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The Mods Banning Fiasco is becoming Public!

DarizukaDarizuka Junior MemberPosts: 577Registered Users
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/07/11/creative-assembly-blocking-sexy-mods-for-total-war-three-kingdoms/

An article have sprung up
and several countless youtubers and countless steam topics are springing up over this fiasco...

I mean honeslty, I dont know if what they did were anything against Steam regulations on Mods..
since y'know... Look at Bethseda and other companies with games that have actual Fetish mods being shared on Steam.



And i mean im from South East Asia,
and i have to say, truthfully is... to us asians, we dont really make an issue about gender.
and almost every game released in China is overly sexualized
even on mobile gaming platforms...

so if CA did want to penetrate the asian market, then they shouldnt bar what modders made on their spare time...

since at the end of the day...

If you dont like the mods, dont download it.
if the mods appeal to you, why not?



But this whole scenario is gonna get worse and worse and worse if CA is going to be closeminded.
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Comments

  • united84united84 Posts: 603Registered Users
    That is a bad generalization to equate Asians & games with sexy women. In fact, I would prove otherwise. Those games with sexy women are normally low tier games with very niche market. Popular games in Asia like Pubg, WoW, LoL and Dota does not contained overly sexual content.

    To be honest, I am neutral on this. I dont care about those inappropriate portraits getting banned because I don't use them at all but at the same time I dont support what CA has done since their generic portrait sucks considering characters are the main selling point for the game. Maybe if CA had come out with a healthy variety of generic portraits, they might have a good justification for the ban.

    All in all, I can see the reasoning on both sides. Hence, I am neutral on this issue.
  • WhiteHorseMemesWhiteHorseMemes Posts: 331Registered Users
    I know this is going to get locked and shut down pretty quick, but I personally agree with the OP that they should just let people mod whatever they want.
  • RewanRewan Senior Member Posts: 1,347Registered Users
    edited July 12
    But people are free to mod whatever they want. CA just has a right of regard on whatever lands on the Steam Workshop - and so does every other developper/editor.

    That's exactly why we have "secondary" modding platforms (like the Nexus) that will always exist for this very reason.
  • johncagejohncage Posts: 246Registered Users
    why are they micro managing the workshop for sexy women? seems a bit weird. i understand the copyright issues with the dynasty warrior things, but even non copyrighted works? why this sexually regressive attitude? i don't understand. they are uk company no? not based in saudi arabia with anti-sexuality laws.

  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    edited July 12
    I would also rather they allow whatever mods people want, other than to avoid copyright issues such as asset flips. It does feel a bit hypocritical and baffling given some of the imagery in vanilla Warhammer.

    But a lot of this outrage is fake. Making a mountain out of a molehill. Just another excuse for the same old rotten apples who have been hating on this game for a long time due to the China and female generals. The old circlejerk of hate.

    Nothing is actually "banned". People can still make, download and use whatever mods they want. The core game supports everything. Just get it from the many sources other than the workshop.

    Just like people have the right to make whatever pervy mod they want, CA has the right to curate their own workshop. CA is not the government, it is a company.

    This is a good time for CA to announce the next DLC, or news of Warhammer or some other positive news to distract from this negativity.

    PS. Read that article. Same old nonsense. Repeating old lies and misinformation. Deliberately presenting half the facts to push an obvious political agenda. The site runs on a familiar faulty alt-right logic - racism, misogyny, bigotry is all okay because "free speech", but people calling them out apparently do not have the same right to free speech and should keep their mouths shut.
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Posts: 3,036Registered Users
    When it comes to Steam Workshop, this particular forum, and basically anything the company is allowed some form of leeway or ownership of, they can pretty much ban or allow whatever they want. Furthermore the reason stuff like Dynasty Warrior mods and such are specifically not supported is to dodge the inevitable rights battle. Dynasty Warriors hasn't quite hit Public Domain yet. Any content moderation is not the same as censorship either. The company has every right to pick and choose their associated content.

    Having said that, this seems a losing battle. We have examples of this same fight from before. Overwatch and Blizzard for example, took the fight against adult content surrounding their game. And it's not a fight they won by any stretch of the imagination. Even if you had a million people scouring the internet you wouldn't be able to moderate everything. There are sites that allow such mods that are beyond their reach, or just will be missed. Not only that, but actively fighting the modding community at this will only draw attention to it. Inciting interest they'd obviously rather not have. Quiet moderation and community regulation will accomplish this with half the push back.

    Finally, you can not convince me they did not see this coming. There were literal bets on how long it would take for these type of mods to emerge. None of this should come as a surprise. Hell I'm only surprised it took as long as it did. To act as though you weren't prepared for the adult oriented mods is foolish at best and an outright lie at worst.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,600Registered Users
    LoL, really?

    It's sad that people need such stuff in their games when in the age of the internet, you can satisfy any fetish with a couple of mouseclicks.

    Another fake controversy by the usual suspects.

  • DarizukaDarizuka Junior Member Posts: 577Registered Users

    LoL, really?

    It's sad that people need such stuff in their games when in the age of the internet, you can satisfy any fetish with a couple of mouseclicks.

    Another fake controversy by the usual suspects.

    but does it satisfy the fetish of seeing busty women in small armors taking out hundreds of soldiers all at once?

    and no, those ecchi animes dont count.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Posts: 1,488Registered Users
    I personally don't play three kingdoms with cosmetic mods on but to the people who want to play with these mods on and took the time to create them, more power to them. Its not like any of the female characters are naked or anything, the "nudity" level on the characters is the same as a beach body or underwear advertisement poster. I can also confirm that OP's point that this level of "sexualization" is nothing in Asia, especially in Japan where Hentai was invented. The level of "nudity" in the Sun Ren image is also pretty standard level imagery on Chinese games, specifically mobile games so I can also see a lot of Chinese players getting **** at CA's decision to remove the mod from the workshop.
  • Judaka_LTMJudaka_LTM Posts: 100Registered Users
    The mod is softcore porn, whether Asian game creators use softcore porn to market their games or not really has nothing to do with CA and if CA doesn't allow mods that include softcore porn and then others call that a public relations fiasco or whatever then I don't know what to say, that's just embarrassing for those who take it so badly.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Posts: 1,488Registered Users

    The mod is softcore porn, whether Asian game creators use softcore porn to market their games or not really has nothing to do with CA and if CA doesn't allow mods that include softcore porn and then others call that a public relations fiasco or whatever then I don't know what to say, that's just embarrassing for those who take it so badly.

    Do you also consider beach body posters of women in bikinis to also be "softcore porn?" In terms of nudity levels they are the same, its also funny how CA allows blood and gore but not women in their underwear.
  • MaleAmazonMaleAmazon Senior Member Posts: 662Registered Users
    The images displayed were clearly sexualized. 'Tasteful robe' rofl. Softcore porn, more or less. Fine. I use some nude mods for Skyrim, mainly for realism (no brown diapers on 'nude' people). I kinda like the 3k portraits, though I wish it was easier to tell people apart.

    It is perfectly understandable that a company selling a serious strategy game would not want it associated with that type of content, and thus keep it off a site like Steam.

    I am sure you can mod your game without using that platform.
  • Judaka_LTMJudaka_LTM Posts: 100Registered Users

    The mod is softcore porn, whether Asian game creators use softcore porn to market their games or not really has nothing to do with CA and if CA doesn't allow mods that include softcore porn and then others call that a public relations fiasco or whatever then I don't know what to say, that's just embarrassing for those who take it so badly.

    Do you also consider beach body posters of women in bikinis to also be "softcore porn?" In terms of nudity levels they are the same, its also funny how CA allows blood and gore but not women in their underwear.
    I don't actually consider bikinis to be the same as dressed women with body parts that are being exposed in a sexually provocative manner. Pictures on the article show women with a single leg being uncovered or breasts being barely covered, it shouldn't need to explained that this is softcore porn and that a woman wearing a bikini (common swimwear) isn't. Context also matters and the fact that the character has been drawn this way can't be divorced from the intention to "make characters sexy".

    If CA let these mods exist, I wouldn't complain because I don't care but if CA wants to ban them then that's an understandable choice to me. People won't play 3k because they can't mod-in scantily dressed women with large breasts? I'll save my tears.

  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKPosts: 36,047Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Moved to a more appropriate forum.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

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    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

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  • BreadboxBreadbox Posts: 780Registered Users
    edited July 15
    Keep that weeb trash to idle clicker mmos, do not equate the popularity of softcore hentai to its widespread acceptance in asia.
  • TheGreatPamphletTheGreatPamphlet Posts: 161Registered Users
    Don't care about weeb, but there's some sort of hypocrisy, when you are outraged over a Chinese woman wearing a provocative bikini, while you are happily exploiting the over-sexualisation of Dark Elves and Amazon Warriors.
    Nestor.

    Allah, Suriya, Bashar w Bas!
  • DarizukaDarizuka Junior Member Posts: 577Registered Users
    Im a long time Total War fan
    I remember the days when CA encourage fans to explore their creativity in modding
    when people mod Warhammer into TW: Medieval 2
    and i mean that did go beyond copywright and whatnot but there was no issue or fallout because of licensing and whatnot.. infact it garnered the opposite response with people being more... excited about the potential of Total War.


    but with the recent fallout where any opinions that people have against some things including the recent mods being banned and people who against its censorship being banned, total war rome 2 forceful addition of female generals and those who are against it are branded Nazis or worse...
    and etc.


    seems like CA and TW is regressing further than advancing forward to appeal to its fanbase.

    I mean what kind of company craps on its actual fans and people who buy the game
    in favor of appealing to a market that is fictitious? TW is a niche market, if you let players to mod as they please... like they did back in Medieval 2, Your ACTUAL fans and playerbase CAN attract people to the franchise.


    E.g. Imagine a guy modding TW: Warhammer and making a Lord of the Rings Mod or Game of Thrones... it will attract those people obsessed with those franchise to come join in and buy the game to play said mods...

    Heck, alot of people even bought Mount and Blade games to play the mods for Game of Thrones and etc....

    So why are you guys actively trying to fight against creativity which will yield positive results to people joining and buying the game?
    Does the opinion of 5-15 vocal minorities matter more than the potential of dozens if hot hundreds of potential buyers?

    Im a businessman who sells spareparts in a 3rd world country, but i find CA's recent approach to marketing and actions on fanbase to be baffling....
    its like... "why are you ruining your own company's name? why are you middle fingering your fans?"

    ...the whole recent censorship fiasco just leaves a bad taste all in all..
    and it could easily had been avoided and would of spearheaded alot of NEW ASIAN BUYERS if you appeal to their norms.

    I mean try playing asian games if you dont believe me.
    Theres a reason why games like..

    Azur Lane, Destiny's Child, Epic7, Senran Kagura, Dead or Alive. Fire Emblem and etc, works well in Asian Markets... Because they know what the FANS actually want.
    and quite frankly, TW: 3 Kingdoms open so much venues to make "waifu" characters to appeal to asian markets.
  • tadakatsutadakatsu Junior Member Posts: 389Registered Users
    in the case of warhammer i am pretty sure games worshop didnt allow for mods of any other franchises that beling lord of the rings game of thrones etc in the case of total war three kingdoms i am pretty certain they are trying to avoid issues with china cause there are certain things china is very sensitive to and i know they are trying to not offend anyone or get total war three kingdoms outright banned from china. now while i dont know if china would actually ban it i do know other games have been banned in different countries for having things they didnt approve of. so before you blame CA for regressing and not allowing people to express their creativity think about what could be going on in the background. they have their reasons
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    edited July 18
    You should realize... you are one of the 5-15 vocal minorities in this case.

    "Actual fans" are interested in Total War, not badly drawn images of half-naked women or obsessing over whether a some video game sprite has bumps in the "wrong" places.

    And censorship?! CA is not the government dude. They banned some guy from their workshop for posting violent homophobic and misogynistic garbage. Now you can of course suggest that everyone has their right to free speech even if it is hate speech. Then you should also respect CA's right to decide who or what they want or do not want in their workshop.

    CA is not stifling creativity in any way. Every mod is still supported in the game. No one is preventing you from making and using whatever perverted waifu mod you want.
  • ImnuktamImnuktam Posts: 60Registered Users
    edited July 18
    I have read up on this a bit but im having a hard time seeing the point of the other side. Why is it an issue what people are doing on their single player games?

    Unless I am mistaken only they can see the images, and they had to choose to see them by going out of their way to download a mod that probably states exactly what you are going to see, and then probably enabling it.

    I don't understand the issue, is there an I.P infringement, steam EULA infringement or just a case of people saying "I don't like that, no one else should get to look at it"?
  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 663Registered Users
    edited July 18
    This seems to be a habit amongst SOME fans that share your opinion, that they seem to think they're the only fans out there, and their opinion on the matter are the only ones that matters.

    Except, the "fans" are a diverse group, and I know for a fact they can't be just clumped up into a single group on what they like or prefer or hate.

    Especially when it comes to "waifu" content, contrary to what you've said, many people actually do not care for flopping boobies and stripping down women for no reason. A lot of such people have no problems enjoying such content in its own format -- it's just that this habitual, endless, excessive, and frankly uncreative and boring-as-fek tendency of replacing pics and models of every woman in any given game and making them into Playboy models .. is just dumb and tired.

    Maybe it's exciting for people that never left their teen libidos behind, but I really don't want to see waifu content in a war-strat game in the first place.

    I mean, I'd not complain if this was a hentai-level waifu game from the start, like Rance series, but it's not. I don't feel compelled to see flopping boobies and skimpy lingerie everytime a female general comes about. If I want to see waifu stuff, I go see waifu stuff. I don't expect them to see in a Total War game.


    So I don't really feel sorry for such content being banned at all, especially when most of them are lazy, illegal rip-offs from other IPs. And especially in this day and age where more and more people are becoming aware of the problem of oversexualizing stuff without any need for it -- it's a right move in the right direction.

    It's not as if people who absolutely must have boobies in their games, aren't going to share mod files. It's just that the compaby will not condone such actions at an official modding platform. Seems reasonable to me.
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    edited July 18
    Imnuktam said:

    I have read up on this a bit but im having a hard time seeing the point of the other side. Why is it an issue what people are doing on their single player games?

    Unless I am mistaken only they can see the images, and they had to choose to see them by going out of their way to download a mod that probably states exactly what you are going to see, and then probably enabling it.

    I don't understand the issue, is there an I.P infringement, steam EULA infringement or just a case of people saying "I don't like that, no one else should get to look at it"?

    It is entirely based on the game's workshop usage guidelines, as highlighted multiple times. A fact conveniently ignored by these jerking-off-to-bad-drawings enthusiasts. They can get their mods from every other source outside the workshop.

    Apparently hate and bigotry is protected by free speech, but a company's right to curate their workshop is not, according to these perverts.

  • street_regulatorstreet_regulator Posts: 162Registered Users
    edited July 18
    @tadakatsu that's understandable from a business perspective. I don't know if that's the actual reason these restrictions are in place, but it's still very unappealing when a videogame company adheres to the "rules" of certain states that seem trivial and silly to most others.
    It's just impossible to please everyone with any product that pertains to real history. Any and all aspects will have some degree of controversy. Pleasing the OP will displease others... It's just an impossible task

    edit: if all this is just about giving women in the game skimpy models then I see no point in feeding this conversation further
  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 3,278Registered Users
    You can mod anything you want. Total War Naked whatsoever. Just dont distibute them where it's not allowed to be distributed.

    Using other games IP in another game's mod especially not owned buy the same company is always frown upon regardless whether the IP holder decided to claim their rights or not. Even ripping off someone's mod and distributed them as your own is also frowned upon and may get banned on certain website.

    If Medieval 2 exist during Steam era, mods like Warhammer or GoT will still not be able to distribute on Steam workahop. There are other places where you can get those mods if you're unable to create something on your own.
  • johncagejohncage Posts: 246Registered Users
    edited July 18

    You should realize... you are one of the 5-15 vocal minorities in this case.

    "Actual fans" are interested in Total War, not badly drawn images of half-naked women or obsessing over whether a some video game sprite has bumps in the "wrong" places.

    And censorship?! CA is not the government dude. They banned some guy from their workshop for posting violent homophobic and misogynistic garbage. Now you can of course suggest that everyone has their right to free speech even if it is hate speech. Then you should also respect CA's right to decide who or what they want or do not want in their workshop.

    CA is not stifling creativity in any way. Every mod is still supported in the game. No one is preventing you from making and using whatever perverted waifu mod you want.

    fans=/=sycophants

    if it wasn't for the people who like to discuss "bumps in the wrong place", the franchise would have devolved into nothing but warhammer tier fantasy crap a long time ago.

    the history aspect was what made ca, stop suggesting for them to abandon their pursuit of progress in realism(as there has been progress made, just look at shogun compared to shogun 2 or medieval compared to medieval 2), and cater to a bunch of people who hopped on board only after warhammer came out

    the minute ca stops their history games, is the moment this company loses its appeal for a majority of the market. don't pretend the shallow fantasy game enthusiasts are who ca's fans really are. the fans are those "bump" lovers who stuck around since rome 1
  • street_regulatorstreet_regulator Posts: 162Registered Users
    edited July 18
    @johncage why are you so angry at people that liked Warhammer? Any illusion of royalty you think you have because you're a "lover who stuck around since rome 1" is nothing but that, an illusion. Please reexamine the superiority complex baloney you've been putting on full display, its literally nothing but counterproductive.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Posts: 1,488Registered Users
    Its because of left wing activism, its a huge problem effecting everything including the gaming industry but I'm not sure if we should really get into discussing this because this isn't a forum about politics. I can say that Asia in general doesn't buy this "wokeness" nonsense that is so prevalent in Europe and North America though.
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    edited July 18

    Its because of left wing activism, its a huge problem effecting everything including the gaming industry but I'm not sure if we should really get into discussing this because this isn't a forum about politics. I can say that Asia in general doesn't buy this "wokeness" nonsense that is so prevalent in Europe and North America though.

    Asia puts out far more historical games, movies and TV shows featuring strong gender-role-defying women than the west. China more than anyone. You have no idea what you are talking about.




  • kweassa1kweassa1 Posts: 663Registered Users
    edited July 18

    Asia puts out far more historical games, movies and TV shows featuring strong gender-role-defying women than the west. China more than anyone. You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Absolutely correct.

    Let me apologize to anyone from Japan that might be offended, but the only parts of Asia that's got absolutely no clue at all how much and how fast the world is changing in terms of how women are portrayed in the media, is Japan.

    It's literally the only place in Asia where women are still regularly stripped butt-naked, peeped on, groped, harassed, humiliated in EVERY type of medium ranging from children's comics to movies to public television shows and dramas... and people think that's just "romantic comedy" or "school boys having their fun" and no problems.


    Literally there's no other place in Asia in this day and age where that's ok. Not in China, not in Korea, not in the Southeast Asia, not in India, definitely not in central Asia or the Middle East.

    Japan's an awesome place, very advanced and awesome society of people, but their one weakness is that they're the most BACKWARD SOCIETY in terms of women's rights in far-East Asia. I refuse them to be any kind of representative of "how Asia is", being an Asian myself.

    So don't go around trying to kid yourself things are different in Asia, or the Asia is "not as woke" or it's somehow more "left wing activist," Misaka_Complex. Those things are NOT OK in Asia. People enjoy Japanese games and anime and manga -- I enjoy it too. But that doesn't mean people think how things are portrayed in those Japanese medium have no problems.

    Most people DO think there are problems with it.
  • DarizukaDarizuka Junior Member Posts: 577Registered Users
    kweassa1 said:

    Asia puts out far more historical games, movies and TV shows featuring strong gender-role-defying women than the west. China more than anyone. You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Absolutely correct.

    Let me apologize to anyone from Japan that might be offended, but the only parts of Asia that's got absolutely no clue at all how much and how fast the world is changing in terms of how women are portrayed in the media, is Japan.

    It's literally the only place in Asia where women are still regularly stripped butt-naked, peeped on, groped, harassed, humiliated in EVERY type of medium ranging from children's comics to movies to public television shows and dramas... and people think that's just "romantic comedy" or "school boys having their fun" and no problems.


    Literally there's no other place in Asia in this day and age where that's ok. Not in China, not in Korea, not in the Southeast Asia, not in India, definitely not in central Asia or the Middle East.

    Japan's an awesome place, very advanced and awesome society of people, but their one weakness is that they're the most BACKWARD SOCIETY in terms of women's rights in far-East Asia. I refuse them to be any kind of representative of "how Asia is", being an Asian myself.

    So don't go around trying to kid yourself things are different in Asia, or the Asia is "not as woke" or it's somehow more "left wing activist," Misaka_Complex. Those things are NOT OK in Asia. People enjoy Japanese games and anime and manga -- I enjoy it too. But that doesn't mean people think how things are portrayed in those Japanese medium have no problems.

    Most people DO think there are problems with it.
    Korea has been in the news last several years
    when its revealed their actresses and female girl band musicians are subjected to being pimped out for gigs and whatnot... heck even the male stars aswell are involved as being subjected to it and/or orchestrating it.


    China has a lot of crazy stuff, you just havent seen the right places or be part of South East Asian Whatsapp groups... i mean the stuff that gets shared around.. is y'know...

    i mean thats why alot of Chinese Mobile games overly sexualize female characters
    cos they're allowed to... and its what appeals to them as a market.

    dont just blame Japan man...
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