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Liu Bei

markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users
I am really disappointed with how CA have treated Liu Bei. It starts off ok but then goes fast downhill.

Lady Gan (she could be added as an ancillary as she was concubine, but give her the ability to have kids) should join as soon as you get the Tao Qian choice event as he met her whilst visiting that region.

Sun Qian was approached by his friend Zheng Xuan, who recommended he join Liu Bei after Tao Qian's death. He should join as a unique character when this event occurs.

Mi Zhu, Lady Mi, Cao Bao and Mi Fang should also join at this point in history as they were all serving Tao Qian at this time.

Liu Bei should get an event straight after Dong Zhou's event as traditionally Lu Bu left and asked Liu Bei for protection. Leading to betrayal by Cao Cao sending Liu Bei off and leading to the death of Cao Bao.

This would lead to Liu Bei appearing in Runan.

Upon arriving in Runan we should get Zhou Cang joining as he came there with Guan Yu.

Liao Hua and Chen Dao should also be available to hire at this point as legendary Vanguard and Sentinel too. I say legendary for both as Liao Hua was vanguard to both Guan Yu and Jiang Wei and somehow survived, and Chen Dao was rated as second best officer in Shu-Han after Zhao Yun.

This is also the point where Zhao Yun should join with his event.

Guan Yu and Zhang Fei should both get their wives too.

Too much of the story is missing. This does not apply to just Liu Bei though the same could be said of Cao Cao and others. All of this would help with the feel of the game, as Liu Bei was chased around the map by Cao Cao for years.

Comments

  • KoganesagaKoganesaga Posts: 87Registered Users
    This would be interesting, but as you said, nobody is well developed to such a point. To favor Liu Bei thing much would spark outrage and only lead to people asking for others to be so well developed. This is fine for some until you think about how some factions would have all these events happening and you have someone like Ma Teng who didn't really do all that much until Cao Cao came for his lands (I know Ma Teng was involved in the plot against Cao Cao, but that's not much) so he'd look very boring by comparison to the big 3. Besides, most of these characters would have the same problem that Dian Wei has: they would likely have a chance based recruitment event, though that in itself is a problem I have with the game as a whole. Please if someone who is reading this has the power, increase the chances for the recruitment events or give the player some kind of agency. There's no reason why the above mention Dian Wei wouldn't be serving Cao Cao by this point in the timeline, and I hate that he doesn't even seem to appear in the game if this very rare event doesn't occur.
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Posts: 1,722Registered Users
    You are forgetting that this game (like all Total War games) is a SAND BOX... meaning that you CAN follow how things went historically... or you can completely go an opposite direction.

    All of the characters and their factions could use more polish and development on their stories... especially Dong Zhuo and the fact that his faction doesn't split up as it should, thus allowing Cao Cao, Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu to squabble over the Central lands without worrying about an invasion from a unified force from Xiliang.

    Liu Bei isn't special in this... but he does need some improvements, particularly his building, the Shu-Han tax collection. I've already made a post about that, among several other things that should/need improving or changing (In my Opinion).

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/244966/liu-beis-shu-han-tax-administration-building#latest
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Posts: 1,018Registered Users
    Actually in the novel Zhou Cang joined a few pages before Zhao Yun, where he dueled Zhao Yun and got injured. If we were to talk about records both Liao Hua and Zhou Cang are fictional characters.
  • NeverSayDieNeverSayDie Posts: 34Registered Users
    Why not just have an option were historical events autofire around their historical/attributed date?

    Want to run an alternate timeline? Toggle it off in the options.

    Want to recruit Zhou yun or dain Wei without having to restart a campaign on turn 29 or 40 that went perfectly in every other respect? Toggle it on.

  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users
    edited June 20

    Actually in the novel Zhou Cang joined a few pages before Zhao Yun, where he dueled Zhao Yun and got injured. If we were to talk about records both Liao Hua and Zhou Cang are fictional characters.

    Liao Hua was not fictional. I also believe it was Pei Yuanshao who duelled Zhao Yun not Zhou Cang. Zhou Cang did not want to leave their men behind and went ahead with Guan Yu, saying he would return for Pei Yuanshao. Pei Yuanshao then went out and tried robbing Zhao Yun on his way to join Liu Bei and Zhao Yun fought him in a duel.
    Post edited by markp27 on
  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users
    edited June 20
    Liu Bei be

    Why not just have an option were historical events autofire around their historical/attributed date?

    Want to run an alternate timeline? Toggle it off in the options.

    Want to recruit Zhou yun or dain Wei without having to restart a campaign on turn 29 or 40 that went perfectly in every other respect? Toggle it on.

    That was kind of the point when they did the Three Kingdoms version and Records version from my understanding. The Three Kingdoms version is supposed to follow the story more.
  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users

    This would be interesting, but as you said, nobody is well developed to such a point. To favor Liu Bei thing much would spark outrage and only lead to people asking for others to be so well developed. This is fine for some until you think about how some factions would have all these events happening and you have someone like Ma Teng who didn't really do all that much until Cao Cao came for his lands (I know Ma Teng was involved in the plot against Cao Cao, but that's not much) so he'd look very boring by comparison to the big 3. Besides, most of these characters would have the same problem that Dian Wei has: they would likely have a chance based recruitment event, though that in itself is a problem I have with the game as a whole. Please if someone who is reading this has the power, increase the chances for the recruitment events or give the player some kind of agency. There's no reason why the above mention Dian Wei wouldn't be serving Cao Cao by this point in the timeline, and I hate that he doesn't even seem to appear in the game if this very rare event doesn't occur.

    Aye that was why I mentioned Cao Cao as well. I think there should be more triggers for characters such as Dian Wei, as in if they do not turn up by x date they appear in Cao Cao's recruitment pool.
  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users

    You are forgetting that this game (like all Total War games) is a SAND BOX... meaning that you CAN follow how things went historically... or you can completely go an opposite direction.

    All of the characters and their factions could use more polish and development on their stories... especially Dong Zhuo and the fact that his faction doesn't split up as it should, thus allowing Cao Cao, Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu to squabble over the Central lands without worrying about an invasion from a unified force from Xiliang.

    Liu Bei isn't special in this... but he does need some improvements, particularly his building, the Shu-Han tax collection. I've already made a post about that, among several other things that should/need improving or changing (In my Opinion).

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/244966/liu-beis-shu-han-tax-administration-building#latest

    I agree about other factions needing a polish, the problem is you will never get Liu Bei right historically as he went to serve under Yuan Shao for protection and Guan Yu went to Cao Cao. Now that would mess up the game :D Hence I missed out that section of the game with events :D
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Posts: 1,722Registered Users
    markp27 said:

    You are forgetting that this game (like all Total War games) is a SAND BOX... meaning that you CAN follow how things went historically... or you can completely go an opposite direction.

    All of the characters and their factions could use more polish and development on their stories... especially Dong Zhuo and the fact that his faction doesn't split up as it should, thus allowing Cao Cao, Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu to squabble over the Central lands without worrying about an invasion from a unified force from Xiliang.

    Liu Bei isn't special in this... but he does need some improvements, particularly his building, the Shu-Han tax collection. I've already made a post about that, among several other things that should/need improving or changing (In my Opinion).

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/244966/liu-beis-shu-han-tax-administration-building#latest

    I agree about other factions needing a polish, the problem is you will never get Liu Bei right historically as he went to serve under Yuan Shao for protection and Guan Yu went to Cao Cao. Now that would mess up the game :D Hence I missed out that section of the game with events :D
    Ah... I kinda meant like... as historically as we can get in the game :D like, you know when (and if) you fend off Cao Cao from Tao Qian, he dies of old age and his lands become yours... but then you get another mission to confederate with Liu Biao... and it's like huhhhh????? he's on the other side of Cao Cao...

    Forces you to make a decision: Do you give all the lands to Cao Cao and Kong Rong and move towards the Riverlands and close to Liu Biao... or do you conquer Cao Cao and completely obliterate any chance of him becoming the King of Wei :D

    We will probably never get even to 60% of historical accuracy... but we can try to make it as close as possible.
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users

    markp27 said:

    You are forgetting that this game (like all Total War games) is a SAND BOX... meaning that you CAN follow how things went historically... or you can completely go an opposite direction.

    All of the characters and their factions could use more polish and development on their stories... especially Dong Zhuo and the fact that his faction doesn't split up as it should, thus allowing Cao Cao, Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu to squabble over the Central lands without worrying about an invasion from a unified force from Xiliang.

    Liu Bei isn't special in this... but he does need some improvements, particularly his building, the Shu-Han tax collection. I've already made a post about that, among several other things that should/need improving or changing (In my Opinion).

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/244966/liu-beis-shu-han-tax-administration-building#latest

    I agree about other factions needing a polish, the problem is you will never get Liu Bei right historically as he went to serve under Yuan Shao for protection and Guan Yu went to Cao Cao. Now that would mess up the game :D Hence I missed out that section of the game with events :D
    Ah... I kinda meant like... as historically as we can get in the game :D like, you know when (and if) you fend off Cao Cao from Tao Qian, he dies of old age and his lands become yours... but then you get another mission to confederate with Liu Biao... and it's like huhhhh????? he's on the other side of Cao Cao...

    Forces you to make a decision: Do you give all the lands to Cao Cao and Kong Rong and move towards the Riverlands and close to Liu Biao... or do you conquer Cao Cao and completely obliterate any chance of him becoming the King of Wei :D

    We will probably never get even to 60% of historical accuracy... but we can try to make it as close as possible.
    I tried that and did not work :( Travelled down to Runan, and had to fight one of LIu Biao''s two vassals to get Runan made it my capital and gave all my land away and then Liu Biao would not ally with me :(

    In fact he declared war on me instead :D
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Posts: 1,722Registered Users
    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    You are forgetting that this game (like all Total War games) is a SAND BOX... meaning that you CAN follow how things went historically... or you can completely go an opposite direction.

    All of the characters and their factions could use more polish and development on their stories... especially Dong Zhuo and the fact that his faction doesn't split up as it should, thus allowing Cao Cao, Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu to squabble over the Central lands without worrying about an invasion from a unified force from Xiliang.

    Liu Bei isn't special in this... but he does need some improvements, particularly his building, the Shu-Han tax collection. I've already made a post about that, among several other things that should/need improving or changing (In my Opinion).

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/244966/liu-beis-shu-han-tax-administration-building#latest

    I agree about other factions needing a polish, the problem is you will never get Liu Bei right historically as he went to serve under Yuan Shao for protection and Guan Yu went to Cao Cao. Now that would mess up the game :D Hence I missed out that section of the game with events :D
    Ah... I kinda meant like... as historically as we can get in the game :D like, you know when (and if) you fend off Cao Cao from Tao Qian, he dies of old age and his lands become yours... but then you get another mission to confederate with Liu Biao... and it's like huhhhh????? he's on the other side of Cao Cao...

    Forces you to make a decision: Do you give all the lands to Cao Cao and Kong Rong and move towards the Riverlands and close to Liu Biao... or do you conquer Cao Cao and completely obliterate any chance of him becoming the King of Wei :D

    We will probably never get even to 60% of historical accuracy... but we can try to make it as close as possible.
    I tried that and did not work :( Travelled down to Runan, and had to fight one of LIu Biao''s two vassals to get Runan made it my capital and gave all my land away and then Liu Biao would not ally with me :(

    In fact he declared war on me instead :D
    ooo damn... he's a greedy old man in this game :D I bribed him with ancillaries and food... then watched as he battled with Yuan Shu. I did my own little part to fight Yuan Shu, but I only managed to create a coalition with Liu Biao and then had to fight Sun Ce, while Cao Cao kept trying to bully me for ancilliaries and money. Eventually, I was just like ehhhh... fine take it... sailed all the way to the Taiwan island and settled there :)
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Posts: 1,018Registered Users
    @markp27 Pei Yuanshao was killed by Zhao Yun, Zhou Cang dueled Zhao Yun and survived with wounds.



    https://threekingdoms.com/028.htm
  • WhiteHorseMemesWhiteHorseMemes Posts: 213Registered Users
    I feel like they already gave Liu Bei a lot of goodies, and I anticipate that future dlc will have more events for him too.
  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users

    I feel like they already gave Liu Bei a lot of goodies, and I anticipate that future dlc will have more events for him too.

    I hope it does. I tend to only hire those characters who were under that particular leader so with the way it is currently set up, not just for Liu Bei but Cao Cao too, I find it hard to do so.

    Gone through runs without picking up even Mi Zhu or Sun Qian etc.
  • sourpufferfishsourpufferfish Posts: 66Registered Users

    I feel like they already gave Liu Bei a lot of goodies, and I anticipate that future dlc will have more events for him too.

    They did. It's not hard to add more from other factions as well during the course of the game.

    Even things I wouldn't have thought possible. I unified with Zheng Jiang (bandit queen) and picked her up and her awesome champion general who is almost as good as Guan Yu for example.
  • AxlswhkAxlswhk Posts: 164Registered Users
    edited June 22
    To be fair, I have not seen any three kingdom game that correctly represent liu bei journey if the start year is 190. it will be extremely diificult thing to do due to his "teleport" and "landless" storyline.
  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users
    Axlswhk said:

    To be fair, I have not seen any three kingdom game that correctly represent liu bei journey if the start year is 190. it will be extremely diificult thing to do due to his "teleport" and "landless" storyline.

    Aye it does make it hard to do. Truthfully the other 2 had a massive headstart as he did not really settle till after Liu Biao had died and the destruction of Cao Cao's fleet imo.
  • AxlswhkAxlswhk Posts: 164Registered Users
    edited June 23
    markp27 said:

    Axlswhk said:

    To be fair, I have not seen any three kingdom game that correctly represent liu bei journey if the start year is 190. it will be extremely diificult thing to do due to his "teleport" and "landless" storyline.

    Aye it does make it hard to do. Truthfully the other 2 had a massive headstart as he did not really settle till after Liu Biao had died and the destruction of Cao Cao's fleet imo.

    The storyline is difficult because Liu Bei doesn’t own any land at some point and suddenly establish a base half way across in China far from the last piece of land he holds. The civilian fleeing incident is also impossible to re-enact. Those are the pivotal part of the story that form his kingdom.

    Players will find it silly when they have establish some sort of dominance at start game territory and lost it in one turn for no apparent reason and force march all the way to jing. Nobody will find this logical in game play environment
  • markp27markp27 Posts: 416Registered Users
    Axlswhk said:

    markp27 said:

    Axlswhk said:

    To be fair, I have not seen any three kingdom game that correctly represent liu bei journey if the start year is 190. it will be extremely diificult thing to do due to his "teleport" and "landless" storyline.

    Aye it does make it hard to do. Truthfully the other 2 had a massive headstart as he did not really settle till after Liu Biao had died and the destruction of Cao Cao's fleet imo.

    The storyline is difficult because Liu Bei doesn’t own any land at some point and suddenly establish a base half way across in China far from the last piece of land he holds. The civilian fleeing incident is also impossible to re-enact. Those are the pivotal part of the story that form his kingdom.

    Players will find it silly when they have establish some sort of dominance at start game territory and lost it in one turn for no apparent reason and force march all the way to jing. Nobody will find this logical in game play environment
    Never found it funny when I played ROTK, always enjoyed the added element of effort trying to catch up. Traditionally in those games, Cao Cao gave Liu Bei a piece of land, then Yuan Shao could do the same and then move into Runan.
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