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Ranked multiplayer balance: Right click Duelists to Win

SpectorSpector Senior MemberPosts: 726Registered Users
edited June 9 in General Discussion
With this post, and hopefully a productive discussion, I would like to stress an important issue in the current balance of the multiplayer ranked battles.

The current state of the balance in the Ranked multiplayer battles is that the only working META game is to bring two or even three duelists(Champions), specifically, Xu Chu duelists, upgraded to maximum level(top stats and all abilities) and right click enemy generals to Win. That is about it, army units are made irrelevant, other generals are made irrelevant, battle tactics are made irrelevant.

If you want to make the battles feel a bit deeper than that, you take two Xu Chu, with their ability to reduce damage taken by 50% and a Sima Yi, cooldown increase for enemy abilities, among other abilities. This way the strategists will keep the enemy generals for using their abilities as long as he is alive or on the battlefield(he can still affect enemy generals as he is fleeing the battle).

With the Romance mode being the default, and the only working mode for Ranked multiplayer, generals/Heroes are able to kill hundreds of enemy units without losing their health. This would make sense if Champions didn't act like Vanguards, who are supposed to be unit killers. But, in this balance Champions, who are to be duelists, are also able to kill enemy units just as good, if not better then Vanguards. On top of that their abilities allow them to kill massive numbers of enemy units in one strike. This makes Champions able to do everything you might need a general to do on the battlefield short of giving buffs to friendly units. And that part doesn't even matter, because units are just gimmicks in this mode. It doesn't matter what happens to units as long as you kill the enemy generals, taking Total War out of Total War leaving only generals combat mode.

This makes the battles dull, simple, uninteresting and each the same as the one before it. Just like this one where I try to show in depth this gameplay META balance, and express my feelings of how this is so very far from a Total War battle gameplay experience that player who enjoy multiplayer in this franchise are used to.


My honest hope is that developers at Creative Assembly have the wish to listen to the community and improve the Ranked multiplayer aspect of this game. The multiplayer community is large and very active, and while some may point out that we don't make up a large % of players, we represent the largest % of players who spend hundreds and even thousands of hours in Total War games. Multiplayer players are also the ones who spend the most time studding units, abilities, formations and all other aspects of the battles in Total War games, in other words the ones who will research the current state of the game and create it's best META.

The balancing can always remain separate for SP and MP so players who enjoy only SP should not fear that their gameplay will be impacted by changes made to make the MP experience better.

My own suggestion for starting to balance this problem out is that Champions / Duelists need to take far more damage from regular army units. But I want to hear from you, other players, what are you opinions on this matter and potential solutions.
Playing Total War since the original Shogun
Post edited by Spector on

Comments

  • GerryGamer7GerryGamer7 Munich, Bavaria | GermanyPosts: 356Registered Users
    Thank you for writing this post, so I do not have to do it. I subscribe to every sentence!

    But there is an easy solution to most of the issues, if not all of them:

    MAKE RECORDS MODE THE DEFAULT MODE FOR RANKED GAMES. Period.

    The first pages of the ladder are already full of cheasers playing with 3 Xu Chus or even six Lü Bus. This cannot have been the intention of CA here. Battles are dull, uninspiring, un-tactical and all the same. I have won battles with zero units, because i kept my heroes/duelist alive. I hope that CA is changing this asap. All we can do is say it again and again. I am afraid. Until somebody listens.

    Maybe balancing is not so bad after all, it is hard to decide, because even on very hard, I win every game vs the AI. I really would love to play vs humans like in warhammer.

    MAKE RECORDS MODE THE DEFAULT MODE FOR RANKED GAMES. Period.
    No matter how negative i may sound, i love three kingdoms.
  • ZofyhrZofyhr Posts: 33Registered Users
    Maybe you should post this on the support forum.

    I wish a community manager could at least tell if they are aware of the issue on these kind of post.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Posts: 842Registered Users
    Have you tried picking Sun Ren ? She is an assassin after all
  • JoukeSeinstraJoukeSeinstra Posts: 254Registered Users
    They've only sold a million copies I doubt they want to invest resource into a working multiplayer lobby, their budget is as tight as is. Do you know how much it costs to solve a chat bug with text falling through? Or 6 champions being picked in multiplayer battles? Were talking about Ivy League programmers here. You think CA has that kind of money and talent around? It's hard enough to hire bearded millennials to promote a Free-For-All game mode. What more could you ask for? Are you not entertained?
  • shattishatti Posts: 90Registered Users
    yes, there is multiple threads like this, still no news for a records for MP :(
  • JacquestheApostateJacquestheApostate Senior Member Posts: 621Registered Users
    shatti said:

    yes, there is multiple threads like this, still no news for a records for MP :(

    I wish CA could answer this question!
    3 Kingdoms is a great game campaign wise. Make ranked battles in Records mode. Until that is done it won't be complete.
    Gun Cav in Shogun II should have a Retainer!
    Give us another Avatar Campaign!
  • SpectorSpector Senior Member Posts: 726Registered Users
    Rewan said:

    Have you tried picking Sun Ren ? She is an assassin after all

    She is, but the problem is the 50% damage reduction that Xu Chu has as well as very powerful attacks that kill the assassin before she even has a chance. Also, one Sun Ren has 0 chance against 2 or even 3 Xu Chus.
    Playing Total War since the original Shogun
  • -TWI- Samuel-TWI- Samuel Posts: 73Registered Users
    edited June 9
    I agree all post.... i hope one CA reply in one of this days.... yes or no for no illusion in a long days...
  • -TWI- Samuel-TWI- Samuel Posts: 73Registered Users
    edited June 9
    This video is a example: zero tactics in battle.... this is sparta... no...they are a Gods:

  • GerryGamer7GerryGamer7 Munich, Bavaria | GermanyPosts: 356Registered Users
    We cannot even start to discuss balancing issues as long as romance mode is the ONLY available mode for ranked battles. Who decided that it must be fun to let your 1.500 soldiers die and win nevertheless by taking three xu chus who will eliminate the other army by themselves????????????

    I cannot believe this is happening after all the feedback CA received from warhammer players and the everchosen events. An answer from CA and a patch soon would be very nice.

    The game is nice and runs like butter, but my favourite mode is unplayable.





    MAKE RECORDS MODE THE DEFAULT MODE FOR RANKED GAMES. Period.
    No matter how negative i may sound, i love three kingdoms.
  • SpectorSpector Senior Member Posts: 726Registered Users

    This video is a example: zero tactics in battle.... this is sparta... no...they are a Gods:

    In did they are.

    We cannot even start to discuss balancing issues as long as romance mode is the ONLY available mode for ranked battles. Who decided that it must be fun to let your 1.500 soldiers die and win nevertheless by taking three xu chus who will eliminate the other army by themselves????????????

    I cannot believe this is happening after all the feedback CA received from warhammer players and the everchosen events. An answer from CA and a patch soon would be very nice.

    The game is nice and runs like butter, but my favourite mode is unplayable.

    I have a hard time understanding this as well. And I keep going back to my thought that there really isn't a single developer in CA that does MP quality assurance. If they can't do it in house, there are plenty of players knowledgeable to help them.
    Playing Total War since the original Shogun
  • JacquestheApostateJacquestheApostate Senior Member Posts: 621Registered Users
    Spector said:

    This video is a example: zero tactics in battle.... this is sparta... no...they are a Gods:

    In did they are.

    We cannot even start to discuss balancing issues as long as romance mode is the ONLY available mode for ranked battles. Who decided that it must be fun to let your 1.500 soldiers die and win nevertheless by taking three xu chus who will eliminate the other army by themselves????????????

    I cannot believe this is happening after all the feedback CA received from warhammer players and the everchosen events. An answer from CA and a patch soon would be very nice.

    The game is nice and runs like butter, but my favourite mode is unplayable.

    I have a hard time understanding this as well. And I keep going back to my thought that there really isn't a single developer in CA that does MP quality assurance. If they can't do it in house, there are plenty of players knowledgeable to help them.
    Good luck getting anyone from CA to comment on your excellent points.
    3 Kingdoms is a great game campaign wise. Make ranked battles in Records mode. Until that is done it won't be complete.
    Gun Cav in Shogun II should have a Retainer!
    Give us another Avatar Campaign!
  • SpectorSpector Senior Member Posts: 726Registered Users
    Because Xu Chu generals are a standard thing now, here is how I face them with two Xu Chu and a Sima Yi. The ability cooldown debuff that Sima Yi provides is crucial to surviving this battle.

    Playing Total War since the original Shogun
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