TW3K Legendary character adaptive role/class suggestion

Sizvahstar

Maybe someone has asked and if so I couldn't find it, but here it goes:

I think it's great that any character can become Legendary upon reaching 100 in any of the 5 "talents"(?), Cunning, Resolve etc

My question is that, since it's up to RNG what roles characters you may recruit to your court are, it can be very hard to find a character with the role you need at times - so what if the role of a (generic, i.e. non-legendary) character would adapt upon reaching 100 in whichever "talent" it does?

That is to say, when reaching 100 out of the maximum of 200 in a given "talent" Legendary status is achieved (I assume it is locked in game as well even if you take off an ancillary which put you over the threshold?) and locked down, as well as the appropriate (new) role of the character.

This would give agency to the player and it doesn't seem to be all too easy to achieve. Perhaps the skill tree should be reset and points refunded, or perhaps it adds a layer of depth when a strategist has managed to learn the art of war to the extent that he or she can turn into a Commander but retain the buffs to ranged units?

Obviously a switch between roles where the units are recruitment-locked to specific roles might complicate things, but may I remind you that different factions are said to be able to make use of enemy factions faction-specific buildings and some exclusive unit types? Recruiting Zheng Jiang into Kong Rong's faction will have her join you with her Hidden Axe unit for instance.
I don't know if owning her faction-specific Tribute buildings let's you demand tribute however, probably not.

yolordmcswag#6132

I disagree, as I feel that the character classes are a fundamental part of what makes a character who they are. One of the things I really like about the entire system, is that it makes you have to consider many things when picking a general. Do you pick the high level vanguard you don't really need, or the strategist you so desire but is low level? What if you really need both shock cav and spearmen, but your only champion and vanguard hate each other? What if you have no need of a sentinel right, but you have to put him in an army to keep him happy?

All of these decisions combined is something I really love about three kingdoms. Instead of just running the most effective warmachine, you have to run an actual kingdom, with various feuding nobles who all have their own ambitions and desires. For me I think it will make the game feel really alive and challenging in a way we haven't seen before in total war. Sometimes you must go without a class that you need, as no such general is available to your kingdom. It might also force you to sometimes hire characters whose personality does not match your old character's, or hire someone who has a good chance of being a spy because you need them right now.

mitthrawnuruodo#4895

Not 100% sure about the details, but classes are more fluid than they seem.
Every class has secondary role - e.g. Champions have some skills that benefit ranged troops, or something like that.
You are also able to invest in all of the five stats (via equipment) despite the class and benefit from them - e.g. you can invest in the "authority" of a Vanguard to make them fill in for Commander to some extent.

I also prefer classless systems (e.g. someone like Zhou Yu in the novel played the roles of commander, strategist and possibly sentinel), but from a design perspective finding the the right person for the job is a strategic challenge that actually contributes to gameplay. It has been a traditional responsibility of leaders across all enterprises. It is not worth removing, especially with the mechanical problems with changing classes on a whim that you have yourself figured out. The game is better with the class restrictions.

I would not mind seeing a "class promotion" system via DLC akin to Fire Emblem. Like a strategist at level 6 can be promoted to "War Minister" who is a hybrid of strategist and commander, and open up some new skill options to aid in that role.

Sizvahstar

While I do concur to your valid points, both of you, I disagree when it comes to how "easy" you could swap character roles. In the gameplays I've watched I might have seen 2 characters reach a 100 in a stat during a 50 turn playthrough, and while that does mean 2 out of 6 characters used as generals reach 100, the players did intentionally spec them out in order to reach 100.

Finding the right person for the job or choosing between two persons, neither of which has the correct roles, is still an integral part of the game - and indeed your character can still die, be captured, become unsatisfied and rebel or similar.

Furthermore, having some adaptability won't completely remove the restrictions on your tactical choices - first of all you might not want to change your character's role at all, and it still means you need to make a choice between changing roles or not. Secondly, if you have 3 characters and get to change 1 of them, you'll still be without 2 of the 5 roles, and indeed any army can only hold 3 characters either way.

mitthrawnuruodo said:

Not 100% sure about the details, but classes are more fluid than they seem.
Every class has secondary role - e.g. Champions have some skills that benefit ranged troops, or something like that.
You are also able to invest in all of the five stats (via equipment) despite the class and benefit from them - e.g. you can invest in the "authority" of a Vanguard to make them fill in for Commander to some extent.
[...]
I would not mind seeing a "class promotion" system via DLC akin to Fire Emblem. Like a strategist at level 6 can be promoted to "War Minister" who is a hybrid of strategist and commander, and open up some new skill options to aid in that role.

Good point, yes it would make sense if you could only swap (once) between primary and secondary roles!

IMO the one role that stands apart from the others is the Strategist, as they cannot Duel and don't seem to be any good at all in a fight (unless equipped with a ranged weapon). Of course, you can spec a Strategist to be better in a fight, but the game still won't allow them to Duel.

I do like your suggestion of a class promotion DLC, tying it to a high rank instead of stats means it takes a lot longer for a character (and means fewer characters) will be able to make a career change.

EmrysofAilliau

in my opinion i have always absolutely hated the rng nature of the available character choices in total war games. seems like you never do find the type of character you want with traits that aren't too terrible untill well after you have settled for and invested in someone else.