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This game can see legendary endings in just 20 turns!

nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
edited June 20 in General Discussion







(Players do not have to watch all of these video, but developers must have to look at them.)


Yesterday, a great Korean player uploaded a speed run video and everyone was shocked.
He used only 20 turns to watch the Ending, Even this was done on double legendary difficulty.

Of course, he does not use any mods or cheats, only used in-game bugs and broken balance.


There are three exploit points to be aware of on this topic.

- Broken unit balance : Troops can never kill Hero.
- Heroes without troops can be relocate anywhere for FREE. Even Lu Bu.
- When all heroes of the legion are relocated, all conditions recovered, and all movement point is initialized.

so abnormal fast movement possible.

The player who finds this is great, but why is there such a hole in the game?
This is a problem that needs to be fixed urgently.
Post edited by nephlite on
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Comments

  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    In my opinion,
    - the hero without troops must receive big morale penalty.
    - some basic cost must be consumed for hero relocation.
    - movement point initialization bugs should be fixed of course.
  • tadakatsutadakatsu Junior Member Posts: 355Registered Users
    obviously militia struggle with heroes but to say troops can never kill hero is flat out wrong. mid tier to elite armor piercing units destroy heroes
  • meowJaguarmeowJaguar Posts: 1Registered Users
    I have seen my heroes got killed by infantry units several times in romance mode even tho they were just militias and if you just play historical mode then you'll be able to kill heroes more easily.
    Peronally, for playing historical TTW since medieval 2, I dont think powerful heroes are imba since SAGA gave us 2 options to play this game with.
  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    edited June 20
    @meowJaguar
    It is not the point of this thread. The point is that possible to play use only the heroes without troops.
    This is a clear planning flaw.
  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 3,149Registered Users
    nephlite said:

    @meowJaguar
    It is not the point of this thread. The point is that possible to play use only the heroes without troops.
    This is a clear planning flaw.

    Of course it's possible. People has been doing the speed runs for many games already, not just this one. However, surely this not the optimal way to enjoy the game, isn't it?

  • ComradCommodoreComradCommodore Senior Member Posts: 363Registered Users
    I don't understand how this is a flaw exactly?

    Don't play the game that way and it won't happen in your game lol ?
  • johncagejohncage Posts: 193Registered Users
    romance=fantasy. if you want realistic(semi realism) play records. don't complain about problems you inflict on yourself
  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    @ComradCommodore
    Wow That sounds like you don't need any patches in the future.
  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    edited June 20
    @johncage
    so Is it normal for a game to be cleared at 20 turn in 'Fantasy'?
    There is no connection between Broken balance and the Fantasy theme.
  • tqhung87tqhung87 Senior Member Posts: 394Registered Users
    johncage said:

    romance=fantasy. if you want realistic(semi realism) play records. don't complain about problems you inflict on yourself

    You know you can kill as much units with the bodyguards or even more than the single hero, right?
  • street_regulatorstreet_regulator Posts: 115Registered Users
    "just don't play that way then" has to be the silliest response to imbalance that I've ever heard
  • KOR_DCKOR_DC Posts: 5Registered Users
    Is this a game?
  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    I'm just posing the imbalance problem,
    but some people understand it as a problem between romance and record.

    What is wrong with you?
    cause have any grudge on romance mode?
  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 642Registered Users

    It's not a balance problem. More like oversights which some ingenious people discovered.

    Thanks for the heads up -- this should provide an interesting list of required fixes for the devs;; lol
  • ComradCommodoreComradCommodore Senior Member Posts: 363Registered Users
    edited June 20
    nephlite said:

    I'm just posing the imbalance problem,
    but some people understand it as a problem between romance and record.

    What is wrong with you?
    cause have any grudge on romance mode?

    Because it is an issue of Romance vs Records. The whole point of Romance is for the heros to be OP

    As for the person exploiting the system , just don't exploit it?
  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 642Registered Users

    Because it is an issue of Romance vs Records. The whole point of Romance is for the heros to be OP

    As for the person exploiting the system , just don't exploit it?

    Well to be fair, the pointers on some re-deployment costs and stuff... do need to be fixed, so I think that much is valid.

    Romance mode and heroes -- I agree with you. It feels a lot like sort of exploiting in bad-taste in regards to the very early-game situation where nobody has a sizable army at all.

  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 642Registered Users
    I mean, generals like Guan Yu and Zhang Fei are praised as being so powerful that each of them "can face 10,000 men" -- and this kind of high praise is cited in the official records, not the novel. (Of course it does not literally mean they can fight 10,000 vs 1)

    So if Romance mode featured strong characters any weaker than what we have now... I think a lot of ppl might have been actually disappointed.

    Besides, the LiuGuanZhang trio are exceptionally powerful at the beginning of the game since the trio of generals synergize with each other so well + relationship bonuses. Try only using Zhang Fei in the same situation early on and you'll see Zhang Fei routing very often due to initially low morale stat.

    So those three are a bit of a special case IMO.
  • KOR_DCKOR_DC Posts: 5Registered Users
    i think point is not strong hero

    real point is it

    - When all heroes of the legion are relocated, all conditions recovered, and all movement point is initialized.

    so abnormal fast movement possible.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Posts: 990Registered Users
    It was possible to get a victory in Rome 2 in like 2 turns by abusing the mechanics.

    So 20 turns for an ending in Romance mode is actually pretty slow if you ask me
  • KOR_DCKOR_DC Posts: 5Registered Users
    Rewan said:

    It was possible to get a victory in Rome 2 in like 2 turns by abusing the mechanics.

    So 20 turns for an ending in Romance mode is actually pretty slow if you ask me


    it's not developer's design

    it's exploit
  • SchusselSchussel Posts: 721Registered Users
    nephlite said:

    I'm just posing the imbalance problem,
    but some people understand it as a problem between romance and record.

    What is wrong with you?
    cause have any grudge on romance mode?

    No you are not posting an imbalance/Balance problem

    It would be an imbalance/balance thing if it would be in multiplayer turnament where the game has to balanced and fair.

    For the singleplayer mode as long as you can win with any faction according to the difficulty rating its not an issue at all.
    I don't care if you can play like it was shown in the videos, because it wouldn't be any fun to playing that way

    I mean for any Tabletop game people make their own houserules and play them in their own way
    why the hell needs a single player pc game be restircted/balanced for just the sake of restricting/balancing
    the whole correction of this issue wouldn't benefit only player who get thier joy from the knowing of removed "exploits" and that the game " is balanced"
    I gues for most players who play the game just for having some fun this is just a non issue

  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    edited June 20
    [email protected]
    Well may not be understandable to you, but it is a characteristic of most Korean players.
    They are very competitive and sensitive, and regard all game content as a tool for superiority,
    So they aggressively use the exploitable elements. or aggressively reject.
    There are exceptions, but very few. I am also not different.

    Anyway that result, hundreds of arguments have arisen from this incident in Korean community.
  • QiangLordQiangLord Posts: 26Registered Users
    The vast, vast majority of players don't play with a speedrunner mentality. And speedrunners will always find the best exploits/cheap tricks. While I'm sure CA will continue to tweak balance, they wouldn't do it based on a speedrunner's approach to the game, but on how most people actually play the game.
  • Josh_CAJosh_CA Posts: 42Registered Users, CA Staff
    Thanks for raising this. I'm a big speedrunning fan, but we're also striving to make one of the best Total War experiences possible, and that includes fixing bugs and exploits.

    I'll make sure the devs are aware of this post (I've already seen QA having a look at it).
  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    Thanks Josh. This game is going to more advance
  • SchusselSchussel Posts: 721Registered Users
    nephlite said:

    [email protected]
    Well may not be understandable to you, but it is a characteristic of most Korean players.
    They are very competitive and sensitive, and regard all game content as a tool for superiority,
    So they aggressively use the exploitable elements. or aggressively reject.
    There are exceptions, but very few. I am also not different.

    Anyway that result, hundreds of arguments have arisen from this incident in Korean community.

    Okay but isn't that the problem only of the Koreans?
    this game is sold worldwide, there will always be people who find something "not good" in the game if you want to count in every feeling of every player from every country we will be playing tic tac toe.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Posts: 1,007Registered Users
    - some Korean players (less than 0.001% of all players) are super good at this game and finishes the game in 20 turns.
    - this is romance mode where heroes are supposed to be very powerful and the game achieved just that

    Ok so what's the problem here? Why should the game be balanced around speedrunners and not the regular folk?
  • nephlitenephlite Posts: 65Registered Users
    @Misaka_Complex
    This exploit does not require super techniques. 80% of this can be follow by normal player.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Posts: 1,007Registered Users
    nephlite said:

    @Misaka_Complex
    This exploit does not require super techniques. 80% of this can be follow by normal player.

    Do you have evidence to prove your argument that "normal players" are doing this? Why should the game be balanced around speed runners when the normal player doesn't play like a speed runner? Balancing the game around speed runners only result in hurting the gaming experience for the normal player, why balance the game just for less than 0.001% of the community at the expense of regular folks?
  • ComradCommodoreComradCommodore Senior Member Posts: 363Registered Users

    nephlite said:

    @Misaka_Complex
    This exploit does not require super techniques. 80% of this can be follow by normal player.

    Do you have evidence to prove your argument that "normal players" are doing this? Why should the game be balanced around speed runners when the normal player doesn't play like a speed runner? Balancing the game around speed runners only result in hurting the gaming experience for the normal player, why balance the game just for less than 0.001% of the community at the expense of regular folks?
    This is pretty much my stance on it

    People are always going to push the game to it's max limit and take advantage of mechanics, but IMO most people don't find that fun.

    I'd rather dev time be spent on other things then trying to fix what a couple of dudes in South Korea are doing
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