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ToD S5 Stats

zer0zer0 Posts: 285Registered Users
ToD Season 2 - Tournament #5
40 Players

Record, Mirrors, Faction
8-7 -(53%)- 0 - Empire
6-6 -(50%)- 0 - Dark Elves
9-2 -(82%)- 0 - Norsca
4-3 -(57%)- 0 - High Elves
3-4 -(43%)- 1 - Skaven
3-2 -(60%)- 0 - Chaos
2-3 -(40%)- 0 - Greenskins
2-3 -(40%)- 0 - Beastmen
0-5 -(0%)-- 0 - Lizardmen
2-2 -(50%)- 0 - Wood Elves
1-3 -(25%)- 0 - Dwarfs
2-1 -(67%)- 0 - Tomb Kings
0-1 -(0%)-- 0 - Vampire Counts
0-1 -(0%)-- 0 - Vampire Coast
0-0 -(0%)-- 0 - Bretonnia

Added to S4 for a patch total:

Record, Mirrors, Faction
10-11 -(48%)- 0 - Empire
8-11 --(42%)- 0 - Dark Elves
7-10 --(41%)- 2 - Skaven
9-5 ---(64%)- 1 - High Elves
9-2 ---(82%)- 0 - Norsca
6-5 ---(55%)- 0 - Wood Elves
4-7 ---(36%)- 0 - Dwarfs
5-4 ---(56%)- 0 - Greenskins
4-5 ---(44%)- 0 - Beastmen
4-5 ---(44%)- 0 - Vampire Counts
4-3 ---(57%)- 0 - Chaos
0-5 ---(0%)-- 0 - Lizardmen
3-1 ---(75%)- 0 - Tomb Kings
1-2 ---(33%)- 0 - Vampire Coast
0-0 ---(0%)-- 0 - Bretonnia

.

Comments

  • Green0Green0 Posts: 4,322Registered Users
    Norsca looking strong
  • GriffithxiGriffithxi Posts: 426Registered Users
    zer0 said:

    ToD Season 2 - Tournament #5
    40 Players

    Record, Mirrors, Faction
    8-7 -(53%)- 0 - Empire
    6-6 -(50%)- 0 - Dark Elves
    9-2 -(82%)- 0 - Norsca
    4-3 -(57%)- 0 - High Elves
    3-4 -(43%)- 1 - Skaven
    3-2 -(60%)- 0 - Chaos
    2-3 -(40%)- 0 - Greenskins
    2-3 -(40%)- 0 - Beastmen
    0-5 -(0%)-- 0 - Lizardmen
    2-2 -(50%)- 0 - Wood Elves
    1-3 -(25%)- 0 - Dwarfs
    2-1 -(67%)- 0 - Tomb Kings
    0-1 -(0%)-- 0 - Vampire Counts
    0-1 -(0%)-- 0 - Vampire Coast
    0-0 -(0%)-- 0 - Bretonnia

    Added to S4 for a patch total:

    Record, Mirrors, Faction
    10-11 -(48%)- 0 - Empire
    8-11 --(42%)- 0 - Dark Elves
    7-10 --(41%)- 2 - Skaven
    9-5 ---(64%)- 1 - High Elves
    9-2 ---(82%)- 0 - Norsca
    6-5 ---(55%)- 0 - Wood Elves
    4-7 ---(36%)- 0 - Dwarfs
    5-4 ---(56%)- 0 - Greenskins
    4-5 ---(44%)- 0 - Beastmen
    4-5 ---(44%)- 0 - Vampire Counts
    4-3 ---(57%)- 0 - Chaos
    0-5 ---(0%)-- 0 - Lizardmen
    3-1 ---(75%)- 0 - Tomb Kings
    1-2 ---(33%)- 0 - Vampire Coast
    0-0 ---(0%)-- 0 - Bretonnia

    .

    Don't suppose I could get a link to where you are watching this tournament?
  • zer0zer0 Posts: 285Registered Users
  • ystyst Posts: 5,462Registered Users
    0-1 -(0%)-- 0 - Vampire Counts
    0-1 -(0%)-- 0 - Vampire Coast
    0-0 -(0%)-- 0 - Bretonnia

    Whats that lol, garbage factions no one picked or?
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  • TlaxtlanSoothsayerTlaxtlanSoothsayer Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    edited June 9
    Lizardmen have 0% winrate since the last patch!

    What's that lol, garbage faction? ;)

    I demand buffs to every single Lizardmen and Bretonnia unit right now!



    All jesting aside:
    @zer0 Thanks for keeping track of these tournament results. Of course they're only from 1 single tourney - in this case My_Son_HW's tournament - and it would be outright stupid to draw any overhasty conclusions.


    Faction picks and winrates heavily depend on the personal preference of a small amount of players due to the limited sample size.


    For example the comparison of the numbers shortly before the hotfix got released and of the 2 tournaments afterwards looks interesting, too:

    Before the hotfix:

    21-12, (64%), 2, Lizardmen
    16-10, (62%), 1, High Elves
    11-10, (52%), 0, Dark Elves
    12-8~, (60%), 3, Vampire Coast
    10-10, (50%), 2, Greenskins
    8-10~, (44%), 0, Empire
    10-7~, (59%), 0, Skaven
    8-8~~, (50%), 0, Norsca
    6-10~, (38%), 1, Dwarfs
    7-8~~, (47%), 1, Wood Elves
    4-8~~, (33%), 1, Vampire Counts
    4-8~~, (33%), 0, Beastmen
    5-6~~, (45%), 0, Tomb Kings
    4-6~~, (40%), 0, Bretonnia
    1-4~~, (20%), 0, Chaos

    After the hotfix:

    10-11 -(48%)- 0 - Empire
    8-11 --(42%)- 0 - Dark Elves
    7-10 --(41%)- 2 - Skaven
    9-5 ---(64%)- 1 - High Elves
    9-2 ---(82%)- 0 - Norsca
    6-5 ---(55%)- 0 - Wood Elves
    4-7 ---(36%)- 0 - Dwarfs
    5-4 ---(56%)- 0 - Greenskins
    4-5 ---(44%)- 0 - Beastmen
    4-5 ---(44%)- 0 - Vampire Counts
    4-3 ---(57%)- 0 - Chaos
    0-5 ---(0%)-- 0 - Lizardmen
    3-1 ---(75%)- 0 - Tomb Kings
    1-2 ---(33%)- 0 - Vampire Coast
    0-0 ---(0%)-- 0 - Bretonnia



    Again it's difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions. For example the tournament format plays a role, too: In most of these tournaments you signed up with 1 single faction for the first rounds. So it's no surprise to me, that Bretonnia isn't as popular as other factions, simply because you risk running into bad match-ups. Although I have to admit that this is just a wild guess and I maybe already overinterpret the given metrics. :smiley:

    I would rate Tomb Kings very high, they are one of the most versatile faction. Still they don't seem to be popular in this particular tournament either and I have to admit that I don't have any other explanation than personal preference of the participants in this case.

    But I think it's really interesting to have a look at these number nonetheless (without trying to overinterpret them). For example it's nice to see, that the faction selection seems to be way more varied than it used to be, when Mortal Empires got released. People tend to pick every single faction, maybe some more than others, but in general there seems to be a lot of variety (at least in this particular tourney series).
  • RiggsenRiggsen Member Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    Norsca’s win rate blow out is mainly because Felkon was playing them and never lost a game. :lol: Interesting to look at these stats, but sample size is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusion.
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Posts: 450Registered Users
    edited June 11
    Riggsen said:

    Interesting to look at these stats, but sample size is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusion.

    For a more 'average' level of play I have a better sample size from opponents in my last ~200 QBs:

    LM 26
    HE 25
    Empire 24
    DE 13
    Dwarfs 13
    TK 12
    BM 12
    Chaos 11
    Skaven 11
    WE 9
    GS 9
    Norsca 9
    VC 8
    Bret 8
    VP 7

    Also, because it may bias it in its own way, I should say the main factions I was playing:

    Skaven 72
    LM 29
    WE 28
    HE 23
    Bret 10

    I'm actually quite shocked how similar my opponents list is to the high level patch total in OP. Empire, DE and HE are in top four on both lists. VP and Bret are bottom two on both lists. Of course, all kinds of qualifications are required, but still somewhat interesting.
  • ParmigianoParmigiano Posts: 568Registered Users
    Riggsen said:

    Norsca’s win rate blow out is mainly because Felkon was playing them and never lost a game. :lol: Interesting to look at these stats, but sample size is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusion.

    I feel as though it at least factually shows that the faction is not horribly underpowered.

    Whatever units if he always used them could be worth a look for nerfs. RoR mammoth/Fimirs.

    Players underrate the stats in a way, imo. Look at liz/skv before and after nerfs, those stats prove that the nerfs had an impact.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 4,322Registered Users

    Riggsen said:

    Interesting to look at these stats, but sample size is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusion.

    For a more 'average' level of play I have a better sample size from opponents in my last ~200 QBs:

    LM 26
    HE 25
    Empire 24
    DE 13
    Dwarfs 13
    TK 12
    BM 12
    Chaos 11
    Skaven 11
    WE 9
    GS 9
    Norsca 9
    VC 8
    Bret 8
    VP 7

    Also, because it may bias it in its own way, I should say the main factions I was playing:

    Skaven 72
    LM 29
    WE 28
    HE 23
    Bret 10

    I'm actually quite shocked how similar my opponents list is to the high level patch total in OP. Empire, DE and HE are in top four on both lists. VP and Bret are bottom two on both lists. Of course, all kinds of qualifications are required, but still somewhat interesting.
    are you listing pickrates or winrates? I do agree Bretonnia is struggling currently, especially in tournaments, but VP is definitely not underpowered. It is not picked a lot on ladder though, this fits my experience also, probably because some people don't have the DLC or prefer other factions. In general, there's a number of "fan favorite" factions and in my experience it's generally Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs, sometimes HE (people don't pick HE often vs me but then again, I normally pick first, very often go HE myself and maybe they don't want a mirror match).

    Norsca and Beastmen and Wood Elves though have got to be the 3 factions I see the least on ladder. Again, probably because they don't possess the DLC or they play in a gimmicky way. Beastmen and WE especially require strong micro to get results and if you build "campaign armies" with them you generally lose.
  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Posts: 450Registered Users
    edited June 12
    Green0 said:

    Riggsen said:

    Interesting to look at these stats, but sample size is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusion.

    For a more 'average' level of play I have a better sample size from opponents in my last ~200 QBs:

    LM 26
    HE 25
    Empire 24
    DE 13
    Dwarfs 13
    TK 12
    BM 12
    Chaos 11
    Skaven 11
    WE 9
    GS 9
    Norsca 9
    VC 8
    Bret 8
    VP 7

    Also, because it may bias it in its own way, I should say the main factions I was playing:

    Skaven 72
    LM 29
    WE 28
    HE 23
    Bret 10

    I'm actually quite shocked how similar my opponents list is to the high level patch total in OP. Empire, DE and HE are in top four on both lists. VP and Bret are bottom two on both lists. Of course, all kinds of qualifications are required, but still somewhat interesting.
    are you listing pickrates or winrates? I do agree Bretonnia is struggling currently, especially in tournaments, but VP is definitely not underpowered. It is not picked a lot on ladder though, this fits my experience also, probably because some people don't have the DLC or prefer other factions. In general, there's a number of "fan favorite" factions and in my experience it's generally Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs, sometimes HE (people don't pick HE often vs me but then again, I normally pick first, very often go HE myself and maybe they don't want a mirror match).

    Norsca and Beastmen and Wood Elves though have got to be the 3 factions I see the least on ladder. Again, probably because they don't possess the DLC or they play in a gimmicky way. Beastmen and WE especially require strong micro to get results and if you build "campaign armies" with them you generally lose.
    I should have been clearer - this is just pickrates. Winrates would just be a measure of which factions I was good/bad against.

    I think 'fan favourites' is quite a big factor. If you look at SP achievements Empire, HE and Dwarfs are most popular, and I think that washes through to QB selections at least:

    'win a campaign as X'
    Empire 14.3%
    Dwarfs 12.1%
    Chaos 7.4%
    VC 7.2%
    Greenskins 4.2%

    'Playing as X, win the grand campaign'
    WE 5.5%
    BM 1.9%

    'Playing as Bretonnia, Bordeleaux, or Carcassonne, win the Old World campaign'
    Bretonnia 4.1%

    'Playing as Norsca or the Wintertooth, win a campaign'
    Norsca 3.0%

    'Playing as the X, win a singleplayer campaign'
    HE 12.6%
    TK 7.2%
    LM 7.1%
    DE 6.2%
    VP 4.3%
    Skaven 3.4%

    https://steamcommunity.com/stats/364360/achievements
    https://steamcommunity.com/stats/594570/achievements

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