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Three Kingdoms Balancing Issue

dennel90dennel90 Posts: 1Registered Users
I had been playing TW3K a lot since it launched, and I can see there are some balancing issues when I play battle. First, archer and crossbow are overpowered. they easily get 75-100k on average. Second, the infamous defensive tower. These things cause about 40% of my casualty in most of the battle that I played. Lastly, calvaries are under power, they got nerfed in their speed and number. When I try to lead them away from spear infantry, they get outrun, plus it also takes them forever to catch up with the skirmishers. The number in a cavalry unit is also a downfall as the current archer damage output; most of the time, 25% of my cavalry unit will get snipe before they get in contact with the skirmishers. I love the game, but these problems need to be fixed for better battle experience.

Comments

  • gbemgbem Posts: 24Registered Users
    idk... han chinese tactics are very very reliant on bows and crossbows... nerfing them would be akin to nerfing legionaries
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Posts: 3,083Registered Users
    Not sure where you follow that cavalry are under powered. Your melee cav have no less than 65% missile block on the weakest melee cav, without commander buffs. With commander buffs that can be 100% for a time and 85% all other times. Melee cav tend not to immediately flat line enemy units.

    Shock Cav on the other hand, cause units to immediately stop existing. They are by far the most powerful units in the game, especially when you factor in skill tricks. Like putting a Commander nearby to up their speed and give them ranged immunity for an entire 20 seconds. More than enough time for them to close that gap, ending the fight immediately. Putting a sentinel nearby for 50% ranged resistance. Putting a Vanguard with scare in front of them so that whatever they hit routs on contact.

    If I go into a fight with 1800 dudes, and the enemy have 3700 dudes, generally the fight ends with cavalry rocking a minimum 300ish kills a piece unless they got wrapped up running down other cav. Archers with 200ish a piece. Infantry picking up the rest with the leaders.

    Cavalry are not slow nor do they react slowly. Exhaustion does equalize things for them quickly though. Just be aware of how close enemy units are of the battle is taking too long. Factor in that exhaustion is going to prevent you from making a clean get away.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
    edited May 27
    Ranged sure can seem OP when you just sit there and expect to tank continued fire from multiple units.

    Sarcasm aside; the claim really has no merit. Ranged is potent, sure, but it's also extremely fragile and only really useful if deployed and used correctly. It also sits alongside just as potent units in every other category.

    As for cavalry being weak; are you kidding me? 3 kingdoms cavalry is hands down some of the most powerful this series has ever seen, unless you're charging them straight into braced spears, in which case the loss is entirely on you.

    Dont expect to play using hard counters and apply some tactics to the battle. They've moved away from Rock-paper-scissors style balancing on some previous titles in this game and honestly the battles are deeper, more engaging and genuinely fun as a result. I hope that they never touch that sorry excuse that is the rock-paper-scissors balancing style ever again.
  • HarconnHarconn Posts: 841Registered Users
    Cav is fine, Ranged may be a bit overpowered, but the real thing is: Why is inf so bad & useless? They need an update. And hopefully we will see an unit dlc soon, because it's my main critic point on this great game: Pretty low unit diversity, especially regarding melee inf.
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  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Posts: 3,083Registered Users
    Infantry really doesnt come into its own until you start getting some of the dragon variants. Than good god are they almightly. Yellow Dragons are basically a 240 man cavalry unit on foot. A rank 10 unit of Pearl Dragons are practically invincible. Azure Dragons get one of the most fun stances in game. Albeit Azure Dragons are still crossbow food.
  • ParaffinParaffin Posts: 45Registered Users
    I'm enjoying the strength of my archers in this game, but then I've always been a fan of archers in historical-based games. I would hate to see them nerfed.

    I don't feel cav are underpowered in this game either. Playing on Records mode, I just have to be careful about fatigue and not run them all over the battle map.

    I'm unsure about melee infantry, but I haven't played long enough yet to see the more elite units. I'm assuming the game follows typical strategy game conventions of giving you crap infantry at the beginning, with powerful upgrades later.
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,675Registered Users
    edited May 27
    Archers need a reduction to armor piercing. Both crossbows and archers need a reduction to accuracy when they are firing in an arc or at extreme range. They are not as bad as they seem. As others have said you can nullify them with generals' skills and formations.

    Towers definitely need to be nerfed. I suggest using fire arrows to destroy them before you assault near them.

    Cavalry might need some tweaking on the fatigue curve. But they are definitely not underpowered. They are reminiscent of Medieval 2 cavalry. They can delete melee infantry or unbraced spears, if you form them up properly and charge. Charging them at braced or wall of spears of course is equally suicidal. This game's elite cavalry have the unique benefit of ranged defense. Jade Dragons I think have 50% ranged defense which is gloriously useful.

    The one unit that needs to be rebalanced (or just nerfed) are the Ji militia. I have done a bunch of tests with them. They nearly mirror the output of Heavy Ji Infantry and Protectors of Heaven that are way more expensive than them. Part of the reason Cav may seem underpowered to you is because AI brings hordes of these posers.

    And Protectors of Heaven probably need a slight boost.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
    Archer and crossbow AP are fine; sure they can do a lot of damage, but it also needs to be directed and concentrated on order to be any sort of effective. The balance may seem off to someone trying to tank ranged damage, but that's not how it works here and that's not an issue; ranged is an effective tool and most certainly not overpowered. The problem arises if you try to ignore ranged and insist on simply tanking their fire, which can be done due to their relatively low ammo, but is a costly idea since you'll be inundated by arrow fire. Nerfing it would shift a pretty good balance towards the stale old rock-paper-scissors melee meta from Warhammer

    Infantry itself is quite powerful, but only if used correctly. These are mostly militia with slightly better trained troops thrown in here and there. Spears will absolutely devastate cavalry when positioned and bracing and melee infantry such as swords make for excellent frontline combatants that can get into and win the melee fight. Just don't expect the sort of shallow rock paper scissors unit matching that works in Warhammer. Saber militia will obviously lose to the better trained and equipped spear guards, while Ji equipped units will be much better all rounders due to their greater effectiveness against armour (all of which is mentioned in their unit cards). The balance here is much more complex than just matching unit types, since each individual unit, even within the same retinue type, has substantial nuance in how it's best used and one can't just, for example, countercharge cavalry with spears and expect them to win.

    A small note on the era. The armour here is mostly lamellar leather with even the best armour being of relatively poor quality unless you go to the absolute best (which was only available to a select few individuals). The bows are powerful composite bows and the crossbows also have greater draw than their European counterparts. This is the reason that ranged seems so powerful. The damage they do is very much in keeping with the era. Warfare in general was dominated by heavily armoured cavalry and ranged troops.

    The issue with towers is a bug; the towers for minor towns and resource towns do 1000 AP damage, which, combined with their large overlapping fields of fire makes them all sorts of OP.
  • ComradCommodoreComradCommodore Senior Member Posts: 420Registered Users
    I think the game is fine as is honestly. Once the infantry lines clash in my battles I just target their archers with my own , I never have an issue with them

    In regards to the defensive towers , why don't you starve then out for a couple of turns , or bring trebuchets...the towers are supposed to be a deterrent for rushing into a city un prepared
  • SASColferSASColfer Junior Member Posts: 64Registered Users
    Have to admit I find the towers OP. They absolutely decimate cavalry. I think it's so they can damage generals but I'd say it definitely needs some work.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
    edited May 27

    I think the game is fine as is honestly. Once the infantry lines clash in my battles I just target their archers with my own , I never have an issue with them

    In regards to the defensive towers , why don't you starve then out for a couple of turns , or bring trebuchets...the towers are supposed to be a deterrent for rushing into a city un prepared

    The problem actually comes from a single type of tower (yes there's multiple types) that's found in the minor towns and resource towns. To cut a long story short, most towers' DPS comes to about 150-160ish. Now from the looks of it, the tower was supposed to have a DPS of 150 as well (very much balanced and in line with its role and location).

    Problem is that they left in a wee bit of a typo in the damage department; see, they added in an extra 0; the 100 AP damage of the tower became 1000 AP damage, turning these humble wooden structures into medieval Chinese DShKs with a DPS of 600.
  • DontTouchMyHoHosDontTouchMyHoHos Posts: 233Registered Users
    edited May 27
    SASColfer said:

    Have to admit I find the towers OP. They absolutely decimate cavalry. I think it's so they can damage generals but I'd say it definitely needs some work.

    Use Trebuchet or fire arrows to take them out with xbowmen with 250 range. There are ways to easily counter it, you have to actually use the different units, generals, and formations working together. As Fear pointed out, you have to really use all the units combined. Cav can seem op but if you are playing human vs human who would protect the archers with formations you can easily stop a cav charge and make it really hard to rely on cav. There are numerous ways to deal with all the different battles and in campaign you have to look at the composition of the army and find a fitting composition to deal with, but since the Ai are bad at protecting their range it is extremely easy to charge them down with cav then send the raiders into the back of melee with wedge formation decimating them. Horse units are definitely the strongest units in the game if used properly and they get to use their abilities, but then if you get heavy xbowman to shoot them down and they dont have range protection they get melted due to lack of numbers, if they had bigger numbers it would be broken for sure.

    Another thing you can do to deal with archers is set up in the forest and bait them closer with a General outside to show where you are. Once they are close enough for melee to engage without being shot in you bring Horse units in on the archers.

    The thing is if you go vanguard, commander for the protection for range and speed boost for cavalry, your option is strategist or champion and sentinel. If you dont go strategist you lack the range units, and if you go stragtegist you lack melee units and so a champion would easily counter your cavalry agenda.
  • EmrysofAilliauEmrysofAilliau Posts: 11Registered Users
    i find the distance cavalry need to be from their target to initiate a charge to be way to short. just played a battle where i had some melee cavalry tied up on 2 heroes and was charging in with ji militia, like 10 meters away from contact the melee cav abandoned the heroes and charged the militia with a massive amount of casualties to the militia. in less than 10 meters from a total standstill. that is kinda lame.
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