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FANS: Southern Realms army list, Mercenaries (Dogs of wars) mechanics, Faction aligment.

Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
edited June 20 in General Discussion
THIS LIST IS FOR SOUTHERN REALMS, the nations that compose this cultural group NOT DOGS OF WAR, ill mention them here as mostly regiment of renown, and some units BASED ON which i mean that look like not that they are those DOW units.

Ok, this is a made up army list that i posted back on WH1 long time ago i really thought they would be released on WH1 and now since we wont get any more race packs i hardly think we will see them, is Araby who is more fantastical dint make it i dont think this will. but i still had this idea of them.

For one i want for this faction to get rid of tier unit, in most races let take the Dwarf for example Miners--->Dwarf Warriors-->Longbeards lower tier get supplanted whit higher ones.. which truth the army list can be 18 units but at the end you are using the same 6 units. so all units in this faction would have a purpose. also as less useless variants as i can.

Also to take and strong emphasis on trading, rare resources and making alliances.

OK, lets start so ill divide first into Army List, then Mechanics, LLs/factions.

Here is some other discussions i saw about them that i think deserve attention, i give credit where credit is due.

Berd_of the West wrote this one:
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/190076/estalia-faction-speculation-discussion/p1

Some_Scribe
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/219062/ultimate-estalia-unit-list-the-canon-edition/p1

The rest are mine, feel free to post my link on other if you find it interesting, also feel free to post anything you have that its Southern Realm related be it Estalia, Tilea, Border Princes or New Word Colonies.

STANDART ARMY LIST

Ok, i want and some want them based on Tercios Pike and Shot armies of Europe. as such i also like some of the Dog Of War units which can be used as a Standard troop type for the southern realms. While they could have DOW regiment of renown i marked these troops whit * to know they are based on a DOW unit.

INFANTRY

*Pikemen- Based on Pirazzo's Lost Legion Pikemen anti-Large good for holding defensive positions at gates etc. ot flanks

Glaivers- They hold Glaives, anti large and better fighting melee than other spears, no shield.

Rodeleros- Swordsmen whit round bucklers similar to Empire swords. BUT have 2 javelins.

Alsmorgavars- Skirmisher type whit javelins similar to Norscan but faster, has strong melee and charge. low health and armor.

*Dueslist- based on Vespero's Vendetta DOW, one sword one dagger. stalk,anti infantry glass cannon.


RANGED INFANTRY

Armored Crossbows- Same as Empire however since Southern Realms don't rely to much on gunpowder so i think they should have better stats and armor since they are big on crossbows on Southern Realms.(SR)

*Pavise Arbalest- a heavy crossbow that shoot in a straight line armour piercing/anti ranged long range but slow moving,slower rate of fire based on Braganza's Besiegers. these units are the handgunner equivalent but better because they have a shield..


CAVALRY

Crossbow Cavalry- Similar to Outriders but armed whit Crossbows.

Jinetes- Light cavalry armed whit javelins similar to the cavalry the Moors used on medieval 2.

Knights of the Spear- Based on the order of the spear which is a Myrmidian order. shock cav?


ARTILLERY

*Moving artillery- Based on DOW Bronzino's Galloper cannon. horse draw cavalry fast moving but weaker than other artillery.

Ballista- Border Princes same as Dwarfs ballista.

Cannon-Tilea,Estalia same as imperial cannon a reskin.

FLYER

*Birdmen- based on Birdmen of Catrazza

LORDS

Advisor Of Myrmida- according to lore Myrmida is the god of wisdom and war, as such some cultist of her go abroad to advise and counsel armies and even command. as such i think they are a unique addition and most likely also have their own Lore of Myrmida.

Mercenary General- Similar to Empire captain.


HERO

Hireling Wizards- They have 8 Lores just like Empire. for balancing purpose give them 4 Lores. Lights,Fire,Metal (we need the last wizard type for the empire) cant decide the fourth maybe Beast?

Priestess of Myrmida- Lore of Myrmida, Female melee spear hero.

Mercenary Hero/Paymaster- Basically a mini Mercenary General, i would combine this whit the paymaster Paymaster has big bonuses outside of battle. i think paymaster need to have a Paymaster Guard on field he would act as a normal unit.

Diestro- Swordmaster hero assassin type similar to witch hunter minus the gun more melee attack.Stalk, duelist

MECHANICS
From what i read 2 things stand out mercenaries armys,trade/gold and Dog of War units.

As such they have multiple bonuses to holding resources and have a mechanics related to holding said resources for bonuses similar to hight Elves economic tech tree but more interactive. also trading would be very important for their victory condition.

That's all i have on that matter feel free to expand.

RARE RESOURCES, RESOURCE MONOPOLY.-Update 6/19/2019

So here how it would work certain factions have a resource that they prefer Example- Marco Colombo Spices,Pastures and Exotic animals. the factions have bonuses to all resources they hold, but the resource they want they get unique faction bonuses some units and are requisite to have for campaign victory.

Example- Border princes are Gold,Gems so if they 3 places whit gold resources and max out the resource build they unlock the bonus or units as such, GOLD MONOPOLY- Mercs units have higher morale,better attack and the Knight Descendant are cheaper better morale/attack/Charge.

Also some resources on the world don't offer anything which are Dyes, Pottery, Spices all Southern realm factions receive special bonuses from this resources i think also we could had more types of rare resources.

As for Border princes they have a Special Resource called "sellswords" they sell elite soldiers to other nations other nation that has this resource is Kislev. they can only generate. so you can generate this resource as trading for money to certain factions like Empire,Dwarfs,Araby,Southern Realms,Kislev etc. even if they don't since nations are at war between them the "sellswords" resourcehelps their economy because they are generating money selling elite soldier to other city states.

As such they need their Special Resource to win so for example Leitpold The Black needs 3 sites of each that hold his unique resources Gold,Gems and Sellswords. other Southern realm factions hold this resources too so it means his camping will be hard difficulty.

MERCENARIES

Ok, i been thinking about this for a while i think they should have a button similar to TW previous game were you can recruit mercenaries these units have a limit on how much per army depending on type, you can have these units. they are more powerful than their counterparts but have very high upkeep also they offer something new they don't utterly replace the previous units.

To start per army you can have only 2 of these whit research you can have 6 per army stack. this units don't utterly replace the standard troops they are specialized versions or have a drawback that the Standart troops excel at

Also this units and standard units are expensive compared whit other but due to Southern Realms strong trading and economy they balance each other out.

MERCENARY UNIT ROSTER

1-*Free Lance- based on Voland's Venators,medium shock cav. A shock cavalry of nobles from all around the human lands. up to 2 of them.
2- Halberdiers- Basically same as Empire.up to 3.
3- Armored Swordmen- they look like conquistadors whit full covered helmet used by gladiators, armored no javelins anti - infantry. up to 3.
4- Arquebusier- gunpowder its not that big here so they could be elite version of Empire handgunners. more armor same stats as Empire hangunners but have "decent melee combatant" trait. up to 2.

Overall PER ARMY you can choose 6 merc units.of the type above. when i say "up to2" mean that unit can take 2 Slots out of the 6 merc slots.

Dogs of war as far as Dog of War i think they can be added whit this DLC as new pack for mercenaries FOR ALMOST ALL FACTIONS. for example Greenskins wont use Human mercenaries but can use Giants of Albion etc.

However for Southern Realms you get them at a discount and all of them. which would enable them to have a monopoly on the DOW if the other's don't take them early.

FACTIONS/LL
So for the Southern Realms culture group includes Border Princes,Estalia, Tilea and New World Colonies. i would add Marienburg there too since Marienburg its very unique almost separate to Empire Standard.

MORTAL EMPIRES
Estalia-3 Territories
Tilea-2
New World Colonies-2
Border Princes- 4 on 2 Providences.

So far there a couple of LL but so far the most capable choices are Marco Colombo,Leitpold the Black, Borgio the Besieger and Lucrezzia Belladonna. i want to see Lorenzo di Marco is stationed in the north and Lorenzo Lupo Luccini its to close to Borgio Miragliano. also Lucrezia its in Pavona which its not on the map.

New World Colonies led by Marco Colombo CA can make him up anyway.

Border Princes Led by Leitpold The Black

Tilea Led by Borgio the Besieger

Estalia- i have no freaking clue... there almost zero info about them or any character there. Lorenzo di Marco??But i think Giovanna Luccelli chief priestess of Myrmida, which is in Magritta its more likely.... trivia Sienna Fuegonassus from Vermintide its of Estalia decent.

NEW WORLD COLONIES-Marco Colombo (supposedly he dead 1000 before Karl, i guest we have to make a new LL for this position)
*Would have better standard crossbowmen stats on his army and anti large only on crossbowmen and on his army. according to lore Marco being a very good shot whit the crossbow likes to hunt big beast,
+Discounts on Merc Halberdiers/Swordmen and can field one more of each, also Arquebusier can field 3.
+He is friendly whit the Lizardmen, Lizardmen bonuses.
+His army has anti large bonuses.
+Faction resource: Exotic Animals,Spices, and Pastures.

Unique units mercenary Tab.
Anakonda Amazons
Amazonriestest
Pizarro lost legion.

BORDER PRINCES CONFEDERACY- Leitpold The Black
+Free lance up to 3.
+Unique Faction Resource: bonus on Gold, Gemstones and Sellswords
+Bonus to Crossbow Cavalry, Jinetes. Mercenary hero/Paymaster and Mercenary general start whit more experience.
-Minus relations to most human factions.
+Faction bonus to Rodeleros and Glaviers.
+Cheaper Merc tab. prices and upkeep.

Unique Units
Knight Descendants- Heavy cav similar to Empire Knights,this are descendants of the Border princes knights that established there.

Settlement Levy- Wood cutter Axe armed troops better stats than the Brettonia peasant since they are always under attack from Greenskins etc. also Spear variant whit a buckler.

Ballista- same as Dwarf throwers.

TILEA- Borgio the Besieger
+Borgio army when Borgio lays siege time is shorter for attacker to start receiving attrition after only 3 turns.
+Faction Pikemen bonus and Pavise Xbows.
+Unique Faction resource bonuses: Iron,Marble and Timber
+Bonus to Cannons/Gallopers on his army.
+Settlement defenses have longer siege times and cheaper wall defense upgrade.

Unique Mercenary tab
Can recruit first Alcati Pikemen, Leopold's Leopard Company, Braganza besiegers and Miragliano marksmen

Unique Unit:
*Lucinni Warriors: armed just like Lorenzo Lupo Miniatures but less flashy.

ESTALIA- Giovanna Luccelli
+Better charge bonus and morale on her army.
+Can field more Priestess of Myrmida and come at rank 3, Advisor of Myrmida less upkeep come at rank 3.
+Faction Bonuses/reduced upkeep on Diestros and Duellist, rank 3 for Diestros.
+Reduced upkeep for Almogovars, have slightly more ammo and attack.
+Unique Faction Resources bonuses: Dyes, Pottery and Salt.

Unique units
Order of the Righteous Spears Units

Myrmidan Spears- All female spear/shield combo infantry anti large, silver shield defense, high attack when morale is good.

Knights of The Blazing Sun- It's and empire troop type but i think they should have it since the temples are in Magritta and there where they started.

SOUTHERN REALMS ARMIES/CAMPAIGN SUMMARY -UPDATE 6/19/2019

Well, how are they different than the Empire/Brettonia? well the Southern realms units are specialized they are very good at what they do Empire Swords will lose to Rodeleros and can stand up better to Empire swords, but against Large foes they succumb faster than E.Swords. so the armies need to be balanced or they will fail, this faction are for the historical fans and for pro players were if you rely only on one troop type or higher tier troops you are going to get whooped, this is mean for people who likes the challenge of micro and handling which unit fight which one.

Also due to the lack of variants and this factions can use any troop type for the rest of the game all have their roles.

As for campaign member over there where i put the resources, the factions have bonuses to all resources they hold, but the resource they want they get unique faction bonuses and units.

Example- Border princes are Gold,Gems so if they 3 places whit gold resources they unlock the bonus or units as such, GOLD MONOPOLY- Mercs armys are 25% cheaper knight descendant fight better and are cheaper.

According to lore they are very good fighters but since they are more relaxed the northern don't take them as seriously. and don't have that much opportunity to shine since they fight among themselves.

FACTION ALIGMENTS(working on the names)
So i think this game need to divide the factions into alignments.

The Big two
1-Shield of Civilization(good)-Brettonia, Empire,Dwarfs, Hight Elves,Kislev and Lizardmen. These guys alliances and trade its very important.

2-Forces of Doom- Chaos, Skaven, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarfs, Norsca. these are the opposition of the good guys and everything else.


Neutrals- Tomb Kings, Araby, Southern Realms, Wood Elves, Ogre kingdoms. these don't care much and they act on their own accord they can deal whit their neutral category whit almost no problems, and can strike whit the Big Two depending on race they hate. the neutrals its very important they make alliances on their own to combat the big 2 and don't get caught up on their conflict. Example Araby+ Southern Realms(especially Tilea).

The Hated- Dark Elves, Greenskins, Vampire Counts, Vampire Coast. these races are not liked by anybody besides their own culture groups such trade and alliances whit the other 3 categorys and other species. its hard and selective but can strike deals among their own culture group,some very few on this category and some Neutrals.

This category will further help how we make alliances and its how we been making them all along, but better yet it will allow the world to be divided into 3 major power groups vying for power. as many of us know Estalia,Tilea and Border princes on Mortal Empires have a very "i don't care attitude i wont ally whit you hell i wont even trade"


WHY I THINK SOUTHERN REALMS ITS A WIN-WIN FOR DEVS AND FANS

Well, this faction for the devs will be very cost effective they are all humans and can use the same human animations, and many can be reskin only which its the easy part for devs they don't have to develop anything from the ground up. and CA has proven when they can let go they can come up whit new stuff if GW(tyrants, they destroyed the world and now care about Warhammer universe bahh **** them) lets them. they did and excellent job on Norsca most of us can agree.

As fans we benefit because we would get another race whit 4 starting locations and i don't know about you but their starting locations are tons of fun, when i pick a faction i look for starting location first and this provide whit access to the old world factions and new world factions not to mention that race packs have wayyyy more meat of content than LL packs we need substance to hold us until WH3.

Ideas suggestions what do you guys think?
Post edited by Unknown6203 on
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Comments

  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 3,246Registered Users
    I really dislike alignment thing? Far too oversimplifies things.

    Forget Estalia, it's nuke fodder. Give me Jaego Roth to make actual pirate faction with.

    And I think it should be Lucrezzia instead of Marco. I think dead should stay dead.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • CountTalabeclandCountTalabecland Posts: 172Registered Users
    edited June 19
    I think you covered it all. Should be a more versatile Empire. There has to be some way that they are different from or not as good as Empire. Imperials should have a monopoly on really heavy knights (Reiksguard), demi-gryphs, and hellblasters/rocket batteries, steam-tanks. I feel like the mercenary mechanic should really **** the Southern Realms ability to field multiple armies. Like they should have one or two really good professional armies but not hordes of state paid soldiers like the Empire.

    And hats, really big ones with a lot of feathers. Can’t be a mercenary general without your pimp hat.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 1,787Registered Users
    edited June 19
    I've yet to see a DoW roster, fan created or otherwise, that seems interesting.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,725Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    I really dislike alignment thing? Far too oversimplifies things.

    Forget Estalia, it's nuke fodder. Give me Jaego Roth to make actual pirate faction with.

    And I think it should be Lucrezzia instead of Marco. I think dead should stay dead.

    Mostly agree with Crossil here, including on Marco. You could really substitute Pirazzo, I mean, the NWC already have his flag.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 2,312Registered Users
    I dislike @Unknown6203, A bunch of made up nonsense and it doesn't even seem that you've reflected on their generic army list that can be found in Warhammer Chronicles 2004.

    INFANTRY

    *Pikemen- Based on Pirazzo's Lost Legion Pikemen anti-Large good for holding defensive positions at gates etc. ot flanks


    Pikemen are already in their generic army list, they don't need to be based off of Pirazzos lost legion they can be based of their own entry that you seem oblivious to.

    Glaivers- They hold Glaives, anti large and better fighting melee than other spears, no shield.


    Made up nonsense. They do however have a unit wielding Halberds and wearing Heavy Armor in the form of the Paymasters Guard. Why Make up nonsense when their official sources already have better more faithful options.

    Rodeleros- Swordsmen whit round bucklers similar to Empire swords. BUT have 2 javelins.


    Duelists have 4 different weapons loadouts in the DOW generic army list, Rodeleros would be Duelists with Shields.

    Alsmorgavars- Skirmisher type whit javelins similar to Norscan but faster, has strong melee and charge. low health and armor.


    Made up nonsense.

    *Dueslist- based on Vespero's Vendetta DOW, one sword one dagger. stalk,anti infantry glass cannon.


    Again it's not necessary to base Duelists on Vesperos Vandetta, they have an entry in the DOW generic army list.

    They can come equipped in 4 ways, I suggest they be named respectively.

    Dual Weapons (Tilian Duelists) (Bonus Vs Infantry)
    Sword and Board (Estalian Rodeleros) (Bronze Shield, +MD)
    Sword and Pistol (Pirates of Sartosa) (Pistols like Emp Free Company)
    Sword and Throwing Knives (Cutthroats) (Like Corsairs w/Handbows)

    They'd have generally good MA and MD, low armor, and vanguard deployment. Depending on how you think about them they'd either be upgraded Empire Free Company with better combat stats (Pirates), or downgraded Dark Elf Corsairs with lower armor (Dual Weapons & Handbows). To differentiate the Throwing Knives form the Pistols I suggest giving the Throwing Knives 360 Firing Arcs, Fire while Moving and possibly Stalk.

    Vesperos Vandetta would have all the benefits of Dual Weapons, Shields, and Throwing Knives, plus Fear. As per their unit description.

    I could go on @Unknown6203 but for all your thinking you should have consulted their original source material. You might as well be saying that the Dwarfs should have Ram Cavalry just because you think it'd be neat.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • TalmoreanTalmorean Posts: 1,394Registered Users
    Give me Asarnil the Dragonlord as a DOW LL.

    Just to **** Elf Haters off.

    High Elves are simply better than you.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 2,312Registered Users
    Hes totally not LL material.

    But he'd be awesome as a RoR.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • eomateomat Junior Member Posts: 633Registered Users


    I feel if anyone is LL material it’s Asarnil. He lead armies of Caledor. He has his own unique items and has his own unique mount. The mighty emerald green dragon Deathfang. Really want his inclusion in whatever shape or form though. LL or the last unlockable RoR. We just need Dogs of War DLC.
  • Federykx99Federykx99 Posts: 342Registered Users
    @eomat I don't think he fits as a LL for the Dogs, especially if as it will likely happen the DoW will share their roster with the Southern Realms. Asarnil was always an RoR afaik and should remain so, I think there are explicit entries in the Dogs of War armybook for actual LL's.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 3,246Registered Users

    @eomat I don't think he fits as a LL for the Dogs, especially if as it will likely happen the DoW will share their roster with the Southern Realms. Asarnil was always an RoR afaik and should remain so, I think there are explicit entries in the Dogs of War armybook for actual LL's.

    And Pirazzo is also just a mercenary leader like Asarnil but some do want him in NWC.

    I personally want Jaego Roth and Morgan Bernhardt because of their connections to other(already present or future) LLs.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • Federykx99Federykx99 Posts: 342Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    @eomat I don't think he fits as a LL for the Dogs, especially if as it will likely happen the DoW will share their roster with the Southern Realms. Asarnil was always an RoR afaik and should remain so, I think there are explicit entries in the Dogs of War armybook for actual LL's.

    And Pirazzo is also just a mercenary leader like Asarnil but some do want him in NWC.

    I personally want Jaego Roth and Morgan Bernhardt because of their connections to other(already present or future) LLs.
    I'm not completely against the idea, but I think if CA will ever add them they will at least follow their AB
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Posts: 1,836Registered Users

    I've yet to see a DoW roster, fan created or otherwise, that seems interesting.

    I agree, it always looks so bland to me.

    But that is just our tastes. A LOT of people are pumped for DoW so here's hoping they get in. Game 3 is going to be virtually nothing but races and factions that I like so if one slot is taken up by DoW its not like I can complain.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,725Registered Users

    @eomat I don't think he fits as a LL for the Dogs, especially if as it will likely happen the DoW will share their roster with the Southern Realms. Asarnil was always an RoR afaik and should remain so, I think there are explicit entries in the Dogs of War armybook for actual LL's.

    I agree, he had a dragon. And that was his sales pitch, not his leadership of armies. But I have a dragon. So yeah, he'd be a LH sort of RoR. Since he didn't lead armies anymore, not welcomed at home and the leaders of Tilea were just hiring him for once more, because he's got a dragon. Rather than leadership. If not leading themselves like Borgio they were using hiring someone like Pirazzo, and that's @Crossil is why I often suggest him. If we're talking 4 LL they're going to be looking for ones that they send over the world. They've done that with all the Warhammer 2 factions and I expect them to continue it into Warhammer 3. Hence Pirazzo over in the New World. Which is something he did, and I think if one agrees or not CA might be thinking the same thing hence they used his standard there. And Pirazzo has in lore lead expeditionary forces. And specifically is a name associated with the DoW from their main book rather than Dreadfleet. Not that I would oppose him really, that's different from what I think they might do.

    Also, DoW sharing with Southern Realms isn't really the right way of saying it. First, lets ditch "Southern Realms" because that's a made up term by CA. And the BP and Estalia were really nonthings to the DoW lore. Nor are they the same entities the same as Tilea. BP are barely anything and microversions of all the big powers, Bretonnia, Empire, Vampire enclaves, and yeah, a few Tilean style points. But main thing they're all over the place. Estalia tended to recruit in a more focussed means but really Estalia is a nonentity most of the lore, not as wealthy as Tilea, as militarily strong, as advanced, or really do they have the vast trade networks and exploration jive that is the theme of Tilea. It's Tilea, and Tilea uses the DoW as it's army. Tilean habites of piracy, privateering, exploration, raiding, colonization, trading, and mercenary armies. This is why a large chunk of the DoW are Tilean in origin. None of the city states of Tilea did not keep full standing armies, and this is why these two go hand and hand. And if they ever do make the DoW they will probably be exclusive to Tilea and Tilean colonies and trade routes.

    The DoW are already a fleshed out army for all sorts of basic needs and would be mostly hedging on the side game of interesting RoR and legendary heros that fill it. If they want to dig for units GW was on the edge of releasing a new row of things for them before they were cancelled for balance reasons. They were advertised in various GW products like White Dwarfs and promos. That's how close they were to release before cancellation. I always was sad we didn't get to see the next wave of weird units. Cathayan monks were one!
  • IconicIconic Posts: 364Registered Users
    I'd like to see them lean into the gearpunk side of the lore to make them distinct from the Empire.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    I really dislike alignment thing? Far too oversimplifies things.

    Forget Estalia, it's nuke fodder. Give me Jaego Roth to make actual pirate faction with.

    And I think it should be Lucrezzia instead of Marco. I think dead should stay dead.

    But he died shortly after Karl being chosen. i really liked Lucrezzia man, but there just so many character on Miragliano or near there so i choose him because of his siege capabilities which fit into WH2.

    Lucrezzia however i wouldn't want her to be like a Ghorts just adding poison to her army.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
    edited June 20

    I think you covered it all. Should be a more versatile Empire. There has to be some way that they are different from or not as good as Empire. Imperials should have a monopoly on really heavy knights (Reiksguard), demi-gryphs, and hellblasters/rocket batteries, steam-tanks. I feel like the mercenary mechanic should really **** the Southern Realms ability to field multiple armies. Like they should have one or two really good professional armies but not hordes of state paid soldiers like the Empire.

    And hats, really big ones with a lot of feathers. Can’t be a mercenary general without your pimp hat.

    hahahaha i agree you make valid points. (adding feathers to my roster)

    The Merc army function i recreated are slot based so for each Army stacks you can field 6 slots, when i say of the merc tab "up to t2" means that units can field up to 2 slots out of the 6. i want this factions to be specialized the units are better at doing what they do than Empire but lose very fast on the other so the armyes have to be balanced to battle any threat.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users

    I've yet to see a DoW roster, fan created or otherwise, that seems interesting.

    But we cant have monster on all of them, i think they offer something different and that more resembles historical humans fighting huge monsters.

    They are not Empire the way i want them units are more specialized in what they do and their armies can work in cohesion so no more Swrodmaster of Hoeth whit dragon army... this factions need to have balance on their roster or they will fail. yet cant field as many armies.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
    Iconic said:

    I'd like to see them lean into the gearpunk side of the lore to make them distinct from the Empire.

    I would like more of a Davinci role, you know those wood,metal machines that he did. less metal than the Empire.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
    Nyxilis said:

    Crossil said:

    I really dislike alignment thing? Far too oversimplifies things.

    Forget Estalia, it's nuke fodder. Give me Jaego Roth to make actual pirate faction with.

    And I think it should be Lucrezzia instead of Marco. I think dead should stay dead.

    Mostly agree with Crossil here, including on Marco. You could really substitute Pirazzo, I mean, the NWC already have his flag.
    Ok i read about them and i thought about them BUT here the thing.

    Pirazzo never established anything he just looted temples and fled to Araby so not exactly suited as a lord, Marco on the other hand he establised trading routes and traded whit the lizard and has friendly relations.

    As for Jaego Roth very interesting character but CA fudge it up, he based on Sartosa... and we know that Sartosa its a zombie capital now and he lives on a ship...

    Like i answer below i like Lucrezzia here the thing Borgio dies shortly after Karl being chosen so its good if its ot him i second Lorenzo Lupo. i really liked Lucrezzia man, but there just so many character on Miragliano or near there so i choose him because of his siege capabilities which fit into WH2.

    Lucrezzia however i wouldn't want her to be like a Ghorts just adding poison to her army. so it would be to similar.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
    edited June 20
    OdTengri said:

    I dislike @Unknown6203, A bunch of made up nonsense and it doesn't even seem that you've reflected on their generic army list that can be found in Warhammer Chronicles 2004.

    INFANTRY

    *Pikemen- Based on Pirazzo's Lost Legion Pikemen anti-Large good for holding defensive positions at gates etc. ot flanks


    Pikemen are already in their generic army list, they don't need to be based off of Pirazzos lost legion they can be based of their own entry that you seem oblivious to.

    Glaivers- They hold Glaives, anti large and better fighting melee than other spears, no shield.


    Made up nonsense. They do however have a unit wielding Halberds and wearing Heavy Armor in the form of the Paymasters Guard. Why Make up nonsense when their official sources already have better more faithful options.

    Rodeleros- Swordsmen whit round bucklers similar to Empire swords. BUT have 2 javelins.


    Duelists have 4 different weapons loadouts in the DOW generic army list, Rodeleros would be Duelists with Shields.

    Alsmorgavars- Skirmisher type whit javelins similar to Norscan but faster, has strong melee and charge. low health and armor.


    Made up nonsense.

    *Dueslist- based on Vespero's Vendetta DOW, one sword one dagger. stalk,anti infantry glass cannon.


    Again it's not necessary to base Duelists on Vesperos Vandetta, they have an entry in the DOW generic army list.

    They can come equipped in 4 ways, I suggest they be named respectively.

    Dual Weapons (Tilian Duelists) (Bonus Vs Infantry)
    Sword and Board (Estalian Rodeleros) (Bronze Shield, +MD)
    Sword and Pistol (Pirates of Sartosa) (Pistols like Emp Free Company)
    Sword and Throwing Knives (Cutthroats) (Like Corsairs w/Handbows)

    They'd have generally good MA and MD, low armor, and vanguard deployment. Depending on how you think about them they'd either be upgraded Empire Free Company with better combat stats (Pirates), or downgraded Dark Elf Corsairs with lower armor (Dual Weapons & Handbows). To differentiate the Throwing Knives form the Pistols I suggest giving the Throwing Knives 360 Firing Arcs, Fire while Moving and possibly Stalk.

    Vesperos Vandetta would have all the benefits of Dual Weapons, Shields, and Throwing Knives, plus Fear. As per their unit description.

    I could go on @Unknown6203 but for all your thinking you should have consulted their original source material. You might as well be saying that the Dwarfs should have Ram Cavalry just because you think it'd be neat.
    You dint read at all, i mean based on what i mean is looking similar to them. that why i put before "based on".

    The DOW units would still mean they we would still have Venators, Pizarros, Vendettas as "Regiment of renown" to all factions of the world Brettonia, Empire, etc. but souther realm would have priority.

    And Ram cavalry? like on the Hobbit? hell yeah! but they are not on Warhammer so no. makes me think how the hell Dwarfs move around up top whit their short stocky legs.... they would be the most horrible relief force they would take forever to arrive lol.

    Dude take it easy calm your hormones, made up nonsense are you daft? ALL OF IT MADE UP!!!! that the point of my list. Southern realms cant fight only using DOW list on TW its impossible they have to have a real roster.

    You must be a fan because your logic is way off.

    I know history an a lot, Glaivers (made up name beause they use the glaive) use Glaives European, Glaives are similar to billhooks but more curved and had a reverse hook to dismount and grab, used in medieval spain/france by Knights. Almorgavars are also historic they were from the mountains "strong hill folks" which interestingly enough on the lore of Estalia (based on Spain) mention some "rought hill folk" and i must add they were a unit formation in Spain during the reconquista they were skirmisher who used javelins, spears and a huge knife that resembles a Butcher knives but curved before battle they would strike flint stone creating sparks and chanted a very loud war chant before charging, they threw the javelins at knights killing the horse or puncturing Knight armor before closing in whit their knives to kill the horse and the rider. They were basically anti Knight cavalry.

    Also they are not called Dog of war.. you need to read slowly so you understand they are called SOUTHERN REALMS! as such i need to cater to 3 culture groups so they look similar which are Estalia,Tilea and Border princes they are not mercenary warbands like in Warhammer they are NATIONS.

    So no nonsense here they are based on historical data.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 2,907Registered Users

    Crossil said:

    I really dislike alignment thing? Far too oversimplifies things.

    Forget Estalia, it's nuke fodder. Give me Jaego Roth to make actual pirate faction with.

    And I think it should be Lucrezzia instead of Marco. I think dead should stay dead.

    But he died shortly after Karl being chosen. i really liked Lucrezzia man, but there just so many character on Miragliano or near there so i choose him because of his siege capabilities which fit into WH2.

    Lucrezzia however i wouldn't want her to be like a Ghorts just adding poison to her army.
    No, he's been dead for nearly 1,000 years in the setting. He's almost a carbon copy of the real world Columbus in that he discovered the "New World" in 1492. The game is supposedly set around the date of 2502.

    Lucrezzia is their only choice for a caster lord, unless you want someone like Hengus the Druid elevated to LL status. And she wouldn't necessarily have to grant poison to her whole army, maybe just embedded heroes. But it is a good trait, and it's been duplicated once before with Khalida.
    Talmorean said:

    Give me Asarnil the Dragonlord as a DOW LL.

    Just to **** Elf Haters off.

    High Elves are simply better than you.

    Honestly, it'd be really funny if the only HE LL with a Dragon mount belonged to the DoW and not the HE. I think we'd hear more complaints from Elf fanboys if they included him.

    Unknown, @OdTengri said it best; this looks like you didn't consult the source material at all. Even Vampire Coast was based on an existing list, so there's no reason to build them from scratch. With that said, here's my take on what it could look like:
    Lords
    Mercenary General

    Heroes
    Mercenary Captain
    Hireling Wizard*
    Paymaster
    Cutthroat**
    * I think a cool thing to do for the Hireling Wizard would be to use the skins and models of wizards from minor factions that have very little chance of becoming their own races in TW like Amazons or Albion. So for example a Lore of Life Wizard might use the Albion Truthsayer model, a Lore of Shadow or Lore of Death Wizard might use the Dark Emissary model, and a Lore of Beasts Wizard might use the Amazon Serpent Priestess model. It'd be a cool way to add an exotic touch of flavor to the roster while simultaneously paying homage to those minor races.
    **Technically not part of the list, but would certainly fit the flavor of DoW. Also, Sartosan Cutthroats were mentioned in a lore blurb in the 8th ed Monstrous Arcanum supplement


    Most units in their roster have a RoR cognate listed in parentheses next to them. I also separated out unit variants as CA would do based on the available options in the rules.
    Melee Infantry
    Pikemen- (Alcatani Fellowship)
    Armored Pikemen- (Leopold's Leopard Company)
    Paymaster's Bodyguard- (Ricco's Republican Guard)
    Duellists*- (Vespero's Vendetta)
    Duellists with bucklers
    Halfling Spearmen
    Dwarf Prospectors**
    * All duellist variants should also be equipped with throwing knives
    ** Basically just an improved Miners unit to give them some Vanguard and AP options

    Missile Infantry
    Tilean Marksmen- (Marksmen of Miragliano)
    Siege Marksmen- (Braganza's Besiegers)
    Legionnaires*- (Pirazzo's Lost Legion)
    Duellists with pistols
    Halfling Scouts- (Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks)
    Norscan Hunters**
    Birdmen- (Birdmen of Catrazza)
    * Armed with both pikes and crossbows
    ** Marauders were part of the original list, but I think they'd be more in need of missile variants than melee infantry

    Melee Cavalry
    Hedge Knights- (Knights Encarmine)

    Shock Cavalry
    Freelancers- (Voland's Venators)

    Missile Cavalry
    Free Riders- (Al Muktar's Desert Dogs)

    Artillery
    Horse Artillery- (Bronzino's Galloper Guns)
    Stone Thrower- (Halfling Hot Pot)

    Monsters
    Ogre Maneaters- (Golgfag's Ogres/Ol' Funder's Boys)
    Ogre Maneaters with great weapons
    Fenbeast
    Mercenary Giant*- (Giants of Albion)
    *Technically not part of the official list, but being the most prolific monster in the game, it seemed to fit.

    Other Official Regiments of Renown : Perhaps instead of traditional RoR, these could be based on provincial recruitment. I listed the approximate areas where they'd be available in parentheses.
    Tichi Huichi's Raiders (Southlands)
    Mengil Manhide's Manflayers (Naggaroth)
    The Cursed Company (Empire)
    Anakonda's Amazons (Lustria)
    Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz (World's Edge Mountains)
    Ruglud's Armored Orcs (Badlands)
    Malakai Makaisson's Goblin Hewer (World's Edge Mountains)
    Asarnil the Dragonlord (Ulthuan)
    Long Drong's Slayer Pirates (Sartosa)
    Bearmen of Urslo (Norsca)


    90% of this list comes straight from the DoW generic list found in WD and WH Chronicles. Here's the link: http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1412/59/1412599710057.pdf . I altered some generic unit names to more interesting ones, like "Heavy Cavalry" and "Light Cavalry" to "Freelancers/Hedge Knights" and "Free Riders." I also changed up a few units like Norscan Marauders and Dwarf Warriors for units that'd add some variety in the list. It probably shouldn't be possible to form a front line of just those units anyways. Finally, I extrapolated some units based on a few RoRs that should probably be more ubiquitous than just a one-off RoR like Birdmen, SIege Marksmen, and Horse Artillery.
    Keep Grombrindal in KaK, K8P should be 10 slots, Dogs of War should be a horde, DoC should be one race- Change my mind

    Give us a Slayer Hero!
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
    Nyxilis said:

    @eomat I don't think he fits as a LL for the Dogs, especially if as it will likely happen the DoW will share their roster with the Southern Realms. Asarnil was always an RoR afaik and should remain so, I think there are explicit entries in the Dogs of War armybook for actual LL's.

    I agree, he had a dragon. And that was his sales pitch, not his leadership of armies. But I have a dragon. So yeah, he'd be a LH sort of RoR. Since he didn't lead armies anymore, not welcomed at home and the leaders of Tilea were just hiring him for once more, because he's got a dragon. Rather than leadership. If not leading themselves like Borgio they were using hiring someone like Pirazzo, and that's @Crossil is why I often suggest him. If we're talking 4 LL they're going to be looking for ones that they send over the world. They've done that with all the Warhammer 2 factions and I expect them to continue it into Warhammer 3. Hence Pirazzo over in the New World. Which is something he did, and I think if one agrees or not CA might be thinking the same thing hence they used his standard there. And Pirazzo has in lore lead expeditionary forces. And specifically is a name associated with the DoW from their main book rather than Dreadfleet. Not that I would oppose him really, that's different from what I think they might do.

    Also, DoW sharing with Southern Realms isn't really the right way of saying it. First, lets ditch "Southern Realms" because that's a made up term by CA. And the BP and Estalia were really nonthings to the DoW lore. Nor are they the same entities the same as Tilea. BP are barely anything and microversions of all the big powers, Bretonnia, Empire, Vampire enclaves, and yeah, a few Tilean style points. But main thing they're all over the place. Estalia tended to recruit in a more focussed means but really Estalia is a nonentity most of the lore, not as wealthy as Tilea, as militarily strong, as advanced, or really do they have the vast trade networks and exploration jive that is the theme of Tilea. It's Tilea, and Tilea uses the DoW as it's army. Tilean habites of piracy, privateering, exploration, raiding, colonization, trading, and mercenary armies. This is why a large chunk of the DoW are Tilean in origin. None of the city states of Tilea did not keep full standing armies, and this is why these two go hand and hand. And if they ever do make the DoW they will probably be exclusive to Tilea and Tilean colonies and trade routes.

    The DoW are already a fleshed out army for all sorts of basic needs and would be mostly hedging on the side game of interesting RoR and legendary heros that fill it. If they want to dig for units GW was on the edge of releasing a new row of things for them before they were cancelled for balance reasons. They were advertised in various GW products like White Dwarfs and promos. That's how close they were to release before cancellation. I always was sad we didn't get to see the next wave of weird units. Cathayan monks were one!
    the thing is we need Southern Realms DOW are just merc warbands, which in tabletop make sense, but here it doesn't since we are talking about nations

    we cant compare TT whit TW, they are too different worlds for TW we need nations whit troop types to hold territory.

    Full standing army comment you made, if you read again my mercenary tab idea, there are 6 Slots per army to fill whit mercs so the army would be about 30% mercs. not including the regiment of renown mercs of DoW.

    We need to look a thing objectively using lore as reference. the Ancient city of Tylos was founded by a man that wa ssaved by Myrmidia as such he build the city and a huge tower that supposed to have reached the sky to the gods Myrmidia being humble dislike this and left him something happened that the city felt into ruined (Skaven) she returned and led her people East and West which founded Tile and Estalia respectively they are realted and even more so whit the Cult of Myrmidia which is in Magritta.

    Southern Realms are related to Dog of War but not the same i build the list whit Southern realms in mind. Dog of war however as a faction they wont fit in, if you guys want to see DOW you must likley will see it similar to my lines. that why ,my tittle is Southern Realm and not Dog of War.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users
    edited June 20
    Ol_Nessie said:

    Crossil said:

    I really dislike alignment thing? Far too oversimplifies things.

    Forget Estalia, it's nuke fodder. Give me Jaego Roth to make actual pirate faction with.

    And I think it should be Lucrezzia instead of Marco. I think dead should stay dead.

    But he died shortly after Karl being chosen. i really liked Lucrezzia man, but there just so many character on Miragliano or near there so i choose him because of his siege capabilities which fit into WH2.

    Lucrezzia however i wouldn't want her to be like a Ghorts just adding poison to her army.
    No, he's been dead for nearly 1,000 years in the setting. He's almost a carbon copy of the real world Columbus in that he discovered the "New World" in 1492. The game is supposedly set around the date of 2502.

    Lucrezzia is their only choice for a caster lord, unless you want someone like Hengus the Druid elevated to LL status. And she wouldn't necessarily have to grant poison to her whole army, maybe just embedded heroes. But it is a good trait, and it's been duplicated once before with Khalida.
    Talmorean said:

    Give me Asarnil the Dragonlord as a DOW LL.

    Just to **** Elf Haters off.

    High Elves are simply better than you.

    Honestly, it'd be really funny if the only HE LL with a Dragon mount belonged to the DoW and not the HE. I think we'd hear more complaints from Elf fanboys if they included him.

    Unknown, @OdTengri said it best; this looks like you didn't consult the source material at all. Even Vampire Coast was based on an existing list, so there's no reason to build them from scratch. With that said, here's my take on what it could look like:
    Lords
    Mercenary General

    Heroes
    Mercenary Captain
    Hireling Wizard*
    Paymaster
    Cutthroat**
    * I think a cool thing to do for the Hireling Wizard would be to use the skins and models of wizards from minor factions that have very little chance of becoming their own races in TW like Amazons or Albion. So for example a Lore of Life Wizard might use the Albion Truthsayer model, a Lore of Shadow or Lore of Death Wizard might use the Dark Emissary model, and a Lore of Beasts Wizard might use the Amazon Serpent Priestess model. It'd be a cool way to add an exotic touch of flavor to the roster while simultaneously paying homage to those minor races.
    **Technically not part of the list, but would certainly fit the flavor of DoW. Also, Sartosan Cutthroats were mentioned in a lore blurb in the 8th ed Monstrous Arcanum supplement


    Most units in their roster have a RoR cognate listed in parentheses next to them. I also separated out unit variants as CA would do based on the available options in the rules.
    Melee Infantry
    Pikemen- (Alcatani Fellowship)
    Armored Pikemen- (Leopold's Leopard Company)
    Paymaster's Bodyguard- (Ricco's Republican Guard)
    Duellists*- (Vespero's Vendetta)
    Duellists with bucklers
    Halfling Spearmen
    Dwarf Prospectors**
    * All duellist variants should also be equipped with throwing knives
    ** Basically just an improved Miners unit to give them some Vanguard and AP options

    Missile Infantry
    Tilean Marksmen- (Marksmen of Miragliano)
    Siege Marksmen- (Braganza's Besiegers)
    Legionnaires*- (Pirazzo's Lost Legion)
    Duellists with pistols
    Halfling Scouts- (Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks)
    Norscan Hunters**
    Birdmen- (Birdmen of Catrazza)
    * Armed with both pikes and crossbows
    ** Marauders were part of the original list, but I think they'd be more in need of missile variants than melee infantry

    Melee Cavalry
    Hedge Knights- (Knights Encarmine)

    Shock Cavalry
    Freelancers- (Voland's Venators)

    Missile Cavalry
    Free Riders- (Al Muktar's Desert Dogs)

    Artillery
    Horse Artillery- (Bronzino's Galloper Guns)
    Stone Thrower- (Halfling Hot Pot)

    Monsters
    Ogre Maneaters- (Golgfag's Ogres/Ol' Funder's Boys)
    Ogre Maneaters with great weapons
    Fenbeast
    Mercenary Giant*- (Giants of Albion)
    *Technically not part of the official list, but being the most prolific monster in the game, it seemed to fit.

    Other Official Regiments of Renown : Perhaps instead of traditional RoR, these could be based on provincial recruitment. I listed the approximate areas where they'd be available in parentheses.
    Tichi Huichi's Raiders (Southlands)
    Mengil Manhide's Manflayers (Naggaroth)
    The Cursed Company (Empire)
    Anakonda's Amazons (Lustria)
    Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz (World's Edge Mountains)
    Ruglud's Armored Orcs (Badlands)
    Malakai Makaisson's Goblin Hewer (World's Edge Mountains)
    Asarnil the Dragonlord (Ulthuan)
    Long Drong's Slayer Pirates (Sartosa)
    Bearmen of Urslo (Norsca)


    90% of this list comes straight from the DoW generic list found in WD and WH Chronicles. Here's the link: http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1412/59/1412599710057.pdf . I altered some generic unit names to more interesting ones, like "Heavy Cavalry" and "Light Cavalry" to "Freelancers/Hedge Knights" and "Free Riders." I also changed up a few units like Norscan Marauders and Dwarf Warriors for units that'd add some variety in the list. It probably shouldn't be possible to form a front line of just those units anyways. Finally, I extrapolated some units based on a few RoRs that should probably be more ubiquitous than just a one-off RoR like Birdmen, SIege Marksmen, and Horse Artillery.
    I swear do people even read? i said Borgio!!! not Marco. this is nothing like my list man....i am more realistic i am not a Warhammer fan i am a historical one, as such Glaviers, Almogovars Pikemen, Crossbows, Pavise etc i put them it because during medieval era on Spain and Italy they were common along whit some light reading on the Nations and some forums which i posted above. the link you provided i never seen and after reading don't agree whit that list.

    90%?? you crazy? Free Riders?Stone Thrower?Halfling Spearmen? Cutthroat??Dwarf Prospectors??Giants of Albion?? Fenbeast??? as Regiment of renown maybe but NOT FOR SOUTHER REALMS. i thought of putting ogres i due to their mercenary nature but we wont see them until WH3, so i wanted to put Ogree whit two handed weapons similar how troll works on WH shock troops i wanted them on the Merc tab mechanic but i was unsure that why i dint put them in.I don't have any Warhammer material what i read is on the Warhammer wikia site.

    If you are the Estalian Faction, you are recruiting Giants of Albion on Estalia???? makes no damned sense.

    About Marco I don't know he was dead so long ago Marco i mean, good point clarifying up. damn ti i need a 4 leader now in that area. we can also make him up like Cylostra.

    Before you start attacking, Monsters don't fit it at all whit Southern Realms my list is for SOUTHERN REALMS not DoW. DoW are in my list basically Regiment of renown i am talking about Southern Realms as Nations

    If you guys want a DoW like tabletop i am pretty sure you will never see them on WH, need to be realistic.
  • Unknown6203Unknown6203 Posts: 500Registered Users

    Crossil said:

    I really dislike alignment thing? Far too oversimplifies things.

    Forget Estalia, it's nuke fodder. Give me Jaego Roth to make actual pirate faction with.

    And I think it should be Lucrezzia instead of Marco. I think dead should stay dead.

    But Borgia died shortly after Karl being chosen. i really liked Lucrezzia man, but there just so many character on Miragliano or near there so i choose him because of his siege capabilities which fit into WH2.

    Lucrezzia however i wouldn't want her to be like a Ghorts just adding poison to her army.

    Also about Estalia, i disagree Estalia hold the headquarters for the Cult of Myrmidia its on Magritta also their position there its great, its near Ulthuan,Brettonia duchys,Skavenblight next to them and Southland below them. Brettonia almost doesn't have any Rivals near the Empire are Allies i think a faction there on Estalia would be awesome
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,203Registered Users
    As long as I can recruit as many RoR as I want I'm down for DoW.

    Slayer pirate horde with Birdmen and Ogres yes please.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 2,725Registered Users

    Nyxilis said:

    @eomat I don't think he fits as a LL for the Dogs, especially if as it will likely happen the DoW will share their roster with the Southern Realms. Asarnil was always an RoR afaik and should remain so, I think there are explicit entries in the Dogs of War armybook for actual LL's.

    I agree, he had a dragon. And that was his sales pitch, not his leadership of armies. But I have a dragon. So yeah, he'd be a LH sort of RoR. Since he didn't lead armies anymore, not welcomed at home and the leaders of Tilea were just hiring him for once more, because he's got a dragon. Rather than leadership. If not leading themselves like Borgio they were using hiring someone like Pirazzo, and that's @Crossil is why I often suggest him. If we're talking 4 LL they're going to be looking for ones that they send over the world. They've done that with all the Warhammer 2 factions and I expect them to continue it into Warhammer 3. Hence Pirazzo over in the New World. Which is something he did, and I think if one agrees or not CA might be thinking the same thing hence they used his standard there. And Pirazzo has in lore lead expeditionary forces. And specifically is a name associated with the DoW from their main book rather than Dreadfleet. Not that I would oppose him really, that's different from what I think they might do.

    Also, DoW sharing with Southern Realms isn't really the right way of saying it. First, lets ditch "Southern Realms" because that's a made up term by CA. And the BP and Estalia were really nonthings to the DoW lore. Nor are they the same entities the same as Tilea. BP are barely anything and microversions of all the big powers, Bretonnia, Empire, Vampire enclaves, and yeah, a few Tilean style points. But main thing they're all over the place. Estalia tended to recruit in a more focussed means but really Estalia is a nonentity most of the lore, not as wealthy as Tilea, as militarily strong, as advanced, or really do they have the vast trade networks and exploration jive that is the theme of Tilea. It's Tilea, and Tilea uses the DoW as it's army. Tilean habites of piracy, privateering, exploration, raiding, colonization, trading, and mercenary armies. This is why a large chunk of the DoW are Tilean in origin. None of the city states of Tilea did not keep full standing armies, and this is why these two go hand and hand. And if they ever do make the DoW they will probably be exclusive to Tilea and Tilean colonies and trade routes.

    The DoW are already a fleshed out army for all sorts of basic needs and would be mostly hedging on the side game of interesting RoR and legendary heros that fill it. If they want to dig for units GW was on the edge of releasing a new row of things for them before they were cancelled for balance reasons. They were advertised in various GW products like White Dwarfs and promos. That's how close they were to release before cancellation. I always was sad we didn't get to see the next wave of weird units. Cathayan monks were one!
    the thing is we need Southern Realms DOW are just merc warbands, which in tabletop make sense, but here it doesn't since we are talking about nations

    we cant compare TT whit TW, they are too different worlds for TW we need nations whit troop types to hold territory.

    Full standing army comment you made, if you read again my mercenary tab idea, there are 6 Slots per army to fill whit mercs so the army would be about 30% mercs. not including the regiment of renown mercs of DoW.

    We need to look a thing objectively using lore as reference. the Ancient city of Tylos was founded by a man that wa ssaved by Myrmidia as such he build the city and a huge tower that supposed to have reached the sky to the gods Myrmidia being humble dislike this and left him something happened that the city felt into ruined (Skaven) she returned and led her people East and West which founded Tile and Estalia respectively they are realted and even more so whit the Cult of Myrmidia which is in Magritta.

    Southern Realms are related to Dog of War but not the same i build the list whit Southern realms in mind. Dog of war however as a faction they wont fit in, if you guys want to see DOW you must likley will see it similar to my lines. that why ,my tittle is Southern Realm and not Dog of War.
    Missed the point, Southern Realms is just a term CA made up to dump the NOT EMPIRE/BRETTONNIA human lands into. DoW are merc warbands, however, Tilea used them exclusively. This is what's not getting across. Tilea does not keep a standing army. They use mercenary warbands only. This was modeled after Italian city state condottieri armies. These were a real thing, and the Tilean city states were modeled after them. This is why all the lords for the DoW were from Tilea. Tilea does not have an army without the Dogs of War. Listen to these words.

    So Tilean forces would be 100% Dogs of War.

    And the reason you should not build with Southern Realms in mind is once more that is a CA made up term to dump the remaining human lands. Border Princes are microstates that use their respective army types they're based on. If vampire enclave they use the dead, if the Empire settlements they use their militias, Brettonia minifeifs use peasants and the like two knights they have. The Tilean colonies used the Dogs of War. The Border Princes are nothing.

    Which is the thing. The Southern Realms are Estalia, never had the money, prestige, or exploration of Tilea. Border Princes are basically the Somalia of Total Warhammer. No real government between any of them and none of them are true powers or cities.

    So Dogs of War fit in super easy. You use Tilean city states, and they use the Dogs of War as their army. 100% of their army. Because that is what they did.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 2,907Registered Users

    I swear do people even read? i said Borgio!!! not Marco. this is nothing like my list man....i am more realistic i am not a Warhammer fan i am a historical one, as such Glaviers, Almogovars Pikemen, Crossbows, Pavise etc i put them it because during medieval era on Spain and Italy they were common along whit some light reading on the Nations and some forums which i posted above. the link you provided i never seen and after reading don't agree whit that list.

    90%?? you crazy? Free Riders?Stone Thrower?Halfling Spearmen? Cutthroat??Dwarf Prospectors??Giants of Albion?? Fenbeast??? as Regiment of renown maybe but NOT FOR SOUTHER REALMS. i thought of putting ogres i due to their mercenary nature but we wont see them until WH3, so i wanted to put Ogree whit two handed weapons similar how troll works on WH shock troops i wanted them on the Merc tab mechanic but i was unsure that why i dint put them in.I don't have any Warhammer material what i read is on the Warhammer wikia site.

    If you are the Estalian Faction, you are recruiting Giants of Albion on Estalia???? makes no damned sense.

    About Marco I don't know he was dead so long ago Marco i mean, good point clarifying up. damn ti i need a 4 leader now in that area. we can also make him up like Cylostra.

    Before you start attacking, Monsters don't fit it at all whit Southern Realms my list is for SOUTHERN REALMS not DoW. DoW are in my list basically Regiment of renown i am talking about Southern Realms as Nations

    If you guys want a DoW like tabletop i am pretty sure you will never see them on WH, need to be realistic.

    Dude, first of all, take a chill pill. We're talking about a video game here, not politics or whatever else gets people angry.

    Second, "Southern Realms" is a made up term, it doesn't appear anywhere in GW publications. CA invented it so they could fit Tilea, Estalia, and Border Princes into a broad category in the Diplomacy tab. In reality, they're all not part of the same race in the way that Empire Provinces are.

    Third, this is not a historical game, this is Warhammer so CA needs to base any content they do on stuff that existed on the TT. All the stuff you suggested sounds exactly like those fanmade army books which just copy/paste the tropes of real world countries and call it a race. There's little imagination there compared to GW's IP (which is really saying something honestly).

    Fourth, if we're talking about a race in the general vicinity of the area we're talking about, there is really only one source that is large and comprehensive enough to function as a race in TW:WH, and that's the Dogs of War. Tilea and Dogs of War go hand in hand since most of the lore surrounding Tilea comes from the Dogs of War army book and it's clearly stated that the armies of the Tilean City-States are composed almost entirely of mercenaries. Whatever direction CA could potentially take this race, one thing is certain; the Dogs of War won't just be a mechanic or an after-thought, they'll be the primary defining focus and they'll BE the roster for the race.

    Finally, I invite you to follow the link I provided in my earlier comment. That roster is about as official as they come for all things concerning DoW, but it predates a few other additions the DoW in the following years. Yes, I changed some unit names and made some logical additions so they'd be in keeping with the current lore of the game but I took far fewer liberties than you did with your list.

    The Fenbeast was added to the DoW range of models following the Dark Shadows (Albion) supplement, and the Giants of Albion come from the DoW army book. Halflings are specifically listed in the link I provided and they could be equipped with bows or spears. Dwarfs are also listed, but I didn't think it was appropriate for DoW to be able to recruit an entire front line of Dwarf Warriors so I suggested a unit that has more of an auxiliary role and a Miner/Prospector is exactly the type of Dwarf you'd expect to see out adventuring. "Free Riders" is just a more colorful name for Light Cavalry, which are a bona fide unit in the DoW list.

    If you want, you can educate yourself by reading up on them. Follow this link which will let you read the WH Chronicles publications that explain in detail what they actually are.
    Keep Grombrindal in KaK, K8P should be 10 slots, Dogs of War should be a horde, DoC should be one race- Change my mind

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  • AbmongAbmong Posts: 698Registered Users
    As much as I want DoW, I have a feeling they will come out last out of all the race packs, just because they draw units from pretty much all other factions. I don't see CA giving them Ogre and Hobgoblins before Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs are release.

    As for the roster itself. They should get only the very basic units in tier 1. Standard sword, standard crossbow, standard handgunners, Pike tercios instead of spears just to distinguish a bit from the emps. Tier 2 and above should be Mecenary/RoRs. Tier 2, the unilimited or more common RoR where you can hire more than one of each (mayb still with some limitations). Tier 3, the named true RoRs from DoW army book (only one of each)
    Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Monkey kingdom DLC) :#
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 3,246Registered Users
    Borgio is alive for a year after Karl Franz's coronation, same as how Boris Bokha is alive for another 20 years or so after that and Azhag goes on to do his Waaagh during his reign as well. Even Marius Letdorf technically dies later on in 2520 or so.

    Dead should stay dead but those who were alive during the start date are free game as everything after that point in time can change in this scenario.

    While you guys like to push the idea that it will be Dogs of War race I think that's nonsensical. Mercenaries only exist as "race" because of their employers so the employers are the basis of that race, aka SR. Second, you would essentially be leaving Estalia and the Border Princes as Empire clones or just downgraded versions of "DoW" with only basic units. I think it would be better if Estalia was same as Tilea and Border princes should be fragmented into subfactions each belonging to a different culture(one Empire, one Bretonnian, one Kislevite, one SR, etc., with some more settlements). Estalia really isn't too different from Tilea, I think CA could get away with keeping the 2 in same race but I would like Border Princes broken up.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 2,907Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    Borgio is alive for a year after Karl Franz's coronation, same as how Boris Bokha is alive for another 20 years or so after that and Azhag goes on to do his Waaagh during his reign as well. Even Marius Letdorf technically dies later on in 2520 or so.

    Dead should stay dead but those who were alive during the start date are free game as everything after that point in time can change in this scenario.

    While you guys like to push the idea that it will be Dogs of War race I think that's nonsensical. Mercenaries only exist as "race" because of their employers so the employers are the basis of that race, aka SR. Second, you would essentially be leaving Estalia and the Border Princes as Empire clones or just downgraded versions of "DoW" with only basic units. I think it would be better if Estalia was same as Tilea and Border princes should be fragmented into subfactions each belonging to a different culture(one Empire, one Bretonnian, one Kislevite, one SR, etc., with some more settlements). Estalia really isn't too different from Tilea, I think CA could get away with keeping the 2 in same race but I would like Border Princes broken up.

    I'd be totally fine with Estalia using the same roster as Tilea, so long as that roster is the DoW. Like Tilea, Estalia also heavily depends on mercenaries to fight their battles and they're mentioned here and there in the DoW source material. I also like that idea for BP. Another take might be to make one roster for the BP which is kind of a mashup of various militia-type units from the other human nations in addition to some mercenary units. So maybe you'd have peasant archers, free companies, mounted yeomen, pikemen, pistoliers, and the odd cannon or trebuchet.

    Just from a marketing standpoint, I don't think they'd name the race "Southern Realms." First, if we get them at all they'll either be the preorder bonus for WH3 (thus playable on WH2) or they'll be a WH3 DLC. Either way, "Southern Realms" aren't really featured on either standalone campaign. Second, "Southern Realms" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "Dogs of War" and it probably wouldn't get people as excited for it than if they called it Dogs of War.
    Keep Grombrindal in KaK, K8P should be 10 slots, Dogs of War should be a horde, DoC should be one race- Change my mind

    Give us a Slayer Hero!
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