Wood Elves eventual update

Sarmatianns#6760

Last few weeks have made me really disillusioned with this forum, so I'm going to bow out, at least for a while.

Before I do that, however, I'd like to offer some ideas for devs if they ever decide to update Wood Elves and bring them to the level of most other game 1 races. Wood Elves, along with Beastmen and maybe Norsca to an extent really need some fresh blood injected into them.

1) AT LEAST ONE MORE LEGENDARY LORD
There are several choices there in my view:

- Ariel
Ariel would be my top choice, simply because she would offer something new and unique to the roster. In TT Ariel can fly, has terror, is level 4 wizard, offers AOE immunity to psychology and slows down enemies. She also has some other abilities that would probably be interpreted as physical resistance.
Now, flying in mind would not be particularly needed. She could be modeled on Sarth, with similar playstyle and animations, but having physical instead of magic and missile resistance - she is pretty much described as growing as tall as 2 men when in battle and having huge butterfly/moth wings. AOE ITP could be ignored, as it would encourage blobbing, but AOE slow aura could be interesting.
As level 4 wizard, she would probably have access to normal Arcane Conduit and bonus in the forest, and a mixed life/dark lore for casting

- Drycha
Yes, Drycha is a hero, although she is mentioned somewhere as a lord, iirc. That's not really an issue if it adds to gameplay. Kroak was a lord on TT, he's a hero in game.
Drycha would be my 2nd choice, since a Dryad lord option would be cool. Probably a beefier version of Branchwraith, with some cool new abilities. Would also be good for campaign play, as she could have a starting position outside Athel Loren.
She would probably be simplest to add to the game, as there's a working model with animations already in the game

- Twilight Sisters
I know they are very popular and many would make them top choice, but they're only 3rd choice for me, simply because their playstyle would be similar to Glady's. Also, the mechanic of having to kill both in short span of time otherwise they just come back to life would be a bit troublesome to do properly. Sure, it could be done, but I'd imagine devs wouldn't be willing/allowed to devote it enough resources to do it justice.
So, I'd rather have something that easier to do and offers something new, rather than a sidegrade.

2) SHADOWDANCER HERO:
Shadowdancer would be an interesting addition. Possibly two variants, one with BvI and the other with BvL. Modeled after Loremaster, Shadowdancer can cast spells from lore of shadows, but has no arcane conduit. Some abilities that would let him affect battle outside of pure melee would be needed as like Loremaster, Shadowdancers has no mount, has little HP but would also lack the 90 armour of Loremaster. High physical resistance, permanent stalk, some buffs or active AOE stalk or something that helps him be useful.

3) LORD LEVEL MAGES
That would not be a huge issue, I assume, as it is simply allowing current caster characters to be lords as well. Simply have a lord variant of Spellsingers called Spellweavers.

4) ADDITIONAL LORES OF MAGIC
In TT, Wood Elves would have access to a lot of lores, as Elves are most magically gifted race after Slanns and some Daemons. But, to keep it manageable and not create new abusive possibilities, I'd suggest adding just two: Lore of High and lore of Dark magic.
It would add more possibilites and reinvigorate the faction without offering some OP synergies, like lore of Light would be.

5) MELEE GLADE RIDERS
Lack of melee cavalry in medium price range is really noticeable. Wild Riders are 1100/1200 cavalry that obviously require a huge investment and can still be shut down effectively by more numerous cheaper cavalry units. They are also overkill against targets like hounds and similar stuff.
Something modeled on Dark Riders/Ellyrian Reavers but in 700 price range would indeed be a great addition to the roster.

6) MORE DANCES FOR WARDANCERS
On TT, Wardancers could choose out of 4 dances. Currently, only 2 are implemented. Giving each type of Wardancers one additional dance would make them more versatile.
Wardancers could get Whirling Death - gaining +AP for -MD.
Speardancers could get Storm of Blades - gaining +MA for -MD.

... and of course, last but not the least:

7) VANGUARD FOR FREAKIN' ORION!!!!
No explanation needed

It would be really nice if everything could be implemented from this list, but I'm sure at least something could be. Thanks for reading,

Have fun people and happy balancing!

Disposable Hero

Don't give up though.... Less sanity here is a loss for everyone.

The_real_FAUST#6885

Literally every suggestion I support. Would make such a difference to WE

Good suggestions!

Loupi#8512

Yes to everything you said, although I think WE should get more lores than just high and dark, e.g. heavens, death. Lore of light wouldn't be a problem if it's only available at the lord level, similar to only slann getting high magic.

A melee glade rider would so nice, it's hard to believe that a race so heavily focused on mobility and hit-and-run tactics has no melee cav below 1100.

Oh you forgot great stag mounts for glade lords!

tbh I think Orion needs more than vanguard if he wants to be on the level of the super competitive lords like Karl, Malekith etc but I'll save that for it's own discussion.

Tennisgolfboll#5877

I want an actual wood elf as a legendary lord

Scarloc for example

Odysseus95

I think you're forgetting to mention some of Ariel's most interesting features. Namely, she has the ability to cast certain spells without using the Winds of Magic with the Wand of Wych Elm.

Most importantly, however, she has the ability to spawn small trees/forests instantly with the Acorns of the Oak of Ages, which would allow Wood Elf players to create some very creative and atypical Forest Stalker plays, strongly playing into their fantasy and faction design.

The other interesting wargear she has:

1. Heartstone of Athel Loren - Gives her nifty Magic Resistance.
2. Berry Wine to heal herself or a friendly unit.
3. Dart of Doom - A missile ability that saps away the target's energy upon contact. Could be translated into

I'd be super bummed if CA miss the opportunity to allow for some creative Forest Stalker plays by implementing the Acorns of the Oak of Ages ability.

Lord_Distamorfin

Odysseus95 said:

I think you're forgetting to mention some of Ariel's most interesting features. Namely, she has the ability to cast certain spells without using the Winds of Magic with the Wand of Wych Elm.

Most importantly, however, she has the ability to spawn small trees/forests instantly with the Acorns of the Oak of Ages, which would allow Wood Elf players to create some very creative and atypical Forest Stalker plays, strongly playing into their fantasy and faction design.

Oh how I wish this engine was flexible enough to actually be able to handle spontaneously growing forests. Then we could have actual battlefield scars from artillery or powerful spells (like a damn comet falling out of the sky.
I really doubt the engine could handle it though. Although if a modder or someone knowledgeable about the engine could prove me wrong I'd be ecstatic.

Lotus_Moon#2452

Sisters of twilight please

hanen

Lotus_Moon said:

Sisters of twilight please </p>

Regenerating lord so you can take double beast caster for manticore summons without screwing yourself over.

Sounds fun!

IMaybo

Odysseus95 said:

I think you're forgetting to mention some of Ariel's most interesting features. Namely, she has the ability to cast certain spells without using the Winds of Magic with the Wand of Wych Elm.

Most importantly, however, she has the ability to spawn small trees/forests instantly with the Acorns of the Oak of Ages, which would allow Wood Elf players to create some very creative and atypical Forest Stalker plays, strongly playing into their fantasy and faction design.

The other interesting wargear she has:

1. Heartstone of Athel Loren - Gives her nifty Magic Resistance.
2. Berry Wine to heal herself or a friendly unit.
3. Dart of Doom - A missile ability that saps away the target's energy upon contact. Could be translated into

I'd be super bummed if CA miss the opportunity to allow for some creative Forest Stalker plays by implementing the Acorns of the Oak of Ages ability.

was asking for something similar to spawning trees for ages
maybe not forests but at least spawning some field (something like that green patch of land from TT version in the beginning of the video below) that will give them control over their Forest Stalker bonuses while nerfing some Forest Stalker bonuses to make them balanced


right now map with woods or without one can play a crucial role in the battle outcome
cavalry and large units usually take -20% speed and -20% M attack penalty in the forest, while WE units take no penalties in woods and on top of that infantry receives +15%M def and +50% accuracy (latter doesn't mean that much since shooting through the forest is a nightmare on it' own).
Some units like wildwood rangers receive even more - defence against large and +15 against large (not sure what that 15 means)
WE cav doesn't receive bonuses in woods as far as I know, but neither receives penalties.

Also, this ability should be restricted from using near the borders of the map to prevent camping.

Lotus_Moon said:

Sisters of twilight please </p>

I agree. If there is a DLC for WE, it should be on the level of other DLCs giving WE something new, unique and never seen before. Sisters can be hard to implement, but they are so worth it. Also, it can be first archery specialised LL in WE campaign, since Orion is cavalry lord and Durthu is treekin, treemen, dryads lord

hanen

Going into the forest vs WE is already suicide.

If they can bring the forest to you... the ability would be very hard to balance.

IMaybo

this ability can be something like "forest junior" giving only half bonuses, or giving bonuses to certain units

I agree that current version of fighting against WE army in the forest and outside of it is day and night.
While I don't mind it in SP, in MP it doesn't work.

Whether you get the bonus or not depends on the map, on the starting side, and during the fight, you often don't know if a unit is "in the forest" state or not, because there is no visual indication, except when hiding

It is very random for WE and their opponents and it is already a match-deciding factor. So I propose to make it weaker, but more controllable.

I wonder if this bonus influences the prices on WE units, because if it does, then their units should cost less on maps without forest.

Loupi#8512

Well really forest stalker should go back to giving a speed bonus in forests rather than defence, something like 20% would be good, and it should apply to forest spirit units too.

keroro7

If there are more choices for the user, that's a good thing for everyone.
actually, I do not care which spells/lords is given to whom. I think it will be more fun.

It's just one thing I'm concerned about .
now summon magic and healing magic both nerfed, however, another powerful spells are still alive.
single sniping magic and Hold on! CC, AOE spells(I think aoe is fine ), but also seriously powerful skills,
yea, these are likely to be exploited.

if these spells are also adjusted,
then no one will be able with cheap cheat trick to win of magic combinations, i personally hope this way.

HSK#4606

Agreed with op fully. Looking forward to have you back.

TlaxtlanSoothsayer

I know, that this maybe sounds sentimental, but I will miss you, Sarmatian.

nmh6z

I love all your suggestions! Though personally I'd change the order on the twilight sisters and drycha.