, especially the autoresolve bonus, can't handle their challenging starting positions (that is meant for the player, but the AI just can't cope with it), so the minor factions dominate the map and that is extremely bad and unimmersive.

    CA staff or you modders please fix that. Thank you.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,589Registered Users

    I've fortunately found my experience to be relatively smooth and bug-free so far. I do have some feedback in case anyone finds it useful...

    I find it really refreshing to see the old AR bonuses gone. Having played so many campaigns in the past, it is wonderful to see some different factions putting some work in. The game seems to have become far less predictable.

    Most importantly, it is good to see non-LL factions no longer constantly suiciding into battles they should win comfortably. Rebellions have a shot at working from time to time. Intervention armies are actually relevant against AI.

    It can be strange to see Arkhan, Settra and others getting wiped out early on, but for a somewhat jaded old player like me it is actually quite pleasing. I can see this being a contentious issue for some, but I am making hay while the sun shines.

    As long as Settra and Arkhan don't get wiped out all the time it's fine, randomness is interesting.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,045Registered Users
    zburanuki said:

    Giving to the AI absurd bonuses (autoresolve, money, growth, stats and so on) it's an easy and lazy way to improve it, but I understand and it is what it is. The AI legendary lords without all these bonuses, especially the autoresolve bonus, can't handle their challenging starting positions (that is meant for the player, but the AI just can't cope with it), so the minor factions dominate the map and that is extremely bad and unimmersive.

    A good approach could be to take the Empire approach with more factions: LL factions apart from those controlled by the player start with their province complete (except in cases where the starting province is shared with another LL, but even then they can start with more settlements).

  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Posts: 817Registered Users
    edited May 12



    UI bug with Skaven under-empire that persists no matter what I do
    It follows my cursor even in the menu and character skills/research tab
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Posts: 49Registered Users
    edited May 12
    After several hours playing, this is my analysis and things I've noticed. Overall, the patch and expansion added a ton of great ideas, most of which have been poorly implemented due to overzealous designers making everything unnecessarily overpowered for no reason at all.

    SKAVENS
    1. Clan Skryre is WAY too powerful, not just relative to the other Skavens, but relative to most other factions in the game.
    > the units Ikit Claw provides generic bonuses to are already over-tuned from the get-go, but all of the upgrades from the Doom Workshops provide way too large a buff to the already overpowered units. While it's true that Clan Skryre controlled by the AI is laughably weak, playing as Ikit in the Campaign is INFURIATINGLY EASY EVEN ON HARDEST DIFFICULTIES. It's hard to tell where the main problem lies, whether the Upgrades are too powerful, whether Ikit is just invincible (44+ Warp Lightning spam!), or if their Doom Rockets are just too spammable because resources are too easy to come by now. But right now this is by far my biggest gripe and why I refuse to play Skavens until they're fixed. Why does such a stupid powerful faction not have ANY drawbacks whatsoever?! The Doom Workshop should come with brutal crippling upkeeps for how powerful it is!
    > a separate but related issue is that Clan Skryre has so much extra perks going for them that they literally made the other 3 Skaven factions obsolete. There's a difference between making different Factions unique vs. making one faction objectively better than the altenatives. Pestilens excels in all the mechanics (Plague Scheme and PO penalties) that does jack all against the AI (even after the patch made AI affected by Public Order penalties it doesn't do anything notable). Clan Mors is just a vanilla Skaven faction that is penalized until they capture Karak-8-Peaks (unlike Skarsnik who actually have trade-offs that affects gameplay). Clan Rictus relies on the surrounding Dark Elves wanting to sign treaties with Tretch so he can immediately break them, very cool flavourwise, but really shallow in gameplay.

    2. Under-Empire: Very cool idea! I love the concept, and it's exactly what Skavens needed! But just like all the new features in this new update, it's once again way too powerful. It's extremely cheap and easy to establish, and they provide such massive bonuses, and worse of all, the Food buildings completely trivialized the Food mechanic.
    > tangential old news, but just like the Under-Empire, the Pirate Cove is also utterly overpowered, this time inexcusably so considering how this has been common knowledge since release, and it's been...HOW MANY PATCHES since they're out? Why are they still such insane Gold generators? Why can't the AI do something to oppose you?

    3. Warlock Masters are objectively better versions of Grey Seers (Ruin). Aren't Grey Seers supposed to be the most important figures in Skaven society and have all kinds of perks due to being horned?

    LIZARDMEN
    1. Ancient Salamanders are way too powerful for their cost. They have the devastating long ranged power of Hellcannons...while being powerful in melee...while being ridiculously fast.
    > as a side-note, this may be contradictory to the Salamanders being too powerful, but how come they don't benefit from any upgrades at all????

    2. Prophecy of Sotek: It's...balanced? But I don't like how it feels most of the time. Because...
    > Players get a static amount of Sacrifices, which in a gameplay perspective might be balanced, but feels simply awful. Why can't Tehenhauin collect more sacrifices from larger battles and less from small skirmishes?
    SUGGESTION: Adjust the prices of the Prophecy, increase the cost if you must. But allow Sacrifice amount be dynamic. Gives player a better sense of "control" over their progress.
    >Stage 2 -> RATMEN GENOCIDE! All LIzards unite! Stage 3 -> You get a wind spell. Also, the skinks research a bit faster... Once again, it's probably balanced, but it feels like "faster research" and "world war" should be switch place. Like Stage 2 provide half the Research bonus and Stage 3 should provide the other half of the research boost while also triggering a world war. Does this make sense to you?


    AUTO-RESOLVE CHANGES
    1. Great step in the right direction! But...it should probably be slightly reigned in. With the exception of Tyrion, LL factions tends to have crappier starts than generic factions. Despite the crappy start, the auto-resolve bonuses would over-compensate and make them dominate. This change aimed to fix that over-compensation, but outright removing it swinged this TOO FAR to the other side. My suggestion? A happy middle ground, give LL-factions a slight bonus to compensate for their generally crappy start, but not too big as to make them dominate as they used to. When I travel to the Old/New World, I'd like to see some personality rather than generic factions as far as the eyes can see.

    BUGS? (no idea if this was always an issue or new to the update)
    1. The AI spammed all of the Fire Phoenix's bomb-drop on a stack of my units in 2 seconds, and only the first drop did any damage, all the rest the AI spammed appeared to do zero damage.

    2. Not sure how it triggered, but my Corpse Cart was engaged in combat, and after the combat moved somewhere else, the Corpse Cart remained rooted in place. It was still alive, no Status, etc. But it just couldn't move from it's spot.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TL;DR - Clan Skryre OP, Under-Empire also OP (thank god other skavens can use it too), other Skaven factions now obsolete, Salamanders seem to have too much going for them, Prophecy of Sotek feels awkward, and Auto-Resolve was a step in the right direction, but may be too big a step.
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Posts: 49Registered Users
    edited May 12
    So I typed a massive wall of Feedback, and it was posted. But after making a small edit, it disappeared saying it won't appear until it's approved?

    I'm hesitant to repost what I typed as it'd look like spamming, but...the heck? Did CA see that giant comprehensive wall of feedback I sent?


    edit: I'm editing this post solely to test a theory that "editing" a post is what causes posts to disappear and require pre-approval for some reason.

    edit 2: Nevermind it stayed. So did my wall of feedback disappear due to a glitch? I'll repost what I typed later if it doesn't reappear.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,045Registered Users


    AUTO-RESOLVE CHANGES
    1. Great step in the right direction! But...it should probably be slightly reigned in. With the exception of Tyrion, LL factions tends to have crappier starts than generic factions. Despite the crappy start, the auto-resolve bonuses would over-compensate and make them dominate. This change aimed to fix that over-compensation, but outright removing it swinged this TOO FAR to the other side. My suggestion? A happy middle ground, give LL-factions a slight bonus to compensate for their generally crappy start, but not too big as to make them dominate as they used to. When I travel to the Old/New World, I'd like to see some personality rather than generic factions as far as the eyes can see.

    Rather than autoresolve changes, I think the appropriate response would be to do what they did for the Empire and give the LLs better starts when not controlled by the player. Let most AI LLs start with control over their province, or at least with more than a single settlement. This might need tweaking for LLs that start close to one another when the player is one of those (example: playing Khalida in the Vortex campaign nowadays might be just too handicapped if Teclis and Tehenhauin both start with full provinces and have the opportunity to expand into your starting province before you can) but giving LLs better starts is probably a more elegant solution than giving them autoresolve bonuses (even small ones).

  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Posts: 49Registered Users
    Goddammnit the old post I made came back! How do I delete the second one?
    Draxynnic said:

    but giving LLs better starts is probably a more elegant solution than giving them autoresolve bonuses (even small ones).

    You see, I partly agree with you, that the old system where the LL's completely dominated every playthrough wasn't good.

    However the AI only deals in auto-battles, which is horribly inaccurate and never accounts for more intricate things like unique skills, etc. Resulting in often wonky results. I feel that LL's should atleast have their unique perks, faction bonuses, and legendary items accounted for in auto-resolve, thus I wouldn't mind even a tiny bonus

    Not enough to absolutely dominate like before, but enough to represent the things LL's genuinely do possess over generic factions, even if only slightly.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,045Registered Users

    Goddammnit the old post I made came back! How do I delete the second one?


    Draxynnic said:

    but giving LLs better starts is probably a more elegant solution than giving them autoresolve bonuses (even small ones).

    You see, I partly agree with you, that the old system where the LL's completely dominated every playthrough wasn't good.

    However the AI only deals in auto-battles, which is horribly inaccurate and never accounts for more intricate things like unique skills, etc. Resulting in often wonky results. I feel that LL's should atleast have their unique perks, faction bonuses, and legendary items accounted for in auto-resolve, thus I wouldn't mind even a tiny bonus

    Not enough to absolutely dominate like before, but enough to represent the things LL's genuinely do possess over generic factions, even if only slightly.
    Sure, if there's a real justification for a bonus rather than being pure plot armour, then that's fair enough. I'd consider that tweaking the system to take additional factors into account, though - such a system should probably also apply to autoresolve used by the player.

    Ideally, autoresolve results (between AI players, at least) should work out as close as reasonably practical to what you'd expect if the AI actually fought the battle out.
  • DarkLordDDarkLordD Posts: 2,323Registered Users
    Lord Kroak AINT a skink priest ! HOW DARE YOU !!




    >:)o:):*
    Dark Lord D the Fearsome (I) ~~~ First Dark Lord of the Old World.

    --~~ let them hate me as long as they fear me ------------------------- Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, Roman Emperor
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 1,039Registered Users
    CA_Ella said:

    Hi, everyone!

    As you may have heard, The Prophet & The Warlock is now live!

    Please post any issues you happen to experience in this thread, which the QA team will be monitoring closely.

    The only issue I have is that it is too good to handle :smiley:

    Good Job!

    ( Please bring all factions to 6 Legendary Lords and full rosters :blush: )
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