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Loremasters: Are the Necrotect hats significant, or just fashionable?

ihq47ihq47 Posts: 66Registered Users
It's a rather unique look, but does it hold a special significance? Does it mark their status in society, their profession or their character, or is it just a fashion sense thing? Could any highly valued individual wear such a hat?

I know the army book states that they made their own death masks, but that the masks as a thing aren't unique as we can see with Tomb Guard and Khalida.

While we're at it: Would the Tomb Princes head wear mark them as nobles, or is it to show high status in general?

Oh, and the Tomb Kings' fake beards. The Tomb Guard's masks have rather short ones, while the Kings have the largest, but Necrotects have no beard at all. Is there an important distinction between beards and no beards, or is it just a flamboyant fashion choice?

Comments

  • TalmoreanTalmorean Posts: 1,430Registered Users
    The Tomb Kings did some freelance work for the Chaos Dwarves and returned home with their superb head fashions.

    (This is bull **** as I just made it up)
  • ihq47ihq47 Posts: 66Registered Users
    Talmorean said:

    The Tomb Kings did some freelance work for the Chaos Dwarves and returned home with their superb head fashions.

    (This is bull **** as I just made it up)

    Hah, I appreciate it nonetheless :smiley:
  • AbmongAbmong Posts: 934Registered Users
    edited July 15
    I don't think there was a reason for it. GW just settled on the design to distinguish Necrotects from other types of TK units.

    Most of the other stuff are just bits and bobs thrown together to look psuedo ancient Egyptian. Has no real meaning except that it looks the part.

    Some things have echoes of the original Egyptian use. The upright Egyptian Cobra (aka Asp) was a Uraeus, a symbol of the goddesses Wadjet and worn by Egyptian royals. In Warhammer the Cobra is associated with the Goddess Asaph, The bigger the Cobra the more important the Tomb king/prince maybe.

    In WH liche priests also wear the Cobra symbol, more as a sign of protection/devotion to Asaph than indicator of royal status. Liche priests also wear a variety of psuedo Egyptian headdresses. For some reason though CA never made the ceremonial (psuedo Anubis) Jackle headdress for them, but the TT model had them.

    The fake beards are a bit of a mystery. Egyptologists aren't even sure why pharaohs (even female ones) wore them. My best guess is that it's a sign of wisdom or virility and because pharaohs claim to derive their power from Amun and/or Osiris, both of whom were depicted as having these long braided beards. In WH it's probablt just tagged on as another royal status symbol, since most, if not all liche priests are of royal blood.
    Post edited by Abmong on
    Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Monkey kingdom DLC) :#
  • ihq47ihq47 Posts: 66Registered Users
    edited July 15
    Abmong said:

    I don't think there was a reason of it. GM just settled on the design to distinguish Necrotects from other types of TK units.

    Most of the other stuff are just bits and bobs thrown together to look psuedo ancient Egyptian. Has no real meaning except that it looks the part.

    Some things have echoes of the original Egyptian use. The upright Egyptian Cobra (aka Asp) was a Uraeus, a symbol of the goddesses Wadjet and worn by Egyptian royals. In Warhammer the Cobra is associated with the Goddess Asaph, The bigger the Cobra the more important the Tomb king/prince maybe.

    In WH liche priests also wear the Cobra symbol, more as a sign of protection/devotion to Asaph than indicator of royal status. Liche priests also wear a variety of psuedo Egyptian headdresses. For some reason though CA never made the ceremonial (psuedo Anubis) Jackle headdress for them, but the TT model had them.

    The fake beards are a bit of a mystery. Egyptologists aren't even sure why pharaohs (even female ones) wore them. My best guess is that it's a sign of wisdom or virility and because pharaohs claim to derive their power from Amun and/or Osiris, both of whom were depicted as having these long braided beards. In WH it's probablt just tagged on as another another royal status sybol, sine most if not all liche priests are of royal blood.

    Thank you! I've been tinkering with Tomb Kings officers from the All Faction Officers mod, and knowing the lore limits (or lack thereof, as the case seems to be) placed on the use of Necrotect hats and the beards calms my geek soul :smile:
  • OgrechubbsOgrechubbs Posts: 92Registered Users
    Most things in egypt " and old days" where BIG because big means rich. So it is fashion bitches. lol
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,484Registered Users
    I've never really paid this much attention before, but I took a closer look, and it's pretty clear that the Necrotect headgear in TWWH is shaped like the back end of a scorpion. On the tabletop they had several more variants available to them, so specific ritual significance shouldn't be assumed too deeply (Games Workshop is very much visual appeal first, lore second).

    HOWEVER, there can be an argument for some deeper significance: the Necrotects were Nehekhara's main architects. While they were most known today for building the war-constructs, back in the day they were perhaps more important for constructing the huge pyramids and tomb complexes that gave the Tomb Kings their name.

    The god associated with scorpions, Sokth, is actually the god of thieves and poisoners - however, his lore states that he is opposed to the robbing of royal graves, and so he and his favored animals, the scorpions, can often be found standing guard over them.

    Additionally, one of the Nehekharan war-constructs is the Tomb Scorpion, an interred lower noble/functionary whose sarcophagus is contained in the shape of an animated scorpion statue. This construct is used frequently as a tomb guardian as well.

    So here is my (very much inferred) explanation: the scorpion-shaped hat indicated a kinship with or patronage of Sokth, specifically in his aspect as the guardian of royal tombs and crypts.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Posts: 1,733Registered Users
    In Nehekaran culture, you can pretty much surmise, that the more ornate and splendous you are, the more important you are.
  • AbmongAbmong Posts: 934Registered Users
    ihq47 said:

    Abmong said:

    I don't think there was a reason of it. GM just settled on the design to distinguish Necrotects from other types of TK units.

    Most of the other stuff are just bits and bobs thrown together to look psuedo ancient Egyptian. Has no real meaning except that it looks the part.

    Some things have echoes of the original Egyptian use. The upright Egyptian Cobra (aka Asp) was a Uraeus, a symbol of the goddesses Wadjet and worn by Egyptian royals. In Warhammer the Cobra is associated with the Goddess Asaph, The bigger the Cobra the more important the Tomb king/prince maybe.

    In WH liche priests also wear the Cobra symbol, more as a sign of protection/devotion to Asaph than indicator of royal status. Liche priests also wear a variety of psuedo Egyptian headdresses. For some reason though CA never made the ceremonial (psuedo Anubis) Jackle headdress for them, but the TT model had them.

    The fake beards are a bit of a mystery. Egyptologists aren't even sure why pharaohs (even female ones) wore them. My best guess is that it's a sign of wisdom or virility and because pharaohs claim to derive their power from Amun and/or Osiris, both of whom were depicted as having these long braided beards. In WH it's probablt just tagged on as another another royal status sybol, sine most if not all liche priests are of royal blood.

    Thank you! I've been tinkering with Tomb Kings officers from the All Faction Officers mod, and knowing the lore limits (or lack thereof, as the case seems to be) placed on the use of Necrotect hats and the beards calms my geek soul :smile:
    Your among friends. I can probably safely say we're all geeks here. Some more than others... I'm of the more variety. Love reading about ancient and medieval cultures. mythologies and religions for their fantasy story values... (no offence meant to anyone who's actually religious). And military history. Oh and Sci-fi, comon TW:40K...
    Total War: Warhammer IV - Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh (+ Lost Vampire Bloodlines, Monkey kingdom DLC) :#
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    Does Tomb King headwear need to be something other than fashionable to be significant?

    Fools! Setra does not walk! HE STRUTS!
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users

    In Nehekaran culture, you can pretty much surmise, that the more ornate and splendous you are, the more important you are.

    That leads to the ridiculous Nagash model of the End Times...
  • ihq47ihq47 Posts: 66Registered Users
    Thank you for the additional answers!

    I've never really paid this much attention before, but I took a closer look, and it's pretty clear that the Necrotect headgear in TWWH is shaped like the back end of a scorpion. On the tabletop they had several more variants available to them, so specific ritual significance shouldn't be assumed too deeply (Games Workshop is very much visual appeal first, lore second).

    HOWEVER, there can be an argument for some deeper significance: the Necrotects were Nehekhara's main architects. While they were most known today for building the war-constructs, back in the day they were perhaps more important for constructing the huge pyramids and tomb complexes that gave the Tomb Kings their name.

    The god associated with scorpions, Sokth, is actually the god of thieves and poisoners - however, his lore states that he is opposed to the robbing of royal graves, and so he and his favored animals, the scorpions, can often be found standing guard over them.

    Additionally, one of the Nehekharan war-constructs is the Tomb Scorpion, an interred lower noble/functionary whose sarcophagus is contained in the shape of an animated scorpion statue. This construct is used frequently as a tomb guardian as well.

    So here is my (very much inferred) explanation: the scorpion-shaped hat indicated a kinship with or patronage of Sokth, specifically in his aspect as the guardian of royal tombs and crypts.

    This is great news for me, it fits perfectly with what I was intending to do :smiley: Do you mind if I use your inferred argument on the mod page once I finish the thing and upload it?
  • FloppingerFloppinger Posts: 332Registered Users
    I think the necrotects hats are inspired by the Hedjet, the white crown of Upper Egypt.


    There was also the Deshret, the red crown of Lower Egypt.


    And finally the Pschent, the double crown, a combination of Hedjet and Deshret to symbolise the pharaohs power over all of Egypt.


    In terms of Warhammer Lore I don´t think there´s much to it. Just a big hat for an important person. Not as important as the tomb kings and princes, but important nonetheless.


  • ihq47ihq47 Posts: 66Registered Users

    I think the necrotects hats are inspired by the Hedjet, the white crown of Upper Egypt.


    There was also the Deshret, the red crown of Lower Egypt.


    And finally the Pschent, the double crown, a combination of Hedjet and Deshret to symbolise the pharaohs power over all of Egypt.


    In terms of Warhammer Lore I don´t think there´s much to it. Just a big hat for an important person. Not as important as the tomb kings and princes, but important nonetheless.


    Interesting, thanks for sharing! I love this kind of symbology stuff, especially when people have put two symbols together as they did with the crowns.
  • ihq47ihq47 Posts: 66Registered Users
    Finished and uploaded the mod yesterday, you can see the Tomb Guard officer model I went with among the pictures: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1808648615

    Thanks again for all your help!
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