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Grace interview, more community involvement

24

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  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,938Registered Users
    edited June 26
    Targeting individual CA staff is not only nasty it's self defeating. Instead of the narrative being "Some community members don't like CA's communication" it's "Some community members dislike x CA staff member". It turns the argument from a valid one to an invalid one. If the point is valid then the way to get it across is to keep it valid, to keep the narrative a reasonable one.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • wunderb0rwunderb0r Junior Member Posts: 469Registered Users

    wunderb0r said:

    Timpeyo said:

    I'd just like it if they had the same sort of friendly involvement and interest in the game as they did for game one with the community.

    I loved how excited they were each month for game one and how much they enjoyed hearing fans positive feedback and responding too interesting ideas or just having some fun with the community.

    Now with answers being given in one huge bulk post off questions on Reddit once every few months. it feels like talking to the the community is seen as more off a nuisance and somthing to get out off the way so they can get back to other things.

    I love the game and I just hope things get more lively now 3k has been out for a while, communication between CA and the tww community has been pretty poor in game two and I just hope they find a system that works to keep regular communication going and keep fans interested

    I think we can thank some of the "reasonable critics" here...
    They are literally paid to read feedback from us "reasonable critics". If they're not adult enough to handle that then they have far bigger issues both personally, and as a company.
    I don't know why you feel addressed but I was thinking about those "REEEEE MOTHERF%$$&§% FIX YOUR GAME CA IT'S SO SIMPLE REEEEEEEEEE" -kind of critics.

    And I don't think CA has a maturity problem.
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Posts: 601Registered Users
    I agree with what PaulH said here, it's very low effort to improve the current relations between CA and the community, at least here on the forum.

    Mod Showcases were a thing in Warhammer 1's lifecycle.
    Promote the streams again.

    Update the FLC chart, even if it's just whats given, and keep the upcoming ones foggy.

    Responding to threads and concerns here, at least make their presence a bit more relevant here. The radio silence in between dlcs aren't reassuring.

    Publish short stories, I think these content droughts would be an excellent time to release short stories, lore spotlights or basically anything trivial about the setting and game. We might not get dlc and flcs in this period, but at least the Warhammer community wouldn't feel as neglected.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,480Registered Users
    edited June 26
    Personally I am a believer in the idea of 'the tone at the top'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_at_the_top

    In a nutshell, any organisation or just an informal association of people(like a community for a game franchise) has the values and standards which it's members choose to apply. Not all members in a structure are the same though; there are hierarchies of influence and each rung influences the rung directly below it. At the top of the structure people are only influenced if they choose to be, but everyone else falls in line or opts-out of belonging altogether. Behaviour at the top dictates the behaviour of everyone throughout.

    I am very critical of the many companies in the game industry which commit to 'fighting toxicity' in the communities for their games, whilst pretending that they have no responsibility for producing low standards of behaviour and respect in the first place. All the 'brilliant' ideas they come up with always end up reinforcing this total lack of responsibility: so no one ends up thinking about what they owe to each other, what they should feel responsible for.
    Post edited by ArecBalrin on
  • 42konyo42konyo Posts: 775Registered Users

    Targeting individual CA staff is not only nasty it's self defeating. Instead of the narrative being "Some community members don't like CA's communication" it's "Some community members dislike x CA staff member". It turns the argument from a valid one to an invalid one. If the point is valid then the way to get it across is to keep it valid, to keep the narrative a reasonable one.

    of course you're completely right when it comes to attacking staff but I think a big part of why people drag said staff member's name into everything has to do with how that person keeps surrounding herself with drama, and given that their statements surrounding the drama have been very polarizing essentially demonizing a part of the fan base each time I can definitely understand why people feel personally attacked/offended and react as they do.

    That being said I hope the CM's join in on the banter in the future again, I wouldn't be surprised if all the frustration disappears overnight once they do.
  • JadawinKhanidiJadawinKhanidi Posts: 997Registered Users
    Who is the community? This forum?

    Despite me posting here sometimes when I'm bored, I don't see much valuable input coming from this forum. CA should definitely not care too much about forum posts. I highly doubt that forum users are even remotely representative of the game buyers in general. For one, the forums suggest that a lot of people care about the old tabletop and the lore. Given that the tabletop was unsuccessful and has been dead a long time, I'm sure the vast majority of game buyers don't care about it or its lore at all.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,471Registered Users
    edited June 26

    For one, the forums suggest that a lot of people care about the old tabletop and the lore.Given that the tabletop was unsuccessful and has been dead a long time, I'm sure the vast majority of game buyers don't care about it or its lore at all.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that. "Dead" would be an overstatement. Old World TT is only officially dead, but tabletop still lives, in new and old forms.

    Also do you think these Total Warhammers would have sold this much if they weren't a Warhammer game at all? I don't think so, i for one wouldn't be interested. Significant amount of people relive the tabletop days through this game and witness its glorious lore and miniatures come to life. The lore and sourcebooks of WH give this game its unique lifeblood. Total Warhammers also pulled many people into the Total War franchise for the first time which could've also increased the sales of 3K and other historical titles who knows?

    Who is the community? This forum?

    I don't see much valuable input coming from this forum. CA should definitely not care too much about forum posts. I highly doubt that forum users are even remotely representative of the game buyers in general.

    It's fine if this is your opinion, but i gotta disagree with this. This is actually disrespectful to many loyal gentlemen and gentlewomen who frequent this forum and care about the game. Just because there is some overly angry and sensitive posts here doesn't mean this forum is a heap of trash. There have also been fairly good and worthy feedback and discussions.
  • wunderb0rwunderb0r Junior Member Posts: 469Registered Users

    For one, the forums suggest that a lot of people care about the old tabletop and the lore.Given that the tabletop was unsuccessful and has been dead a long time, I'm sure the vast majority of game buyers don't care about it or its lore at all.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that. "Dead" would be an overstatement. Old World TT is only officially dead, but tabletop still lives, in new and old forms.

    Also do you think these Total Warhammers would have sold this much if they weren't a Warhammer game at all? I don't think so, i for one wouldn't be interested. Significant amount of people relive the tabletop days through this game and witness its glorious lore and miniatures come to life. The lore and sourcebooks of WH give this game its unique lifeblood. Total Warhammers also pulled many people into the Total War franchise for the first time which could've also increased the sales of 3K and other historical titles who knows?

    Who is the community? This forum?

    I don't see much valuable input coming from this forum. CA should definitely not care too much about forum posts. I highly doubt that forum users are even remotely representative of the game buyers in general.

    It's fine if this is your opinion, but i gotta disagree with this. This is actually disrespectful to many loyal gentlemen and gentlewomen who frequent this forum and care about the game. Just because there is some overly angry and sensitive posts here doesn't mean this forum is a heap of trash. There have also been fairly good and worthy feedback and discussions.
    he has a point tho..
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,480Registered Users

    Who is the community? This forum?

    Despite me posting here sometimes when I'm bored, I don't see much valuable input coming from this forum. CA should definitely not care too much about forum posts. I highly doubt that forum users are even remotely representative of the game buyers in general. For one, the forums suggest that a lot of people care about the old tabletop and the lore. Given that the tabletop was unsuccessful and has been dead a long time, I'm sure the vast majority of game buyers don't care about it or its lore at all.

    To me this means the following:

    1) Forums users should not make any requests or attempts at persuasion which rely on a claim to represent all players.

    2) We should consider how we can improve our feedback.

    It does not provide at all any justification for why CA should ignore users on this forum or elsewhere, or not consider the feedback. They can not ask for feedback when they want it but then ignore feedback when we want to give it; that would be hypocritical.

    The vast majority of players very well may may not care to participate, but that doesn't mean they don't care at all and every player is affected by how a developer engages with feedback. Those who do engage are not simply 'a vocal minority' but the most-invested in a game, want it to do well and represent what marketing-heads would call 'earned promotion'.

    Even very critical players like myself can encourage success because if someone has what they consider a 'deal-breaker' for buying a game and the moaniest of the moaners are not moaning about it, then a game probably doesn't have that deal-breaker in it.
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,371Registered Users

    Who is the community? This forum?

    Despite me posting here sometimes when I'm bored, I don't see much valuable input coming from this forum. CA should definitely not care too much about forum posts. I highly doubt that forum users are even remotely representative of the game buyers in general. For one, the forums suggest that a lot of people care about the old tabletop and the lore. Given that the tabletop was unsuccessful and has been dead a long time, I'm sure the vast majority of game buyers don't care about it or its lore at all.

    I personally think the lore is part of what has made this game popular, even with some folks who knew nothing about Warhammer before. Many forumites actually weren't table-toppers, but got enthused about the lore after playing this game. Many people like it for a reason, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

    Things have taken a turn for the repetitive on the forum, I think. When we have nothing new to chew over, this place can be like groundhog day. That's no slight on anyone. I'm certainly not here all the time and I'm sure many others aren't too. That may make us jaded and fail to see the value in this place, but it is there. For all the topics that may seem futile and negative, there have been so many great ones revolving around ideas, feedback and even humour. I wish the ratio was slightly better, but this is a drawing board and we can't all be talented artists all of the time.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,619Registered Users
    edited June 26
    HoneyBun said:


    The volunteer mods are excellent at moderating. The CM, who has changed over the years, is consistent only in being absent.

    In all honestly and with due respect to the mods, but compared with most forums I have been in the past, the moderation here is very lacking. Though that's true for a huge amount of forums these days, especially "official ones". So for "today's standard" it may be an "excellent job".
    Comment removed.
    Another would be that there are some people who consistently break rules (especially rule one, respecting other people's opinions) and there's nothing done against them.
    A third example would be threads consistently keep "derailing" even after a "mod intervention" or that they often just don't try to get it under control anymore but close a thread immediately. If there's no threat of consequences the word of a mod doesn't carry much weight.

    Good friends of mine were moderators on forums, I have been one on several myself, so I know that the job is hard and I have a certain respect for them, but impressed I am not.

    Who is the community? This forum?

    Despite me posting here sometimes when I'm bored, I don't see much valuable input coming from this forum. CA should definitely not care too much about forum posts.

    So just close the forum then?!
    Not to mention that we had a huge amount of threads with great input, ideas, suggestions, etc. over the years since Total War: Warhammer came out, even today we get those, but what happens if they constantly get ignored? If there's no engagement by the devs when it comes to such stuff?
    Those threads tend to dry up and other things will rise.

    Targeting individual CA staff is not only nasty it's self defeating. Instead of the narrative being "Some community members don't like CA's communication" it's "Some community members dislike x CA staff member". It turns the argument from a valid one to an invalid one. If the point is valid then the way to get it across is to keep it valid, to keep the narrative a reasonable one.

    If a certain staff member is the problem, it's ok to call them out on it as long as it stays constructive.
    This doesn't invalid any points
    Arsenic said:


    But, to be strictly fair, if there's nothing to say, there's no real point saying it. I doubt people would enjoy a series of fluffy CM posts just for the sake of saying something.

    They have a 3 part series in development which will combine to one huge thing, there are still DLCs and therefor updates ahead.
    There's always something to say. An idea, a change in the making, an outline of what's to come and much more.
    Especially when it comes to the "what's yet to come" part, it could actually quell some of the discomfort certain members of the community do have.


    ________________________________________________________________________________________

    About the article itself.
    I honestly laughed while reading this. It's a lot of PR talk, but with little to back it up from what I have seen.
    If there would be something, we wouldn't have discussions like this over and over again.
    Post edited by dge1 on
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • WarfieldWarfield Posts: 193Registered Users
    Grace's position in CA is described in the article as "lead community & social media manager". So what's this then..?

    https://www.creative-assembly.com/careers/view/head-of-community-marketing/ouRhafww

    Isn't that her job already? Is this who she reports to? Has she applied for the position?

    For reference, here's a list of all the positions currently available in CA Public Relations. It seems like CA has a ton of roles to fill for this department. How many of you think you could do this kind of work? If so, apply!

    https://www.creative-assembly.com/careers/view/all?field_jobvite_location_new_target_id[]=234

    Warfield Undermountain
    Dwarf Lord of Mount Glander
    Stone and Steel Regiment

  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,142Registered Users
  • TotalBorehammerTotalBorehammer Posts: 870Registered Users
    edited June 26
    CA are unfortunately falling victim to their own success, where because sales are good they feel they can avoid being challenged by the usebase who care enough to frequent forums like this. It is clear from the interviews they conduct, and the article thez post on FB etc, that they say one thing to the media and act like something else to the userbase.

    The amount of trust they have lost from forum regulars on here and Reddit is in my opinion significant considering we are often the people who do a lot of their PR work for them.

    Quote and personal comment removed.
    Post edited by dge1 on
    CA have a Facebook page... use the comments section of their posts and express your thoughts on ME poor quality/delays etc https://www.facebook.com/CreativeAssembly/ :)
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,388Registered Users
    My knee jerk reaction to people being offended on the internet and demanding that life go away and leave them alone, is to rip their sad candy ass a new ****. You don't have the right to not be offended. Toughen up, life wont magically stop offending you. It's truly tragic if the momentary idiocy of people you don't know, haven't met, and never will, can so unsettle you as to negatively impact your life.

    By the same token, raging against someone because they were offended, is just as silly and pointless. It's essentially the same whiny, pathetic activity, and apparently some of you can't recognize that.

    You should also probably accept that life will never give you everything you want, and that eternal disappointment is the curse of being human. Enough never actually happens. It is, instead, your own presence of mind, to accept that you don't get everything you want and be content with reality as it is.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,772Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Folks, the comments are starting to drift into unacceptable and personal comments again. This thread is not about game play but has been left here as a courtesy. If it keeps drifting off into areas I've already warned about it will be closed.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,938Registered Users

    I'm relaxed on it all. I'm quite content to wait for news till there's news.

    I don't think "the community" is in uproar either. If anything it's trending away from that. There's parts that are annoyed, but this is the internet so that's normal and okay.

    Agreed, CA has not done a thing that's worth getting worked up over. Lack of news about a product is not a fault, I'm exposed to enough marketing in my day-to-day life that I'm not craving more, and that's all this stuff is. Community engagement, hints, timelines, trailers, it's all just marketing to get you interested in a product. Me, I'm already interested in the product and do not need to have my interest continuously re-stoked.

    The whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming film The Lighthouse by Robert Eggers but I'm not demanding A24 release a timeline on when it's coming out or when we'll get our first look at it. It'll get here when it gets here. Why should I approach a video game any differently? My relationship with CA is the same: they produce a product, I look it over and decide if it's worth my time and money or if it isn't. End of relationship.
    I feel the same.

    I actively avoid marketing for most things. I'd like to know what CA plan to release far in advance, and when it's time to hype it I enjoy learning about it, but anything between that is really just puffery. I don't really see the need for CA Staff to be active on the forums or for them to state the obvious that they're working on the game. It'd be nice and all but I know they're working on the game.

    I'm quite content for the forum to trundle along being the forum without interaction from CA unless it's time to sell stuff. I get the view of wanting more interaction, but it doesn't fuss me much. I just want to be told stuff when there's stuff to be told.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,480Registered Users

    I'm relaxed on it all. I'm quite content to wait for news till there's news.

    I don't think "the community" is in uproar either. If anything it's trending away from that. There's parts that are annoyed, but this is the internet so that's normal and okay.

    Agreed, CA has not done a thing that's worth getting worked up over. Lack of news about a product is not a fault, I'm exposed to enough marketing in my day-to-day life that I'm not craving more, and that's all this stuff is. Community engagement, hints, timelines, trailers, it's all just marketing to get you interested in a product. Me, I'm already interested in the product and do not need to have my interest continuously re-stoked.

    The whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming film The Lighthouse by Robert Eggers but I'm not demanding A24 release a timeline on when it's coming out or when we'll get our first look at it. It'll get here when it gets here. Why should I approach a video game any differently? My relationship with CA is the same: they produce a product, I look it over and decide if it's worth my time and money or if it isn't. End of relationship.
    I feel the same.

    I actively avoid marketing for most things. I'd like to know what CA plan to release far in advance, and when it's time to hype it I enjoy learning about it, but anything between that is really just puffery. I don't really see the need for CA Staff to be active on the forums or for them to state the obvious that they're working on the game. It'd be nice and all but I know they're working on the game.

    I'm quite content for the forum to trundle along being the forum without interaction from CA unless it's time to sell stuff. I get the view of wanting more interaction, but it doesn't fuss me much. I just want to be told stuff when there's stuff to be told.
    But you do understand of course that others clearly feel differently; that CA should be more engaged, especially when they are blowing their own trumpet about it.
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Posts: 2,038Registered Users
    edited June 26
    I am more content to wait for things now the essentials are in but yeah this is different as after threekingdoms released it has been incredibly quiet even with that game also.

  • TalmoreanTalmorean Posts: 1,434Registered Users
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 4,510Registered Users

    I'm relaxed on it all. I'm quite content to wait for news till there's news.

    I don't think "the community" is in uproar either. If anything it's trending away from that. There's parts that are annoyed, but this is the internet so that's normal and okay.

    Agreed, CA has not done a thing that's worth getting worked up over. Lack of news about a product is not a fault, I'm exposed to enough marketing in my day-to-day life that I'm not craving more, and that's all this stuff is. Community engagement, hints, timelines, trailers, it's all just marketing to get you interested in a product. Me, I'm already interested in the product and do not need to have my interest continuously re-stoked.

    The whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming film The Lighthouse by Robert Eggers but I'm not demanding A24 release a timeline on when it's coming out or when we'll get our first look at it. It'll get here when it gets here. Why should I approach a video game any differently? My relationship with CA is the same: they produce a product, I look it over and decide if it's worth my time and money or if it isn't. End of relationship.
    I feel the same.

    I actively avoid marketing for most things. I'd like to know what CA plan to release far in advance, and when it's time to hype it I enjoy learning about it, but anything between that is really just puffery. I don't really see the need for CA Staff to be active on the forums or for them to state the obvious that they're working on the game. It'd be nice and all but I know they're working on the game.

    I'm quite content for the forum to trundle along being the forum without interaction from CA unless it's time to sell stuff. I get the view of wanting more interaction, but it doesn't fuss me much. I just want to be told stuff when there's stuff to be told.
    Yes I'd love those weekly updates:

    Week 1 - We are making a DLC it'll be released in 5 months
    Week 2 - see last week..
    Week 3 - see week 1
    Week 4 - see week 1
    Week 5 - Here are the guys sampling Dwarven Beer.. haha..
    Week 6 - Here's a screenshot that could mean anything

    They started throwing out content on VCoast 6 weeks before its release.. I felt like I'd been playing it for a straight month before I even played it.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,938Registered Users

    I'm relaxed on it all. I'm quite content to wait for news till there's news.

    I don't think "the community" is in uproar either. If anything it's trending away from that. There's parts that are annoyed, but this is the internet so that's normal and okay.

    Agreed, CA has not done a thing that's worth getting worked up over. Lack of news about a product is not a fault, I'm exposed to enough marketing in my day-to-day life that I'm not craving more, and that's all this stuff is. Community engagement, hints, timelines, trailers, it's all just marketing to get you interested in a product. Me, I'm already interested in the product and do not need to have my interest continuously re-stoked.

    The whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming film The Lighthouse by Robert Eggers but I'm not demanding A24 release a timeline on when it's coming out or when we'll get our first look at it. It'll get here when it gets here. Why should I approach a video game any differently? My relationship with CA is the same: they produce a product, I look it over and decide if it's worth my time and money or if it isn't. End of relationship.
    I feel the same.

    I actively avoid marketing for most things. I'd like to know what CA plan to release far in advance, and when it's time to hype it I enjoy learning about it, but anything between that is really just puffery. I don't really see the need for CA Staff to be active on the forums or for them to state the obvious that they're working on the game. It'd be nice and all but I know they're working on the game.

    I'm quite content for the forum to trundle along being the forum without interaction from CA unless it's time to sell stuff. I get the view of wanting more interaction, but it doesn't fuss me much. I just want to be told stuff when there's stuff to be told.
    But you do understand of course that others clearly feel differently; that CA should be more engaged, especially when they are blowing their own trumpet about it.
    As I said above "I get the view of wanting more interaction".
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,938Registered Users

    I'm relaxed on it all. I'm quite content to wait for news till there's news.

    I don't think "the community" is in uproar either. If anything it's trending away from that. There's parts that are annoyed, but this is the internet so that's normal and okay.

    Agreed, CA has not done a thing that's worth getting worked up over. Lack of news about a product is not a fault, I'm exposed to enough marketing in my day-to-day life that I'm not craving more, and that's all this stuff is. Community engagement, hints, timelines, trailers, it's all just marketing to get you interested in a product. Me, I'm already interested in the product and do not need to have my interest continuously re-stoked.

    The whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming film The Lighthouse by Robert Eggers but I'm not demanding A24 release a timeline on when it's coming out or when we'll get our first look at it. It'll get here when it gets here. Why should I approach a video game any differently? My relationship with CA is the same: they produce a product, I look it over and decide if it's worth my time and money or if it isn't. End of relationship.
    I feel the same.

    I actively avoid marketing for most things. I'd like to know what CA plan to release far in advance, and when it's time to hype it I enjoy learning about it, but anything between that is really just puffery. I don't really see the need for CA Staff to be active on the forums or for them to state the obvious that they're working on the game. It'd be nice and all but I know they're working on the game.

    I'm quite content for the forum to trundle along being the forum without interaction from CA unless it's time to sell stuff. I get the view of wanting more interaction, but it doesn't fuss me much. I just want to be told stuff when there's stuff to be told.
    Yes I'd love those weekly updates:

    Week 1 - We are making a DLC it'll be released in 5 months
    Week 2 - see last week..
    Week 3 - see week 1
    Week 4 - see week 1
    Week 5 - Here are the guys sampling Dwarven Beer.. haha..
    Week 6 - Here's a screenshot that could mean anything

    They started throwing out content on VCoast 6 weeks before its release.. I felt like I'd been playing it for a straight month before I even played it.
    About 2 to 4 weeks is ideal for me. The Everchosen is cool too if there's no other event on I want to watch.

    Other than that they can make random comments on threads but I can't say that interests me.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,371Registered Users
    Talmorean said:


    Don't worry. The resulting incursion will flap harmlessly at the walls improving public order until a small relief force comes and dispatches them. That's how it normally works.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,480Registered Users

    I'm relaxed on it all. I'm quite content to wait for news till there's news.

    I don't think "the community" is in uproar either. If anything it's trending away from that. There's parts that are annoyed, but this is the internet so that's normal and okay.

    Agreed, CA has not done a thing that's worth getting worked up over. Lack of news about a product is not a fault, I'm exposed to enough marketing in my day-to-day life that I'm not craving more, and that's all this stuff is. Community engagement, hints, timelines, trailers, it's all just marketing to get you interested in a product. Me, I'm already interested in the product and do not need to have my interest continuously re-stoked.

    The whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming film The Lighthouse by Robert Eggers but I'm not demanding A24 release a timeline on when it's coming out or when we'll get our first look at it. It'll get here when it gets here. Why should I approach a video game any differently? My relationship with CA is the same: they produce a product, I look it over and decide if it's worth my time and money or if it isn't. End of relationship.
    I feel the same.

    I actively avoid marketing for most things. I'd like to know what CA plan to release far in advance, and when it's time to hype it I enjoy learning about it, but anything between that is really just puffery. I don't really see the need for CA Staff to be active on the forums or for them to state the obvious that they're working on the game. It'd be nice and all but I know they're working on the game.

    I'm quite content for the forum to trundle along being the forum without interaction from CA unless it's time to sell stuff. I get the view of wanting more interaction, but it doesn't fuss me much. I just want to be told stuff when there's stuff to be told.
    But you do understand of course that others clearly feel differently; that CA should be more engaged, especially when they are blowing their own trumpet about it.
    As I said above "I get the view of wanting more interaction".
    ..And how that interacts with the fact that there is an article posted at the start of the thread where CA themselves make an issue of it and not in the future-tense. If they say one thing but do another, it's more than just a case of some people being happy with things as they are and others wanting something else.

    It's not enough that their engagement be a periodic dumping of news and characterising the stance of 'more engagement please' as simply wanting that more frequently can be percieved as belittling. I for one have lots of issues with Total War at the moment, some of which are shared by others, but CA never engages. Not simply with me, but those issues completely.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,142Registered Users

    I'm relaxed on it all. I'm quite content to wait for news till there's news.

    I don't think "the community" is in uproar either. If anything it's trending away from that. There's parts that are annoyed, but this is the internet so that's normal and okay.

    Agreed, CA has not done a thing that's worth getting worked up over. Lack of news about a product is not a fault, I'm exposed to enough marketing in my day-to-day life that I'm not craving more, and that's all this stuff is. Community engagement, hints, timelines, trailers, it's all just marketing to get you interested in a product. Me, I'm already interested in the product and do not need to have my interest continuously re-stoked.

    The whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming film The Lighthouse by Robert Eggers but I'm not demanding A24 release a timeline on when it's coming out or when we'll get our first look at it. It'll get here when it gets here. Why should I approach a video game any differently? My relationship with CA is the same: they produce a product, I look it over and decide if it's worth my time and money or if it isn't. End of relationship.
    I feel the same.

    I actively avoid marketing for most things. I'd like to know what CA plan to release far in advance, and when it's time to hype it I enjoy learning about it, but anything between that is really just puffery. I don't really see the need for CA Staff to be active on the forums or for them to state the obvious that they're working on the game. It'd be nice and all but I know they're working on the game.

    I'm quite content for the forum to trundle along being the forum without interaction from CA unless it's time to sell stuff. I get the view of wanting more interaction, but it doesn't fuss me much. I just want to be told stuff when there's stuff to be told.
    But you do understand of course that others clearly feel differently; that CA should be more engaged, especially when they are blowing their own trumpet about it.
    As I said above "I get the view of wanting more interaction".
    ..And how that interacts with the fact that there is an article posted at the start of the thread where CA themselves make an issue of it and not in the future-tense. If they say one thing but do another, it's more than just a case of some people being happy with things as they are and others wanting something else.

    It's not enough that their engagement be a periodic dumping of news and characterising the stance of 'more engagement please' as simply wanting that more frequently can be percieved as belittling. I for one have lots of issues with Total War at the moment, some of which are shared by others, but CA never engages. Not simply with me, but those issues completely.
    The unfortunate thing is that CA doesn't really have a real reason to engage with dissenters like they should. The games sell well enough that they can just ignore those that have quality improvement suggestions. Even ToB flopped and instead of working with the community to understand that and improve they basically just dropkicked it and barely acknowledge it now. Certainly no DLC like what was originally talked about as possible.

    The opposite issue happens with Warhammer. It sells well so they assume everything is alright and plow forward. There's the old adage to vote with your wallet, but that only really works if it's something you don't want to support. When you want to support it, but also want things improved, it's an uphill battle if the company doesn't actively try to engage and work with the community.

    Now that's not to say they don't listen to the community. There have been a number of changes and improvements to the game that were long suggested here in the forums. The problem is they give almost no acknowledgment that they used these suggestions or recognize them when they are first brought up. So are they listening and just don't tell us they are? Or are they not listening and some of the changes they happen to make are ones that were asked for here?

    Sadly, I think it seems more like the latter. Or, at best, a combination of the two. But all of that can be rectified with them just telling us that they are listening and actively engaging. Anyone with any sort of grasp on reality won't expect them to respond to everything or make every change everyone demands, but actively having a back and forth about these things? That would satisfy a lot of the demand. That, honestly, is a low bar and would be so appreciated right now. The idea they might go the route that other companies go and engage regularly and hold votes on upcoming content or contests for engagement. Highlighting mods and interviewing their creators.... blah blah blah. I could go on for a long time how some of the best companies handle this sort of thing. I'm just hoping for a fraction of that.
    Later
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,480Registered Users
    @FinishingLast That brings me back to 'tone at the top'.

    If doing something good is not worth doing because it is good, but instead requires a separate reason, that's setting a standard. That's a standard that is lower than doing something good because it is good, which always invites scrutiny.

    From the article:
    Transparency, in particular, is something that has growing value within the game industry. It’s important not just to sell your product but to keep in mind that your players are your community – you don’t just want them to buy the game, you want them to enjoy the game, to value the things that your developers have worked hard on and to feel an affinity with one another.


    It may well be true that CA do not have any reason to do this, so they don't do it: yet here they are asserting it as if it is current-fact. This is also setting a standard and not as an aspirational target.

    Because I am trying to avoid any repeat of previous experiences, I am reluctant to post the obvious conclusions from this; I have to leave it up to others to take the risk, which is part of the problem.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,142Registered Users
    I tend not to take pretty much any PR statements as realistic or completely factual. The truth is that PR is how the company wants to be seen. It has, sadly, little to do with how they actually act. I mean, it should, but it usually doesn't. My statement that CA doesn't have a financial reason to do it so they don't is intended to be a more realistic take on their actual decision making process and not really a comment on what they would rather have us believe from PR statements. The evidence of course is in their actions which highlight the reality. If they want people to believe their PR statements, then they have to act on them, not just state them.
    Later
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,471Registered Users
    Talmorean said:


    Free XP and money soon :D
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