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All skink characters are t3 on TT, just like elves. &RCS are described as stronger than other skinks. He's ap al because he holds an Halberd.
And listing everything a unit is good at is stupid way to say it's op. As this can be done on literally all units in the game.
How about a unit that has ap missle, silver shield, fires in arc and has decent speed? Darkshard. Or a range unit that has vanguard, stalk, shield, decent armor, long range, good ap/non-ap ratio, melee-capacity,and still cheap? Sounds op right? It's ranger, a good unit but far from op.
Basically dodge LZM and SKaven in QB until they stop being game breaking.
Oh god 😂
**** pls stop crying for gamebreaking stuff when its not even been a day since release😂. I beated multiple LM opponents today quite easily, I beated skavens easily( though that was with LM so idk if you count it) I played multiple games today against really good players( friends and clan members) and no faction looked utterly broken, Kroak could use a price increase and WoM cost increase of the spells( especially third level) and skaven with doomflayers a tar too strong, but they are not unbeatbale, I shutted 2 of them down easily in my game against them, just used cav and a Lord( AP lords absolutely shreds them).
They need a tweak, but nothing is gamebreaking here.
You got new things that you need to get used to, for sure, but before calling something gamebreaking could you actually wait a week or 2 ?
And those test above idk what the guy did, but jn my test it doesnt come close to what he showed, phoenix guards win easily, reiksguard and Empire knight tool some pretty good looses, but managed to win handily for equal value.
Stop assiming i played it for a day.
Im not the one who even made this thread, i just totally ageee with it.
If you used VC/VP or lzm/skv it counts for little, if you used other factions than yes do let me know who you played against?
I be happy to use skv n lzm and show you how broken they are, when do you have time?
I used Bretonnia, HE and Dwarfs.
Just other clan Memeber such as Mantis, but its out of the point, the thing is lets wait a bit before saying everything is Gamebreaking( this is a **** big word btw) it is not gamebreaking as Ive defeated them handily, I lost, I won, but nothing utterly broken.
A match between us would not necessarily serve a big point, you have what ? Thousands of victories in wh2 alone ? You are more experinced and would probably beat me, but that would not really illustrate a point, I beated my friend with Bretonnia against his Lizardmen does that mean bretonnia is gamebreaking ?
I don't think so, but there is some things that could use tweaking, like what I mentioned in the post before, but let the community a couple of week and then we will be able to see clearer.
And from what I played they seem strong, tier 1 for sure, but they are not at Vampire Coast level last patch.
the problem and the reason why I tend to agree with Lotus is that it doesn't take a genius to even compare the unit card of say Doomflayers vs Gorebeast. Or realize that a combo like Saurus RoR Spears + Supreme Shield of OO + Shield of OO + TG Guardian aura + Mazda standard is broken. I thought this was already evident with combos like Shieldstone of Isha + Scions of Mathlann aura, now we have stronger versions of those. Now you'll give me the "inb4 if you see it coming you can defeat it!". Have you ever played vs the VC 9 model army? If you see it coming it's very easy to defeat and has at least 2 different approaches to it. It wins vs most "average" builds though.
Or Salamanders which are Irondrakes with 70 speed. They are supposed to be vulnerable to cav charges and need to be protected and in this game they gave them 70 speed. How a salamander runs so fast is a mystery. For balancing purposes they should have 40-50 speed.
Or stacking slows such as Poison + "suppressed" effect + nets from Gutter Runners + effects such as Howling Warpgale which make it really cancer to rush Skaven (we get essentially release Skaven back).
Or the Ark of Sotek which imbues poison on everyone, effectively giving you a 18% ward save aura AND a small degen aura. It's an excellent chaff killer, it has 140 armor so it's immune to most non-AP, it doesn't rampage and comes with very good bonuses. You can easily get 100+ kills a battle with this guy and then you need to factor in terror and the poison effect.
Or another version of Noctilus called Ikit who is a really good melee lord with 100 armor and decent melee stats, has good items/utility and is a spellcaster from a lore that has 3 very good spells in it (HW, Death Frenzy, WL).
Or Red Crested Skink Chief on foot having the following: AP, AL, Poison, Frenzy, Aquatic, 22% ward save item and an active ability +45 MA/+27 MD. Why a guy who was Toughness 2 in TT should have AP AL and same stats as Emp General is a mystery when even Vampire Lords don't have AP/AL. Also if you put him on a Stegadon he becomes a monster in melee, especially with buff spells and effects such as the 30s unique buff he gets make him comparable to Kholek stats-wise. Or you can put him on a Horned One to offset his low armor.
So yea your argument in front of someone setting your house on fire is "yea but we don't know if he's setting it truly on fire or only pretending to"... my answer is that with some things it doesn't take 1 month to realize if they're broken or not.
remeber that skin chiefs are supposed to outduell grail knights and other ridiculous stuff like Vamp Lords.
So GodOfGobboz how exactly did you run your tests? I attempted to do the same vs Phoenix Guard and the outcome was completely different, the Phoenix Guard smashed them.
I did 1v1 to eliminate as many variables as possible, with the AI playing High Elves. They had 1 non-RoR Phoenix Guard and I had 1 non-RoR Doom flayer. The Phoenix Guard didn't brace for the charge because the AI is tactically challenged, so they took the full brunt, but after that they got wrecked pretty quickly. Phoenix Guard won with easily 60% HP remaining and that is a conservative estimate.
CA_Duck#1876Registered Users, CA StaffPosts: 1,679
Thanks for the feedback. We'll be keeping a close eye on their performance.
Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
Having a chariot able to beat non AP heavy cav is ok in theory, but with their small hit box and high armour they could potentially stand being much lower HP, making them great vs non-ap high mass units and infantry when microed, but going down quickly if caught by anything AP.
Having a chariot able to beat non AP heavy cav is ok in theory, but with their small hit box and high armour they could potentially stand being much lower HP, making them great vs non-ap high mass units and infantry when microed, but going down quickly if caught by anything AP.
It is not ok, not even in theory.
Chariots bully infantry, that's what they do. They can do that with impunity and for almost infinite amount of time if microed properly.
Old chain-saw animation for Doomwheel seems legit if you compare it with this meat grind. It looks like someone in CA is fan of both Skaven and Angels of Hell. All this watpstone-doped rats that ride their lethal warp-bikes and smash into pulp anyone who looks at them funny. It is RTS game, not a road movie, CA.
Sorry for beating a dead horse, so to say, but this gets even crazier.
How are you testing this? My results are very different. Just did 4v4 Doom Flayers vs Demigryphs w/ Halberds and the halberds won convincingly even without getting their charges due to the AI. Are you blobbing them up or something?
That image could mean any number of things without some context, and why have doom flayers outnumber the demigryphs for this test?
Having a chariot able to beat non AP heavy cav is ok in theory, but with their small hit box and high armour they could potentially stand being much lower HP, making them great vs non-ap high mass units and infantry when microed, but going down quickly if caught by anything AP.
It is not ok, not even in theory.
Chariots bully infantry, that's what they do. They can do that with impunity and for almost infinite amount of time if microed properly.
On the other hand, they're weak to cavalry...
That's how it should work.
That is why such a unit would have to be brittle, in the same way that ethereal units are hard countered by magic, they should go down fast when pinned and attacked by anything AP or high WS. Especially at the right cost.
Exceptions from the general rules of their class are good for the game as long as reasonable counters do exist.
Sorry for beating a dead horse, so to say, but this gets even crazier.
How are you testing this? My results are very different. Just did 4v4 Doom Flayers vs Demigryphs w/ Halberds and the halberds won convincingly even without getting their charges due to the AI. Are you blobbing them up or something?
That image could mean any number of things without some context, and why have doom flayers outnumber the demigryphs for this test?
Yes, i did a doomflayer blob, because that is how you can most absuivly use them.
And the reason for outnubmering demis is because the doom flayers cost more, equal amounts of gold was spent on both sides.
Of course, take it with a grain of salt, im just showing the tip of the iceberg.
Oh guys also don't forget that they have an ability that when they are in combat they gain +24 armor which also helps against non ap cav as they would deal closely nothing
Do I even need to do the Knights of the Blazing Sun and Empire Knights test. It's so obvious you sent Ikit forward to blob the AI and then wreck it with your death stack. What next? CA should balance around how LegendOfTotalWar plays?
Comments
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0 · Disagree AgreeEven if you could swallow their over performance against infantry, being able to beat cavalry like Reiksguard indeed appears to be a cruel joke.
A major downgrade is needed. They make razorgor chariots look like a toy.
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5 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeAnd listing everything a unit is good at is stupid way to say it's op. As this can be done on literally all units in the game.
How about a unit that has ap missle, silver shield, fires in arc and has decent speed? Darkshard.
Or a range unit that has vanguard, stalk, shield, decent armor, long range, good ap/non-ap ratio, melee-capacity,and still cheap? Sounds op right? It's ranger, a good unit but far from op.
A unit doing its job is not OP
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeI did 1v1 to eliminate as many variables as possible, with the AI playing High Elves. They had 1 non-RoR Phoenix Guard and I had 1 non-RoR Doom flayer. The Phoenix Guard didn't brace for the charge because the AI is tactically challenged, so they took the full brunt, but after that they got wrecked pretty quickly. Phoenix Guard won with easily 60% HP remaining and that is a conservative estimate.
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
9 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeChariots bully infantry, that's what they do. They can do that with impunity and for almost infinite amount of time if microed properly.
On the other hand, they're weak to cavalry...
That's how it should work.
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6 · Disagree Agree- Report
8 · Disagree Agreesorry, couldnt resist.
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8 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeI am really disappointed with the balancing. Instead of having op at launch, balanced after hotfix they give us broken at launch, op after hotfix.
Disappointing.
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeDoom-flayers -1md
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11 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeIt is RTS game, not a road movie, CA.
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0 · Disagree AgreeThat image could mean any number of things without some context, and why have doom flayers outnumber the demigryphs for this test?
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0 · Disagree AgreeExceptions from the general rules of their class are good for the game as long as reasonable counters do exist.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAnd the reason for outnubmering demis is because the doom flayers cost more, equal amounts of gold was spent on both sides.
Of course, take it with a grain of salt, im just showing the tip of the iceberg.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI have no words...
Do I even need to do the Knights of the Blazing Sun and Empire Knights test. It's so obvious you sent Ikit forward to blob the AI and then wreck it with your death stack. What next? CA should balance around how LegendOfTotalWar plays?
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3 · Disagree Agree