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ambush failed, ambush failed, ambush failed, ambush failed, ambush failed...

SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior MemberPosts: 2,069Registered Users
So did I miss something in patches? Im trying to ambush Karak Norn since like 7 turns during that time everyone arround me(Skarsnik) became my enemies Im at turn 40 and couldnt do anything yet. Karak Norn just sits there doing nothing and I cant beat them + garrison.

After massively wasting my time I suicided in them and quit the campaign.


So what the hell is going on here?
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  • FossowayFossoway Posts: 2,025Registered Users
    Some players do not know this, but the ambush stance success chance depends on the location of your army on the campaign map. For example, hiding in a forest increases your chances. You can see the overall % when you mouse over the location.

    So either you were trying to hide on an open field, or you were just very unlucky.
  • HoneyBunHoneyBun Senior Member Posts: 4,397Registered Users
    Indeed.

    One major problem is that the game defaults to travel along certain paths. These are the most open land where ambush is hardest. That makes sense because it means you can move further.

    But it does mean you have to step off the path if you want an ambush to succeed.

    Think of it this way:

    You are unlikely to surprise someone if you stand in the middle of the road.

    They are making an FPS. Who knew a company could have a mid-life crisis ...

  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,069Registered Users
    Never had this problem before thats why Iam complaining.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,714Registered Users

    So did I miss something in patches? Im trying to ambush Karak Norn since like 7 turns during that time everyone arround me(Skarsnik) became my enemies Im at turn 40 and couldnt do anything yet. Karak Norn just sits there doing nothing and I cant beat them + garrison.

    After massively wasting my time I suicided in them and quit the campaign.


    So what the hell is going on here?

    It's been like that since the Dawitide was curbed which makes most Dwarf factions very defensive, that's about a year or so ago. The solution is to plunder Empire towns until you get a Waagh and then bruteforce your way into Karak Norn.

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 6,669Registered Users
    edited May 19
    If you set up an ambush too CLOSE to an enemy or enemy settlement they will have much improved chances of detecting you.

    Generally it works best if you're half your movement radius or more away from them when entering ambush.

    In skarsnik's case you'll actually have better luck ambushing in reinforcement range of YOUR settlement, than trying to ambush in the pass near theirs.

    I actually recommend just sacking some Empire and Bretonnian lands a bit, then getting a second stack and running a deficit for a while to kill off Karak Norn. Easier than doing the ambush game, and both The Empire and Bretonnia are easy targets very early game.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,714Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    If you set up an ambush too CLOSE to an enemy or enemy settlement they will have much improved chances of detecting you.

    Generally it works best if you're half your movement radius or more away from them when entering ambush.

    In skarsnik's case you'll actually have better luck ambushing in reinforcement range of YOUR settlement, than trying to ambush in the pass near theirs.

    I actually recommend just sacking some Empire and Bretonnian lands a bit, then getting a second stack and running a deficit for a while to kill off Karak Norn. Easier than doing the ambush game, and both The Empire and Bretonnia are easy targets very early game.

    Bretonnia no longer isn't, their garrisons are actually pretty strong now.

  • MarkerMarker Posts: 759Registered Users

    So did I miss something in patches? Im trying to ambush Karak Norn since like 7 turns during that time everyone arround me(Skarsnik) became my enemies Im at turn 40 and couldnt do anything yet. Karak Norn just sits there doing nothing and I cant beat them + garrison.

    After massively wasting my time I suicided in them and quit the campaign.


    So what the hell is going on here?

    Are u talking about auto resolve or actually sieging them or letting them attack u while in siege stance?
    Also as said before, ambush near a settlement of your own for bigger army or on a better location ( forest ect )
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,069Registered Users
    So I reloaded the Hills terrain has 50% ambush chance(cant get to higher there), ambush foiled, ambush foiled..and so on tried another 6 turns not a single ambush.


    Bretonnia has now larger garrison with footsquires which give your goblins absolute hell.

    Maybe I should really try attacking empire, I need at least 1 big city for the technology building, it looks like crooked moon campaign is absolute worst now.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 6,669Registered Users
    Gotta combined-arms the squires. Focus a couple units of archers on each of them while they get into the lads then bring the skulkers around the back or sides for winning. The garrisons themselves don't have enough squires to ruin you.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,714Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    Gotta combined-arms the squires. Focus a couple units of archers on each of them while they get into the lads then bring the skulkers around the back or sides for winning. The garrisons themselves don't have enough squires to ruin you.

    You'll still take losses and Greenskins are hilariously bad at recouping theirs.

  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,069Registered Users
    edited May 19
    Itharus said:

    Gotta combined-arms the squires. Focus a couple units of archers on each of them while they get into the lads then bring the skulkers around the back or sides for winning. The garrisons themselves don't have enough squires to ruin you.

    I can win against them, than my army is so beat up the bretonnian army will kill me after taking/sacking/razing the city.


    Update on weird ambush stance: So I got back to my city and ambushed near it the result 4 times ambush foiled 1 success there is really something wrong here.


    Edit: tier 3 bretonnia minor sttlements have walls without garrison.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 6,669Registered Users
    Walls are your friends. Park your archers and face the inside of the city. Shoot the mounted troops and laugh.
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,069Registered Users
    @Itharus please stop with these "strategies"


    So I tunneled arround Karak norn and took grimhold and Ironpick wiped at grimholds garrison, now I have the whole region.

    Goddamn ambush stance feels useless now.



  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,714Registered Users
    You got lucky that they didn't intercept your tunneling with their fullstack and the garrison because that's a fight you can't win in a tunnel.

  • SpesstacoSpesstaco Posts: 9Registered Users
    idk man when i did my lizardman campaign it seemed like it either bugged out or CA didnt know what they were doing. Why?

    Whell i would be walking and then clan pestilence would run up to me out of nowhere into an ambush battle, then they would ambush an army thats been standing still and holding a siege for 3 turns.....it made literally no sense. Then again that Hasn't happened again in recent campaigns so maybe it was a bug
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 6,669Registered Users
    Why the quotes around strategies?

    They are effective solutions for stompin' the limited numbers of foot squires and whittling down any cavalry in a city fight, for the anti-bretonnia line of comments.

    I won't post any more of 'em since you said please, but I do have to say the quotes around strategies makes me raise an eyebrow a bit. What was wrong with them? They work.

  • 42konyo42konyo Posts: 709Registered Users
    Just an FYI in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, the ambush success chance you see is only based around your own ambush success buffs so it can be completely cancelled out by enemy armies with high ambush spotting buffs making the percentages shown on the map a bit misleading.
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Posts: 2,883Registered Users
    Basically what people are getting at is there are two tests.

    One to see if you get spotted in the first place. This occurs at the start of that factions turn, tested whenever an army is in another armies, settlement, agent, whatevers view. Its modified by a base chance plus whatever bonuses that faction has. You want to avoid this discovery, don't go into ambush stance right where they can see you unless you are absolutely sure they'll miss you. Use your own territory.

    Second, when you get run into in ambush stance, thats the test for that percentage you see on the campaign map. You want this to succeed, make sure you dont go into ambush in the middle of the freaking road. Grab a treeline or something.

    In conclusion, dont go ambush directly in line of sight, use your territory, use the difficult terrain. Then profit.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 15,463Registered Users
    edited May 20
    Itharus said:

    Why the quotes around strategies?

    They are effective solutions for stompin' the limited numbers of foot squires and whittling down any cavalry in a city fight, for the anti-bretonnia line of comments.

    I won't post any more of 'em since you said please, but I do have to say the quotes around strategies makes me raise an eyebrow a bit. What was wrong with them? They work.

    Just for the record I appreciate them. If I ever get around to Skarksnik when the GS get their much deserved huge update I'll use them.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • EterlikEterlik Posts: 38Registered Users
    Spesstaco said:

    idk man when i did my lizardman campaign it seemed like it either bugged out or CA didnt know what they were doing. Why?

    Whell i would be walking and then clan pestilence would run up to me out of nowhere into an ambush battle, then they would ambush an army thats been standing still and holding a siege for 3 turns.....it made literally no sense. Then again that Hasn't happened again in recent campaigns so maybe it was a bug

    Skaven and Beastman have a special ability that allows them to have a chance to ambush enemys they attack. So thats working correctly.
  • Tempus_fugitTempus_fugit Senior Member Posts: 1,253Registered Users

    So I reloaded the Hills terrain has 50% ambush chance(cant get to higher there), ambush foiled, ambush foiled..and so on tried another 6 turns not a single ambush.
    ...

    +

    ...
    Goddamn ambush stance feels useless now.
    ...

    As said above, you are missing one of the key parts of successful ambush: remaining hidden.

    You answered your own question: 50% chance for successful ambush is basically equivalent to your army standing on an open plain. Not the easiest place to setup an ambush.

    There are very few suitable ambush spots in the mountains and mountain passes. 50% Is the highest you will probably get unless you actually move your mouse over the tiles and find one that has a higher chance, or says something like "forest".

    To successfully ambush, you must remain hidden and, if you can remain hidden, you THEN have a 50% chance of successfully launching an ambush.

    E.g. Chance to remain hidden 50%, chance to successfully ambush 50%. 50% x 50% = 25% chance to successfully pull off an ambush if army is standing in the open. (this is an example, which will change based on faction and leader traits + bonuses/penalties).

    If you remain hidden but are unsuccessful in launching an ambush, you will get the "intercept" battle prompt.

    If you remain hidden and successfully ambush, only THEN will you get the ambush battle you want.

    Your best bet to successfully ambush is to setup an ambush in a forest or jungle. Hover mouse over tile and check that it is a suitable terrain. Without this, you have a very small chance of ever successfully ambushing.

    Also QFT -->
    42konyo said:

    Just an FYI in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, the ambush success chance you see is only based around your own ambush success buffs so it can be completely cancelled out by enemy armies with high ambush spotting buffs making the percentages shown on the map a bit misleading.

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  • RodentofDoomRodentofDoom Posts: 531Registered Users
    In the mountain passes it's very difficult to manipulate your ambush chance, as there just isn't all that much space in them, try setting it further away from their settlement with a smaller 'bait' force behind you.

    However on the plains west & south, you can set up your ambush so your control zone covers their path of movement but you still retain a +% chance terrain bonus (eg forest).
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,069Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    Why the quotes around strategies?

    They are effective solutions for stompin' the limited numbers of foot squires and whittling down any cavalry in a city fight, for the anti-bretonnia line of comments.

    I won't post any more of 'em since you said please, but I do have to say the quotes around strategies makes me raise an eyebrow a bit. What was wrong with them? They work.

    well I put quotes because you told me archers shoot, like I would let my archers climb the wall.

    The answers are: there is nothing wrong even if I have 286 hours gameplay time and suddenly the ambush doesnt work anymore.

    I should look for the % value on how high the chance in certain terrain is even if there is no other terrain but ambush worked fine in previous versions of the game in the same terrain(which is all Hills 50% the 70% chance mountains are not reachable with your army), obviously because I dont get it.

    The thread can be closed now.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,363Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Closed at OP request.
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