Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

I love this game, but..

KhrasarKhrasar Posts: 7Registered Users
As a RTK fan, I really like the Romance of Heroes than Total War side of it. In which I think this game lack those features, much like they did in Shogun (Sengoku), and I do not like how they did to them. Despite there is an option to choose between Romance and Classic. But the difference is just with a single hero unit or companions.

Sure.. this game did a simple storyline like the fictional Diao Chan, which leads to the death of Dong Zhuo. But I mean it is really a major tale in Three Kingdoms! How did they mess this one crucial event? They did not tell that Lu Bu kills Dong Zhuo. And conflict that affect, in which would cast Lu Bu and his loyals to exile, then roam around central plains that causes Cao Cao to chase after him. Then a tale about Lu Bu almost killed Cao Cao, also the betrayal of Chen Gong. (to my disappointment Diao Chan and Chen Gong do not have their own model).

I really love how Koei's Romance Of the Three Kingdoms respect events in Three Kingdoms, they did tales and stories in detail, and how that event leads to change in many factions. They even respect to tell tales like Xiahou Dun's eye in detail, Dian Wei's last stand, and Cao Ang's sacrifice.

This TK game lack of stories that unfold the rivalries between Cao and Yuan, as they share good amount of ruse, betrayals, strategies and tactics. And how Yuans split into 2, and the infamous manipulation dramas.

The tale of poor Gongsun Zan betrayed by his closest friends and even his own close relatives. Then his death.

It lacks stories of how Liu Bei and Cao Cao in treaty of defeating Lu Bu, and the infamous desperate siege as supplies run low, then flooding of Xiapi. Lu Bu being captured and executed, and how Zhang Liao ends up under Cao's ranks. Some time after when crisis for power comes, Cao Cao invades Liu Bei, in which leads to Clash at Guandu somewhere else, then soon after the migration of Liu Bei, and how Zhao Yun ends up in Liu's ranks, then the infamous tale of Zhao Yun saving A Dou's life in the middle of Cao Cao's army.

It lack the important key stories of how Sun Jian took the Imperial Seal, then the rivalries between Sun and Liu Biao, also the infamous Sun Jian crushed to death via deception. Then his son seek protection under Yuan Shu that costs an imperial seal, and that makes him delusional for Emperor's Position.

...the Three Visits
...Battle at the Red Cliff
...The Burning Red Sea
...Phoenix Down
...Establishment of Shu-Han
...etc etc etc

EVEN if this game is the best Total War they have ever made, I think it is tasteless like stale bread. They do not add any spreadings, expected me to toast the bread and eat it.

I understand the Sandbox genre, but I like Koei's idea of sandbox even more. why? because their game makes me as a player curious for unlocking more stories in-game, and whether I want to change the fate or follow the story is my own choice. And I feel CA is just being disrespectful of these great tales, they ignore such important feature that revolves in Three Kingdoms. I believe those DLC that you announced are just another empty stale sandbox (or are they?)

who the heck is Zheng Jiang? I know Zhang Yan, the mountain bandit.

I also wish they put models on these important characters:
- Yan Liang
- Wen Chou
- Pang De
- Gongsun Xu
- Diao Chan
- Chen Gong
- Zhao Cang
- Li Dian
- Guo Jia
- Xun Yu
- Xun You
- Cao Ren
- Sun Qian (the diplomat)
- Zhang Zhao
- Zhou Tai
- Zhuge Jin
- Lu Meng
- Gan Ning
- Lu Su
- Shamoke
- Gao Shun
- Lu Xun
- Guo Si
.... ... ... ... ...

I do not get how they miss those, and considered them as minors.

Comments

  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 663Registered Users

    I guess it's a preference thing.

  • sunbiyolongsunbiyolong Posts: 1Registered Users
    The issue of event-chaining historical events in historical sandbox game is something that companies like Paradox interactive struggles to get right even to this day. However, I don't agree that Koei's method of doing historical event is the actual answer to the issue. One of the reason being they were off and on about having so many historical events to begin with. For example ROTK 10 sports hundreds of historical events up until the unification of Jin dynasty. Such scope is pretty amazing but it also has the issue of Cao Cao blobbing up into a huge empire due to series of events essentially plopping land into his hands and therefore artificially creating the historical situation without the actual organic situation faced by the player at hand. On the other hand ROTK 9 had some historical events that were done in a over the top video cutscene format but there were very few to begin with and it actually requires knowing the condition to fire off which means you never really see those events in your normal, unintended playthroughs.

    I don't think having historical/romance events that essentially play out how the storyline goes makes for a great simulation game considering that it in turn makes the game quite samey in the long run in my opinion. That was one of the issues with ROTK 10 other than the issue with the AI.

    I agree that there needs to be even more unique characters. I think it would have been better if models were all generic but there had been much more unique portraits.
  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 663Registered Users

    Event-chain to follow a linear set story line is something that's fundamentally and definitionally incompatible with a sandbox game.

    The whole point of a sandbox is that "nothing happens the same way" -- whereas an event-chain that sets to a pre-determined story line basically guarantees things always happen according to exactly that set story -- no matter how much reality differs. For example, in the SGZ series, once an event is set in motion you could control a huge territory and still, Liu Bei would suddenly lose all that territory and go wandering west toward Liu Biao.. .and etc etc..

    So like said, it's a preference thing. People who want to re-enact the drama of how the story flowed historically and find fun in recreating those situations exactly as they were, would feel disappointed for sure, but people who value the strategy aspect of the game would find it satisfying as it is.

    ..........


    The best compromise, IMO, would be adding in more of "small but famous, and yet still inconsequential events" to the game.

    For example, like how Liu Bei meets his adopted-son Liu Feng. I've actually identified Liu Feng in game (really!) and he appears as a general in the recruit pool at a certain point in the game. Generals like these, don't have any prior service to other warlord, and it would actually feel much more satisfying if a Liu Bei player saw this general coming into service as an event, rather than waiting for him to pop up randomly.

    Another great example is the strategist Mi Zhu, who ALWAYS appears in the recruitment pool when playing Liu Bei, and getting his first real settlement. In history, Mi Zhu was an important backer of Liu Bei at his most dire times, and followed Liu Bei into every single one of his hardships from Xu province, to Liu Bei's entrance to Yi province. His sister became the official wife of Liu Bei (contrary to popular belief, Lady Gan was a concubine), and his rank in Shu was actually even higher than Zhuge Liang (even though it was honorary).

    Clearly, people like this could be used in an one-off event that recruits him into service, which is small, useful, but still endearing an event to see, that really doesn't bother with the 'sandbox.'

    Same thing could be done for Xun You and Xun Yu for Cao Cao as well. These two were absolutely the most important advisers to Cao Cao ... and yet, Xun Yu becomes banditqueen-fodder in turn 1. :facepalm:







  • WtflagWtflag Posts: 30Registered Users
    edited May 28
    Baby steps my friend.

    Koei has a 34 year ahead start making RTK games.


  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 663Registered Users
    To be totally honest, Koei STARTED 34 years ago, but then stagnated ever since Windows 98 and SGZV.

    Mannerism, lax attitude, lack of creativity, lagging behind the tech curve, making exact same mistakes over and over and over again for the last 10 years... etc etc..

    If a Three Kingdoms 2 ever comes out, with more characters, enhanced events, and more accurate depiction of the late-end game... probably would surpass any Koei-Tecmo game EASILY.

    I guarantee.
Sign In or Register to comment.