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So now that 3k is out is CA going hard on tww3?

2

Comments

  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,472Registered Users

    Isn't anyone else depressed that any hope for an inspired vision has instead been replaced by the market-led consideration of 'expected risk and return'?

    I got invested in Warhammer because of a hint at there being an over-arching vision for a Warhammer trilogy with as much as CA could possible include, capped with an all-encompassing combined campaign. I even tolerated that this wouldn't be possible without DLC, given CA's were tied to making a trilogy under a time-limited license.

    I despaired when that wasn't the case and it seemed instead that CA were choosing to invest resources in accordance to Sega-Sammy's share price expectations instead.

    And before the usual suspects come out with their moronic 'durr-hurr, company gotta make money'; they have plenty of options, they don't have to choose the most greedy and anti-consumer way of doing it every single friggin time.

    I think the low point here is complaining about CA using a 'market-led' (influenced or determined by the needs and wishes of consumers) model and then saying they choose to be 'anti-consumer'.

    You say so much without really saying anything.

    By all means, you can whinge about people not understanding you and you understand the games industry while the rest of us have no idea... but I don't believe you.
    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 834Registered Users

    They were working on TWW3 for a while, especially regarding models and animation.

    Still hoping for some E3 announcement, the 2021 theories are extreme.

    I dont think they are extreme . Tw2 is still selling super well and i can see that contueing into the forseeable future. They arent going to disrupt those sales.

    At the earliest will be out end of 2020


    End of 2020 is franchise suicide, player already played WH2 to dead they need something whit "meat"(plenty of content) to hold out until that date. not to mention there no more Race packs which to me hold the most "meat" than Lord Packs.

    i think May 2020 most likely.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,005Registered Users

    Nyxilis said:

    It's not like they need most of that team on 3k now. New game team is not a DLC team. All your main components are already there. I mean they'll likely keep a lot of folks to make certain things continue to be smoothed about but there is an eventual shift to the DLC line of things. But no matter what title they're looking at next it's simply better for them to move on to that title. So 3k is likely going to be busted down to a smaller team. Even if they simply intended to follow up with a smaller but linked title.

    They always say that Nyxilis bit truth be told like in any place if they need personnel for crunch time they WILL take personnel from other areas.

    However i think like you after 3k they will have a skeleton crew on 3k and move some of the personnel to more important stuff.
    There is only so much that rings true. They probably do pass around a certain amount but there is only so far you can do till you straight up hamstring the other. This does risk a number of things, it's also more expensive to remove to much team and have them come back and reaquainte themselves with old projects, files, and other things. So in the long run it does not make any sense till that crew is largely not needed anymore.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,092Registered Users

    Isn't anyone else depressed that any hope for an inspired vision has instead been replaced by the market-led consideration of 'expected risk and return'?

    I got invested in Warhammer because of a hint at there being an over-arching vision for a Warhammer trilogy with as much as CA could possible include, capped with an all-encompassing combined campaign. I even tolerated that this wouldn't be possible without DLC, given CA's were tied to making a trilogy under a time-limited license.

    I despaired when that wasn't the case and it seemed instead that CA were choosing to invest resources in accordance to Sega-Sammy's share price expectations instead.

    And before the usual suspects come out with their moronic 'durr-hurr, company gotta make money'; they have plenty of options, they don't have to choose the most greedy and anti-consumer way of doing it every single friggin time.

    I think the low point here is complaining about CA using a 'market-led' (influenced or determined by the needs and wishes of consumers) model and then saying they choose to be 'anti-consumer'.

    You say so much without really saying anything.

    By all means, you can whinge about people not understanding you and you understand the games industry while the rest of us have no idea... but I don't believe you.
    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.
    A market is made up of consumers. See?
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users



    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.

    OK, you're the one making the claim: Support your claim.

    Frankly, I love that Creative Assembly is still catering to strategy gamers (A market that has been niche for years) and continues to support the game for years on out.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,640Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Let's all stick to discussing the OP's topic question, and not get side-tracked by personal differences over other people's opinion.

    The Creative Assembly team has a plan, and that plan includes continuing the Warhammer series to completion. This means basically they wrapping up the final pieces for WH2, while laying out and doing the initial work for WH3.

    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,942Registered Users
    edited May 25



    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.

    OK, you're the one making the claim: Support your claim.

    Frankly, I love that Creative Assembly is still catering to strategy gamers (A market that has been niche for years) and continues to support the game for years on out.
    It's not niche at all on PC. It's actually the most popular genre (because it includes management games and thus The Sims). PC is niche by itself, but CA is a PC developer.
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:



    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.

    OK, you're the one making the claim: Support your claim.

    Frankly, I love that Creative Assembly is still catering to strategy gamers (A market that has been niche for years) and continues to support the game for years on out.
    It's not niche at all on PC. It's actually the most popular genre (because it includes management games and thus The Sims). PC is niche by itself, but CA is a PC developer.
    Ah yes, hence why the Steam charts are dominated by games that are definitely not strategy games in any capacity, even if we want to pretend that management games have any correlation what-so-ever.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,472Registered Users

    Isn't anyone else depressed that any hope for an inspired vision has instead been replaced by the market-led consideration of 'expected risk and return'?

    I got invested in Warhammer because of a hint at there being an over-arching vision for a Warhammer trilogy with as much as CA could possible include, capped with an all-encompassing combined campaign. I even tolerated that this wouldn't be possible without DLC, given CA's were tied to making a trilogy under a time-limited license.

    I despaired when that wasn't the case and it seemed instead that CA were choosing to invest resources in accordance to Sega-Sammy's share price expectations instead.

    And before the usual suspects come out with their moronic 'durr-hurr, company gotta make money'; they have plenty of options, they don't have to choose the most greedy and anti-consumer way of doing it every single friggin time.

    I think the low point here is complaining about CA using a 'market-led' (influenced or determined by the needs and wishes of consumers) model and then saying they choose to be 'anti-consumer'.

    You say so much without really saying anything.

    By all means, you can whinge about people not understanding you and you understand the games industry while the rest of us have no idea... but I don't believe you.
    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.
    A market is made up of consumers. See?
    The difference between a market and a consumer is not analogous to the difference between a forest and a tree. You're intentionally missing the point because your gas-lighting doesn't work otherwise.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,377Registered Users
    Thing is CA have over-delivered in TWW2. The game is complete as is and we're getting more LP's. Furthermore the game and all the DLC have been of really good quality sans the Q&C DLC which was mediocre.

    Hopefully CA take another step up in game 3.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,092Registered Users

    Isn't anyone else depressed that any hope for an inspired vision has instead been replaced by the market-led consideration of 'expected risk and return'?

    I got invested in Warhammer because of a hint at there being an over-arching vision for a Warhammer trilogy with as much as CA could possible include, capped with an all-encompassing combined campaign. I even tolerated that this wouldn't be possible without DLC, given CA's were tied to making a trilogy under a time-limited license.

    I despaired when that wasn't the case and it seemed instead that CA were choosing to invest resources in accordance to Sega-Sammy's share price expectations instead.

    And before the usual suspects come out with their moronic 'durr-hurr, company gotta make money'; they have plenty of options, they don't have to choose the most greedy and anti-consumer way of doing it every single friggin time.

    I think the low point here is complaining about CA using a 'market-led' (influenced or determined by the needs and wishes of consumers) model and then saying they choose to be 'anti-consumer'.

    You say so much without really saying anything.

    By all means, you can whinge about people not understanding you and you understand the games industry while the rest of us have no idea... but I don't believe you.
    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.
    A market is made up of consumers. See?
    The difference between a market and a consumer is not analogous to the difference between a forest and a tree. You're intentionally missing the point because your gas-lighting doesn't work otherwise.
    A consumer is a constituent part of a market, the EU has a market of 500 million people. There are other companies and organisations in a market, however, a market-led strategy specifically looks at what customers want. The fact you attached the term 'expected risk and return' on the end means, as usual, very little. All companies do basic risk and return planning, whether they go for high end or standard products. Like I say, you write a lot but communicate very little.


  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,092Registered Users

    Thing is CA have over-delivered in TWW2. The game is complete as is and we're getting more LP's. Furthermore the game and all the DLC have been of really good quality sans the Q&C DLC which was mediocre.

    Hopefully CA take another step up in game 3.

    I think from what they said about 3K and in the past they are going for more substantial DLC. Which is fine with me.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,377Registered Users
    edited May 26

    Thing is CA have over-delivered in TWW2. The game is complete as is and we're getting more LP's. Furthermore the game and all the DLC have been of really good quality sans the Q&C DLC which was mediocre.

    Hopefully CA take another step up in game 3.

    I think from what they said about 3K and in the past they are going for more substantial DLC. Which is fine with me.
    P&W is isolated and one data point does not a trend make, but given it appears to be successful it could have green lit the idea of more substantial DLC.

    I'm really hopeful that's what the LP's contain, and TWW3's DLC's. Normal sized LP's don't interest me that much. I want some meat.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    Yes, they said in the media release about it that they understand that people want more substantial DLCs. They also mentioned it in the UK DLC release plan.

    If they add a few extra £££s on a LL pack and offer something substantial, that'll do for me!
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 1,587Registered Users

    Thing is CA have over-delivered in TWW2.

    Laughs in Lizardman
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Posts: 8,589Registered Users
    Historical team might move onto their next project which is history.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,377Registered Users
    Sephlock said:

    Thing is CA have over-delivered in TWW2.

    Laughs in Lizardman
    They got 6 units in their LP, got all their lord level Characters, and are currently missing 2 units from their roster. They've done pretty well. Granted Rampage was bad for a long time, and they've got units which are weaker than they should be, but compared to Empire? Stuck on 3 LL, 1 Start position, just offices for mechanics, none of the province units. They've done really well compared to their 4th place counterpart in TWW1. I do acknowledge they're 4th place, though I am biased towards the LM.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,220Registered Users
    my guess is that most of 3k team will splitt into the 3k DLC team and then some into Wh3 or Wh2 DLC team.

    A basic desgin crew will probably think about the next historical game.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 1,587Registered Users
    They're probably working on 3K DLC, and you know there's going to be some nice healthy spacing between the DLCs for 3K and the DLCs for WH2.

    Hopefully they'll at least alternate.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • PlatypusErosPlatypusEros Posts: 16Registered Users
    I love Warhammer. Played since I was a pre teen. TW:W helped me get in to a series of games I've tried many times to learn but never had the patience to truly do so. Three Kingdoms feels like a natural progression from TW:W2, to me. Sure, it doesn't have the same level of uniqueness as Warhammer, but it still manages to make each faction unique and different enough to stand out. As I play, I keep thinking, "Oh I hope this makes it in to TW:W3."

    I don't know CA's inner workings, so as to the OP's question, I have no answer. I would think TW:W3 will be their next 'big' release and therefore a lot of work will be going in to it. You don't need as many people working on DLC as a full new game. My suggestion is relax, wait and see. And play what you find fun in the mean time.
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,942Registered Users

    Xenos7 said:



    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.

    OK, you're the one making the claim: Support your claim.

    Frankly, I love that Creative Assembly is still catering to strategy gamers (A market that has been niche for years) and continues to support the game for years on out.
    It's not niche at all on PC. It's actually the most popular genre (because it includes management games and thus The Sims). PC is niche by itself, but CA is a PC developer.
    Ah yes, hence why the Steam charts are dominated by games that are definitely not strategy games in any capacity, even if we want to pretend that management games have any correlation what-so-ever.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/189660/breakdown-of-us-computer-game-sales-2009-by-genre/

    Here you are, most recent stats I found.
  • CrajohCrajoh Member Posts: 1,456Registered Users

    Isn't anyone else depressed that any hope for an inspired vision has instead been replaced by the market-led consideration of 'expected risk and return'?

    I got invested in Warhammer because of a hint at there being an over-arching vision for a Warhammer trilogy with as much as CA could possible include, capped with an all-encompassing combined campaign. I even tolerated that this wouldn't be possible without DLC, given CA's were tied to making a trilogy under a time-limited license.

    I despaired when that wasn't the case and it seemed instead that CA were choosing to invest resources in accordance to Sega-Sammy's share price expectations instead.

    And before the usual suspects come out with their moronic 'durr-hurr, company gotta make money'; they have plenty of options, they don't have to choose the most greedy and anti-consumer way of doing it every single friggin time.

    I think the low point here is complaining about CA using a 'market-led' (influenced or determined by the needs and wishes of consumers) model and then saying they choose to be 'anti-consumer'.

    You say so much without really saying anything.

    By all means, you can whinge about people not understanding you and you understand the games industry while the rest of us have no idea... but I don't believe you.
    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.
    A market is made up of consumers. See?
    The difference between a market and a consumer is not analogous to the difference between a forest and a tree. You're intentionally missing the point because your gas-lighting doesn't work otherwise.
    I am not sure how “gas-lighting “ is relevant in this context but then I have always doubted my own sanity. 🤭
    I also don’t know if this emoji

    Re op. I agree with others while some personal may be freed up. Ultimately CA will also be working on DLC for 3k as well. Basically doing some concurrent activity. I don’t expect a big surge to WH.

    Should be an interesting next “ what the teams are working on “
    Live your life and try to do no harm.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Posts: 516Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:
    https://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers

    Here you are, even easier and more recent stats. Strategy has two entries in the top ten (One of which is the just released Three Kingdoms), and then doesn't make another appearance until #13 on the list. In fact, of the 89 games on the best seller list, only ten could be realistically classified as strategy (And two of them are the same game).

    Again, there's a reason companies like EA, Activision and UbiSoft have largely abandoned the strategy genre, and it's not because they hate money. The fact Sega/Creative Assembly are willing to dump huge amounts of money in to a small genre is something to celebrate, not whine about.
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 4,942Registered Users

    Xenos7 said:
    https://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers

    Here you are, even easier and more recent stats. Strategy has two entries in the top ten (One of which is the just released Three Kingdoms), and then doesn't make another appearance until #13 on the list. In fact, of the 89 games on the best seller list, only ten could be realistically classified as strategy (And two of them are the same game).

    Again, there's a reason companies like EA, Activision and UbiSoft have largely abandoned the strategy genre, and it's not because they hate money. The fact Sega/Creative Assembly are willing to dump huge amounts of money in to a small genre is something to celebrate, not whine about.
    EA - The Sims
    Activision - Starcraft
    UbiSoft - Anno, Heroes of M&M

    They didn't abandon strategy at all.

    Also lol, how the hell are you doing stats here? In the top ten there isn't a single RPG, for instance. So you would say RPG is even more niche. Except Skyrim.

    My stats are from actual business research, I think they stand.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,608Registered Users
    edited May 26
    .
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Posts: 1,910Registered Users
    Depending on if the Warhammer 3 team is already at full capacity or not they might shift some personel there. A number will probably stay on patching for 3K or go to the 3K DLC team. Quite a lot of them will probably start working on the next historical game.
    "The dog is a peasant and the cat is a gentleman." H.P. Lovecraft
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    I'd say action/shooters have the best showing on Steam:

    https://store.steampowered.com/sale/winter2018bestof/

    Also it's worth mentioning that 'strategy' covers many types of games, I mean, the difference between The Sims and EU4.

    Here are the 5 top selling games for PC 2018:

    https://www.timesnownews.com/technology-science/video/top-5-best-selling-pc-games-of-2018-so-far/313235
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,663Registered Users
    edited May 26
    Xenos7 said:

    Xenos7 said:
    https://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers

    Here you are, even easier and more recent stats. Strategy has two entries in the top ten (One of which is the just released Three Kingdoms), and then doesn't make another appearance until #13 on the list. In fact, of the 89 games on the best seller list, only ten could be realistically classified as strategy (And two of them are the same game).

    Again, there's a reason companies like EA, Activision and UbiSoft have largely abandoned the strategy genre, and it's not because they hate money. The fact Sega/Creative Assembly are willing to dump huge amounts of money in to a small genre is something to celebrate, not whine about.
    EA - The Sims
    Activision - Starcraft
    UbiSoft - Anno, Heroes of M&M

    They didn't abandon strategy at all.

    Also lol, how the hell are you doing stats here? In the top ten there isn't a single RPG, for instance. So you would say RPG is even more niche. Except Skyrim.

    My stats are from actual business research, I think they stand.
    Since when's "The Sims" a strategy game? That's stretching the term beyond recognition. Also, Starcraft 2 is by now ten years old and there's four Assassins Creed games for every Anno title, which also aren't actually strategy games but city builders with some perfunctory combat tacked on. Heroes VII is not only four years old but also already abandoned. Yeah no, when it comes to strategy, those big publishers have largely given up on them.

  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,472Registered Users

    Isn't anyone else depressed that any hope for an inspired vision has instead been replaced by the market-led consideration of 'expected risk and return'?

    I got invested in Warhammer because of a hint at there being an over-arching vision for a Warhammer trilogy with as much as CA could possible include, capped with an all-encompassing combined campaign. I even tolerated that this wouldn't be possible without DLC, given CA's were tied to making a trilogy under a time-limited license.

    I despaired when that wasn't the case and it seemed instead that CA were choosing to invest resources in accordance to Sega-Sammy's share price expectations instead.

    And before the usual suspects come out with their moronic 'durr-hurr, company gotta make money'; they have plenty of options, they don't have to choose the most greedy and anti-consumer way of doing it every single friggin time.

    I think the low point here is complaining about CA using a 'market-led' (influenced or determined by the needs and wishes of consumers) model and then saying they choose to be 'anti-consumer'.

    You say so much without really saying anything.

    By all means, you can whinge about people not understanding you and you understand the games industry while the rest of us have no idea... but I don't believe you.
    I understand the difference a market and a consumer. I think you do too, but this post depends on you not acknowledging it.
    A market is made up of consumers. See?
    The difference between a market and a consumer is not analogous to the difference between a forest and a tree. You're intentionally missing the point because your gas-lighting doesn't work otherwise.
    A consumer is a constituent part of a market, the EU has a market of 500 million people. There are other companies and organisations in a market, however, a market-led strategy specifically looks at what customers want. The fact you attached the term 'expected risk and return' on the end means, as usual, very little. All companies do basic risk and return planning, whether they go for high end or standard products. Like I say, you write a lot but communicate very little.


    You now acknowledging the difference between your use of the term 'market' before and your description of it now, but without an apology, looks worse.

    Lootboxes are a subject for example where there's a strong case to be made that they are anti-consumer. But they make shedloads of money, which is why some companies keep using them: the fact that there is a lucrative market for them does not magically make the argument that they are anti-consumer disappear.

    When I moan about CA taking an approach which I think is soulless, cynical and anti-consumer; the fact a market exists for what they're shovelling does not conflict with my position at all.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,472Registered Users
    Regarding the statistics being linked: you're talking past each other and talking about different things.

    Steams top-seller list is a snapshot, a picture of how something looks 'at the moment' inside of a short interval. It is also looking at individual titles, not genres.

    The Statistica link is for a whole year, but is limited by being US-only and requires a subscription for more details, so we don't know the methodology used and how it has defined what a 'strategy' game is.

    The links to Timesnownews and Steam's 2018 top-sellers are also not genre-based, but are for individual titles. This means it's entirely possible that strategy games are out-selling every other genre; this could be because maybe it's not the genre that is niche, but that each strategy series is it's own niche.
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