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"BEASTMEN/WELFS" FAN IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS FOR DEVS: WHAT CAN BE DONE FOR THEM??

Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 921Registered Users
edited May 29 in Feedback & Suggestions
MODERATOR THIS IS FOR THE DEV'S, I POSTED ONE OF THIS ON GENERAL DISCUSSION BEACUSE SOME OF THE PEOPLE LIKE IT. I DO THIS MOSTLY FOR THE DEVS TO EXPRESS SOME IDEAS THAT MIGHT HELP THEM HELP US THEY ARE MOSTLY MY IDEAS, BUT ABOUT HALF OF IT I HAVE RECOLLECTED FROM OTHER SITES (STEAM,REDDIT,YOUTUBE,FACEBOOK ETC).

PLEASE DON'T DELETE.

When i do FAN IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS is to be a conglomeration of ideas were devs can see all ideas on one discussion. so rejoice tell your friend and post your LINKS from other discussions regarding the Empire etc. the bigger this is the bigger the chance you will be heard. also DEVS this is not criticizing we are trying to help out.

EMPIRE: some pretty interesting ideas from you guys were posted there, please feel free to comment there and here.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/239976/the-empire-fan-ideas-and-suggestions-for-devs-what-can-be-done-for-the-empire/p1

GREENSKINS: some very nice input from the players, feel free to look and comment.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/242093/greenskins-fan-ideas-and-suggestions-for-devs-what-can-be-done-for-the-greenskins#latest

Whit that being said please keep in mind some rules i will establish here to help them help us example:

WHAT NOT TO DO: " We Should have ALL Elector Counts available for play each their own faction whit their own unique features like Nurn Should have the Dwarven forge mechanics etc and Boris should have the cult of Ulric etc, and all of them need to have unique units like the long gunners etc"

Ok, this is not realistic considering that when the Empire gets updated it will be a FLC and times is money in the devs world they can't do all for as FLC

WHAT TO DO: "Devs i think if we added a mechanics similar to Vampire count blood like but where you get a Elector count as a Lord should work, also i think we should update Offices to enable offices for Heroes, and we would like some new units Huntsmen,Reiksfoot maybe the missing school of magic, and have a new starting location for a Empire lord."

Ok, now this is realistic this is what we are looking for cheap way to make mechanics and make Empire feel better also the new units would be simple one to do, Reikfoot could be juts Reiksguard but on foot. offices are a overhaul of something already existing. also we are asking for a new position not a whole another faction.

THIS WILL BE A BIT SHORTER THAN THE REST, TRUTH BE TOL EMPIRE AND GREENSKINS ARE THE ONE WHO NEED IT THE MOST and i am sure beastmen will get updated on WH3. as for WELF i don't know but it think there a cross game LL for WH2.

BEASTMEN
The firt DLC for Warhammer1 the first to feature crazy animation like the minotaur roll, the Beastmen to me were an are a blast to play i love their Charge attacks its very high they are also very speedy, and i must say that i LOVE their unique Lore the Lore of The Wild its so offensive and full of attack spells i love it. i like how they implemented the Horde mechanic in them wayyyyy better than WoC which to me is the worse DLC and faction on campaign map. however they are one of those racial types that they are wiped out of the map before they can do some harm. i gave it a bad review because i couldn't do a neutral review, the Beastmen suffered from the mini campaign.

The issue about Beastmen is one of mostly missing units... its roster is almost skeleton like. and some wack mechanics that to me make no sense.

BEASTMEN UNITS- i am not going to include stupid variants like the Ungor handweapons.

TUSKGORS- Well, the Beastmen are a chargey faction a faction that benefits on the charge, well what more chargey than Chariots??? we are missing the lower tier version of the razorgor chariot. but i think this units is a most and to keep it relevant it think it shouldn't never be replaced by the Razorgor chariot, but work in tandem i think the Tusk. Chariot needs to be more fast nimble version, while the other is the heavy hitter, they can have a mounted javelin thrower to make it different.

GHORGON- well this is basically a huge minotaur whit 4 ARMS!, this dude is like aglasscannon from what i hear people for his size he very fast and i think he is Anti-large... so i would prefer to see this unit than the Jabbereslythe.

JABBERSLYTHE- a very weird thing i don't even know how to explain it.... i don't know if it flies? i know it has poison, but to me this monster doesn't fit the aesthetic of the Beastmen.

PREYTON- There mention and there a mini in forgeworld. i like how this unit looks looks like a Deer whit a reptile/bat like body. i like this unit and i think it would be easy to implement using the ammticore walk or the Dragons walk, hell even salamander walk i think fits.

LORDS
Beastmen have a very low choice in Lord types only one, we are missing 2 more. and i think they are needed for variery and they should be easy to make after all they can share the skeleton of the Bray Shaman and the Minotaurs.

GREAT BRAY SHAMAN-lord version of the shaman.

DOOMBULL-Lord version of the minotaurs.


HEROES-As far as heroes they have one missing hero type and have 4 unique ones i must

WARGOR- its the miniature beastlord hero.could be a duelist of the heroes.

Unique heroes are every cool there Slugtongue (putrid like shaman),Moonclaw, Son of Morrslieb (semigod of the moon) , Ghorros Warhoof(centigaur hero) and Ungrol Four Horns (outcast who rose to lead armies, had mutants in his armys), and honestly 3 out of this to me can be a LL in the lore they lead armies except Ghorros Warhoof

SLUGTONGUE- is something not entirely Beastmen like he more like and incarnation of putrefication, his head its a bovine skull and his gaunt figure its teeming whit life roaches,fleas,ticks and worms. a master of the Lore of Wild and Lore of Death.

MOONCLAW- He is a Beastman semi god born directly from the moon he alien like. he also a very strong candidate as a LL he summons a two headed creature that serve as his mounts, he speak backwards, and leaves silhouettes behind him as green smoke, he not probably a LL material since he its something else he excentric he uses Lore of the Wild and Lore of the Shadows.

GHORROS- its just a extremely long lived centigors nothing special about him per say.

UNGROLFOUR HORNS- To me this is my favorite since he came from the lower tier echelon, he was born of human parents and had two faces whit minimal horns the parent left it to die, he ate what he could until he could kill he then got into the manblight tribe and he was bullied... once he had enough he kill in a sneaky attack the Beastlord and the Brayshamman ripped their Horns and place them both on his head, they tried to kill him but he was sly eventually he gather a following and created his own tribe he even accepts Mutants, a bad guy who never forgot his kindred. as such he could even have a unique unit Mutants.He can cast Wild Magic.

LEGENDARY LORDS Beastmen have 3 LLs all on the old world. i would like is Taurox would be on the new world i would love Naggarond to add some variety on that area full of Emo Elfs.

Well, there are 2 left and out of those two one of them is death thousand years before Karl Franz, so that leaves only Taurox The Brassbull which to me is a fine choice not much to tell here he a Minotaur legendary lord whit the skin of brass he a Khorne favorite.

BEASTMEN BATTLEFIELD MECHANICS

So campaign mechanics are not bad per se at least to me they could use some tweak and more powerful effects. but the mechanics that area bit wonky to me are the battlefield ones some Gor have stalk some don't its just messy.

So here some ideas i propose,
1- ALL UNGORS HAVE VANGUARD DEPLOYMENT- some units here have stalk but the only thing that changes are the weapons, which to me makes no sense, my reasoning more weapons make less noise especially moving around in woody areas whit shields, harder to Stalk Ungor S/axe and Ungor S/Spear since make more noise than Spears but still since Ungors are sneakier than Gors they can move ahead of them as such Vanguard deployment. also it will further differentiate the two.

2- STALK REWORK/NO FOREST PENALTY- Ungor Archers and Ungor Spears (to enable this units to a more offensive role since it has higher charge than it S.Spears variant) have Stalk makes sense a spear (normal size) is very easy to move in a forest, and doesn't shine as much as a sword or axe. Centigaurs should have no forest penalty just like Minotaurs i don't remember if they have it.

3- GOR REWORK- Since we moved the vanguard deployment to the Ungors i think the Gors need a slight buff in the charge, health department this is to make them do a lot of damage on the charge and maintain the front-line. while Ungors sneak from the sides.

4- BEASTMEN HAVE VARIANTS DONE RIGHT- Unlike in WH2 there a high amount of worthless unsdielded variants,as and example the Hight Elves roster was inflated whit worthless variants units that offer no advantage ( silver helms unshielded as and example). Beastmen roster each unit even ones that look a like have different stats examples are the Centigaurs variants, Minotaurs, and Gor variants even the lowly Ungor Spear has more charge than its Ungor Shield/Spears i am very pleased whit that CA.

5- UNIT VARIANTS/ADDITIONAL
5a-Ungor Raiders Javelins- i think this units makes perfect sense and it fills many holes left by the Beastmen, one anti-large and the other being another ranged option for the Beastmen which they lack severely, they have the melee stats of the Ungor Raider but the ranged stats of the Marauder Hunter minus 10-15 ranged due to the Stalk they have.

5b- Heavy Centigaur- this unit its a "armored" Centigaur but whit two axes each had they excel on the melee and staying there,they are mean to be used were needed as mobile heavy infantry if you will, of course being armored means it slower than the other 3 variants they are like and in between the Minotaurs and the Bestigors. Minos are anti infantry the Bestigors are anti large this are just and in between whit more units no anti infantry or anti large.

5c-Manticores-i think they are needed since they lack Airpower and it fits them also.

5d-Chimerae-Would be awesome but far as i know they live only on the realm of chaos. it also a flyer.

5e- Humanoids Mutants?- like a weaker version of the Forsaken maybe?

MALAGOR- I mentioned this a couple of times years ago, i think Malagor should fly he could be the first LL that can fly by itself, i think they can add Harpies animations i think its very doable and fans will love it since it will be a first.

KHASRAK- For a specialized melee lord i find him to be very weak.


CAMPAIGN TWEAKS
LORE REPLENISHMENT AND GROW STACKS-The only thing that really unique about Beastmen is the way the reproduce as such maybe we can add that to the campaign in a way that benefits them, i have only few suggestions.
The Beastmen reproduce by three forms, Reproducing whit the far lesser Beastwoman, the second and most common is born out of human parents and left to die near the forest were the Beastmen arrive and take them under their wing and third its that they transform way later in adult life mostly under a full green moon, they are called Turnskin but are not wholly trusted by the Beastmen themselves.
As such since we know that if we can help them grow the horde faster by raiding lands?? when raiding they also get a boost to grow and replenishment? those two could make the very Fragile stack last longer on the field. or what if on human lands you can get cheaper Ungors and Gors? i am just brainstorming. open yo any of you guys suggestions.

EVENT TWEAKS- Morrslibed moon event need to be stronger.

BEASTMEN ECONOMY- I think the Beastmen are too weak because they have the same problem the Greenskins, WoC face their economy sucks as such they get wiped out pretty quickly these factions need alternative ways to gather income if any. a simple fix might be to increase raiding bonuses.

ARMY STACKS- Also to pose any kind of threat i think that for Beastmen clan there needs to be at least 2 army stacks one is too few, i never seen a Beastmen Stack recruit another army stack.

That's it for the Beastmen.

WOOD ELVES

Well, for them them they will be short so far even the devs have said that the Welfs Amber mechanics don't quite work on ME campaign i still use them to me they just need some tweaking here and there. UPDATE ON A CURRENT WH2 Durthu campaign thye need a tweak badly, the mechanics work fine on WH1 but not on WH2 the map its too huge.

AMBER- Well so far the dev's have talk about that you get amber instantly by conquering the territory so if that territory gets conquered back then to me it sound fair. I think big cities Altdorf etc should have 3 amber, and the one that have two Ambers have two build slots. since Wood Elves are late bloomers, confederation doesn't start until the Tree reaches level 3 and you have 15 Amber which is a lot.

WALLED WOOD OUTPOST- To this we can look at history Outpost were basically small temporary fortress sometimes they grew into forts and the towns, Roman were famous for their road works that joined whit multiple outpost and forts the basic outpost was Square whit wooden tree stakes about 20 feet high whit about 5 look out towers and two entrances.

As such i think there should be and upgrade to the Wood Elfs outpost this would be the same map when they are defending but have a small square settlement were they can garrison at least 2 glade guards and have 4 basic archer towers this will enable them to defend their territory better. this will be very important in Mortal Empires were the map is huge and holding territory is key. CA has some incredible artist they can make this outpost like it was grow from whit its walls made of actual trees and not constructed.

WH2 NEW RACES SKILL TREE- I recently started a Durthu campaign and forgot that on the tech tree there no diplomatic option for the WH2 races if it could be added, all of the rest of the races on WH1 have a diplomatic bonus after you research them. however after Norsca i don't know if they can mess whit the tech tree a bit, since it messes up the code.

WORLD ROOTS- i think world roots can be implemented it shouldn't be that hard, world roots are spread all over the world as such maybe there can be a special building build in a big city like Altdorf,Oreon Camp,Naggarond, etc that enables quick transportation to make it balance it doesn't transport them one one turn lets say walking from point A to point b takes 9 turns? whit the building build you need to wait 2-3 turns dependent on distance turns on the city before transporting to the other area. that way Wood Elf armies can restock armies. better than using encamp whit cost a lot. MENTIONED BY GOATFORCE FROM THIS FORUM. i agree but whit some variations.




MISSING UNITS- truth be told they are almost all of them there. they are mostly missing a lord units a hero unit. an some more obscure units from the first edition etc.

SPELLWEAVER- this is your Lord variants of the heros unit. to make it unique i think they should add the 2 unique Lores of the High Elves and The Dark Elves only to the spellweaver and not the hero unit.

SHADOW DANCERS- the hero variants of the Wardancers.

GLADE CAPTAIN- Basically a mini Glade lord in TT they were attachment i personally would like to see them since the mini i saw they wield a 2 handed sword and bow.

WELF CHARIOT- i personally don't see the sense of them, its s chariot and they don't do well on woods but still a Chariot option its nice, WELF suck against armored opponents, especially against shielded archer, i think we could use this chariot massively and i think they should be armed whit the Arcane Bodkin arrows from tabletop which is armor piercing.

GREAT STAG MOUNT- Cool moose like stag that glade lords ride.

UNIT VARIANTS AND TWEAKS TO UNITS- a possibility could be a Eternal Guard whit sword/shield combo. i need cheap option whit a bit more ranged suitability or when on the budget. Also the lone Spear Eternal guard i think needs to have a bigger charge and melee attack bonus since they wield a two headed spear point, similar to Beastmen Ungor spears. also this unit would be used in a more offensive against factions that have poor ranged power.

LOUPI_ recommended a below that there should be a Glade Rider but melee since a factions like Wood Elves who rely so much on speed don't have Melee Cav, he also mentioned that they should have a Hound unit i might add on my part it would be cool and believable if they had a Dryad hound unit these would be lower dryads. he also mentioned that Chariots would fit since there a realm on the forest whit wide open plains.

MISSING ARROW TYPES- i for one found very interesting digging trough found a couple of missing arrows types.
Moonfire arrows- damage to races of order while the Star fire arrow was the opposite plus damage against the forces of Chaos. makes sense why we don't see them they are basically the same. could be added on a lord skill tree?
Trueflight arrows- These are enemy seeking missiles they have homing capabilities.i think the glade lords have them since the arrows seem to homing a bit.
Arcane Bodkins- now this is the one i think they need i would mind a variant in the form of Glade riders or Hawk Riders better if it was on the Hawkriders to have even more to snipe annoying armored opponents or on a WELF Chariot.

LL LORDS- Welfs have one of the lowest Unit LL discrepancy there is only 2 LLs.

ARALOTH- I really like this one its has a humble beginning on how he became such a champion. shield spear, and Bow combo. i really like this dude.my first choice as a third lord.

The Twins of Twilight- are really cool twin sister that fight together whit bows one bow its more antipersonnel and the other anti armor. but i don't know how will they implement this since they fight together. as female i would rather see this two than Ariel i think they are unique. they could had Vlad/Isabella Bonuses.

OREON- since there already the faction named after him, might as well flesh him out and make him unique and Welf for being a archery faction they don't have a archer lord.

ARIEL- looks cool but to me its another female casting lord similar to the Everqueen and Carcasone one.


I mostly do this to the devs and post it on the Feedback and suggestions. but some of you seem to like it.hopefully the moderator will let me post both of them.

Much to my disgrace my favorites races in all of WH1 and WH2 are Wood Elves, Beastmen and Greenskins all three of them which haven't been updated :'(, i know Beastmen will get updated near WH3 i think next big update will be Greenskins as far as Wood Elves i don't know as long as they tweak the amber mechanics and if they can add maybe a third lords i am fine.
Post edited by Unknown6203 on

Comments

  • o0o_Player_o0oo0o_Player_o0o Posts: 8Registered Users
    As I see the beast men having poor time in the game

    As you play as them The background is only 2500 and the army units are expensive

    So they must remaster that problem

    They need at least a sacking option to let them rise up as hordes

    Or they can use the wood elves as a settlement to there kind to help them selfs for the upkeep

    or the can have a settlement up in the north near Norsca to keep it going

    The LL are nice (Thanks CA for that) also the shamans are nice but they need a shaman lords too to be better

    That’s all I can say for now thanks for the post
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 921Registered Users

    As I see the beast men having poor time in the game

    As you play as them The background is only 2500 and the army units are expensive

    So they must remaster that problem

    They need at least a sacking option to let them rise up as hordes

    Or they can use the wood elves as a settlement to there kind to help them selfs for the upkeep

    or the can have a settlement up in the north near Norsca to keep it going

    The LL are nice (Thanks CA for that) also the shamans are nice but they need a shaman lords too to be better

    That’s all I can say for now thanks for the post

    No, thank you for answering. and i agree
  • ThirdeyeThirdeye Posts: 113Registered Users
    Turn Amber should be a ritual currency. Just like other ritual currencies, amber would be generated through settlements, treasure hunts and other dilemmas, winning battles, and also through ritual resource sites. WE preform rituals to grow the oak of Ages.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 921Registered Users
    Thirdeye said:

    Turn Amber should be a ritual currency. Just like other ritual currencies, amber would be generated through settlements, treasure hunts and other dilemmas, winning battles, and also through ritual resource sites. WE preform rituals to grow the oak of Ages.

    i agree.

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