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Confederate

malzekmalzek Posts: 89Registered Users
What do you have to do to get the AI to confederate with you?

Comments

  • AtteroAttero Senior Member Iowa, U.S.Posts: 1,418Registered Users
    BRO I'VE BEEN WONDERING THIS SINCE DAY ONE!!!!!!
    "When the strong have fallen...we must call in the weak...because now...they are the strong"
    Me..when...just now...at that one time...at that one place....upside down...
  • malzekmalzek Posts: 89Registered Users
    Attero said:

    BRO I'VE BEEN WONDERING THIS SINCE DAY ONE!!!!!!

    Its frustrating as hell.

    Who you playing as? I just got stuck in my campaign spent a hour trying to get out of that mess didn't happen lol.
  • street_regulatorstreet_regulator Posts: 144Registered Users
    Trying to confederate gong du playing as he yi seemed impossible. Always had stellar relations with him, but the balance never budged from "-17.5 Never!" Didn't try it too much on any other campaigns though
  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 663Registered Users
    Empirically speaking, it seems to be a combination of..

    (1) the partner is in a dire situation, almost in danger of being wiped out
    (2) the partner is hostile/at war with the same enemy as yourself
    (3) the partner is in very good terms with you

    ...which is arguably a very tough situation to manipulate on purpose, since diplomacy is often unpredictable.
  • burgaudburgaud Posts: 74Registered Users
    edited July 5
    In Liu Bei campaigns, I always got stuck trying to confederate Liu Biao. I always ended up restarting over and over for the last 6 weeks.

    But in one of my Liu Bei campaign, a very interesting series of events happened. Tao Qian died a few turns before Cao Cao's father died. thus the event of Tao Qian dying in 194 wont happen anymore. I instead made his son declare war on me so I invaded his land to confederate him. That worked, so i used the same thing on Liu Biao.

    It appears that confederating someone really means conquer their land. might work for you too.
  • Grimgor_the_CAkeGrimgor_the_CAke Posts: 1,520Registered Users
    Who wants to give up their belongings to others easily :p
  • dgg32dgg32 Junior Member Posts: 12Registered Users
    edited July 5
    I have found reliable strategies lately to direct confederate someone and today I have read some post in reddit that proposes yet another simpler way.

    Good relation is always the key, don't trash trustworthyness. So don't go the "vassalize and swallow" way, it is bad for relationship because it will hit you with at least -23 in trustworthyness (or more if you haven't wait 10 turns), do it too often and too early in the game, not only it becomes impossible to confederate the others but also your diplomacy is in the trash because each deal cost you so much: you can't even sell ancillaries. No, not vassal, don't go that way. Here I talk about a direct confederation, it may hit you with some negative trustworthyness if you ultimatum, but that penalty is considerably less severe, risk going into war, so save scum if you can, if on legendary, it is a calculated risk.

    tldr: Do everything to boost your relations. If you want some fish now, max your relations and ultimatum. If you are at war with your target, always release prisoners and check each turn if he accepts confederation in peace treaty. When you are big, check each turn in the quick deal for some small fishes that are green in the confedertion button. As Sun Jian, gift your neighbors provinces until your relations are max, confederate him and take all the land back, and then do it to the next guy until you swallow the whole China.

    Now it seems to me quite easy to confederate some small fishes, though not necessary our Liu Biao. Stick and carrot. Be warned, sometimes you still risk going into war, though on very hard, you can save scum. On legendary, you have to calculate your risk.

    Here is my way:

    Prerequisite: your rank is high enough to confederate and you are OK big and your target fraction is OK small. For Liu Bei, OK big means somehow you are the sole owner of Sichuan (Liu Yan and Jia's territory). OK small means for example Zheng Jiang with 3 provinces. It will work even on the turn you just first discover her. I even confederated Cao Cao with like 6 - 7 settlements in mid game.

    For me, three approaches to confederate some one: carrot and stick, war and quick deal.

    1. The carrot and stick approach (difficulty level mid): it is helpful if you boost your relations several turns before, like marry off your heir to them and so. But if you want your target now: Piece meal 50 gold one after another, it will improve the relations, and in one final rush, if you lose patience, gift him everything in your ancillary (the ones that you are OK to live without, they will likely vanish forever) plus gold and rice per turn (don't worry, the per turn agreement will be gone the next turn, but again the ancillaries are gone). After each transaction, check how negative is the confederation option. Roughly if your relation is above 100 and the negative is somewhere below -20 is OK. Then confederate and ultimatum (the latter is the one that you can only click if you choose "confederate" anyway), cross your fingers: though it is a deal or war gamble, but the odds are on your side.

    2. The "war" approach (difficulty level hard but managable): If you want to swallow Cao Cao but he DOWed you, win battles and RELEASE his prisoners because "release prisoners" gives you a huge boost in relations. Try bait and ambush to win: Put a full stack in ambush mode and the put a really small force (like just a single general) in plain sight. The AI seems to always take the bait, again and again without learning any lesson. Destory their army and always release their prisoners. Then check each turn if he will accept confederation as peace treaty. Even if the fraction is one of the three kingdoms, it will still work if your "in war" relation improve well enough in such a way.

    3. The quick deals: get big, and check frequently in the quick deal for some one who is green in "confederation" button (difficulty level: luck) Some fraction may be in distress, some are just too small to survive and are willing to end their games. I picked up Yuan Shu, Gongsun Zan and Cai Mao for free yesterday.

    4. Reddit approach: posted by u/GiveHerTheDuck in reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/c9c0s2/total_war_three_kingdoms_how_to_confederate/). As Sun Jian, gift Yuan Shu provinces until he agrees to get confederated. You get all your land back. Do it to the next guy, until you confederate the whole China.


    Finally, this is the "how to confederate Liu Biao play" for Liu Bei: Get big by conquering and confederating your initial neighbors by release prisoners. When you are big enough, do the Sun Jian thing to your other neighbors and keep the snowball running until you border Liu Biao. And conf him too.
    Post edited by dgg32 on
  • malzekmalzek Posts: 89Registered Users
    dgg32 said:

    I have found reliable strategies lately to direct confederate someone and today I have read some post in reddit that proposes yet another simpler way.

    Good relation is always the key, don't trash trustworthyness. So don't go the "vassalize and swallow" way, it is bad for relationship because it will hit you with at least -23 in trustworthyness (or more if you haven't wait 10 turns), do it too often and too early in the game, not only it becomes impossible to confederate the others but also your diplomacy is in the trash because each deal cost you so much: you can't even sell ancillaries. No, not vassal, don't go that way. Here I talk about a direct confederation, it may hit you with some negative trustworthyness if you ultimatum, but that penalty is considerably less severe, risk going into war, so save scum if you can, if on legendary, it is a calculated risk.

    tldr: Do everything to boost your relations. If you want some fish now, max your relations and ultimatum. If you are at war with your target, always release prisoners and check each turn if he accepts confederation in peace treaty. When you are big, check each turn in the quick deal for some small fishes that are green in the confedertion button. As Sun Jian, gift your neighbors provinces until your relations are max, confederate him and take all the land back, and then do it to the next guy until you swallow the whole China.

    Now it seems to me quite easy to confederate some small fishes, though not necessary our Liu Biao. Stick and carrot. Be warned, sometimes you still risk going into war, though on very hard, you can save scum. On legendary, you have to calculate your risk.

    Here is my way:

    Prerequisite: your rank is high enough to confederate and you are OK big and your target fraction is OK small. For Liu Bei, OK big means somehow you are the sole owner of Sichuan (Liu Yan and Jia's territory). OK small means for example Zheng Jiang with 3 provinces. It will work even on the turn you just first discover her. I even confederated Cao Cao with like 6 - 7 settlements in mid game.

    For me, three approaches to confederate some one: carrot and stick, war and quick deal.

    1. The carrot and stick approach (difficulty level mid): it is helpful if you boost your relations several turns before, like building coalitons and so. But if you want your target now: Piece meal 50 gold one after another, it will improve the relations, and in one final rush, if you lose patience, gift him everything in your ancillary (the ones that you are OK to live without, they will likely vanish forever) plus gold and rice per turn (don't worry, the per turn agreement will be gone the next turn, but again the ancillaries are gone). After each transaction, check how negative is the confederation option. Roughly if your relation is above 100 and the negative is somewhere below -20 is OK. Then confederate and ultimatum (the latter is the one that you can only click if you choose "confederate" anyway), cross your fingers: though it is a deal or war gamble, but the odds are on your side.

    2. The "war" approach (difficulty level hard but managable): If you want to swallow Cao Cao but he DOWed you, win battles and RELEASE his prisoners because "release prisoners" gives you a huge boost in relations. Try bait and ambush to win: Put a full stack in ambush mode and the put a really small force (like just a single general) in plain sight. The AI seems to always take the bait, again and again without learning any lesson. Destory their army and always release their prisoners. Then check each turn if he will accept confederation as peace treaty. Even if the fraction is one of the three kingdoms, it will still work if your "in war" relation improve well enough in such a way.

    3. The quick deals: get big, and check frequently in the quick deal for some one who is green in "confederation" button (difficulty level: luck) Some fraction may be in distress, some are just too small to survive and are willing to end their games. I picked up Yuan Shu, Gongsun Zan and Cai Mao for free yesterday.

    4. Reddit approach: posted by u/GiveHerTheDuck in reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/c9c0s2/total_war_three_kingdoms_how_to_confederate/). As Sun Jian, gift Yuan Shu provinces until he agrees to get confederated. You get all your land back. Do it to the next guy, until you confederate the whole China.


    Finally, this is the "how to confederate Liu Biao play" for Liu Bei: Get big by conquering and confederating your initial neighbors by release prisoners. When you are big enough, do the Sun Jian thing to your other neighbors and keep the snowball running until you border Liu Biao. And conf him too.

    Thanks for the information bro im going to try that.
  • RocketlegionRocketlegion Member Posts: 621Registered Users
    edited July 5
    Play as Dong Zhuo and force them to confederate, I used this strategy to get Ma Teng and Ma Chao into my army.
  • YANGXuYANGXu Posts: 15Registered Users
    The interesting thing is confederating is much more difficult than forcing abdication.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,057Registered Users
    I think a lot could be achieved if CA renamed "confederate" to what it actually is, "annex". You are not confederating with someone, you are subsuming them. That would make it easier for players to understand why a long time ally wouldn't agree to it willy-nilly if there was no pressing reason for it.

  • Grimgor_the_CAkeGrimgor_the_CAke Posts: 1,520Registered Users
    ... hmmm it is actually annex. Confederation means something quite equal and happy to both sides / those involved I supposed. And there are actually confederation in the game (diplomatic).
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 589Registered Users
    edited July 6
    Let me guys tell you about my current Liu Bei campaign. Was actually playing Big Dong but it made me tired to be the bad guy all the time 😂
    Even on very hard it is easy to confederate with other factions. The key is to give them regions, money, food and ancillaries for free. You’ll get them back anyways.

    1. confederation: Tao Qian:
    As soon as you decide to help him against Cao Cao you have the chance to confederate with him. I gave him one region and confederated next turn.

    2. Confederation: Kong Rong
    I helped him against Huang Shao and gave him all conquered regions in Behai, Langye and Taishan (every turn 1).

    3. Confederation: Liu Biao
    after that I headed straight towards Liu Biao and helped him against Yuan Shu and He Yi. At the same time Cao Cao was invading my territory. I conquered Luoyang and Nanyang and gave it again all to Liu Biao for free. Our relationship went from 0 to 220 within 6 turns.
    At one turn I had zero settlements because I let Cao conquer my regions around Dong and Behai commandery.
    I needed to force Liu Biao to accept the confederation what gave me a -10 in trustworthiness, whatever...

    4. confederation: Zheng Jiang
    she only had one region, gave her some food and money for free, some wooden axes and wooden fishes. 3 turns later confederated with her and married her to Lü Bu.

    I’m 50 turns in now, having an absolute ultimate team of unique/legendary characters only. Was lucky to catch Xiahou Dun and Taishi Ci during battles.
    And got Xu Huang and Xiahou Yuan when I confederated with Liu Biao. Zhao Yun came via event. Unfortunately Huang Zhong moved instantly to the Han empire because he wasn’t deployed as a general... hope CA will fixe that Bug!
    Playing with 15t/y and Tao Qian is about 60 years old so still about 150 turns to employ him as a general.

    My best campaign so far! It’s easy to confederate, just give the faction regions and stuff for free, they will love you for that.
    Post edited by ArneSo on
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,057Registered Users

    ... hmmm it is actually annex. Confederation means something quite equal and happy to both sides / those involved I supposed. And there are actually confederation in the game (diplomatic).

    The coalitions you can build in this game are actually much more worthy to be called confederations.

  • markp27markp27 Posts: 888Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    Let me guys tell you about my current Liu Bei campaign. Was actually playing Big Dong but it made me tired to be the bad guy all the time 😂
    Even on very hard it is easy to confederate with your other factions. The key is to give them regions, money, food and ancillaries for free. You get them back anyways.

    1. confederation: Tao Qian:
    As soon as you decide to help him against Cai Cao you have the chance to confederate with him. I gave him one region and confederated next turn.

    2. Confederation: Kong Rong
    I helped him against Huang Shao and gave him all conquered regions in Behai, Langye and Taishan (every turn 1).

    3. Confederation: Liu Biao
    after that I headed straight towards Liu Biao and helped him against Yuan Shu and He Yi. At the same time Cao Cao was invading my territory. I conquered Luoyang and Nanyang and gave it again all to Liu Biao for free. Our relationship went from 0 to 220 within 6 turns.
    At one turn I had zero settlements because I let Cao conquer my regions around Dong and Behai commandery.
    I needed to force Liu Biao to accept the confederation what gave me a -10 in trustworthiness, whatever...

    4. confederation: Zheng Jiang
    she only had one region, gave her some food and money for free, some wooden axes and wooden fishes. 3 turns later confederated with her and married her to Lü Bu.

    I’m 50 turns in now, having an absolute ultimate team of unique/legendary characters only. Was lucky to catch Xiahou Dun and Taishi Ci during battles.
    And got Xu Huang and Xiahou Yuan when I confederated with Liu Biao. Zhao Yun came via event. Unfortunately Huang Zhong moved instantly to the Han empire because he wasn’t deployed as a general... hope CA will fixe that Bug!
    Playing with 15t/y and Tao Qian is about 60 years old so still about 150 turns to employ him as a general.

    My best campaign so far! It’s easy to confederate, just give the faction regions and stuff for free, they will love you for that.

    10/10 for that answer just tried it and worked. :)
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